***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I like Slay a lot, had him as my Rd 3 pick in my most recent mock... might have moved himself into Rd 2, or atleast the Top 75.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    That 4.61 from Banks is pretty disappointing... not sure I'm still on board with him as a Rd 1 option at this point.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    40's are nice to know with CB's but how often do they actually turn and run completely down the field with a WR? I'm more interested in their redirection ability and backpedal honestly. They could run a 4.20 but if they can't turn and backpedal they are useless on the field



    I do not disagree. I do think, however, that the changes to how the game is played now and how other teams are attacking the Pats D, I believe the 40 time is becoming more important. You can argue that burst on the first 10-15 yards is more important. I agree completely. Agility? Sure. 

    This is all opinion and personal preference: If you are defending Welker, then fine - excellent agility and average speed will do. If you are defending the taller faster receivers on the good teams, I'd rather have slightly above average agility and excellent speed/quickness.

    I just think that if we want DBs to cover receivers tighter, it is necessary for them to have the speed that will allow them to recover on double moves. Else, they will have no choice but keep playing the soft, keep everyone in front, zones, that I personally am tired of. I am not saying they should never play zone. I am just saying they need agile guys who can run faster.

    On Slay: NFL Network superimposed the 40s of Miliner, Trufant and Slay. Slay was a full stride ahead of the other two at the 20 yard point. 

    I did not see much of the other drills. That said, I included Slay on my list a couple of weeks ago because on youtube at least, he showed very good agility and quickness on the field - IMHO better than Banks (whose only advantage IMO is his height). He can cover. I believe, Mayock mentioned that Slay continued to look better than Banks on the agility drills today. 

    I also think Slay fights well for the ball. Cool name too.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Below is a full list of official 40 times for the DB's:

     

    Darius Slay          4.36

    Dee Milliner       4.37

    Desmond Trufant            4.38

    Robert Alford    4.39

    Jamar Taylor       4.39

    Brandon McGee               4.4

    Sanders Commings         4.41

    Kayvon Webster              4.41

    Rod Sweeting    4.42

    Shamarko Thomas           4.42

    Steve Williams   4.42

    Xavier Rhodes   4.43

    David Amerson4.44

    Terry Hawthorne             4.44

    Earl Wolff            4.44

    Shawn Williams4.46

    Dwayne Gratz   4.47

    Johnny Adams  4.48

    Tyrann Mathieu                4.5

    Will Davis             4.51

    Tharold Simon   4.51

    B.W. Webb         4.51

    Eric Reid               4.53

    Nickell Robey     4.53

    Khalid Wooten  4.53

    Blidi Wreh-Wilson            4.53

    Matt Elam           4.54

    Keelan Johnson                4.54

    Demetrius Mccray           4.54

    Leon McFadden               4.54

    Jordan Poyer     4.54

    Mike Edwards   4.56

    Micah Hyde        4.56

    Logan Ryan         4.56

    Daxton Swanson    4.56

    J.J. Wilcox            4.57

    Adrian Bushell   4.58

    Josh Evans          4.58

    T.J. McDonald    4.59

    Johnthan Banks                4.61

    Aaron Hester     4.62

    Rontez Miles      4.62

    Marc Anthony   4.63

    Kenny Vaccaro  4.63

    Jawanza Starling               4.64

    Josh Johnson     4.65

    Phillip Thomas   4.65

    Robert Lester    4.66

    D.J. Swearinger4.67

    Daimion Stafford              4.69

    Bradley McDougald         4.74

    Tony Jefferson  4.75

    Zeke Motta        4.83

    Duke Williams    --

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    40's are nice to know with CB's but how often do they actually turn and run completely down the field with a WR? I'm more interested in their redirection ability and backpedal honestly. They could run a 4.20 but if they can't turn and backpedal they are useless on the field

     



    I do not disagree. I do think, however, that the changes to how the game is played now and how other teams are attacking the Pats D, I believe the 40 time is becoming more important. You can argue that burst on the first 10-15 yards is more important. I agree completely. Agility? Sure. 

     

    This is all opinion and personal preference: If you are defending Welker, then fine - excellent agility and average speed will do. If you are defending the taller faster receivers on the good teams, I'd rather have slightly above average agility and excellent speed/quickness.

    I just think that if we want DBs to cover receivers tighter, it is necessary for them to have the speed that will allow them to recover on double moves. Else, they will have no choice but keep playing the soft, keep everyone in front, zones, that I personally am tired of. I am not saying they should never play zone. I am just saying they need agile guys who can run faster.

    On Slay: NFL Network superimposed the 40s of Miliner, Trufant and Slay. Slay was a full stride ahead of the other two at the 20 yard point. 

