***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    great example:

     

    Will Davis - 4.51 40   6.52 cone

    Darius Slay - 4.36 40  6.90 cone

     

    What good is that 4.36 if all you have to do is change of direction on a move to gain separation on a timed route? You gain separation quickly and Slay will most likely catch up and tackle you but after a large gain

    Davis though a bit slower and might lose a fast guy on straight routes can still play underneath coverage and keep it pretty tight (don't forget pads mimize that 40 gap) while you can have S help over top

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    40's are nice to know with CB's but how often do they actually turn and run completely down the field with a WR? I'm more interested in their redirection ability and backpedal honestly. They could run a 4.20 but if they can't turn and backpedal they are useless on the field

     



    those few plays CB's do have to turn and run with WR's are the most important. you don't want a guy who stops a couple short passes and then gets burned for a deep TD. that's the difference b/w a #1 CB and a #2 or slot guy.

     

     




    That's why we have safeties. I'm not saying I don't want fast CB's who can keep up with quicker WR's but I mean if we are talking a 4.45 CB with better recovery and CoD ability or a 4.34 CB with bad hips and can't backpedal I'd take the 4.45 guy every time. Otherwise what good is the 4.34 guy if all you have to do is run a post with a double move? 3 30+ passes that takes more time of the board resulting in a TD is worse then 1 90+yrd pass that takes no time off the board. Now if we are talking a 4.6 CB yes I'd say you were correct 4.6 does make a difference but then again how many 4.6 guys do you know that also post great cone numbers?

     

     



    i was just responding to your original premise which sounded like you felt 40 times for CB's aren't that important. 4.45 is a solid 40 for a CB, they don't need to be in the 4.3's. 

     

    it depends on where you are drafting and what your Dscheme is. most teams don't run ABC defenses and always have two deep safties. there are times you have to rely on single man-to-man coverage on the outside. if you can't depend on your guy to not get beat deep then you will be looking for replacements in no time. doesn't matter how good his COD is, he will be moved to the slot and replaced by a faster guy.

    if you are taking a CB in round one then you want a guy with a well rounded skill set. fluid hips, good COD AND a good 40 because in round 1 you are looking for guys with #1 CB potential. 




    Oh I agree but I was just thinking NE coverage schemes which they always have 1 S over top. It's extremely rare that I don't see a S over top in NE's setups. So I should have clearified that Within reasonable times 40's times shouldn't be a determining factor for NE's style of secondary play.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

     

     

    1st round –Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah if not available trade for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks

    2nd round (from trade) - Jonathan Hankins, DT, the OSU

    2nd round -  Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    3rd Round -
    Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee tech
    4th round (from trade)- Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina or josh boyce WR TCU

    5th round(from trade) –Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU or braden Brown, OT/TE, BYU
    7th Round - Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-       Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford or

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico

    Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Faulkner University

    Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

    Luke Marquardt, OT, Azusa Pacific

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.


    I'd like Boldin but that's not really a big name FA. Truthfully I might be happier with Nelson. If his knee is healty I think Nelson would be a young faster version of Boldin

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.

     



    I'd rather go after Jennings (That is without knowing what last years injury was or his current health) ...but on talent, yep.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.

     


    I'd like Boldin but that's not really a big name FA. Truthfully I might be happier with Nelson. If his knee is healty I think Nelson would be a young faster version of Boldin

     



    Nelson would be good. I just don't think of him as big name. I wouldn't mine swapping Lloyd for Nelson. You money guys would know this... Is Nelson likely to be cheaper than Lloyd?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Did you guys hear that Brady was extended out through 2017 freeing up a ton of cap that supposedly is going to be used to sign Welker to a front loaded $40MM, 5 year deal?  Also in the story was the idea we are going after a big name F/A WR.  I'm thinking Bolden if he ends up being a cap cut.

     


    I'd like Boldin but that's not really a big name FA. Truthfully I might be happier with Nelson. If his knee is healty I think Nelson would be a young faster version of Boldin

     

     



    Nelson would be good. I just don't think of him as big name. I wouldn't mine swapping Lloyd for Nelson. You money guys would know this... Is Nelson likely to be cheaper than Lloyd?

     



    could be about the same price in the end. Lloyd would save about $3mil this year if cut and Nelson shoul be about that per year, given lack of experience and knee surgery last year.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     



    his cap hit is $4.5mil but his signing bonus was $7.5mil over 3 years so depending when cut it could cost the team 500k for this year and save 5 mil next year or save them 2mil this year and 3mil next year 

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to natesubs' comment:

     

     

    1st round –Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah if not available trade for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks

    2nd round (from trade) - Jonathan Hankins, DT, the OSU

    2nd round -  Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    3rd Round -
    Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee tech
    4th round (from trade)- Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina or josh boyce WR TCU

    5th round(from trade) –Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU or braden Brown, OT/TE, BYU
    7th Round - Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-       Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford or

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico

    Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Faulkner University

    Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

    Luke Marquardt, OT, Azusa Pacific



    thats a lot of talent (and maybe 2 dreams, not one :)

    make it so..

