***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Bb has to grab one of the rFA guys to make a difference. There is no FA left that I would consider when added to what we currently have at the position upgrades us over last year. He has to make a play for the rFA guys we mentioned here or I think it will be suicidal. 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Bb has to grab one of the rFA guys to make a difference. There is no FA left that I would consider when added to what we currently have at the position upgrades us over last year. He has to make a play for the rFA guys we mentioned here or I think it will be suicidal. 

     



    Really though you are talking for RFA's

    Cruz - Do you really want to give up a 1st and a big contract for Cruz?

    Alexander - A low tender player but comes with knee issues

    Sanders - A good 3rd round tender option but will he ever be more then a #3 WR? With a very similar player in Jones is Sanders with the pick vs trying to draft a player with potential #1/2 ability? (Rogers/Wheaton)

    From that list Cruz is the only sure starter with the best value maybe being Sanders but do any of them make you more comfortable then you are right now really? Jones should be an upgrade to Branch and Amendola could be a wash with Welker but would Sanders provide more then Lloyd did? I'm disappointed the way they treated the WR FA market this year but it was a very weak market to begin with. If they are looking to impact the WR core this offseason it's looking increasing more like they will have to do so through the draft like they did with the TE and RB positions. The only issue I currently have is they still need an interior rusher, a pass rushing specialist, and a lot more depth with the CBs as Dennard and Talib are the only outside options who can play through the season

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Good strategy waiting on Sanders:

    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko

    Best time to sign a RFA is later in FA when money has to be allocated for draft picks and much tougher to match.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Branch may be on the team in training camp in a deal with Bb to help develop the new receivers we are going to have but he is not going to make this team.  Stallworth may have had a chance because he can play the gunner role on special teams but now with that accident I  don't think so.

    Hernandez is going to be playing much more time as a wide out and h-back(given he is not the best blocker) and Ballard, Hooman an Gronk will be the TEs.

      I do not see the Pats spending a first round pick for a wide receive unless Patterson is there and he wouldn't be.  I think they may go for a defensive down lineman or a cornerback in the first round.  In the second round I can see them going for Rodgers, Swopes or Dobson of Marshall especially is they do not have a FA pickup by that time or cannot trade Mallet for one.  If they have signed a FA wide receiver or traded for one then I think they will wait until the third round and take Stills of Oklahoma as the slot backup - if Edelman is not signed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Morning guys.  It's 7:30 on the west coast.  I just got a call from NY.  Rumor is Pats are making a play for Victor Cruz, willing to give up 29 to get him.  Not sure how solid this rumor is but obviously if true, Cruz more than adequately replaces Welker but would make Amendola redundent.  We need outside help.

     

    Low, to your post below.  Until and unless EM is a Patriot, I'm comparing Jones to Lloyd and took the liberty to redo your numbers below.  Hope you don't mind.  Can't really use Branch since he was cut and resigned throughout the season last year.  Maybe compare Edelman to EM if that happens.

     

    I am assuming its just your gut feeling Faucet.

    Welker 118 rec 174 tgts 11.5 avg .67 rec/tgt

    Amendola 63 rec 101 tgts 10.6 avg .62 rec/tgt (without TB, Gronk, etc)

    Welker - 5'9, 32 yrs old at start of season

    Amendola - 5'11, 27 yrs old at start of season

     

    Lloyd 74 rec 130 tgts 12.3 avg .56 rec/tgt

    Jones 41 rec 67 tgts 10.8 avg .61 rec/tgt (without TB, Gronk, etc)

    Lloyd - 6'0, 32 yrs old at start of season

    Jones - 6'0, 25 yrs old at strat of season

     

    The production comparison is about half.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Morning Faucet,

    I heard the same rumors but nothing more then a kicking the tires type of passing. It might turn out that Cruz is looking for to much money in combination with the first to make it worth while. From my perspective I'm not sure I would like that move. To many of the same type of WR's all over again. CCruz would replace Welker and Amendola would move outside and replace Lloyd? Then Jones would replace Branch. Really that last one would be the only upgrade as I would see a Cruz for Welker swap a wash, Amendoal still would have question marks but brings a nice skill set that could upgrade Lloyds spot, Jones again health question mark but should be an upgrade to Branch. 

    Would be interesting but I can't see BB spending a 1st and then the contract on any WR. Esp with how few picks we have this year. Unless they get the Phil Taylor for Mallett rumored trade

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Well I'm going to agree with Faucet, the WR core is looking closer to 06' then 07' and it's looking less likely Sanders will be a Pat so imo the Pats are looking at #60 as a way to fill the WR position. If they trade Mallett and get an early 3rd we could see them double down on WR this year which wouldn't be a bad thing, but who do you guys see as potential matches in the late 2nd to late 3rd range?