    I did not see much of the other drills. That said, I included Slay on my list a couple of weeks ago because on youtube at least, he showed very good agility and quickness on the field - IMHO better than Banks (whose only advantage IMO is his height). He can cover. I believe, Mayock mentioned that Slay continued to look better than Banks on the agility drills today. 

    I also think Slay fights well for the ball. Cool name too.



    "I just think that if we want DBs to cover receivers tighter, it is necessary for them to have the speed that will allow them to recover on double moves. Else, they will have no choice but keep playing the soft, keep everyone in front, zones, that I personally am tired of."

    here here!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Hunt is an athletic specimen. Question always has been with him is his rawness. 

    I tell you what...I went back and watched some highlights of the hawaii bowl, and he had an amazing performance. 

    I am starting to rethink where we might go early in this draft...I know we need help on the inside of the line, but premium pass rushers at the de spot might be more critical assuming we could get a bigger kid inside later, and put our eggs in the love, armstead, Pryor, bucket for the interior of the line. I would love to have a line with 2 guys at 6'5"+, 270+ on the outside, and 6'3"+, 310+ on the inside...

    ansah, hunt / Pryor, love / vw / jones. 

    Question is what do you do with nink, Francis, bequette, Scott, Cunningham? Seems like we have a lot of depth there but other than nink who is a decent starter, lots of potential but no game changers.




     

    hey lifer

    re:

    " premium pass rushers at the de spot might be more critical assuming we could get a bigger kid inside later,"

    this has been my clraion call since the beginning and if we got ansah and hunt i wont know what to do with myself.

    put hunt in the power lifting room to work on his lower body and teach him how to use his legs better and you wont stop that kid. hes a moose.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    40's are nice to know with CB's but how often do they actually turn and run completely down the field with a WR? I'm more interested in their redirection ability and backpedal honestly. They could run a 4.20 but if they can't turn and backpedal they are useless on the field

     



    those few plays CB's do have to turn and run with WR's are the most important. you don't want a guy who stops a couple short passes and then gets burned for a deep TD. that's the difference b/w a #1 CB and a #2 or slot guy.

     




    That's why we have safeties. I'm not saying I don't want fast CB's who can keep up with quicker WR's but I mean if we are talking a 4.45 CB with better recovery and CoD ability or a 4.34 CB with bad hips and can't backpedal I'd take the 4.45 guy every time. Otherwise what good is the 4.34 guy if all you have to do is run a post with a double move? 3 30+ passes that takes more time of the board resulting in a TD is worse then 1 90+yrd pass that takes no time off the board. Now if we are talking a 4.6 CB yes I'd say you were correct 4.6 does make a difference but then again how many 4.6 guys do you know that also post great cone numbers?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    great example:

     

    Will Davis - 4.51 40   6.52 cone

    Darius Slay - 4.36 40  6.90 cone

     

    What good is that 4.36 if all you have to do is change of direction on a move to gain separation on a timed route? You gain separation quickly and Slay will most likely catch up and tackle you but after a large gain

    Davis though a bit slower and might lose a fast guy on straight routes can still play underneath coverage and keep it pretty tight (don't forget pads mimize that 40 gap) while you can have S help over top

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    40's are nice to know with CB's but how often do they actually turn and run completely down the field with a WR? I'm more interested in their redirection ability and backpedal honestly. They could run a 4.20 but if they can't turn and backpedal they are useless on the field

     



    those few plays CB's do have to turn and run with WR's are the most important. you don't want a guy who stops a couple short passes and then gets burned for a deep TD. that's the difference b/w a #1 CB and a #2 or slot guy.

     

     




    That's why we have safeties. I'm not saying I don't want fast CB's who can keep up with quicker WR's but I mean if we are talking a 4.45 CB with better recovery and CoD ability or a 4.34 CB with bad hips and can't backpedal I'd take the 4.45 guy every time. Otherwise what good is the 4.34 guy if all you have to do is run a post with a double move? 3 30+ passes that takes more time of the board resulting in a TD is worse then 1 90+yrd pass that takes no time off the board. Now if we are talking a 4.6 CB yes I'd say you were correct 4.6 does make a difference but then again how many 4.6 guys do you know that also post great cone numbers?

     

     



    i was just responding to your original premise which sounded like you felt 40 times for CB's aren't that important. 4.45 is a solid 40 for a CB, they don't need to be in the 4.3's. 

     

    it depends on where you are drafting and what your Dscheme is. most teams don't run ABC defenses and always have two deep safties. there are times you have to rely on single man-to-man coverage on the outside. if you can't depend on your guy to not get beat deep then you will be looking for replacements in no time. doesn't matter how good his COD is, he will be moved to the slot and replaced by a faster guy.

    if you are taking a CB in round one then you want a guy with a well rounded skill set. fluid hips, good COD AND a good 40 because in round 1 you are looking for guys with #1 CB potential. 




