***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to SilverSun's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    If I had to pick 1 guy today who I think is most likely to be Belichick's first round pick this year (assuming that we stay put at 29, which is far from a certainty...) I would say that it would be Datone Jones from UCLA.  He is a very impressive player when you watch him, more so than I realized from watching Pac-12 games this year.  This guy has the strength to be effective in run support, yet is well suited to get after the passer as well.  He is a very versatile player who can line up all across the D-Line and be effective from anywhere, a trait that we all know that BB would covet.  Based on what I have seen, Jones is likely to be available late first round.

     



    i dotn know abotu most likely but i agree with you and hes in the group of pass rushers id like to land

     

    Hey Bredbru, don't walk away from Margus Hunt of SMU now; I know you like his game and he could be a throwback to a Ted Hendricks type player on the edge big, fast, athletic, and able to knock down passes and get pressur/sacks.  How did you like Hunt's combine, Bredbru?



    hey silver, it was TOO good. raising his stoock higher than id like. dont remeber where i said it, probably here, he has tremendous raw strength. id have him in the weight room powerlifting developing his lower body strength. that and teaching him pass rush moves and the kid will be unstoppable (upside a jj watt type). needs to learn football more as well obviously. but pass rush is what we need most and teach him that and we will be vastly improved.

    and im not off him, hes just at or near the bottom of my pass rusher list cause of his rawness as a football player.

    poor combine and we might have got him in rd 2 (what coulda been :)

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to SilverSun's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    If I had to pick 1 guy today who I think is most likely to be Belichick's first round pick this year (assuming that we stay put at 29, which is far from a certainty...) I would say that it would be Datone Jones from UCLA.  He is a very impressive player when you watch him, more so than I realized from watching Pac-12 games this year.  This guy has the strength to be effective in run support, yet is well suited to get after the passer as well.  He is a very versatile player who can line up all across the D-Line and be effective from anywhere, a trait that we all know that BB would covet.  Based on what I have seen, Jones is likely to be available late first round.

     



    i dotn know abotu most likely but i agree with you and hes in the group of pass rushers id like to land

     

    Hey Bredbru, don't walk away from Margus Hunt of SMU now; I know you like his game and he could be a throwback to a Ted Hendricks type player on the edge big, fast, athletic, and able to knock down passes and get pressur/sacks.  How did you like Hunt's combine, Bredbru?

     




    Jones might not be there at 29 but perhaps Bjoern Warner is slipping?  Mayock has him dropping to the end of the 1st, early 2nd. 

     

    I like Hunt a lot although he is very raw.  He had trouble setting the edge in the Sr. Bowl but he has huge upside.  I could see him bulking up and could be 43 DE or 34 DE in a few years.  I can see a lot of batted balls.  I love him as a book end to Jones coming off the right tackle.  Let him learn behind Ninkovich for a year and work him into the D.  He should be there at 29 or perhaps with a slight trade back.

    Balt at 32 is most likely going ILB, either Te-o or Ogletree.

    SF at 31 is probably going CB or DT and there will be plenty of options there

    Atl at 30 is most likely going TE but with their recent cuts could target a DE or CB

    So we could trade back, especially if Smith or Barkley are still on the board as there are a bunch of teams at the top who need a QB but might feel neither are worthy of a top 10 pick which is how I feel.

     



    " but perhaps Bjoern Warner is slipping?  Mayock has him dropping to the end of the 1st, early 2nd. "

    dontr know what hes smokin'....

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    National Football Post's Russ Lande writes Florida State CB Xavier Rhodes wasn't impressive in interviews.

    "Rhodes struggled throughout the drills looking upright, stiff and mechanical trying to flip hips and change directions," Lande writes. "Additionally, he battled the ball nearly every time and did not show the hands to be counted on to make plays when he gets the chance at the next level. Lastly, Rhodes interviews were not impressive." Rhodes is one of 10 players Lande lists who struggled at the combine.



    Kids gonna make a good living punching WR's at the LOS, but the above is certainly consistent with the belief that he's not a good fit for teams that predominantly operate in zone (i.e. NE).  I have him on my board because I like the idea of BB bringing in a kid that can provide a skill set that they don't currently have, but that would also signal a bit of a shift in defensive philosophy.

     

     




    I'm looking at Rhodes as a possible SS who can match up on TEs if he doesn't make it as a corner.  He's big and physical.  If Denard and Talib are back, our big need is at strong safety and we would have position flexibility.  Chung may not be restricted and if he is, it would be at the 2nd round level.  I think we keep Rhodes on our board.

     



    hellooooo...agreed

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

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    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    Guys,


    I think a strong case can be made to draft Eifert and even possibly Ertz at 29 if they are available, especially Eifert.  The importance of the TE position in NE and the success they have had is well documented but here is the data behind this.

    In 2011 Gronk played in all 16 regular season games and Hernandez played in 14.  Combined they were:

    169/2,237/24.  The Pats went 13-3 and went to the SB

    In 2012 Gronk played in 11 regular season games and Hernandez played in 10.  Combined they were:

    106/1,273/16.  The Pats went 12-4 and lost the AFCCG

    That is a lot of lost production. 63 catches, nearly 1,000 yards and 8 TDs.  Counting the play-offs the two stud TEs only had stats together in 4 of the 18 games. 


