***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to speedster81's comment:

    Ideally, this is what the Pats do in the offseason:

    FA:

    1) Make a play for Keenan Lewis CB - Pittsburgh. Anyone watched the two games the Steelers and Ravens played will see what a great job Pittsburgh's corners did in press man vs torrey smith and co. Its no wonder the steelers were able to beat Baltimore in Baltimore with their 3rd string QB. Pay particular attention to the the job Lewis did against Anquan Boldin. He made Boldin look outmatched in a way I have never seen before. At 6ft 210pounds, good strength and elite speed, Lewis can play press man and win against any type of corner.

    2) Sign DT Desmond Bryant or Randy Starks - Both of these guys give you elite Run Defense and Consistent Pressure from the inside. Signing a rookie DT and expecting him to dominate against NFL Veteran O Line men who have  been in Professional Strength and Conditioning programs for years in simply not realistic. It usually takes rookie DT's a few seasons to start playing up to their potential.

    3) Sign Brian Hartline - The case for an outside WR has already been well made on this board. No use beating a dead horse.

    4) Sign Kaluka Maiava OLB Cleveland - Excellent coverage Linebacker who can play on all downs. The past season the stats showed we actually did well covering the opposing No 1 and 2 receivers but ranked close to bottom of the league against The 3 Receiver, RB and TE. Improving speed and athleticism at MLB and SLB would go a long way towards fixing this. I would move Hightower to MLB and PLAY Maiava at SLB. Spikes would rotate with Hightower as needed.

    5) Resign Welker!

    6) Bring back Andre Carter as part of the DE rotation. Had a good season at Oakland and is even further Removed fom his Quad Injury. John Abraham and Dwight Freeney would also be  good albeit more expensive options.

    Draft:

    2a) Pick 1: Trade down to late 30's or early 40's and get an extra 3rder.Pick Larry Warford G Kentucky : Elite run blocking on the level of Chance Warmack and good pass protector. Very good feet and amazing strength. Won his matchups this season against all the DT's he went against. He beat Shariff Floyd, Dominated Sheldon Richardson and Shut out John Jenkins. Going into the season, my hope is that the Pats focus on improving their Perimeter passing game and continue improving their running game. Warford IMO would be a great improvement over Dan Conolly especially in those 3rd and Short situations where we seemed to struggle in the Conference Championship game. Warford has ALL Pro Potential.

    2b) Pick 2: #59: Justin Hunter WR Tennesee: Coming back from an ACL, he had a decent season but I expect him to get better this year as he is further removed from the ACL injury. At 6-4, 196, he has really good body control,leaping ability and route running. Has had a few issues with drops this season but is an issue that can be fixed. Hunter was a consensus first round pick going into this past season.

    3a) Zaviar Gooden LB Missouri: 4.47 40 and superb lateral agility make Gooden an intriguing option as a 3 down player. Expect the Pats to look at lighter LBers like Gooden and Arthur Brown in this draft in an attempt to fix their pass defense when in base. Gooden can keep up with Wide Receivers in the slot, Man up against RB's such as spiller, Bush and Rice in the passing game and even play faster Te's like Hernandez in man coverage. What he may give up in the run game due to his smaller stature can be masked by playing behind bigger DT's like Wilfork. It was widely rumored the Pats were very interested in Lavonte David and Demario Davis in last years draft.

    3b) Marcus Latimore RB South Carolina: Value pick. If he returns to pre injury form then this is undoubtedly the biggest steal of the draft. Lattimore, Ridley and Vereen running behind a Line of Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Warford and Cannon would be extremely formidable . As Brady grows older, its only fair that others should carry more of the responsibility for the teams success much like the late 90's Broncos did with Terell Davis carrying the team to back to back Super Bowls.

    7a) Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky.

    7b) Kenny Tate OLB Maryland.

     



    I can't say I agree with everything here, but man you gave some real good analysis on some of the free agents. Very good stuff.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Is it just me or does Keenan Allen look like he may turn out to be an average player? Bought a draft magazine and they had him ranked number one at the receiver spot, with the kid from Tennessee second. To me the kid from Tennessee looks like a better player with more upside. It just doesn't look to me like Allen will get much separation against an NFL corner or do much after the catch. On the other hand Patterson looks like he may be special with a little work.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

     

    i said that all year,

    and then had rhodes as a pick too :) unique big press man (ie seattle defense we need to coverrt to).

    but if we dotn get a legit pass rusher in fa, thats #1 need in draft for me even over getting a 6 3" 215 stud cb

     




    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 

     




    I agree that tagging Talib makes the most sense, allowing them to retain a player that clearly made the D better, with a relatively low risk deal.

     

    A couple to Rd 3 CB's to keep on your radar are Houston's DJ Hayden (who I have in Rd 2, but he is coming back from a freak injury that almost cost him his life), who'd come at a relative bargain, IMO and UConn's Dwayne Gratz... another size/speed/quicks/strength kid.

    The thought of Austin is intriguing, though another alternative would be to sign an outside WR like Brian Hartline in FA, then draft a slot kid like Swope or Ace Sanders on Day 2... maybe double up on WR with an other Welker-type player in Mizzou's TJ Moe who won't beat you in a sprint, but is the quick footed, sudden, COD type that they like.

