***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?



    Hi Faucet,

    In addition to the ballard comments I think people have to keep in mind the players already on the team.

    With the exception of Eifert, on a purely measurables view, ertz and most of the others did not fare any better than either Daniels or Hooman did when they came out.

    WHen we look at WR's or CB, etc there is not currently many options under contract so its easier to speculate all sorts of possible guys making the team. ...at least until FA is over.

    I always try to say yeah oh I like this guy or that guy but then go back and look at the Pats depth chart and ask ok who is he really beating out and how long will it take to impact if he even makes the team.

    We may not love certain guys at various positions on the Pats but they are guys who have been playing in a league a while. When you go back and look at their combines compared to the guys we like coming out, for me at least, I often find myself going hmmm oh ok not that great.

    Especially the later round guys. I assume that's why Bill take some of these special teams types like Ebner etc because he thinks whats available at other spots isn't going to make the team and be a wasted pick.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Hey all! Got a chance to watch some of the combine this past w/e. Was very impressed with the D-line class as well as the CB class. I think the offensive lineman were equally impressive but thats not as sexy to talk about and im not sure of our needs there yet until they make a move on Vollmer.

    Im sure this thread been going for a while. the rest of the board is infested with people and their agendas so I figured this thread would be civil.

    Havent seen some of you in a while and had no idea there were still regulars but I dont blame you for not dealing with other threads, its crazy now.

     

    What I wanted to see is if anyone has any particular "pats type" players they like so far and does anyone have a favorite at every position just so I can guage what kids may visit here as i put you alls knowledge above any national people because We Know our team so lets see it. I like a few of the safeties  I saw but not sure any of them are the full package yet and Im thinking F/A may be the better option to fill the SS position but def. think we can land a good CB. Looks to be a lot of athleticim and speed coming out.

     



    Hey man, below are my Top 5's at each position for players that realistically have a shot at ending up in Foxobor:

     

    DT:

    1.       Jesse Williams- Alabama

    2.       John Hankins- Ohio State

    3.       Sylvester Williams- UNC

    4.       John Jenkins- Georgia

    5.       Josh Boyd- Miss State

     

    S:

    1.       Matt Elam- Florida

    2.       Jon Cyprien- FIU

    3.       DJ Swearinger- South Carolina

    4.       Josh Evans- Florida

    5.       Shawn Williams- Georgia

     

    OL:

    1.       Jon Cooper- UNC (OG/C)

    2.       Barrett Jones- Alabama (OG/C)

    3.       Brian Winters- Kent State (OG)

    4.       David QuessenBerry- San Jose State (OT/OG)

    5.       Brian Schwenke- Cal (OG/C) / Reid Fragel OSU (OT) / Jeff Baca (OG/C)

     

    WR:

    1.       DeAndre Hopkins- Clemson

    2.       Quinton Patton- LTU

    3.       Stedman Bailey- WVU

    4.       Ryan Swope- Tex A&M

    5.       Ace Sanders- South Carolina

     

    CB:

    1.       Logan Ryan- Rutgers

    2.       DJ Hayden- Houston

    3.       Darius Slay- Miss State

    4.       Jamar Taylor- Boise State

    5.       Jordan Poyer- Oregon State

     

    DE/OLB

    1.       Tank Carradine- FSU

    2.       Margus Hunt- SMU

    3.       Michael Buchanan- Illinois

    4.       Devin Taylor- South Carolina

    5.       Lavar Edwards- LSU

     

     

    LB:

    1.       Kiko Alonso- Oregon

    2.       Sio Moore- UConn

    3.       Nathan Williams- OSU

    4.       Zach Boren- OSU

    5.       John Bostic- Florida

     




     

    Thanks MB, you the man! Thx for putting in the research. I dont catch many college games anymore because I coach youth B-ball on saturdays,,,and I feel so lost going in now..Im glad you guys made this thread!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?

     



    I think they're hoping Ballard comes back and fills that #2 TE role.

     




    Yeah but he is no where near the athlete and has only played in 15 games before getting hurt and missing all of last year. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?