    In games where only one of these TEs had stats they averaged 6.1/74.9/.9

    In games where both had stats these TEs averaged 10.5/107/1.5


    The Pats were 10-4 where only one TE played and were 3-1 when having both.  Each TE played 7 games essentially without the other, meaning the other either didn't play or got hurt and left without producing any stats.  Production was similar for both except for TDs.


    With just Hern: 44/464/3, team scored 225 points and went 5-2

    With just Gronk: 41/585/10, team scored 272 points and went 5-2

    First, there is no way Eifert gets past Atlanta at 30.  He probably doesn't make it to 29 but if he does, I think we could do a lot of cool things with Eifert.  First, he can fill in for Gronk should he go down again.  Second, we could run a lot of three TE sets with Hern playing as the H or lined up outside as a jacked up WR.  The mismatches having all 3 stud TEs on the field at the same time would be incredible.  Because Hern can play WR, drafting Eifert would be like drafting one of the big WRs but with the ability to be insurance for either Gronk or Hern going down again. 


    The game is all about mis-matches.  As shown with the stats, having both Gronk and Hern on the field together, the production out of the position explodes.  Brady is more of a possession, short range passer preferring to move the chains rather than going for the quick strike downfield.  I think these guys would just be a nightmare for LBs and Ss to try to cover.  I can see all kinds of creative ways to use them together and I'm Josh could find new ways too.  Thoughts?

     



    Looks like everyone had a different version of what I wanted to say in response.

     

    I look at it from a per position diminishing returns perspective. With Gronk, Hern, Ballard, I just don't see a lot of additional value that another TE brings, regardless of talent level.

    On the CB side, I feel, they are just starting to figure things out. Talib showed us (or may better to say teased us) that secondary is a few moves from getting fixed. I really would like to get Talib back, to reduce fit uncertainties that they have to face withe other CBs. That said, I believe they should add more CBs to the stable for two, perhaps inter-related, reasons.

    1) Talib is not exactly a poster child for durability. Neither is Ras. Dennard also showed signs he could potentially be injured to (hamstring, if I remember right). These three are talented, but it looks like the Pats need four of these talented CBs that they could rotate on the injury list... er, active list.

    2) More and more teams are passing more and more. That adds stress to the secondary, so if the CBs are already experiencing injuries, I imagine it could be worse in the coming few seasons.

    You could think the same on the interior DL side. You have VW. Next to him, you have Love and Deaderick, who I feel are close to being but not quite starting caliber. 

    This is where I am coming from when thinking of who the Pats should pick on the first two rounds.

     



    There are a couple of corners I like who could be there at 29, Rhodes and Trufant.  But I'm sick of spending 1-2 round picks on DBs then watching them bust.  We've had so many of them recently - Meriweather, Wheatley, Butler, Dowling (so far), Chung, possibly Wilson (too soon to tell) and you could say McCourty appears to be a bust at corner. That is a lot of 1-2 round picks wasted!!!  When you consider that our starters at the end of the year were a free agent and 7th round pick it makes me NOT trust BB to draft DBs high.

     

     



    :)

     

    i said that all year,

    and then had rhodes as a pick too :) unique big press man (ie seattle defense we need to coverrt to).

    but if we dotn get a legit pass rusher in fa, thats #1 need in draft for me even over getting a 6 3" 215 stud cb

     




    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 



    if we lose welker it coud be a good thing (though from rumors sounds like we give him more money than id like). and i dont know if youve seen me write it, but i want to move away from running our whole offense through 4 yard routes to welker (or a replacement). its a recipe for stalled drives and stalled sb runs. we have plenty of ammo for middle of field and none for outside (except a guy who falls if he catches) and outside deep.

    a top pass rusher and big bodied speed separating receiveir who has big hands and can snag is what we need on offense to go along with a gronk and hern weapon, and rbs that can hurt you in run or out of backfield (runninG the offense out of the SAME SET JOSH) DISGUISING and giving no reads to the defense. then even good des cant just clog the middle and short (leavignus wiht no tropys for brady and bb).

    ive had the same conclusion, we keep (talb)/get a #1 cb and a #2 cb, frees us up to get what we can in draft. keeping talib looks cheaper these days looking at fa

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

     

    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 

     




    I agree that tagging Talib makes the most sense, allowing them to retain a player that clearly made the D better, with a relatively low risk deal.

     

    A couple to Rd 3 CB's to keep on your radar are Houston's DJ Hayden (who I have in Rd 2, but he is coming back from a freak injury that almost cost him his life), who'd come at a relative bargain, IMO and UConn's Dwayne Gratz... another size/speed/quicks/strength kid.

    The thought of Austin is intriguing, though another alternative would be to sign an outside WR like Brian Hartline in FA, then draft a kid like Swope or Ace Sanders on Day 2... maybe double up on WR with an other Welker-type player in Mizzou's TJ Moe who won't beat you in a sprint, but is the quick footed, sudden, COD type that they like.