     



    I would think you could line Swope up outside too?  He's one of my favorite WRs in this draft.  Austin is just a human missile, IMO.  I think he's better than Percy Harvin without the migraine issues.  Rumor was BB was all over Harvin if he had lasted to 23 but of course MIN took him at 22 which started us trading back and back until we eventually landed Chung at 34.

     

    Harvin is taller (5'11") and slower 4.4 than Austin (5'9") 4.34.  Moe is an interesting cat, impressed with a 3.96 shuttle and a 6.53 cone, both tops.  Yeah, we really don't need to spend a 1st round pick on a slot receiver. But chances are Welker will be back on a 3-4 year deal as I don't think his value would be as great away from Brady and I heard there won't be a lot of money being thrown around in free agency this year.

     

     

    For what it's worth, Harvin ran a 4.39.  It's yet to be seen if Austin is better than Harvin as, when healthy, Harvin is as versatile a weapon as there is in the NFL.  No doubting the kids explosion and big play ability though.


    I don't think Swope is incapable of playing on the outside, but he plays primarily out of the slow or stack formations.  Agree, he's one of my favorite WR's too, believe he was the 2nd player I profiled back on tab 3 of this thread (Dion Jordan was the first), ha.  Bellow is what I posted on 9/5 (I was a bit off on my speed projection, ha):

     

    Prospect Profile

    WR Ryan Swope- 6-0 206- Texas A&M

    Positives:

    *Projects as an excellent slot WR at the NFL level with the size to play outside
    *Good size
    *Hands catcher / excellent hands
    *Good fluidity and RAC ability
    *Good effort player
    *Solid route runner
    *Tempos routes extremely well and knows how to set up his man
    *Solid production against good teams
    *Solid overall career production / 180-2204-16
    *Has some kick return experience
    *Has played special teams

    Negatvies:

    *Doesn't possess elite speed (likely 4.5+ range)
    *Not an elite athlete
    *Likely not a game breaker at the NFL level

    Projection:

    I like this kid a lot... he won't wow you with speed/athleticism, but profiles and an excellent fit for NE's offense due to his route running, his ability get open and catch the football while pickiong up yards after the catch... he's also used frequently in bubble screens/isolation plays.  With the uncertain future of WW, the inconsistency Julian Edelman and the new/yet to produce Greg Salas, slot could be a position to target in the 2013 draft and I think Swope profiles as a solid Day 2 kid.  I'll be interested to see how he performs against better overall comp now that Texas A&M is in the SEC.

     

     



    You may or may not have been. He might have run a high 4.3 in pajamas but does not mean he doesn't play the game closer to 4.5 as you suggested.

    I have no idea but you never know.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, good point, looks more like a 4.5 player on the field, but def has some quick twitch to him and sneaky deep speed... saw a play against Arkansas where he dropped a double move on the S which allowed him to get behind the D, they weren't going to catch him from there... which is a little different then just lining up on the outside and flat running buy a guy. 

    Kid is also a very effective blocker, which can be underrated.

    I see a little WW to his game to as he'll get to the top of his route and is quickly able to move laterally (in either direction) in the short area to seperate from the defender or to find the soft spot in zone... love his toughness in traffic and ball skills too, man I hope he ends up in Foxboro, haha.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

     

    i said that all year,

    and then had rhodes as a pick too :) unique big press man (ie seattle defense we need to coverrt to).

    but if we dotn get a legit pass rusher in fa, thats #1 need in draft for me even over getting a 6 3" 215 stud cb

     




    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 

     




    I agree that tagging Talib makes the most sense, allowing them to retain a player that clearly made the D better, with a relatively low risk deal.

     

    A couple to Rd 3 CB's to keep on your radar are Houston's DJ Hayden (who I have in Rd 2, but he is coming back from a freak injury that almost cost him his life), who'd come at a relative bargain, IMO and UConn's Dwayne Gratz... another size/speed/quicks/strength kid.

    The thought of Austin is intriguing, though another alternative would be to sign an outside WR like Brian Hartline in FA, then draft a slot kid like Swope or Ace Sanders on Day 2... maybe double up on WR with an other Welker-type player in Mizzou's TJ Moe who won't beat you in a sprint, but is the quick footed, sudden, COD type that they like.

     



    I would think you could line Swope up outside too?  He's one of my favorite WRs in this draft.  Austin is just a human missile, IMO.  I think he's better than Percy Harvin without the migraine issues.  Rumor was BB was all over Harvin if he had lasted to 23 but of course MIN took him at 22 which started us trading back and back until we eventually landed Chung at 34.

     

    Harvin is taller (5'11") and slower 4.4 than Austin (5'9") 4.34.  Moe is an interesting cat, impressed with a 3.96 shuttle and a 6.53 cone, both tops.  Yeah, we really don't need to spend a 1st round pick on a slot receiver. But chances are Welker will be back on a 3-4 year deal as I don't think his value would be as great away from Brady and I heard there won't be a lot of money being thrown around in free agency this year.

     

     

    For what it's worth, Harvin ran a 4.39.  It's yet to be seen if Austin is better than Harvin as, when healthy, Harvin is as versatile a weapon as there is in the NFL.  No doubting the kids explosion and big play ability though.