    Looks like everyone had a different version of what I wanted to say in response.

    I look at it from a per position diminishing returns perspective. With Gronk, Hern, Ballard, I just don't see a lot of additional value that another TE brings, regardless of talent level.

    On the CB side, I feel, they are just starting to figure things out. Talib showed us (or may better to say teased us) that secondary is a few moves from getting fixed. I really would like to get Talib back, to reduce fit uncertainties that they have to face withe other CBs. That said, I believe they should add more CBs to the stable for two, perhaps inter-related, reasons.

    1) Talib is not exactly a poster child for durability. Neither is Ras. Dennard also showed signs he could potentially be injured to (hamstring, if I remember right). These three are talented, but it looks like the Pats need four of these talented CBs that they could rotate on the injury list... er, active list.

    2) More and more teams are passing more and more. That adds stress to the secondary, so if the CBs are already experiencing injuries, I imagine it could be worse in the coming few seasons.

    You could think the same on the interior DL side. You have VW. Next to him, you have Love and Deaderick, who I feel are close to being but not quite starting caliber. 

    This is where I am coming from when thinking of who the Pats should pick on the first two rounds.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?

     



    Hi Faucet,

     

    In addition to the ballard comments I think people have to keep in mind the players already on the team.

    With the exception of Eifert, on a purely measurables view, ertz and most of the others did not fare any better than either Daniels or Hooman did when they came out.

    WHen we look at WR's or CB, etc there is not currently many options under contract so its easier to speculate all sorts of possible guys making the team. ...at least until FA is over.

    I always try to say yeah oh I like this guy or that guy but then go back and look at the Pats depth chart and ask ok who is he really beating out and how long will it take to impact if he even makes the team.

    We may not love certain guys at various positions on the Pats but they are guys who have been playing in a league a while. When you go back and look at their combines compared to the guys we like coming out, for me at least, I often find myself going hmmm oh ok not that great.

    Especially the later round guys. I assume that's why Bill take some of these special teams types like Ebner etc because he thinks whats available at other spots isn't going to make the team and be a wasted pick.




    I was trying to find a creative way to address our need for a big, physical WR and to address the problem we had last year by having both stud TEs out for significant time.  Trying to kill two birds with one stone so to speak.  Moving Hernandez to WR full-time is an option.  Ballard may be productive, he may not.  Eifert is going to be a stud, Gronk-lite if you ask me.

    We will likely sign a couple of veteran F/A WRs and perhaps draft one.  Hartline maybe?  BB was there for all the WR drills so that was pretty telling.  Then I don't recall seeing him at all for the defense.  Unlike most on here, I don't think we are going heavy on D this year.  The reason is our age is on offense and we have far more players on offense not under contract.  The D will get better with time as we had a lot of young players last year seeing lots of reps like Dennard, Hightower, Wilson, Jones,etc.  If we get Ed Reed and get Talib back and if Dennard doesn't spend the year in the can, it's hard to see who we could draft that would beat out a veteran. 

    I think Ninkovich and Love are possible areas we could upgrade.  I like Chase Thomas in the 3rd if he's around.  I didn't get to see much of him at the Combine because Te-o went before him and they kept showing his replays and not Thomas.

    But there is no question we have a lot of potential holes on offense especially if we lose Vollmer and cut Lloyd.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?

     



    Looks like everyone had a different version of what I wanted to say in response.

     

    I look at it from a per position diminishing returns perspective. With Gronk, Hern, Ballard, I just don't see a lot of additional value that another TE brings, regardless of talent level.

    On the CB side, I feel, they are just starting to figure things out. Talib showed us (or may better to say teased us) that secondary is a few moves from getting fixed. I really would like to get Talib back, to reduce fit uncertainties that they have to face withe other CBs. That said, I believe they should add more CBs to the stable for two, perhaps inter-related, reasons.

    1) Talib is not exactly a poster child for durability. Neither is Ras. Dennard also showed signs he could potentially be injured to (hamstring, if I remember right). These three are talented, but it looks like the Pats need four of these talented CBs that they could rotate on the injury list... er, active list.