     



    The more I'm looking at the market the less sense it makes to tag Talib. Here me out on this one. The tag is basd off the previously out of control CB contracts. Now with a flat cap and teams strugling to make or get good enough under the cap to make any moves applying a tag only cost you extra cap space. Considering the amount of similar tier CBs (DRC, Talib, Houston, Robinson, Smith, Grimes, Lewis) contracts should only go down. I think most agents would advise to take a 2 year contract and wait until the cap expands and contracts increase again. I think you can get a good cap friendly deal without the tag this year because the teams have all the leverage and for CB's it's a buyers market

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    The more I think about it the more I'm coming to the conclusion that of any year this would be the year I'd want to get tagged if I were a player. You get the tag value of when contracts were out of control, in a market that looks like it might be floaded by cheaper vet options (we haven't eve seen all the cuts yet), and after this years teams might have stbilized their cap space so they can reinvest next year. If I got tagged I'd haply sign it and not even attempt to negotiate a long term deal because the market is going to fall out on FA's and next year you might hae a better shot at getting a bigger contract

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Margus Hunt makes me nervous. I really don't like his lack of production @ SMU, and I also don't like that he will be a 26 year old rookie.  I'd be okay taking him late 2nd, but he won't last that long. I hope we don't use our first on him.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Agreed with Wazzu.  I like taking risks in the draft, but would rather us take it on a talented guy with character issues.  I hope the Pats strongly consider Tyrann Mathieu in the 3rd round, or the 4th if they get an extra pick.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to titletownfan's comment:

    Agreed with Wazzu.  I like taking risks in the draft, but would rather us take it on a talented guy with character issues.  I hope the Pats strongly consider Tyrann Mathieu in the 3rd round, or the 4th if they get an extra pick.



    Agree. Mathieu would be well worth the gamble late 3rd or later.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

     

    i said that all year,

    and then had rhodes as a pick too :) unique big press man (ie seattle defense we need to coverrt to).

    but if we dotn get a legit pass rusher in fa, thats #1 need in draft for me even over getting a 6 3" 215 stud cb

     




    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 

     




    I agree that tagging Talib makes the most sense, allowing them to retain a player that clearly made the D better, with a relatively low risk deal.

     

    A couple to Rd 3 CB's to keep on your radar are Houston's DJ Hayden (who I have in Rd 2, but he is coming back from a freak injury that almost cost him his life), who'd come at a relative bargain, IMO and UConn's Dwayne Gratz... another size/speed/quicks/strength kid.

    The thought of Austin is intriguing, though another alternative would be to sign an outside WR like Brian Hartline in FA, then draft a slot kid like Swope or Ace Sanders on Day 2... maybe double up on WR with an other Welker-type player in Mizzou's TJ Moe who won't beat you in a sprint, but is the quick footed, sudden, COD type that they like.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would think you could line Swope up outside too?  He's one of my favorite WRs in this draft.  Austin is just a human missile, IMO.  I think he's better than Percy Harvin without the migraine issues.  Rumor was BB was all over Harvin if he had lasted to 23 but of course MIN took him at 22 which started us trading back and back until we eventually landed Chung at 34.

    Harvin is taller (5'11") and slower 4.4 than Austin (5'9") 4.34.  Moe is an interesting cat, impressed with a 3.96 shuttle and a 6.53 cone, both tops.  Yeah, we really don't need to spend a 1st round pick on a slot receiver. But chances are Welker will be back on a 3-4 year deal as I don't think his value would be as great away from Brady and I heard there won't be a lot of money being thrown around in free agency this year.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    Margus Hunt makes me nervous. I really don't like his lack of production @ SMU, and I also don't like that he will be a 26 year old rookie.  I'd be okay taking him late 2nd, but he won't last that long. I hope we don't use our first on him.



    exactly

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

     

    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 

     




    I agree that tagging Talib makes the most sense, allowing them to retain a player that clearly made the D better, with a relatively low risk deal.

     

    A couple to Rd 3 CB's to keep on your radar are Houston's DJ Hayden (who I have in Rd 2, but he is coming back from a freak injury that almost cost him his life), who'd come at a relative bargain, IMO and UConn's Dwayne Gratz... another size/speed/quicks/strength kid.

    The thought of Austin is intriguing, though another alternative would be to sign an outside WR like Brian Hartline in FA, then draft a kid like Swope or Ace Sanders on Day 2... maybe double up on WR with an other Welker-type player in Mizzou's TJ Moe who won't beat you in a sprint, but is the quick footed, sudden, COD type that they like.

     



    The more I'm looking at the market the less sense it makes to tag Talib. Here me out on this one. The tag is basd off the previously out of control CB contracts. Now with a flat cap and teams strugling to make or get good enough under the cap to make any moves applying a tag only cost you extra cap space. Considering the amount of similar tier CBs (DRC, Talib, Houston, Robinson, Smith, Grimes, Lewis) contracts should only go down. I think most agents would advise to take a 2 year contract and wait until the cap expands and contracts increase again. I think you can get a good cap friendly deal without the tag this year because the teams have all the leverage and for CB's it's a buyers market

     



    thats wahtg i was trying to say / implying if it was not clear

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to NOISE's comment:

     

    Hey MB,  your thoughts on dee milliner from Bama?  The cover corner....I think the kid is special, and will go top 10.  I know BB has the inside track to Bama players now, but what if Saban said to him, this kid is beyond exceptional Bill, gotta have him....

    Im not even saying go up n get him, b/c it wud take a lot to jump that high and pats don't have too many picks this yr....I see pats falling out of first rd this yr to gain some picks back.

     

    just curious about your take?