    I don't think Swope is incapable of playing on the outside, but he plays primarily out of the slow or stack formations.  Agree, he's one of my favorite WR's too, believe he was the 2nd player I profiled back on tab 3 of this thread (Dion Jordan was the first), ha.  Bellow is what I posted on 9/5 (I was a bit off on my speed projection, ha):

     

    Prospect Profile

    WR Ryan Swope- 6-0 206- Texas A&M

    Positives:

    *Projects as an excellent slot WR at the NFL level with the size to play outside
    *Good size
    *Hands catcher / excellent hands
    *Good fluidity and RAC ability
    *Good effort player
    *Solid route runner
    *Tempos routes extremely well and knows how to set up his man
    *Solid production against good teams
    *Solid overall career production / 180-2204-16
    *Has some kick return experience
    *Has played special teams

    Negatvies:

    *Doesn't possess elite speed (likely 4.5+ range)
    *Not an elite athlete
    *Likely not a game breaker at the NFL level

    Projection:

    I like this kid a lot... he won't wow you with speed/athleticism, but profiles and an excellent fit for NE's offense due to his route running, his ability get open and catch the football while pickiong up yards after the catch... he's also used frequently in bubble screens/isolation plays.  With the uncertain future of WW, the inconsistency Julian Edelman and the new/yet to produce Greg Salas, slot could be a position to target in the 2013 draft and I think Swope profiles as a solid Day 2 kid.  I'll be interested to see how he performs against better overall comp now that Texas A&M is in the SEC.

     

     

     



    You may or may not have been. He might have run a high 4.3 in pajamas but does not mean he doesn't play the game closer to 4.5 as you suggested.

     

    I have no idea but you never know.




    Yeah, good point, looks more like a 4.5 player on the field, but def has some quick twitch to him and sneaky deep speed... saw a play against Arkansas where he dropped a double move on the S which allowed him to get behind the D, they weren't going to catch him from there... which is a little different then just lining up on the outside and flat running buy a guy. 

    Kid is also a very effective blocker, which can be underrated.

    I see a little WW to his game to as he'll get to the top of his route and is quickly able to move laterally (in either direction) in the short area to seperate from the defender or to find the soft spot in zone... love his toughness in traffic and ball skills too, man I hope he ends up in Foxboro, haha.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree. I couldn't believe this kid ran a 4.3, but when you watch his highlights when he catches the ball behind the defense they don't catch him. Yet he doesn't look like the 4.3 type that will get deep on a team. I'd take him at the beginning of the second round and feel real good about it - he looks like a guy that will catch 70 balls a year and never get much credit for it.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    Is it just me or does Keenan Allen look like he may turn out to be an average player? Bought a draft magazine and they had him ranked number one at the receiver spot, with the kid from Tennessee second. To me the kid from Tennessee looks like a better player with more upside. It just doesn't look to me like Allen will get much separation against an NFL corner or do much after the catch. On the other hand Patterson looks like he may be special with a little work.



    The more I watch of him and the more I see him falling the less I want of him. I agree with your assessment. He's agod overall player but te problem is he's good across the board and not great at anything in particular. He's big but not particularly big for a #1 WR, he's not really speedy, he has good hands but not great hands, he's good after the catch but isn't the most ellusive, tight hips, and not the best route runner in the draft.

    The more I look at this group the more I'm realizing there aren't any standout must have talents and really you could argue to draft a dozen WR's between the late 1st to late 3rd range. Personally at this point I wouldn't touch a WR in the 1st because you can get the sametalent in the back of the 2nd and if I was going to target someone it wouldn't be a good all around WR. I either want speed or size to go along with leadership and work ethic because you can't teach any of those. I've had my white board up for a while and I started taken names off the list because they don't meet those requirements. For me this is a good FA WR market I'd get a couple of vets in Brady's later years and instead start planning for a future without Brady by fortifying the D, which will not only help Brady but help the transition from Brady to the next QB a lot easier

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Is it just me or does Keenan Allen look like he may turn out to be an average player? Bought a draft magazine and they had him ranked number one at the receiver spot, with the kid from Tennessee second. To me the kid from Tennessee looks like a better player with more upside. It just doesn't look to me like Allen will get much separation against an NFL corner or do much after the catch. On the other hand Patterson looks like he may be special with a little work.

     



    The more I watch of him and the more I see him falling the less I want of him. I agree with your assessment. He's agod overall player but te problem is he's good across the board and not great at anything in particular. He's big but not particularly big for a #1 WR, he's not really speedy, he has good hands but not great hands, he's good after the catch but isn't the most ellusive, tight hips, and not the best route runner in the draft.