    2) More and more teams are passing more and more. That adds stress to the secondary, so if the CBs are already experiencing injuries, I imagine it could be worse in the coming few seasons.

    You could think the same on the interior DL side. You have VW. Next to him, you have Love and Deaderick, who I feel are close to being but not quite starting caliber. 

    This is where I am coming from when thinking of who the Pats should pick on the first two rounds.



    There are a couple of corners I like who could be there at 29, Rhodes and Trufant.  But I'm sick of spending 1-2 round picks on DBs then watching them bust.  We've had so many of them recently - Meriweather, Wheatley, Butler, Dowling (so far), Chung, possibly Wilson (too soon to tell) and you could say McCourty appears to be a bust at corner. That is a lot of 1-2 round picks wasted!!!  When you consider that our starters at the end of the year were a free agent and 7th round pick it makes me NOT trust BB to draft DBs high.

     
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  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Hey all! Got a chance to watch some of the combine this past w/e. Was very impressed with the D-line class as well as the CB class. I think the offensive lineman were equally impressive but thats not as sexy to talk about and im not sure of our needs there yet until they make a move on Vollmer.

    Im sure this thread been going for a while. the rest of the board is infested with people and their agendas so I figured this thread would be civil.

    Havent seen some of you in a while and had no idea there were still regulars but I dont blame you for not dealing with other threads, its crazy now.

     

    What I wanted to see is if anyone has any particular "pats type" players they like so far and does anyone have a favorite at every position just so I can guage what kids may visit here as i put you alls knowledge above any national people because We Know our team so lets see it. I like a few of the safeties  I saw but not sure any of them are the full package yet and Im thinking F/A may be the better option to fill the SS position but def. think we can land a good CB. Looks to be a lot of athleticim and speed coming out.

     



    Hey man, below are my Top 5's at each position for players that realistically have a shot at ending up in Foxobor:

     

    DT:

    1.       Jesse Williams- Alabama

    2.       John Hankins- Ohio State

    3.       Sylvester Williams- UNC

    4.       John Jenkins- Georgia

    5.       Josh Boyd- Miss State

     

    S:

    1.       Matt Elam- Florida

    2.       Jon Cyprien- FIU

    3.       DJ Swearinger- South Carolina

    4.       Josh Evans- Florida

    5.       Shawn Williams- Georgia

     

    OL:

    1.       Jon Cooper- UNC (OG/C)

    2.       Barrett Jones- Alabama (OG/C)

    3.       Brian Winters- Kent State (OG)

    4.       David QuessenBerry- San Jose State (OT/OG)

    5.       Brian Schwenke- Cal (OG/C) / Reid Fragel OSU (OT) / Jeff Baca (OG/C)

     

    WR:

    1.       DeAndre Hopkins- Clemson

    2.       Quinton Patton- LTU

    3.       Stedman Bailey- WVU

    4.       Ryan Swope- Tex A&M

    5.       Ace Sanders- South Carolina

     

    CB:

    1.       Logan Ryan- Rutgers

    2.       DJ Hayden- Houston

    3.       Darius Slay- Miss State

    4.       Jamar Taylor- Boise State

    5.       Jordan Poyer- Oregon State

     

    DE/OLB

    1.       Tank Carradine- FSU

    2.       Margus Hunt- SMU

    3.       Michael Buchanan- Illinois

    4.       Devin Taylor- South Carolina

    5.       Lavar Edwards- LSU

     

     

    LB:

    1.       Kiko Alonso- Oregon

    2.       Sio Moore- UConn

    3.       Nathan Williams- OSU

    4.       Zach Boren- OSU

    5.       John Bostic- Florida

     

     




     

     

    Thanks MB, you the man! Thx for putting in the research. I dont catch many college games anymore because I coach youth B-ball on saturdays,,,and I feel so lost going in now..Im glad you guys made this thread!



    No prob man, happy to contribute.... we'll do this thread as long as BDC is open for business!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    rotoworld's latest post-combine mock draft....