     

     

     




    Hey, NOISE,

     

    Really like Milliner, had him on my radar last year from watching film of Barron, etc... and he sure looked the part again this year...  Looks like a complete CB to me, good size, can run, moves well and very physical... Top CB in this class and one of the best players available.

    I agree that he's gone in the Top 10, so the chances of him landing in Foxboro are highly unlikely.

    A trade back or two is very likely IMO, yeah.



    Thanks MB!  Yeah, he's probably top 5 even.   Who ever gets him, going to hit a homer with him I feel.  Agree on the trade back....lol.   

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Ideally, this is what the Pats do in the offseason:

    FA:

    1) Make a play for Keenan Lewis CB - Pittsburgh. Anyone watched the two games the Steelers and Ravens played will see what a great job Pittsburgh's corners did in press man vs torrey smith and co. Its no wonder the steelers were able to beat Baltimore in Baltimore with their 3rd string QB. Pay particular attention to the the job Lewis did against Anquan Boldin. He made Boldin look outmatched in a way I have never seen before. At 6ft 210pounds, good strength and elite speed, Lewis can play press man and win against any type of corner.

    2) Sign DT Desmond Bryant or Randy Starks - Both of these guys give you elite Run Defense and Consistent Pressure from the inside. Signing a rookie DT and expecting him to dominate against NFL Veteran O Line men who have  been in Professional Strength and Conditioning programs for years in simply not realistic. It usually takes rookie DT's a few seasons to start playing up to their potential.

    3) Sign Brian Hartline - The case for an outside WR has already been well made on this board. No use beating a dead horse.

    4) Sign Kaluka Maiava OLB Cleveland - Excellent coverage Linebacker who can play on all downs. The past season the stats showed we actually did well covering the opposing No 1 and 2 receivers but ranked close to bottom of the league against The 3 Receiver, RB and TE. Improving speed and athleticism at MLB and SLB would go a long way towards fixing this. I would move Hightower to MLB and PLAY Maiava at SLB. Spikes would rotate with Hightower as needed.

    5) Resign Welker!

    6) Bring back Andre Carter as part of the DE rotation. Had a good season at Oakland and is even further Removed fom his Quad Injury. John Abraham and Dwight Freeney would also be  good albeit more expensive options.

    Draft:

    2a) Pick 1: Trade down to late 30's or early 40's and get an extra 3rder.Pick Larry Warford G Kentucky : Elite run blocking on the level of Chance Warmack and good pass protector. Very good feet and amazing strength. Won his matchups this season against all the DT's he went against. He beat Shariff Floyd, Dominated Sheldon Richardson and Shut out John Jenkins. Going into the season, my hope is that the Pats focus on improving their Perimeter passing game and continue improving their running game. Warford IMO would be a great improvement over Dan Conolly especially in those 3rd and Short situations where we seemed to struggle in the Conference Championship game. Warford has ALL Pro Potential.

    2b) Pick 2: #59: Justin Hunter WR Tennesee: Coming back from an ACL, he had a decent season but I expect him to get better this year as he is further removed from the ACL injury. At 6-4, 196, he has really good body control,leaping ability and route running. Has had a few issues with drops this season but is an issue that can be fixed. Hunter was a consensus first round pick going into this past season.

    3a) Zaviar Gooden LB Missouri: 4.47 40 and superb lateral agility make Gooden an intriguing option as a 3 down player. Expect the Pats to look at lighter LBers like Gooden and Arthur Brown in this draft in an attempt to fix their pass defense when in base. Gooden can keep up with Wide Receivers in the slot, Man up against RB's such as spiller, Bush and Rice in the passing game and even play faster Te's like Hernandez in man coverage. What he may give up in the run game due to his smaller stature can be masked by playing behind bigger DT's like Wilfork. It was widely rumored the Pats were very interested in Lavonte David and Demario Davis in last years draft.

    3b) Marcus Latimore RB South Carolina: Value pick. If he returns to pre injury form then this is undoubtedly the biggest steal of the draft. Lattimore, Ridley and Vereen running behind a Line of Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Warford and Cannon would be extremely formidable . As Brady grows older, its only fair that others should carry more of the responsibility for the teams success much like the late 90's Broncos did with Terell Davis carrying the team to back to back Super Bowls.

    7a) Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky.

    7b) Kenny Tate OLB Maryland.

     

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    Margus Hunt makes me nervous. I really don't like his lack of production @ SMU, and I also don't like that he will be a 26 year old rookie.  I'd be okay taking him late 2nd, but he won't last that long. I hope we don't use our first on him.

     



    exactly

     

     



    i concur. ideally i would like him in the 3rd. 

     

     



    WALTER Has him mocked to #34, sf today

    hopkins 41, okaFOR 45, carradine 47, warfoprd 48, t wiliams 55, hunter 56, woods 61, trvis frederick 76, rambo 83, dobson 85, da rick rogers 94 (ie could be had in 3rd if shook out this way)

     

    he gives us syl williAMS AND amerson (simply becaus "bb loves hybrids"-thumbs down) in rd 2, glennon in rd 3 (too soon for a qb replacement, and esp with only 3 picks)

     

    if it turned out like this we could go carradine (even trading down) with first pick, have our choice of a slew of good big wrs from rd 2 on (woods, rogers etc), get a cb and ol (safety option over cb or ol).