     

    The more I look at this group the more I'm realizing there aren't any standout must have talents and really you could argue to draft a dozen WR's between the late 1st to late 3rd range. Personally at this point I wouldn't touch a WR in the 1st because you can get the sametalent in the back of the 2nd and if I was going to target someone it wouldn't be a good all around WR. I either want speed or size to go along with leadership and work ethic because you can't teach any of those. I've had my white board up for a while and I started taken names off the list because they don't meet those requirements. For me this is a good FA WR market I'd get a couple of vets in Brady's later years and instead start planning for a future without Brady by fortifying the D, which will not only help Brady but help the transition from Brady to the next QB a lot easier



    I just started getting into the draft stuff for fun, and when watching this kid I kept saying to myself...ok now you caught the ball...lets see you do something with it. And he tries to turn upfield to get more, but that special speed/qualities just don't look they're there. I mean he looks like he's got decent size, but nothing special. I just kind of see him as maybe a decent outside guy that defensive coordinators won't really have to worry about. Those guys shouldn't go in the first round, but who knows?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to speedster81's comment:

     

    Ideally, this is what the Pats do in the offseason:

    FA:

    1) Make a play for Keenan Lewis CB - Pittsburgh. Anyone watched the two games the Steelers and Ravens played will see what a great job Pittsburgh's corners did in press man vs torrey smith and co. Its no wonder the steelers were able to beat Baltimore in Baltimore with their 3rd string QB. Pay particular attention to the the job Lewis did against Anquan Boldin. He made Boldin look outmatched in a way I have never seen before. At 6ft 210pounds, good strength and elite speed, Lewis can play press man and win against any type of corner.

    2) Sign DT Desmond Bryant or Randy Starks - Both of these guys give you elite Run Defense and Consistent Pressure from the inside. Signing a rookie DT and expecting him to dominate against NFL Veteran O Line men who have  been in Professional Strength and Conditioning programs for years in simply not realistic. It usually takes rookie DT's a few seasons to start playing up to their potential.

    3) Sign Brian Hartline - The case for an outside WR has already been well made on this board. No use beating a dead horse.

    4) Sign Kaluka Maiava OLB Cleveland - Excellent coverage Linebacker who can play on all downs. The past season the stats showed we actually did well covering the opposing No 1 and 2 receivers but ranked close to bottom of the league against The 3 Receiver, RB and TE. Improving speed and athleticism at MLB and SLB would go a long way towards fixing this. I would move Hightower to MLB and PLAY Maiava at SLB. Spikes would rotate with Hightower as needed.

    5) Resign Welker!

    6) Bring back Andre Carter as part of the DE rotation. Had a good season at Oakland and is even further Removed fom his Quad Injury. John Abraham and Dwight Freeney would also be  good albeit more expensive options.

    Draft:

    2a) Pick 1: Trade down to late 30's or early 40's and get an extra 3rder.Pick Larry Warford G Kentucky : Elite run blocking on the level of Chance Warmack and good pass protector. Very good feet and amazing strength. Won his matchups this season against all the DT's he went against. He beat Shariff Floyd, Dominated Sheldon Richardson and Shut out John Jenkins. Going into the season, my hope is that the Pats focus on improving their Perimeter passing game and continue improving their running game. Warford IMO would be a great improvement over Dan Conolly especially in those 3rd and Short situations where we seemed to struggle in the Conference Championship game. Warford has ALL Pro Potential.

    2b) Pick 2: #59: Justin Hunter WR Tennesee: Coming back from an ACL, he had a decent season but I expect him to get better this year as he is further removed from the ACL injury. At 6-4, 196, he has really good body control,leaping ability and route running. Has had a few issues with drops this season but is an issue that can be fixed. Hunter was a consensus first round pick going into this past season.

    3a) Zaviar Gooden LB Missouri: 4.47 40 and superb lateral agility make Gooden an intriguing option as a 3 down player. Expect the Pats to look at lighter LBers like Gooden and Arthur Brown in this draft in an attempt to fix their pass defense when in base. Gooden can keep up with Wide Receivers in the slot, Man up against RB's such as spiller, Bush and Rice in the passing game and even play faster Te's like Hernandez in man coverage. What he may give up in the run game due to his smaller stature can be masked by playing behind bigger DT's like Wilfork. It was widely rumored the Pats were very interested in Lavonte David and Demario Davis in last years draft.

    3b) Marcus Latimore RB South Carolina: Value pick. If he returns to pre injury form then this is undoubtedly the biggest steal of the draft. Lattimore, Ridley and Vereen running behind a Line of Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Warford and Cannon would be extremely formidable . As Brady grows older, its only fair that others should carry more of the responsibility for the teams success much like the late 90's Broncos did with Terell Davis carrying the team to back to back Super Bowls.

    7a) Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky.

    7b) Kenny Tate OLB Maryland.

     

     



    Hey Speed,

     

    I like the detail and level of analysis.

    Things I like:

    1.  I think Keenan Lewis is a solid under the radar type CB.

    2.  Hartline is a kid I like and one that may make the most sense on the FA market from a value perspective... gives them that big WR presence that can operate outside the #'s and has some sneaky big play ability.

    3.  Keeping Welker.

    4.  Adding veteran talent along the DL though they'll need to do some background work on Bryant http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/24/raiders-desmond-bryant-arrested/

    5.  Quanterus Smith as a late round/upside pick (assuming he's available).

    Neutral:

    1.  Lattimore could be good value in Rd 3, assuming bigger needs are addressed.

    2.  Hunter does have intriguing size/athleticism/big play ability, there are kids that I like better, but it'd be tough to NOT like this pick.