    29. New England Patriots -- CB Jamar Taylor, Boise State

    Admittedly, I am a huge fan of Taylor’s, but he fits what the Patriots look for in a cornerback. Even if the team gives Aqib Talib a new deal, this is a logical selection. Taylor is versatile in the coverages he is comfortable in and consistently disrupts the catch point.

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/42642/344/post-combine-mock-draft?pg=2



    First time I've seen him mocked that high, but def not out of the realm of possibility... like you, he's on my short, short list.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    National Football Post's Russ Lande writes Florida State CB Xavier Rhodes wasn't impressive in interviews.

    "Rhodes struggled throughout the drills looking upright, stiff and mechanical trying to flip hips and change directions," Lande writes. "Additionally, he battled the ball nearly every time and did not show the hands to be counted on to make plays when he gets the chance at the next level. Lastly, Rhodes interviews were not impressive." Rhodes is one of 10 players Lande lists who struggled at the combine.



    Kids gonna make a good living punching WR's at the LOS, but the above is certainly consistent with the belief that he's not a good fit for teams that predominantly operate in zone (i.e. NE).  I have him on my board because I like the idea of BB bringing in a kid that can provide a skill set that they don't currently have, but that would also signal a bit of a shift in defensive philosophy.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?

     



    Hi Faucet,

     

    In addition to the ballard comments I think people have to keep in mind the players already on the team.

    With the exception of Eifert, on a purely measurables view, ertz and most of the others did not fare any better than either Daniels or Hooman did when they came out.

    WHen we look at WR's or CB, etc there is not currently many options under contract so its easier to speculate all sorts of possible guys making the team. ...at least until FA is over.

    I always try to say yeah oh I like this guy or that guy but then go back and look at the Pats depth chart and ask ok who is he really beating out and how long will it take to impact if he even makes the team.

    We may not love certain guys at various positions on the Pats but they are guys who have been playing in a league a while. When you go back and look at their combines compared to the guys we like coming out, for me at least, I often find myself going hmmm oh ok not that great.

    Especially the later round guys. I assume that's why Bill take some of these special teams types like Ebner etc because he thinks whats available at other spots isn't going to make the team and be a wasted pick.

     




    I was trying to find a creative way to address our need for a big, physical WR and to address the problem we had last year by having both stud TEs out for significant time.  Trying to kill two birds with one stone so to speak.  Moving Hernandez to WR full-time is an option.  Ballard may be productive, he may not.  Eifert is going to be a stud, Gronk-lite if you ask me.

     

    We will likely sign a couple of veteran F/A WRs and perhaps draft one.  Hartline maybe?  BB was there for all the WR drills so that was pretty telling.  Then I don't recall seeing him at all for the defense.  Unlike most on here, I don't think we are going heavy on D this year.  The reason is our age is on offense and we have far more players on offense not under contract.  The D will get better with time as we had a lot of young players last year seeing lots of reps like Dennard, Hightower, Wilson, Jones,etc.  If we get Ed Reed and get Talib back and if Dennard doesn't spend the year in the can, it's hard to see who we could draft that would beat out a veteran. 

    I think Ninkovich and Love are possible areas we could upgrade.  I like Chase Thomas in the 3rd if he's around.  I didn't get to see much of him at the Combine because Te-o went before him and they kept showing his replays and not Thomas.

    But there is no question we have a lot of potential holes on offense especially if we lose Vollmer and cut Lloyd.



    It's a good thought because Eifert did spend a lot of time in the slot and out wide... heck, he drew Milliner in the NC game... though was clearly ND's biggest offensive weapon and Milliner has the size and physicality to match up.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?



    faucet did yo urememebr we have ballard. i said who knows how many pages ago as a joke, we draft ertz and use 1 or 2 of the 4 as pass rushers till hern or gronk inevitably go down :)

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?



    ps we need a big bodied wr who can go up in traffic on the outside and snag the ball (and not just fall down)  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    mB,

    i was surprised to see you call out carradine at 29.. You think Jhelum is a 1st round talent? Do you rank him above Hunt and Okafor?