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dwhite1220. Show dwhite1220's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to speedster81's comment:

    Ideally, this is what the Pats do in the offseason:

    FA:

    1) Make a play for Keenan Lewis CB - Pittsburgh. Anyone watched the two games the Steelers and Ravens played will see what a great job Pittsburgh's corners did in press man vs torrey smith and co. Its no wonder the steelers were able to beat Baltimore in Baltimore with their 3rd string QB. Pay particular attention to the the job Lewis did against Anquan Boldin. He made Boldin look outmatched in a way I have never seen before. At 6ft 210pounds, good strength and elite speed, Lewis can play press man and win against any type of corner.

    2) Sign DT Desmond Bryant or Randy Starks - Both of these guys give you elite Run Defense and Consistent Pressure from the inside. Signing a rookie DT and expecting him to dominate against NFL Veteran O Line men who have  been in Professional Strength and Conditioning programs for years in simply not realistic. It usually takes rookie DT's a few seasons to start playing up to their potential.

    3) Sign Brian Hartline - The case for an outside WR has already been well made on this board. No use beating a dead horse.

    4) Sign Kaluka Maiava OLB Cleveland - Excellent coverage Linebacker who can play on all downs. The past season the stats showed we actually did well covering the opposing No 1 and 2 receivers but ranked close to bottom of the league against The 3 Receiver, RB and TE. Improving speed and athleticism at MLB and SLB would go a long way towards fixing this. I would move Hightower to MLB and PLAY Maiava at SLB. Spikes would rotate with Hightower as needed.

    5) Resign Welker!

    6) Bring back Andre Carter as part of the DE rotation. Had a good season at Oakland and is even further Removed fom his Quad Injury. John Abraham and Dwight Freeney would also be  good albeit more expensive options.

    Draft:

    2a) Pick 1: Trade down to late 30's or early 40's and get an extra 3rder.Pick Larry Warford G Kentucky : Elite run blocking on the level of Chance Warmack and good pass protector. Very good feet and amazing strength. Won his matchups this season against all the DT's he went against. He beat Shariff Floyd, Dominated Sheldon Richardson and Shut out John Jenkins. Going into the season, my hope is that the Pats focus on improving their Perimeter passing game and continue improving their running game. Warford IMO would be a great improvement over Dan Conolly especially in those 3rd and Short situations where we seemed to struggle in the Conference Championship game. Warford has ALL Pro Potential.

    2b) Pick 2: #59: Justin Hunter WR Tennesee: Coming back from an ACL, he had a decent season but I expect him to get better this year as he is further removed from the ACL injury. At 6-4, 196, he has really good body control,leaping ability and route running. Has had a few issues with drops this season but is an issue that can be fixed. Hunter was a consensus first round pick going into this past season.

    3a) Zaviar Gooden LB Missouri: 4.47 40 and superb lateral agility make Gooden an intriguing option as a 3 down player. Expect the Pats to look at lighter LBers like Gooden and Arthur Brown in this draft in an attempt to fix their pass defense when in base. Gooden can keep up with Wide Receivers in the slot, Man up against RB's such as spiller, Bush and Rice in the passing game and even play faster Te's like Hernandez in man coverage. What he may give up in the run game due to his smaller stature can be masked by playing behind bigger DT's like Wilfork. It was widely rumored the Pats were very interested in Lavonte David and Demario Davis in last years draft.

    3b) Marcus Latimore RB South Carolina: Value pick. If he returns to pre injury form then this is undoubtedly the biggest steal of the draft. Lattimore, Ridley and Vereen running behind a Line of Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Warford and Cannon would be extremely formidable . As Brady grows older, its only fair that others should carry more of the responsibility for the teams success much like the late 90's Broncos did with Terell Davis carrying the team to back to back Super Bowls.

    7a) Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky.

    7b) Kenny Tate OLB Maryland.

     

    I like but I think we need another safety. What do you think ?


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    i said that all year,

    and then had rhodes as a pick too :) unique big press man (ie seattle defense we need to coverrt to).

    but if we dotn get a legit pass rusher in fa, thats #1 need in draft for me even over getting a 6 3" 215 stud cb

     




    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 

     




    I agree that tagging Talib makes the most sense, allowing them to retain a player that clearly made the D better, with a relatively low risk deal.

     

    A couple to Rd 3 CB's to keep on your radar are Houston's DJ Hayden (who I have in Rd 2, but he is coming back from a freak injury that almost cost him his life), who'd come at a relative bargain, IMO and UConn's Dwayne Gratz... another size/speed/quicks/strength kid.

    The thought of Austin is intriguing, though another alternative would be to sign an outside WR like Brian Hartline in FA, then draft a slot kid like Swope or Ace Sanders on Day 2... maybe double up on WR with an other Welker-type player in Mizzou's TJ Moe who won't beat you in a sprint, but is the quick footed, sudden, COD type that they like.



    I would think you could line Swope up outside too?  He's one of my favorite WRs in this draft.  Austin is just a human missile, IMO.  I think he's better than Percy Harvin without the migraine issues.  Rumor was BB was all over Harvin if he had lasted to 23 but of course MIN took him at 22 which started us trading back and back until we eventually landed Chung at 34.