    Things that I don't like:

    1.  I see the value of adding a hybrid type player, but not (2) of them (Maiava, is quite undersized at 6-0 229 pounds... their regular backers are all 240+)... would rather mix in a pure SS type (I know BB likes them interchangeable, so a versatile kid is key), or at least a player that brings some physicality to the backend of the defense.  Gooden is an athletic kid that moves well, but looks like more of a finesse player on tape.  They really have no intimidating presence to speak off in the secondary.

    2.  Sure hoping their first pick isn't an OG, unless his name is Chance Warmack (not happening) or Jon Cooper (possible) Warford's a big talented kid, but I think his skillset/movement ability translates better to a power scheme like Pittsburgh's vs. NE's which values quicker, more agile type OG's.  Would prefer a Brian Schwenke or David Quessenberry or Jeff Baca or Hugh Thornton etc. between Rd's 3-4... or maybe a Tanner Hawkinson (from Charlie Weis' system at Kansas) later on Day 3.

    3.  Would prefer to address the defense with at least one of their first two picks (i.e. a DT, edge rusher or DB).

     

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

    I mentioned that I like Rhodes. But I doubt the Pats have a realistic shot, he sort of has to fall a little bit. I like swope and could see him as a Shipley/Decker type wr. My main issue with some of these mocks is that I am seeing too many players ( Lattimore) that could fall to the pats because of injuries. I'd rather grab some draftee on his way up the board than player who is on his way down.  TaLib is the big issue Imo because CB is the big need if the pats don't sign him and Dennard misses time. Also if Mallet is traded the Pats will draft a qb in first 4 rounds.



    I had a man crush on Decker back in 2010, but NE came away with Taylor Price (3) picks later, so all is well, haha... Decker is more of a pure outside WR based on size (6-3 218) and skill set.  Decker, Golden Tate and Randall Cobb are the (3) WR's that I've wanted most since we've been doing the Draft Thread.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I wonder if Justin Hunter will go late first? To me he looks like he has some serious upside and at his size may turn into something. Is it me, or does he kind of look like Moss? He's got that length, yet that ability to move like a smaller guy.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I wonder if Justin Hunter will go late first? To me he looks like he has some serious upside and at his size may turn into something. Is it me, or does he kind of look like Moss? He's got that length, yet that ability to move like a smaller guy.

     



    I agree that Hunter could become a special NFL WR. He was projected as a top 10 pick by some experts prior to the 2012 season, but a combination of injury issues & being upstaged by teammate Patterson hurt his stock. Getting him late second would be a gift, but I don't think I like him enough to spend a 1st on him...

     

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

     

    i said that all year,

    and then had rhodes as a pick too :) unique big press man (ie seattle defense we need to coverrt to).

    but if we dotn get a legit pass rusher in fa, thats #1 need in draft for me even over getting a 6 3" 215 stud cb

     




    Was just reading up on Reiss' blog.  Tagging Talib is starting to make the most sense.  We lock him up for $10.8MM then try to get a long-term deal done to aleivate that hit.  Word is Pats are 9th in most cap space available so this would be a good insurance policy. 

     


    If we lose Welker, I would have to move Tavon Austin to the top of my board.


    If we lose Vollmer, we have Cannon who should be experienced enough to start but there are other F/A options at RT and we could always address in the 2nd round.  Kyle Long if he's there.

    We could then use our 3rd on a CB but I would not be surprised to see us add a F/A CB. 

     




    I agree that tagging Talib makes the most sense, allowing them to retain a player that clearly made the D better, with a relatively low risk deal.

     

    A couple to Rd 3 CB's to keep on your radar are Houston's DJ Hayden (who I have in Rd 2, but he is coming back from a freak injury that almost cost him his life), who'd come at a relative bargain, IMO and UConn's Dwayne Gratz... another size/speed/quicks/strength kid.

    The thought of Austin is intriguing, though another alternative would be to sign an outside WR like Brian Hartline in FA, then draft a slot kid like Swope or Ace Sanders on Day 2... maybe double up on WR with an other Welker-type player in Mizzou's TJ Moe who won't beat you in a sprint, but is the quick footed, sudden, COD type that they like.

     



    I would think you could line Swope up outside too?  He's one of my favorite WRs in this draft.  Austin is just a human missile, IMO.  I think he's better than Percy Harvin without the migraine issues.  Rumor was BB was all over Harvin if he had lasted to 23 but of course MIN took him at 22 which started us trading back and back until we eventually landed Chung at 34.

     

    Harvin is taller (5'11") and slower 4.4 than Austin (5'9") 4.34.  Moe is an interesting cat, impressed with a 3.96 shuttle and a 6.53 cone, both tops.  Yeah, we really don't need to spend a 1st round pick on a slot receiver. But chances are Welker will be back on a 3-4 year deal as I don't think his value would be as great away from Brady and I heard there won't be a lot of money being thrown around in free agency this year.

    For what it's worth, Harvin ran a 4.39.  It's yet to be seen if Austin is better than Harvin as, when healthy, Harvin is as versatile a weapon as there is in the NFL.  No doubting the kids explosion and big play ability though.