    My list is:

    Da'Rick Rodgers* - My top choice right now. Big, strong, fast, great hands, and a solid route runner. Yes a bit of a knucklehead but he's a 1st round talent that's going to fall because of a failed drug test (sounds like a BB move to me)

    Terrance Williams - Even without RGIII, Williams lead the nation in yrds this past year and is a very solid all around WR. Good route runner, decent size, decent speed, and can create separation

    Robert Woods - His ankle injury limited his deep ball threat ability but at 6'1" 4.4 speed if you are looking for a good down field threat Woods would be an interesting pick up. The couple knocks on Woods is he doesn't have the most consistent hands and has trouble creating separation at times

    Markus Wheaton - Speedy, decent size, good hands, and great YAC ability. Wheaton is the A typical Pats WR. Shifty and below 6'

    Marquess Wilson* - Now this is a guy I could see drafting because it fits BB MO. Wilson is a 1st round talent who is going to drop because of his fight with coaches. If BB is alright with Wilsons explanation of the incident but he's a strong big WR who fights at the line and for the ball. He's a bit slowly by is very good at blocking out defenders and creating separation. In the back of the 3rd he's pose good value, something BB loves

    Ryan Swope - A board favorite he closely resembles Welker in ability but with better size. He'd make a great slot option with YAC ability

    Marcus Davis - I've been on and off on the kid. On one hand how often do you find a 6'5" 230lb WR with 4.45 speed? On the other hand the guy takes plays off and doesn't put any effort at all into run blocking. With the WR core the way it is BB might want to take a chance on the physical freak with great hands in the back of the 3rd and grind his teeth with his Moss like tendecies

     

     



    The one name that I'd add to this list is Stedman Bailey.  Posters frequently talk about wanting a WR that can "win on the outside" and "beat man coverage" and this kid does this consistently.  He's not a big WR at 5-10 193 and won't wow you with his 40 time (4.52), but he's a saavy route runner with good movement ability (6.81 3C / 4.09 SS), gives a great effort as a blocker, looks ultra-competitive and has excellent ball skills/ability in traffic.  He's overshadowed a bit by Austin, but he's been a real go to player at WVU and is frequently making the big play when it's needed and can prob play on the outside or in the slot.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Good call MB, I completely forgot about Bailey. Reminds me a lot of Branch when he came out

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Good call MB, I completely forgot about Bailey. Reminds me a lot of Branch when he came out




    I think Branch... or a hybrid of Branch/Steve Smith (CAR) is a good comparison, yes. 

    Like Branch, he's prob not gonna beat teams deep a ton at the NFL level, but he'll get open 15-20 yards down the field and make a play when needed and can pop one from 50-60 yards on occasion.  Just strikes me as a kid that would come to work, pickup the offense and quickly gain the confidence of TB, similar to Deion.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

    Morning guys.  It's 7:30 on the west coast.  I just got a call from NY.  Rumor is Pats are making a play for Victor Cruz, willing to give up 29 to get him.  Not sure how solid this rumor is but obviously if true, Cruz more than adequately replaces Welker but would make Amendola redundent.  We need outside help.

     

    Low, to your post below.  Until and unless EM is a Patriot, I'm comparing Jones to Lloyd and took the liberty to redo your numbers below.  Hope you don't mind.  Can't really use Branch since he was cut and resigned throughout the season last year.  Maybe compare Edelman to EM if that happens.

     

    I am assuming its just your gut feeling Faucet.

    Welker 118 rec 174 tgts 11.5 avg .67 rec/tgt

    Amendola 63 rec 101 tgts 10.6 avg .62 rec/tgt (without TB, Gronk, etc)

    Welker - 5'9, 32 yrs old at start of season

    Amendola - 5'11, 27 yrs old at start of season

     

    Lloyd 74 rec 130 tgts 12.3 avg .56 rec/tgt

    Jones 41 rec 67 tgts 10.8 avg .61 rec/tgt (without TB, Gronk, etc)

    Lloyd - 6'0, 32 yrs old at start of season

    Jones - 6'0, 25 yrs old at strat of season

     

    The production comparison is about half.



    So are the Targets, which is why I gave you the receptions per target count. The efficiency should be what matters.

    When Welker was with Miami before coming to NE his production was like half as well HOWEVER his effiency has been exactly the same in NE as it was in his last year with Miami.

    (I originally did those numbers for Welker exploring whether Welker was a product of the NE system. His production maybe cause he got more chances but his ability as a reciver was not any better in NE. Same effieciency.)

    I have no idea how these guys would be in NE but if, for the sake of discussion, you wanted to accept the same "possibility" as with Welker then it might lift your spirits a bit.