    Harvin is taller (5'11") and slower 4.4 than Austin (5'9") 4.34.  Moe is an interesting cat, impressed with a 3.96 shuttle and a 6.53 cone, both tops.  Yeah, we really don't need to spend a 1st round pick on a slot receiver. But chances are Welker will be back on a 3-4 year deal as I don't think his value would be as great away from Brady and I heard there won't be a lot of money being thrown around in free agency this year.

    [/QUOTE]

    For what it's worth, Harvin ran a 4.39.  It's yet to be seen if Austin is better than Harvin as, when healthy, Harvin is as versatile a weapon as there is in the NFL.  No doubting the kids explosion and big play ability though.


    I don't think Swope is incapable of playing on the outside, but he plays primarily out of the slow or stack formations.  Agree, he's one of my favorite WR's too, believe he was the 2nd player I profiled back on tab 3 of this thread (Dion Jordan was the first), ha.  Bellow is what I posted on 9/5 (I was a bit off on my speed projection, ha):

     

    Prospect Profile

    WR Ryan Swope- 6-0 206- Texas A&M

    Positives:

    *Projects as an excellent slot WR at the NFL level with the size to play outside
    *Good size
    *Hands catcher / excellent hands
    *Good fluidity and RAC ability
    *Good effort player
    *Solid route runner
    *Tempos routes extremely well and knows how to set up his man
    *Solid production against good teams
    *Solid overall career production / 180-2204-16
    *Has some kick return experience
    *Has played special teams

    Negatvies:

    *Doesn't possess elite speed (likely 4.5+ range)
    *Not an elite athlete
    *Likely not a game breaker at the NFL level

    Projection:

    I like this kid a lot... he won't wow you with speed/athleticism, but profiles and an excellent fit for NE's offense due to his route running, his ability get open and catch the football while pickiong up yards after the catch... he's also used frequently in bubble screens/isolation plays.  With the uncertain future of WW, the inconsistency Julian Edelman and the new/yet to produce Greg Salas, slot could be a position to target in the 2013 draft and I think Swope profiles as a solid Day 2 kid.  I'll be interested to see how he performs against better overall comp now that Texas A&M is in the SEC.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from speedster81. Show speedster81's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to dwhite1220's comment:

    In response to speedster81's comment:

     

    Ideally, this is what the Pats do in the offseason:

    FA:

    1) Make a play for Keenan Lewis CB - Pittsburgh. Anyone watched the two games the Steelers and Ravens played will see what a great job Pittsburgh's corners did in press man vs torrey smith and co. Its no wonder the steelers were able to beat Baltimore in Baltimore with their 3rd string QB. Pay particular attention to the the job Lewis did against Anquan Boldin. He made Boldin look outmatched in a way I have never seen before. At 6ft 210pounds, good strength and elite speed, Lewis can play press man and win against any type of corner.

    2) Sign DT Desmond Bryant or Randy Starks - Both of these guys give you elite Run Defense and Consistent Pressure from the inside. Signing a rookie DT and expecting him to dominate against NFL Veteran O Line men who have  been in Professional Strength and Conditioning programs for years in simply not realistic. It usually takes rookie DT's a few seasons to start playing up to their potential.

    3) Sign Brian Hartline - The case for an outside WR has already been well made on this board. No use beating a dead horse.

    4) Sign Kaluka Maiava OLB Cleveland - Excellent coverage Linebacker who can play on all downs. The past season the stats showed we actually did well covering the opposing No 1 and 2 receivers but ranked close to bottom of the league against The 3 Receiver, RB and TE. Improving speed and athleticism at MLB and SLB would go a long way towards fixing this. I would move Hightower to MLB and PLAY Maiava at SLB. Spikes would rotate with Hightower as needed.

    5) Resign Welker!

    6) Bring back Andre Carter as part of the DE rotation. Had a good season at Oakland and is even further Removed fom his Quad Injury. John Abraham and Dwight Freeney would also be  good albeit more expensive options.

    Draft:

    2a) Pick 1: Trade down to late 30's or early 40's and get an extra 3rder.Pick Larry Warford G Kentucky : Elite run blocking on the level of Chance Warmack and good pass protector. Very good feet and amazing strength. Won his matchups this season against all the DT's he went against. He beat Shariff Floyd, Dominated Sheldon Richardson and Shut out John Jenkins. Going into the season, my hope is that the Pats focus on improving their Perimeter passing game and continue improving their running game. Warford IMO would be a great improvement over Dan Conolly especially in those 3rd and Short situations where we seemed to struggle in the Conference Championship game. Warford has ALL Pro Potential.

    2b) Pick 2: #59: Justin Hunter WR Tennesee: Coming back from an ACL, he had a decent season but I expect him to get better this year as he is further removed from the ACL injury. At 6-4, 196, he has really good body control,leaping ability and route running. Has had a few issues with drops this season but is an issue that can be fixed. Hunter was a consensus first round pick going into this past season.

    3a) Zaviar Gooden LB Missouri: 4.47 40 and superb lateral agility make Gooden an intriguing option as a 3 down player. Expect the Pats to look at lighter LBers like Gooden and Arthur Brown in this draft in an attempt to fix their pass defense when in base. Gooden can keep up with Wide Receivers in the slot, Man up against RB's such as spiller, Bush and Rice in the passing game and even play faster Te's like Hernandez in man coverage. What he may give up in the run game due to his smaller stature can be masked by playing behind bigger DT's like Wilfork. It was widely rumored the Pats were very interested in Lavonte David and Demario Davis in last years draft.