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moskk. Show moskk's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to natesubs' comment:

     

     

     

    1st round –Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah if not available trade for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks

    2nd round (from trade) - Jonathan Hankins, DT, the OSU

    2nd round -  Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    3rd Round -
    Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee tech
    4th round (from trade)- Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina or josh boyce WR TCU

    5th round(from trade) –Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU or braden Brown, OT/TE, BYU
    7th Round - Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-       Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford or

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico

    Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Faulkner University

    Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

    Luke Marquardt, OT, Azusa Pacific

     



    Considering how well he played in college and on the basis of what I saw today there is no way TYRANN MATHIEU will last past the third round.  That despite his past Hx with drugs and reputed lazy commitment to working out. Granted he lacks size but he's so athletic and fluid with great instincts. Recognition skills promote speed to the ball and it's evident he has that in spades.

     

    What a waste of talent!  If only the right surroundings and mature  teammate associations could redirect his focus strictly  on football we could have a gem...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to moskk's comment:

    In response to natesubs' comment:

     

     

     

    1st round –Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah if not available trade for 2nd, 4th and 5th round picks

    2nd round (from trade) - Jonathan Hankins, DT, the OSU

    2nd round -  Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    3rd Round -
    Da’Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee tech
    4th round (from trade)- Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina or josh boyce WR TCU

    5th round(from trade) –Tyrann Mathieu*, CB/S, LSU

    7th round - Braden Hansen, G, BYU or braden Brown, OT/TE, BYU
    7th Round - Jake stoneburner, TE, OSU

    UDFA-       Graham Pocic, C, Illinois

    Levine Toilolo, TE, Stanford or

    Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico

    Ray Ray Armstrong, S, Faulkner University

    Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

    Luke Marquardt, OT, Azusa Pacific

     



    Considering how well he played in college and on the basis of what I saw today there is no way TYRANN MATHIEU will last past the third round.  That despite his past Hx with drugs and reputed lazy commitment to working out. Granted he lacks size but he's so athletic and fluid with great instincts. Recognition skills promote speed to the ball and it's evident he has that in spades.

     

    What a waste of talent!  If only the right surroundings and mature  teammate associations could redirect his focus strictly  on football we could have a gem...



    "Considering how well he played in college and on the basis of what I saw today there is no way TYRANN MATHIEU will last past the third round."

    i said a few months ago he might go in the 2nd. 3rd rd sounds about right for some team reaching. 

    if we got him in 7th that wouldnt be a bad thing. especialy if there is soemthing to this demps story

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    RB Kniles Davis at 5-10 227 ran a 4.37 40 with 31 bench reps.. guy could be a star



    Had a monster soph season (204-1322-13), but hasn't been the same player since his knee injury (112-377-2 this season), though Arkansas as a whole was a mess this year... could provide a good upside/value pick for some team on Day 3, IMO.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     



    his cap hit is $4.5mil but his signing bonus was $7.5mil over 3 years so depending when cut it could cost the team 500k for this year and save 5 mil next year or save them 2mil this year and 3mil next year 

     




    $2MM in dead cap space spread out over 2 years according to Bedard.  Still cutting Lloyd really puts us in a bind with ZERO wideouts.  I expect Welker to be extended as I think this was a key reason Brady agreed to restructure.  I also expect Edelman to be back and for us to sign another top flight WR, such as Boldin, Nelson or Jennings.  We might even make a play for Wallace to keep the Dolphins from getting him athough I doubt we would enter a bidding war.

    I would not be shocked if this is the year we finally draft a WR in the first round and perhaps again in the 3rd depending what we do with Lloyd and in free agency.  BB has been doubling down on need lately; Gronk/Hernandez and Vereen/Ridley.  WR is a position of a lot of age so a youth movement makes sense also.  With just three premium picks it would be hard to take two WRs especially with so many questions at corner but if Denard avoids jail time and we resign Talib, we could be set there.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     



    his cap hit is $4.5mil but his signing bonus was $7.5mil over 3 years so depending when cut it could cost the team 500k for this year and save 5 mil next year or save them 2mil this year and 3mil next year 

     

     




    $2MM in dead cap space spread out over 2 years according to Bedard.  Still cutting Lloyd really puts us in a bind with ZERO wideouts.  I expect Welker to be extended as I think this was a key reason Brady agreed to restructure.  I also expect Edelman to be back and for us to sign another top flight WR, such as Boldin, Nelson or Jennings.  We might even make a play for Wallace to keep the Dolphins from getting him athough I doubt we would enter a bidding war.

