***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I love the combine reads. I'm thinking Hunt might have shot up the board a bit for me. Maybe we see a double drafting on the line. Hunt in the 1st and J Williams with a trade early/mid 2nd. How about that for fixing the front 7. Then it comes to the secndary. Get a SS in FA, get a starting caliber CB in FA, hope Dennard does get long time and draft a slot CB in the 3rd



    that covers things ive wanted to do but leaves off teh big wr i want in the draft,

    now i'll take it in rd 3 or id even take it over the dt in rd 2.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Sup boys, been reading from a far work has been crazy but finally getting a chance to start getting into it.  Glad to be back!  Trying to get caught up but you guys have been busy! lol

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    What's the consensus on Shawn Williams? S Georgia

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Pats7393's comment:

    What's the consensus on Shawn Williams? S Georgia



    I don't speak for every but my take:

    Good player with nice explosion, well developed one on one moves, can be disruptive in both the run and passing game.

    The issues I see with him is that he can have blinders on when forcing on pass rush which prevents him seeing easy gaps, the QB rolling out, draws, and screens. He's very inconsistent with his plays being dominant at points then being dominated at others by mediocre talent. Very good motor but conditioning was fairly poor and can wear down quickly. Can get lost in doubles.

    Should be a late 1st early 2nd round talent but I don't think he has a very high ceiling like J. Williams and doesn't have the consistent play regardless of situation like a Hankins or Jenkins.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    HI PE, had to ask.  He's a Georgia boy, seen him play a bit.  He's a bit inconsistent but he wasn't targeted much this season.  I like the kid, think he has the range to play either position but as with all Pats DB draftees can the coaching staff improve them make them worse with time

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Pats7393's comment:

    HI PE, had to ask.  He's a Georgia boy, seen him play a bit.  He's a bit inconsistent but he wasn't targeted much this season.  I like the kid, think he has the range to play either position but as with all Pats DB draftees can the coaching staff improve them make them worse with time



    I was thinking of the wrong player my bad  >.<

    I had the DT S. Williams on the brain. The DB Williams I don't know a lot about sorry about the confusion

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    MB, there's no tape, but Patton had only 4 catches for 34 vs DJ Hayden's Houston Cougars. Hayden had 1 pass breakup, 1 TFL, and 10 total tackles. looks like Hayden will be cleared to play again and his pro day is March 18. i think you hit the nail on the head with your 2nd round grade on him. if he were able to play a full season injury free we may even be talking 1st round right now. he looks like a stud on film. honestly, based on the film that is available of Hayden i would have to say he is my #1 CB if healthy. he looks like a man among boys.



    Thanks for the feedback man... yeah, started watching/researching him one day and was pretty excited at what I saw... very good all around player, decent size, moves well, scheme diverse, very good in coverage, phsyical and tackles well... plays the game like it means something to him... agree that he could've been in the Rd 1 discussion if not for the injury... kid is way under the radar right now and could be an excellent value for someone... would love to land him in Rd 2.  Good news on his clearance!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Pats7393's comment:

    Sup boys, been reading from a far work has been crazy but finally getting a chance to start getting into it.  Glad to be back!  Trying to get caught up but you guys have been busy! lol




    Ho-ly sh!t... welcome back, man!

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Pats7393's comment:

    What's the consensus on Shawn Williams? S Georgia




    I like Williams, have had him on my board for quite a while... 6-0 213, runs well, active, good COD and decent lateral agility... he's not the play maker that Rambo is, but is a much more physical player that tackles well and is better equipped to play down in the box than his teammate... while also showing the ability to man the deep half/third.  He also appears to have a passion for the game and called his team out last season... would add some toughness and physicality and can prob be had late Day 2, early Day 3.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bobbysu's comment:

    If Motta falls into 7th hope the Pats grab him. I like tall Safeties. Height makes up for Speed. He did OK on 3 cone drill. Quickness more important than straight line speed in football. Wish I knew how high he jumped. Kid is a thumper, maybe start on Special Teams, see how he progresses. At ND, kid was good sideline to sideline, like that, shows range, most important attribute for a Safety.




    I think he's Day 3, but prob more in the Rd 4-5 range (Rd 3 upside if he runs better at his Pro Day)... not fast in a straight line, but is instinctive with good play speed, did very well in his 3C (4th amongts all S) and SS (7th amongst all S)... he had a 35.5 inch vert.

    Def a thumper with some range that can impact on ST as you mention.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Hey all! Got a chance to watch some of the combine this past w/e. Was very impressed with the D-line class as well as the CB class. I think the offensive lineman were equally impressive but thats not as sexy to talk about and im not sure of our needs there yet until they make a move on Vollmer.

    Im sure this thread been going for a while. the rest of the board is infested with people and their agendas so I figured this thread would be civil.

    Havent seen some of you in a while and had no idea there were still regulars but I dont blame you for not dealing with other threads, its crazy now.