    I don't think Swope is incapable of playing on the outside, but he plays primarily out of the slow or stack formations.  Agree, he's one of my favorite WR's too, believe he was the 2nd player I profiled back on tab 3 of this thread (Dion Jordan was the first), ha.  Bellow is what I posted on 9/5 (I was a bit off on my speed projection, ha):

     

    Prospect Profile

    WR Ryan Swope- 6-0 206- Texas A&M

    Positives:

    *Projects as an excellent slot WR at the NFL level with the size to play outside
    *Good size
    *Hands catcher / excellent hands
    *Good fluidity and RAC ability
    *Good effort player
    *Solid route runner
    *Tempos routes extremely well and knows how to set up his man
    *Solid production against good teams
    *Solid overall career production / 180-2204-16
    *Has some kick return experience
    *Has played special teams

    Negatvies:

    *Doesn't possess elite speed (likely 4.5+ range)
    *Not an elite athlete
    *Likely not a game breaker at the NFL level

    Projection:

    I like this kid a lot... he won't wow you with speed/athleticism, but profiles and an excellent fit for NE's offense due to his route running, his ability get open and catch the football while pickiong up yards after the catch... he's also used frequently in bubble screens/isolation plays.  With the uncertain future of WW, the inconsistency Julian Edelman and the new/yet to produce Greg Salas, slot could be a position to target in the 2013 draft and I think Swope profiles as a solid Day 2 kid.  I'll be interested to see how he performs against better overall comp now that Texas A&M is in the SEC.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah you called it except for the athletic part, lol, as he wow'ed everyone.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Is it just me or does Keenan Allen look like he may turn out to be an average player? Bought a draft magazine and they had him ranked number one at the receiver spot, with the kid from Tennessee second. To me the kid from Tennessee looks like a better player with more upside. It just doesn't look to me like Allen will get much separation against an NFL corner or do much after the catch. On the other hand Patterson looks like he may be special with a little work.

     



    The more I watch of him and the more I see him falling the less I want of him. I agree with your assessment. He's agod overall player but te problem is he's good across the board and not great at anything in particular. He's big but not particularly big for a #1 WR, he's not really speedy, he has good hands but not great hands, he's good after the catch but isn't the most ellusive, tight hips, and not the best route runner in the draft.

     

    The more I look at this group the more I'm realizing there aren't any standout must have talents and really you could argue to draft a dozen WR's between the late 1st to late 3rd range. Personally at this point I wouldn't touch a WR in the 1st because you can get the sametalent in the back of the 2nd and if I was going to target someone it wouldn't be a good all around WR. I either want speed or size to go along with leadership and work ethic because you can't teach any of those. I've had my white board up for a while and I started taken names off the list because they don't meet those requirements. For me this is a good FA WR market I'd get a couple of vets in Brady's later years and instead start planning for a future without Brady by fortifying the D, which will not only help Brady but help the transition from Brady to the next QB a lot easier



    i agree with the end of rd 2 or rd 3 wr only if i get the big bodied and speedy with big hands

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I wonder if Justin Hunter will go late first? To me he looks like he has some serious upside and at his size may turn into something. Is it me, or does he kind of look like Moss? He's got that length, yet that ability to move like a smaller guy.



    mid 2nd ish

    trade bakc a few get carradine

    up in rd 2 for pick of wr or wait til bottom to who falls

    cb safety or o line in rd 3

    #1 and #2 cb in fa and pas rusher, maybe safety too.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    I'm fine with Talib, Dennard, Arrington and Ras-I... with the safety depth to move McCourty back if needed and a veteran added at the min or a 6th rd pick used on depth



    i inlcude talib as adding a #1 (and didnt see talib on yoru list).still like to add a #2 in fa want a #1 (talib or other, #2,  dennard and  dowling, injuries, up down years etc. 4 guys who can play.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to braunzy's comment:

    I think the biggest Riser in the draft will be Carradine. I think he is very high on the patriots board. And we would be lucky if he "falls" to us. I believe he fills a need as a LDE and would be great fit for the pats.  

    The way the accelerated ACL rehab process is going with these football players, I am not real worried about his knee for the 2013-2014 season.

    He is my number one pick for the pats and think he would do VERY well here



    reading my posts this week or my mind?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to speedster81's comment:

     

    Ideally, this is what the Pats do in the offseason:

    FA:

    1) Make a play for Keenan Lewis CB - Pittsburgh. Anyone watched the two games the Steelers and Ravens played will see what a great job Pittsburgh's corners did in press man vs torrey smith and co. Its no wonder the steelers were able to beat Baltimore in Baltimore with their 3rd string QB. Pay particular attention to the the job Lewis did against Anquan Boldin. He made Boldin look outmatched in a way I have never seen before. At 6ft 210pounds, good strength and elite speed, Lewis can play press man and win against any type of corner.

    2) Sign DT Desmond Bryant or Randy Starks - Both of these guys give you elite Run Defense and Consistent Pressure from the inside. Signing a rookie DT and expecting him to dominate against NFL Veteran O Line men who have  been in Professional Strength and Conditioning programs for years in simply not realistic. It usually takes rookie DT's a few seasons to start playing up to their potential.

    3) Sign Brian Hartline - The case for an outside WR has already been well made on this board. No use beating a dead horse.