    Oh I agree but I was just thinking NE coverage schemes which they always have 1 S over top. It's extremely rare that I don't see a S over top in NE's setups. So I should have clearified that Within reasonable times 40's times shouldn't be a determining factor for NE's style of secondary play.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

     

     

    1st round –Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah if not available trade for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks

    2nd round (from trade) - Jonathan Hankins, DT, the OSU

    2nd round -  Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    3rd Round -
    Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee tech
    4th round (from trade)- Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina or josh boyce WR TCU

    5th round(from trade) –Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU or braden Brown, OT/TE, BYU
    7th Round - Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-       Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford or

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico

    Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Faulkner University

    Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

    Luke Marquardt, OT, Azusa Pacific

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.


    I'd like Boldin but that's not really a big name FA. Truthfully I might be happier with Nelson. If his knee is healty I think Nelson would be a young faster version of Boldin

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.

     



    I'd rather go after Jennings (That is without knowing what last years injury was or his current health) ...but on talent, yep.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.

     


    I'd like Boldin but that's not really a big name FA. Truthfully I might be happier with Nelson. If his knee is healty I think Nelson would be a young faster version of Boldin

     



    Nelson would be good. I just don't think of him as big name. I wouldn't mine swapping Lloyd for Nelson. You money guys would know this... Is Nelson likely to be cheaper than Lloyd?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.

     


    I'd like Boldin but that's not really a big name FA. Truthfully I might be happier with Nelson. If his knee is healty I think Nelson would be a young faster version of Boldin

     

     



    Nelson would be good. I just don't think of him as big name. I wouldn't mine swapping Lloyd for Nelson. You money guys would know this... Is Nelson likely to be cheaper than Lloyd?

     



    could be about the same price in the end. Lloyd would save about $3mil this year if cut and Nelson shoul be about that per year, given lack of experience and knee surgery last year.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     



    his cap hit is $4.5mil but his signing bonus was $7.5mil over 3 years so depending when cut it could cost the team 500k for this year and save 5 mil next year or save them 2mil this year and 3mil next year 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to natesubs' comment:

     

     

    1st round –Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah if not available trade for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks

    2nd round (from trade) - Jonathan Hankins, DT, the OSU

    2nd round -  Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    3rd Round -
    Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee tech
    4th round (from trade)- Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina or josh boyce WR TCU

    5th round(from trade) –Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU or braden Brown, OT/TE, BYU
    7th Round - Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-       Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford or

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico

    Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Faulkner University

    Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

    Luke Marquardt, OT, Azusa Pacific



    thats a lot of talent (and maybe 2 dreams, not one :)

    make it so..

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moskk. Show moskk's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to natesubs' comment:

     

     

     

    1st round –Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah if not available trade for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks

    2nd round (from trade) - Jonathan Hankins, DT, the OSU

    2nd round -  Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    3rd Round -
    Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee tech
    4th round (from trade)- Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina or josh boyce WR TCU

    5th round(from trade) –Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU or braden Brown, OT/TE, BYU
    7th Round - Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-       Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford or

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico

    Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Faulkner University

    Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

    Luke Marquardt, OT, Azusa Pacific

     



    Considering how well he played in college and on the basis of what I saw today there is no way TYRANN MATHIEU will last past the third round.  That despite his past Hx with drugs and reputed lazy commitment to working out. Granted he lacks size but he's so athletic and fluid with great instincts. Recognition skills promote speed to the ball and it's evident he has that in spades.

     

    What a waste of talent!  If only the right surroundings and mature  teammate associations could redirect his focus strictly  on football we could have a gem...

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to moskk's comment:

    In response to natesubs' comment:

     

     

     

    1st round –Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah if not available trade for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks

    2nd round (from trade) - Jonathan Hankins, DT, the OSU

    2nd round -  Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    3rd Round -
    Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee tech
    4th round (from trade)- Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina or josh boyce WR TCU

    5th round(from trade) –Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU or braden Brown, OT/TE, BYU
    7th Round - Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-       Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford or

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico

    Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Faulkner University

    Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

    Luke Marquardt, OT, Azusa Pacific

     



    Considering how well he played in college and on the basis of what I saw today there is no way TYRANN MATHIEU will last past the third round.  That despite his past Hx with drugs and reputed lazy commitment to working out. Granted he lacks size but he's so athletic and fluid with great instincts. Recognition skills promote speed to the ball and it's evident he has that in spades.

     

    What a waste of talent!  If only the right surroundings and mature  teammate associations could redirect his focus strictly  on football we could have a gem...



    "Considering how well he played in college and on the basis of what I saw today there is no way TYRANN MATHIEU will last past the third round."

    i said a few months ago he might go in the 2nd. 3rd rd sounds about right for some team reaching. 

    if we got him in 7th that wouldnt be a bad thing. especialy if there is soemthing to this demps story

     
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