     




    Hey PL,

     

    I think Tank is a Rd 1 talent yes... very good size/length/athleticism... very active... versatile and play on the edge in an even or odd front, kick inside in 43 rush packages (similar to how they used Cunningham/Francis) and projects as a very good run defender.

    Where he gets drafted all depends on how his knee checks out.

    I have him over both Hunt and Okafor, yes.



    hes top 10 pick without the injury and been rising. been following my posts?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    i read that a few personnel people were questioning if Eifert even likes the game of football or if he just plays it because he happens to be good and it will pay him. they say he would play WR if he was allowed and doesn't have a will to be an NFL TE with blocking duties. i know on a BB run team players must love the game and be students of the game in order to play on his team.

    i will try and find a link.



    with 3 picks and several needs, anotiher te would be a waste

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I'm in the mood to make a guarantee, so I will do just that...

     

     

     

     

    I guarantee that Brian Hartline is a WR for NE in 2013.  Not sure I see a better fit out there, in regards to ability vs. projected cost (4-6M/year?).  He gives you that "bigger", athletic outside threat with sneaky big play ability and is an established route runner.  Not a new name, but just someone that makes too much sense, IMO.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    That's a bold prediction MB. Especially since the dolphins have gone on record making him a high priority. the only chance he doesn't get signed by the dolphins is because they go after Wallace or Bowe or another expensive WR.

    there I'd another kid I like on the phins I hope the pats make a run at and that is Sean smith. I like his size And ability to plat man. Thoughts on Smith? 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    I'm in the mood to make a guarantee, so I will do just that...

     

     

     

     

    I guarantee that Brian Hartline is a WR for NE in 2013.  Not sure I see a better fit out there, in regards to ability vs. projected cost (4-6M/year?).  He gives you that "bigger", athletic outside threat with sneaky big play ability and is an established route runner.  Not a new name, but just someone that makes too much sense, IMO.



    Wow! Bold call, MB!  I hope you are right as he would be an excellent fit.  I'm not holding my breath, though.  As a Patriot fan, I've grown to realize that sometimes the most obvious moves never happen.  That's why I really don't believe that Ryan Mallett will be traded. It just makes too much sense.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     


    There are a couple of corners I like who could be there at 29, Rhodes and Trufant.  But I'm sick of spending 1-2 round picks on DBs then watching them bust.  We've had so many of them recently - Meriweather, Wheatley, Butler, Dowling (so far), Chung, possibly Wilson (too soon to tell) and you could say McCourty appears to be a bust at corner. That is a lot of 1-2 round picks wasted!!!  When you consider that our starters at the end of the year were a free agent and 7th round pick it makes me NOT trust BB to draft DBs high.

     



    DT then?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    That's a bold prediction MB. Especially since the dolphins have gone on record making him a high priority. the only chance he doesn't get signed by the dolphins is because they go after Wallace or Bowe or another expensive WR.

    there I'd another kid I like on the phins I hope the pats make a run at and that is Sean smith. I like his size And ability to plat man. Thoughts on Smith? 



    And the Dolphins have the cap space, so yeah, that could be a road block... I have read that Wallace is priority # 1 though, so it all depends on how much they're willing to throw at the WR corps.

    I like Smith, but I think he wants to set the market with his contract... whether he's succesful at doing so is another question, but big, young kids that can run and cover are at a premium... at the end of the day, I think he prices himself out of NE's market.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    I'm in the mood to make a guarantee, so I will do just that...

     

     

     

     

    I guarantee that Brian Hartline is a WR for NE in 2013.  Not sure I see a better fit out there, in regards to ability vs. projected cost (4-6M/year?).  He gives you that "bigger", athletic outside threat with sneaky big play ability and is an established route runner.  Not a new name, but just someone that makes too much sense, IMO.

     



    Wow! Bold call, MB!  I hope you are right as he would be an excellent fit.  I'm not holding my breath, though.  As a Patriot fan, I've grown to realize that sometimes the most obvious moves never happen.  That's why I really don't believe that Ryan Mallett will be traded. It just makes too much sense.

     

     




    He'll prob agree in principle to a new deal with Miami tomorrow, ha.

     
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