     

    What I wanted to see is if anyone has any particular "pats type" players they like so far and does anyone have a favorite at every position just so I can guage what kids may visit here as i put you alls knowledge above any national people because We Know our team so lets see it. I like a few of the safeties  I saw but not sure any of them are the full package yet and Im thinking F/A may be the better option to fill the SS position but def. think we can land a good CB. Looks to be a lot of athleticim and speed coming out.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     



    his cap hit is $4.5mil but his signing bonus was $7.5mil over 3 years so depending when cut it could cost the team 500k for this year and save 5 mil next year or save them 2mil this year and 3mil next year 

     

     




    $2MM in dead cap space spread out over 2 years according to Bedard.  Still cutting Lloyd really puts us in a bind with ZERO wideouts.  I expect Welker to be extended as I think this was a key reason Brady agreed to restructure.  I also expect Edelman to be back and for us to sign another top flight WR, such as Boldin, Nelson or Jennings.  We might even make a play for Wallace to keep the Dolphins from getting him athough I doubt we would enter a bidding war.

     

    I would not be shocked if this is the year we finally draft a WR in the first round and perhaps again in the 3rd depending what we do with Lloyd and in free agency.  BB has been doubling down on need lately; Gronk/Hernandez and Vereen/Ridley.  WR is a position of a lot of age so a youth movement makes sense also.  With just three premium picks it would be hard to take two WRs especially with so many questions at corner but if Denard avoids jail time and we resign Talib, we could be set there.

     



    hopkins, rogers? (1st and 3rd)

     

     




    Possibly.  I can't stop thinking about how good Tavon Austin would look in a Pat's uni.  Then come back with a Swope or Williams in the 2nd.  In reality both could be gone.

     

     



    No doubt that Austin is electric.

     

    Swope looks tailor made for NE's scheme... sneaky deep speed, has some suddenness/RAC ability, very good combo of hands and toughness and has good ball skills... willing/solid blocker...  really like this kid on Day 2.




    Do you think Swope would be available at the end of round 2 or did his combine performance move him up?  I originally was hoping end of round 3 but I don't see that now.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    NF Network speculating that Ed Reed could be coming to NE.  He may have one good year left.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    I heard Lloyd's cap hit was 4.9m if cut...

     



    his cap hit is $4.5mil but his signing bonus was $7.5mil over 3 years so depending when cut it could cost the team 500k for this year and save 5 mil next year or save them 2mil this year and 3mil next year 

     

     




    $2MM in dead cap space spread out over 2 years according to Bedard.  Still cutting Lloyd really puts us in a bind with ZERO wideouts.  I expect Welker to be extended as I think this was a key reason Brady agreed to restructure.  I also expect Edelman to be back and for us to sign another top flight WR, such as Boldin, Nelson or Jennings.  We might even make a play for Wallace to keep the Dolphins from getting him athough I doubt we would enter a bidding war.

     

    I would not be shocked if this is the year we finally draft a WR in the first round and perhaps again in the 3rd depending what we do with Lloyd and in free agency.  BB has been doubling down on need lately; Gronk/Hernandez and Vereen/Ridley.  WR is a position of a lot of age so a youth movement makes sense also.  With just three premium picks it would be hard to take two WRs especially with so many questions at corner but if Denard avoids jail time and we resign Talib, we could be set there.

     



    hopkins, rogers? (1st and 3rd)

     

     




    Possibly.  I can't stop thinking about how good Tavon Austin would look in a Pat's uni.  Then come back with a Swope or Williams in the 2nd.  In reality both could be gone.

     

     



    No doubt that Austin is electric.

     

    Swope looks tailor made for NE's scheme... sneaky deep speed, has some suddenness/RAC ability, very good combo of hands and toughness and has good ball skills... willing/solid blocker...  really like this kid on Day 2.

     




    Do you think Swope would be available at the end of round 2 or did his combine performance move him up?  I originally was hoping end of round 3 but I don't see that now.

     



    I think he will be, yes... prob of the board sometime within the Top 75-100, IMO.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Hey all! Got a chance to watch some of the combine this past w/e. Was very impressed with the D-line class as well as the CB class. I think the offensive lineman were equally impressive but thats not as sexy to talk about and im not sure of our needs there yet until they make a move on Vollmer.

    Im sure this thread been going for a while. the rest of the board is infested with people and their agendas so I figured this thread would be civil.

    Havent seen some of you in a while and had no idea there were still regulars but I dont blame you for not dealing with other threads, its crazy now.

     

    What I wanted to see is if anyone has any particular "pats type" players they like so far and does anyone have a favorite at every position just so I can guage what kids may visit here as i put you alls knowledge above any national people because We Know our team so lets see it. I like a few of the safeties  I saw but not sure any of them are the full package yet and Im thinking F/A may be the better option to fill the SS position but def. think we can land a good CB. Looks to be a lot of athleticim and speed coming out.