    3b) Marcus Latimore RB South Carolina: Value pick. If he returns to pre injury form then this is undoubtedly the biggest steal of the draft. Lattimore, Ridley and Vereen running behind a Line of Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Warford and Cannon would be extremely formidable . As Brady grows older, its only fair that others should carry more of the responsibility for the teams success much like the late 90's Broncos did with Terell Davis carrying the team to back to back Super Bowls.

    7a) Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky.

    7b) Kenny Tate OLB Maryland.

     

     

    I like but I think we need another safety. What do you think ?


     



    If we did this we should be ok as pertains to safety. Zaviar Gooden run better than almost all the safety prospects at the combine and tested better than they did in the lateral agility drills. He would provide similar coverage skills as a strong safety and superior run defense than any safety could. 

    Additionally Kenny Tate started out as safety before moving to OLB. He would also act as a strong safety.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    Where I am at right now:

    Rd 1 pick #20-23 - trade up from 29 with our 3rd rd pick... take WR Keenan Allen, get TB that big rangy target at WR he has missed (keep Welker and Lloyd, devestating 3 man group)

    Rd 2 pick #61 -  C/G Barrett Jones or Travis Frederick, either would be thrown into a mix to start at C (battle Wendell and Connolly in camp) or RG (battle Thomas and Cannon), regardless of who wins, interior becomes deep and young

    *trade* Mallett and a 7th rd pick to Cleveland for the Browns 3rd, 4th and 6th rd picks

    3rd rd pick #68 - a safety, move on from Chung, hopefully bring in Ed Reed and have him groom a guy you draft here like Rambo, Reid, Swearinger, Thomas...

    4th rd pick #101 - get a speedy ILB, Jon Bostic, Gooden, A.J Klein, Kiko Alonso... someone who can backup all 3 positions when we are in a 4-3 better than White and someone who can play for the slow Spikes on 3rd down when we are in a 3-4.

    6th and 7th rd's - best availabe player, maybe a brusier of a FB/big RB and a 3rd string QB

    I think the team will be fine on the D-line if they address it through free agency, add Cullen Jenkins or Randy Starks (Sey is prob not coming back) and assume that with one of those guys starting with Big Vince you have the depth (Love, Francis, Deaderick, Armstrong) to keep them fresh. Then at DE you start Jones and Nink... bring in a veteran like Osi or Freeny to sub in pass rush for Nink and you have Bequette and Cunningham around for depth.

     

     



    only one glaring problem i see with this rame, cb. we need a #1 and a #2 cb for me (inlcuding or replacing talib.add this to the above (inludign the freeney or osi deal and im on board.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I think the biggest Riser in the draft will be Carradine. I think he is very high on the patriots board. And we would be lucky if he "falls" to us. I believe he fills a need as a LDE and would be great fit for the pats.  

    The way the accelerated ACL rehab process is going with these football players, I am not real worried about his knee for the 2013-2014 season.

    He is my number one pick for the pats and think he would do VERY well here

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

     

    i said that all year,

    and then had rhodes as a pick too :) unique big press man (ie seattle defense we need to coverrt to).

    but if we dotn get a legit pass rusher in fa, thats #1 need in draft for me even over getting a 6 3" 215 stud cb

     




    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 

     




    I agree that tagging Talib makes the most sense, allowing them to retain a player that clearly made the D better, with a relatively low risk deal.

     

    A couple to Rd 3 CB's to keep on your radar are Houston's DJ Hayden (who I have in Rd 2, but he is coming back from a freak injury that almost cost him his life), who'd come at a relative bargain, IMO and UConn's Dwayne Gratz... another size/speed/quicks/strength kid.

    The thought of Austin is intriguing, though another alternative would be to sign an outside WR like Brian Hartline in FA, then draft a slot kid like Swope or Ace Sanders on Day 2... maybe double up on WR with an other Welker-type player in Mizzou's TJ Moe who won't beat you in a sprint, but is the quick footed, sudden, COD type that they like.

     



    I would think you could line Swope up outside too?  He's one of my favorite WRs in this draft.  Austin is just a human missile, IMO.  I think he's better than Percy Harvin without the migraine issues.  Rumor was BB was all over Harvin if he had lasted to 23 but of course MIN took him at 22 which started us trading back and back until we eventually landed Chung at 34.

     

    Harvin is taller (5'11") and slower 4.4 than Austin (5'9") 4.34.  Moe is an interesting cat, impressed with a 3.96 shuttle and a 6.53 cone, both tops.  Yeah, we really don't need to spend a 1st round pick on a slot receiver. But chances are Welker will be back on a 3-4 year deal as I don't think his value would be as great away from Brady and I heard there won't be a lot of money being thrown around in free agency this year.

    For what it's worth, Harvin ran a 4.39.  It's yet to be seen if Austin is better than Harvin as, when healthy, Harvin is as versatile a weapon as there is in the NFL.  No doubting the kids explosion and big play ability though.