    4) Sign Kaluka Maiava OLB Cleveland - Excellent coverage Linebacker who can play on all downs. The past season the stats showed we actually did well covering the opposing No 1 and 2 receivers but ranked close to bottom of the league against The 3 Receiver, RB and TE. Improving speed and athleticism at MLB and SLB would go a long way towards fixing this. I would move Hightower to MLB and PLAY Maiava at SLB. Spikes would rotate with Hightower as needed.

    5) Resign Welker!

    6) Bring back Andre Carter as part of the DE rotation. Had a good season at Oakland and is even further Removed fom his Quad Injury. John Abraham and Dwight Freeney would also be  good albeit more expensive options.

    Draft:

    2a) Pick 1: Trade down to late 30's or early 40's and get an extra 3rder.Pick Larry Warford G Kentucky : Elite run blocking on the level of Chance Warmack and good pass protector. Very good feet and amazing strength. Won his matchups this season against all the DT's he went against. He beat Shariff Floyd, Dominated Sheldon Richardson and Shut out John Jenkins. Going into the season, my hope is that the Pats focus on improving their Perimeter passing game and continue improving their running game. Warford IMO would be a great improvement over Dan Conolly especially in those 3rd and Short situations where we seemed to struggle in the Conference Championship game. Warford has ALL Pro Potential.

    2b) Pick 2: #59: Justin Hunter WR Tennesee: Coming back from an ACL, he had a decent season but I expect him to get better this year as he is further removed from the ACL injury. At 6-4, 196, he has really good body control,leaping ability and route running. Has had a few issues with drops this season but is an issue that can be fixed. Hunter was a consensus first round pick going into this past season.

    3a) Zaviar Gooden LB Missouri: 4.47 40 and superb lateral agility make Gooden an intriguing option as a 3 down player. Expect the Pats to look at lighter LBers like Gooden and Arthur Brown in this draft in an attempt to fix their pass defense when in base. Gooden can keep up with Wide Receivers in the slot, Man up against RB's such as spiller, Bush and Rice in the passing game and even play faster Te's like Hernandez in man coverage. What he may give up in the run game due to his smaller stature can be masked by playing behind bigger DT's like Wilfork. It was widely rumored the Pats were very interested in Lavonte David and Demario Davis in last years draft.

    3b) Marcus Latimore RB South Carolina: Value pick. If he returns to pre injury form then this is undoubtedly the biggest steal of the draft. Lattimore, Ridley and Vereen running behind a Line of Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Warford and Cannon would be extremely formidable . As Brady grows older, its only fair that others should carry more of the responsibility for the teams success much like the late 90's Broncos did with Terell Davis carrying the team to back to back Super Bowls.

    7a) Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky.

    7b) Kenny Tate OLB Maryland.

     

     



    I am glad that you mentioned Warford. I am mixed about picking up an OLman this year, but I like that kid a lot.

     



    i brought him into my list and teh board bout 4-6 weeks or so ago. agree with you one mixed abotu whether to go o line this year. if we have another pick via mallet, we should do it, out line isnt good enough

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Starks and Melton both tagged. This makes the quality of DT's in FA very thin. Combine that with the deep DT draft it's looking increasing more friendly to get a DT with #29 then to try to go the FA route or later in the draft

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

     

    I mentioned that I like Rhodes. But I doubt the Pats have a realistic shot, he sort of has to fall a little bit. I like swope and could see him as a Shipley/Decker type wr. My main issue with some of these mocks is that I am seeing too many players ( Lattimore) that could fall to the pats because of injuries. I'd rather grab some draftee on his way up the board than player who is on his way down.  TaLib is the big issue Imo because CB is the big need if the pats don't sign him and Dennard misses time. Also if Mallet is traded the Pats will draft a qb in first 4 rounds.

     



    I had a man crush on Decker back in 2010, but NE came away with Taylor Price (3) picks later, so all is well, haha... Decker is more of a pure outside WR based on size (6-3 218) and skill set.  Decker, Golden Tate and Randall Cobb are the (3) WR's that I've wanted most since we've been doing the Draft Thread.

     



    There was a big run on WR's that startered in that round just a bit before the Pats picked. They were left with the leftovers.

    Decker and Thomas also had the two top, or two of the top, wonderlic scores that year for WR's. You think talent + wonderlic is just a coincidence McD drafted them both that year?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

     

    I mentioned that I like Rhodes. But I doubt the Pats have a realistic shot, he sort of has to fall a little bit. I like swope and could see him as a Shipley/Decker type wr. My main issue with some of these mocks is that I am seeing too many players ( Lattimore) that could fall to the pats because of injuries. I'd rather grab some draftee on his way up the board than player who is on his way down.  TaLib is the big issue Imo because CB is the big need if the pats don't sign him and Dennard misses time. Also if Mallet is traded the Pats will draft a qb in first 4 rounds.

     



    I had a man crush on Decker back in 2010, but NE came away with Taylor Price (3) picks later, so all is well, haha... Decker is more of a pure outside WR based on size (6-3 218) and skill set.  Decker, Golden Tate and Randall Cobb are the (3) WR's that I've wanted most since we've been doing the Draft Thread.

     

     



    There was a big run on WR's that startered in that round just a bit before the Pats picked. They were left with the leftovers.