    Hey man, below are my Top 5's at each position for players that realistically have a shot at ending up in Foxobor:

    DT:

    1.       Jesse Williams- Alabama

    2.       John Hankins- Ohio State

    3.       Sylvester Williams- UNC

    4.       John Jenkins- Georgia

    5.       Josh Boyd- Miss State

     

    S:

    1.       Matt Elam- Florida

    2.       Jon Cyprien- FIU

    3.       DJ Swearinger- South Carolina

    4.       Josh Evans- Florida

    5.       Shawn Williams- Georgia

     

    OL:

    1.       Jon Cooper- UNC (OG/C)

    2.       Barrett Jones- Alabama (OG/C)

    3.       Brian Winters- Kent State (OG)

    4.       David QuessenBerry- San Jose State (OT/OG)

    5.       Brian Schwenke- Cal (OG/C) / Reid Fragel OSU (OT) / Jeff Baca (OG/C)

     

    WR:

    1.       DeAndre Hopkins- Clemson

    2.       Quinton Patton- LTU

    3.       Stedman Bailey- WVU

    4.       Ryan Swope- Tex A&M

    5.       Ace Sanders- South Carolina

     

    CB:

    1.       Logan Ryan- Rutgers

    2.       DJ Hayden- Houston

    3.       Darius Slay- Miss State

    4.       Jamar Taylor- Boise State

    5.       Jordan Poyer- Oregon State

     

    DE/OLB

    1.       Tank Carradine- FSU

    2.       Margus Hunt- SMU

    3.       Michael Buchanan- Illinois

    4.       Devin Taylor- South Carolina

    5.       Lavar Edwards- LSU

     

     

    LB:

    1.       Kiko Alonso- Oregon

    2.       Sio Moore- UConn

    3.       Nathan Williams- OSU

    4.       Zach Boren- OSU

    5.       John Bostic- Florida

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Talent tiers. I have seen it talked about as 1-5, 6-25, 26-71,etc. If those tiers are somewhat accurate that would leave them with 2 selections in the 3rd tier and the final selection of their top 3 falling to the fourth tier.

    What do you guys think the talent tier ranges break down into?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Talent tiers. I have seen it talked about as 1-5, 6-25, 26-71,etc. If those tiers are somewhat accurate that would leave them with 2 selections in the 3rd tier and the final selection of their top 3 falling to the fourth tier.

    What do you guys think the talent tier ranges break down into?



    I don't know if this answers your question, but I think with the depth in this draft that they could come away with (3) solid players or at least 2 starters.

    Below is what I'm hoping for:

    Rd 1- Jesse Williams/Tank Carradine

    Rd 2- (Pick your CB) Logan Ryan/DJ Hayden/Darius Slay/Jamar Taylor/Jordan Poyer

    Rd 3- (Pick your WR or S) Stedman Bailey/Ryan Swope/Ace Sanders/Markus Wheaton/Josh Boyce/Chris Harper/Marquis Goodwin or DJ Swearinger/Josh Evans/Shawn Williams/Shamarko Thomas

    Rd 7- WR TJ Moe or RB Spencer Ware or TE Jake Stoneburner, etc.

    Rd 7- S Cooper Taylor or LB Nathan Williams or S John Boyett

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Hey Faucet - We have Ballard who in a short stint with the Giants before injury showed great receiving ability and a good inline blocker. I think Ballard could be the player you are looking for so I would still look at D first given BB saw the future and stole Ballard from the Giants

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?



    I think they're hoping Ballard comes back and fills that #2 TE role.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Faucet...I agree with PatsEng on Eifert. I really like him as a player, but think the focus will be on defense or other positions of need the first few picks. Plus, I don't think he makes it to 29. I could see any number of teams grabbing him like Pitt or Atlanta for example. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    mB,

    i was surprised to see you call out carradine at 29.. You think Jhelum is a 1st round talent? Do you rank him above Hunt and Okafor?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    mB,

    i was surprised to see you call out carradine at 29.. You think Jhelum is a 1st round talent? Do you rank him above Hunt and Okafor?

     




    Hey PL,

     

    I think Tank is a Rd 1 talent yes... very good size/length/athleticism... very active... versatile and play on the edge in an even or odd front, kick inside in 43 rush packages (similar to how they used Cunningham/Francis) and projects as a very good run defender.

    Where he gets drafted all depends on how his knee checks out.

    I have him over both Hunt and Okafor, yes.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    That is what I thought. The knee worries me a bit, but he says he will be 100% by his pro day. Looking forward to seeing him run.n

    Mayock has some nice prelim analysis coming out of the combine on DE's. check it out.

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/2013/2/27/4017550/

    mike-mayocks-defensive-positional-rankings-conference-call-notes

     

     

     

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