    I don't think Swope is incapable of playing on the outside, but he plays primarily out of the slow or stack formations.  Agree, he's one of my favorite WR's too, believe he was the 2nd player I profiled back on tab 3 of this thread (Dion Jordan was the first), ha.  Bellow is what I posted on 9/5 (I was a bit off on my speed projection, ha):

     

    Prospect Profile

    WR Ryan Swope- 6-0 206- Texas A&M

    Positives:

    *Projects as an excellent slot WR at the NFL level with the size to play outside
    *Good size
    *Hands catcher / excellent hands
    *Good fluidity and RAC ability
    *Good effort player
    *Solid route runner
    *Tempos routes extremely well and knows how to set up his man
    *Solid production against good teams
    *Solid overall career production / 180-2204-16
    *Has some kick return experience
    *Has played special teams

    Negatvies:

    *Doesn't possess elite speed (likely 4.5+ range)
    *Not an elite athlete
    *Likely not a game breaker at the NFL level

    Projection:

    I like this kid a lot... he won't wow you with speed/athleticism, but profiles and an excellent fit for NE's offense due to his route running, his ability get open and catch the football while pickiong up yards after the catch... he's also used frequently in bubble screens/isolation plays.  With the uncertain future of WW, the inconsistency Julian Edelman and the new/yet to produce Greg Salas, slot could be a position to target in the 2013 draft and I think Swope profiles as a solid Day 2 kid.  I'll be interested to see how he performs against better overall comp now that Texas A&M is in the SEC.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You may or may not have been. He might have run a high 4.3 in pajamas but does not mean he doesn't play the game closer to 4.5 as you suggested.

    I have no idea but you never know.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to speedster81's comment:

    Ideally, this is what the Pats do in the offseason:

    FA:

    1) Make a play for Keenan Lewis CB - Pittsburgh. Anyone watched the two games the Steelers and Ravens played will see what a great job Pittsburgh's corners did in press man vs torrey smith and co. Its no wonder the steelers were able to beat Baltimore in Baltimore with their 3rd string QB. Pay particular attention to the the job Lewis did against Anquan Boldin. He made Boldin look outmatched in a way I have never seen before. At 6ft 210pounds, good strength and elite speed, Lewis can play press man and win against any type of corner.

    2) Sign DT Desmond Bryant or Randy Starks - Both of these guys give you elite Run Defense and Consistent Pressure from the inside. Signing a rookie DT and expecting him to dominate against NFL Veteran O Line men who have  been in Professional Strength and Conditioning programs for years in simply not realistic. It usually takes rookie DT's a few seasons to start playing up to their potential.

    3) Sign Brian Hartline - The case for an outside WR has already been well made on this board. No use beating a dead horse.

    4) Sign Kaluka Maiava OLB Cleveland - Excellent coverage Linebacker who can play on all downs. The past season the stats showed we actually did well covering the opposing No 1 and 2 receivers but ranked close to bottom of the league against The 3 Receiver, RB and TE. Improving speed and athleticism at MLB and SLB would go a long way towards fixing this. I would move Hightower to MLB and PLAY Maiava at SLB. Spikes would rotate with Hightower as needed.

    5) Resign Welker!

    6) Bring back Andre Carter as part of the DE rotation. Had a good season at Oakland and is even further Removed fom his Quad Injury. John Abraham and Dwight Freeney would also be  good albeit more expensive options.

    Draft:

    2a) Pick 1: Trade down to late 30's or early 40's and get an extra 3rder.Pick Larry Warford G Kentucky : Elite run blocking on the level of Chance Warmack and good pass protector. Very good feet and amazing strength. Won his matchups this season against all the DT's he went against. He beat Shariff Floyd, Dominated Sheldon Richardson and Shut out John Jenkins. Going into the season, my hope is that the Pats focus on improving their Perimeter passing game and continue improving their running game. Warford IMO would be a great improvement over Dan Conolly especially in those 3rd and Short situations where we seemed to struggle in the Conference Championship game. Warford has ALL Pro Potential.

    2b) Pick 2: #59: Justin Hunter WR Tennesee: Coming back from an ACL, he had a decent season but I expect him to get better this year as he is further removed from the ACL injury. At 6-4, 196, he has really good body control,leaping ability and route running. Has had a few issues with drops this season but is an issue that can be fixed. Hunter was a consensus first round pick going into this past season.

    3a) Zaviar Gooden LB Missouri: 4.47 40 and superb lateral agility make Gooden an intriguing option as a 3 down player. Expect the Pats to look at lighter LBers like Gooden and Arthur Brown in this draft in an attempt to fix their pass defense when in base. Gooden can keep up with Wide Receivers in the slot, Man up against RB's such as spiller, Bush and Rice in the passing game and even play faster Te's like Hernandez in man coverage. What he may give up in the run game due to his smaller stature can be masked by playing behind bigger DT's like Wilfork. It was widely rumored the Pats were very interested in Lavonte David and Demario Davis in last years draft.

    3b) Marcus Latimore RB South Carolina: Value pick. If he returns to pre injury form then this is undoubtedly the biggest steal of the draft. Lattimore, Ridley and Vereen running behind a Line of Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Warford and Cannon would be extremely formidable . As Brady grows older, its only fair that others should carry more of the responsibility for the teams success much like the late 90's Broncos did with Terell Davis carrying the team to back to back Super Bowls.

    7a) Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky.

    7b) Kenny Tate OLB Maryland.

     



    I am glad that you mentioned Warford. I am mixed about picking up an OLman this year, but I like that kid a lot.

     
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