     

    Decker and Thomas also had the two top, or two of the top, wonderlic scores that year for WR's. You think talent + wonderlic is just a coincidence McD drafted them both that year?



    Hoping he can channel some of that WR drafting ability into this years class.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Starks and Melton both tagged. This makes the quality of DT's in FA very thin. Combine that with the deep DT draft it's looking increasing more friendly to get a DT with #29 then to try to go the FA route or later in the draft

     




    It almost makes too much sense for them to select a DT in Rd 1:

     

    1.  They can use an upgrade.

    2.  There should be one available.

    3.  BB is very good at identifying/drafting/developing high round DL talent.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

     

    I mentioned that I like Rhodes. But I doubt the Pats have a realistic shot, he sort of has to fall a little bit. I like swope and could see him as a Shipley/Decker type wr. My main issue with some of these mocks is that I am seeing too many players ( Lattimore) that could fall to the pats because of injuries. I'd rather grab some draftee on his way up the board than player who is on his way down.  TaLib is the big issue Imo because CB is the big need if the pats don't sign him and Dennard misses time. Also if Mallet is traded the Pats will draft a qb in first 4 rounds.

     



    I had a man crush on Decker back in 2010, but NE came away with Taylor Price (3) picks later, so all is well, haha... Decker is more of a pure outside WR based on size (6-3 218) and skill set.  Decker, Golden Tate and Randall Cobb are the (3) WR's that I've wanted most since we've been doing the Draft Thread.

     

     



    There was a big run on WR's that startered in that round just a bit before the Pats picked. They were left with the leftovers.

     

    Decker and Thomas also had the two top, or two of the top, wonderlic scores that year for WR's. You think talent + wonderlic is just a coincidence McD drafted them both that year?

     



    Hoping he can channel some of that WR drafting ability into this years class.

     



    Amen to that..wasn't he around however when we drafted chad JaCksOn?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

     

    I mentioned that I like Rhodes. But I doubt the Pats have a realistic shot, he sort of has to fall a little bit. I like swope and could see him as a Shipley/Decker type wr. My main issue with some of these mocks is that I am seeing too many players ( Lattimore) that could fall to the pats because of injuries. I'd rather grab some draftee on his way up the board than player who is on his way down.  TaLib is the big issue Imo because CB is the big need if the pats don't sign him and Dennard misses time. Also if Mallet is traded the Pats will draft a qb in first 4 rounds.

     



    I had a man crush on Decker back in 2010, but NE came away with Taylor Price (3) picks later, so all is well, haha... Decker is more of a pure outside WR based on size (6-3 218) and skill set.  Decker, Golden Tate and Randall Cobb are the (3) WR's that I've wanted most since we've been doing the Draft Thread.

     

     



    There was a big run on WR's that startered in that round just a bit before the Pats picked. They were left with the leftovers.

     

    Decker and Thomas also had the two top, or two of the top, wonderlic scores that year for WR's. You think talent + wonderlic is just a coincidence McD drafted them both that year?

     



    Hoping he can channel some of that WR drafting ability into this years class.

     

     



    Amen to that..wasn't he around however when we drafted chad JaCksOn?

     



    As OC/QB coach, yessir.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Starks and Melton both tagged. This makes the quality of DT's in FA very thin. Combine that with the deep DT draft it's looking increasing more friendly to get a DT with #29 then to try to go the FA route or later in the draft

     




    It almost makes too much sense for them to select a DT in Rd 1:

     

    1.  They can use an upgrade.

    2.  There should be one available.

    3.  BB is very good at identifying/drafting/developing high round DL talent.



    That's what I keep telling myself as well, and seems logical, but with him bringing in armstead, vega, Pryor back, Francis and forston in year 2, is the "need" really there or are we just upgrading? Believe me, would love to see a DT/de drafted early.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Starks and Melton both tagged. This makes the quality of DT's in FA very thin. Combine that with the deep DT draft it's looking increasing more friendly to get a DT with #29 then to try to go the FA route or later in the draft

     




    It almost makes too much sense for them to select a DT in Rd 1:

     

    1.  They can use an upgrade.

    2.  There should be one available.

    3.  BB is very good at identifying/drafting/developing high round DL talent.

     



    That's what I keep telling myself as well, and seems logical, but with him bringing in armstead, vega, Pryor back, Francis and forston in year 2, is the "need" really there or are we just upgrading? Believe me, would love to see a DT/de drafted early.

     



    the need would be to get a starter. All the players you listed are essentially backups at this point. Depth wise I think we are ok which is why I don't see him double dipping or even going both FA and draft but I do see him looking for a true starter at the DT position. Really when you consider it Armstead will most likely replace Pryor, Deadrick might or might not be on the roster as he can't sustain sucess, Cunningham imo is gone after he was on the bubble last training camp and without the PEDs he looked awful, Vega is a OLB, Love is not a starter, Francis is great in stints but disappeared when given extended playing times. They still need a start not just to upgrade one. Now replacing Nink would be looking for an upgrade not a starter of need.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from speedster81. Show speedster81's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

     



    I can't say I agree with everything here, but man you gave some real good analysis on some of the free agents. Very good stuff.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks mthurl

     
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