     

    I would not be shocked if this is the year we finally draft a WR in the first round and perhaps again in the 3rd depending what we do with Lloyd and in free agency.  BB has been doubling down on need lately; Gronk/Hernandez and Vereen/Ridley.  WR is a position of a lot of age so a youth movement makes sense also.  With just three premium picks it would be hard to take two WRs especially with so many questions at corner but if Denard avoids jail time and we resign Talib, we could be set there.



    You're right. I was looking at bonuses as a whole not the signing bonuses. That makes it even better then, but it wouldn't be spread out unless he is cut during camp. He has 2mil remaining on the signing bonus so if cut before camp that 2mil is counted all this year if cut after training then it's spread over the two seasons but then he gets his optional bonus of 3mil. So it looks like they will either cut him and save 2.5mil this year or they will keep him because the optional bonus would end up adding 3mil to the bonus over the 2 years

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     



    his cap hit is $4.5mil but his signing bonus was $7.5mil over 3 years so depending when cut it could cost the team 500k for this year and save 5 mil next year or save them 2mil this year and 3mil next year 

     

     




    $2MM in dead cap space spread out over 2 years according to Bedard.  Still cutting Lloyd really puts us in a bind with ZERO wideouts.  I expect Welker to be extended as I think this was a key reason Brady agreed to restructure.  I also expect Edelman to be back and for us to sign another top flight WR, such as Boldin, Nelson or Jennings.  We might even make a play for Wallace to keep the Dolphins from getting him athough I doubt we would enter a bidding war.

     

    I would not be shocked if this is the year we finally draft a WR in the first round and perhaps again in the 3rd depending what we do with Lloyd and in free agency.  BB has been doubling down on need lately; Gronk/Hernandez and Vereen/Ridley.  WR is a position of a lot of age so a youth movement makes sense also.  With just three premium picks it would be hard to take two WRs especially with so many questions at corner but if Denard avoids jail time and we resign Talib, we could be set there.



    hopkins, rogers? (1st and 3rd)

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    If the Pats were going to take a run at Bowe they would sure have plently of close up eyes and opinions to ask before doing so.

    Cassel

    Pioli

    Daboll

    Crennel

    Weis

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     



    his cap hit is $4.5mil but his signing bonus was $7.5mil over 3 years so depending when cut it could cost the team 500k for this year and save 5 mil next year or save them 2mil this year and 3mil next year 

     

     




    $2MM in dead cap space spread out over 2 years according to Bedard.  Still cutting Lloyd really puts us in a bind with ZERO wideouts.  I expect Welker to be extended as I think this was a key reason Brady agreed to restructure.  I also expect Edelman to be back and for us to sign another top flight WR, such as Boldin, Nelson or Jennings.  We might even make a play for Wallace to keep the Dolphins from getting him athough I doubt we would enter a bidding war.

     

    I would not be shocked if this is the year we finally draft a WR in the first round and perhaps again in the 3rd depending what we do with Lloyd and in free agency.  BB has been doubling down on need lately; Gronk/Hernandez and Vereen/Ridley.  WR is a position of a lot of age so a youth movement makes sense also.  With just three premium picks it would be hard to take two WRs especially with so many questions at corner but if Denard avoids jail time and we resign Talib, we could be set there.

     



    You're right. I was looking at bonuses as a whole not the signing bonuses. That makes it even better then, but it wouldn't be spread out unless he is cut during camp. He has 2mil remaining on the signing bonus so if cut before camp that 2mil is counted all this year if cut after training then it's spread over the two seasons but then he gets his optional bonus of 3mil. So it looks like they will either cut him and save 2.5mil this year or they will keep him because the optional bonus would end up adding 3mil to the bonus over the 2 years

     




    I'm hearing they will cut him because he was a headcase in the locker room.  It wasn't reported but that's the buzz. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     



    I'm hearing they will cut him because he was a headcase in the locker room.  It wasn't reported but that's the buzz. 

     



    Yeah I was thinking they'd keep him because a 4.5mil cap hit on a 75rec 1000yrd WR isn't bad but after hearing the locker room stuff I want him gone. Spend that 2.5mil savings on David Nelson and lets be happy Brady doesn't have to thread the needle everytime. 

    BTW appearently the Pats don't have Lloyd listed on the projected depth chart

     

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