    ...just trying to bring you some cheer. :)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Agree on Bailey. I like him, and think he may make it to round 3.

    all the comparisons above with welker- Cruz, amendola-Lloyd...I don't think those are fair comparisons at all. first off, Cruz and amendola can line up all over the field ...welker and Lloyd not so much. I think Cruz is an upgrade over Wes. He is bigger, faster and can stretch it. Amendola I think more versatile than Lloyd but give the wash there.

    the thing is the sum of the parts vs the pieces...if you agree that Cruz and amendola could line up anywhere, then the versatility alone is enough to be better than we had before, and mcd should be able to create all kinds of mismatches in game and week to week. Personally, on paper, I would take Cruz and amendola with jones and assuming adding a 4 in the draft or a David Nelson, than what we had last year...again, on paper..it still has to click.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Well I'm going to agree with Faucet, the WR core is looking closer to 06' then 07' and it's looking less likely Sanders will be a Pat so imo the Pats are looking at #60 as a way to fill the WR position. If they trade Mallett and get an early 3rd we could see them double down on WR this year which wouldn't be a bad thing, but who do you guys see as potential matches in the late 2nd to late 3rd range?

    My list is:

    Da'Rick Rodgers* - My top choice right now. Big, strong, fast, great hands, and a solid route runner. Yes a bit of a knucklehead but he's a 1st round talent that's going to fall because of a failed drug test (sounds like a BB move to me)

    Terrance Williams - Even without RGIII, Williams lead the nation in yrds this past year and is a very solid all around WR. Good route runner, decent size, decent speed, and can create separation

    Robert Woods - His ankle injury limited his deep ball threat ability but at 6'1" 4.4 speed if you are looking for a good down field threat Woods would be an interesting pick up. The couple knocks on Woods is he doesn't have the most consistent hands and has trouble creating separation at times

    Markus Wheaton - Speedy, decent size, good hands, and great YAC ability. Wheaton is the A typical Pats WR. Shifty and below 6'

    Marquess Wilson* - Now this is a guy I could see drafting because it fits BB MO. Wilson is a 1st round talent who is going to drop because of his fight with coaches. If BB is alright with Wilsons explanation of the incident but he's a strong big WR who fights at the line and for the ball. He's a bit slowly by is very good at blocking out defenders and creating separation. In the back of the 3rd he's pose good value, something BB loves

    Ryan Swope - A board favorite he closely resembles Welker in ability but with better size. He'd make a great slot option with YAC ability

    Marcus Davis - I've been on and off on the kid. On one hand how often do you find a 6'5" 230lb WR with 4.45 speed? On the other hand the guy takes plays off and doesn't put any effort at all into run blocking. With the WR core the way it is BB might want to take a chance on the physical freak with great hands in the back of the 3rd and grind his teeth with his Moss like tendecies

     

     



    The one name that I'd add to this list is Stedman Bailey.  Posters frequently talk about wanting a WR that can "win on the outside" and "beat man coverage" and this kid does this consistently.  He's not a big WR at 5-10 193 and won't wow you with his 40 time (4.52), but he's a saavy route runner with good movement ability (6.81 3C / 4.09 SS), gives a great effort as a blocker, looks ultra-competitive and has excellent ball skills/ability in traffic.  He's overshadowed a bit by Austin, but he's been a real go to player at WVU and is frequently making the big play when it's needed and can prob play on the outside or in the slot.

     



    I would add this guy also:

     

    Name: Tavarres King 
    College: Georgia     Number: 12
    Height: 6-0   Weight: 189 
    Position: WR  Pos2: 
    Class/Draft Year: rSr/2013
    40 Time: 4.47  20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.33
    3-Cone Drill: 6.91
    Projected Round: 3-4  Stock:     
    Rated number 15 out of 395 WR's    

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Late round OT interesting Pats connection: 

    BY  OLIVER THOMAS  

    .............Luke Marquardt is a name to remember.

    No, Azusa Pacific is not exactly an NFL pipeline. The football program competes NAIA. But it is the alma mater of former NFL running back Christian Okoye—otherwise known as the "Nigerian Nightmare"—who was selected by the Kansas City Chiefs in the 1987 draft.

    Marquardt could be the next Cougar to establish himself in the NFL. The 6'9", 322-pound blocker is a former basketball player who also converted from tight end midway through his freshman year, per George Bremer of The Herald Bulletin.

    With that athletic background, Marquardt will remind some of Patriots left tackle Nate Solder, who is 6'8" and a former tight end. Now Marquardt doesn't have the same polish as New England's 2011 first-rounder, but he's an intriguing bookend regardless.

    At Azusa Pacific, Marquardt was coached by Pro Football Hall of Fame offensive tackle Jackie Slater. If that last name sounds familiar, that's because Coach Slater is the father of Patriots Pro Bowl gunner Matthew Slater.

    Having a connection with the Patriots certainly doesn't make Marquardt a sure bet, but it keeps him on the radar. Bremer reports that Marquardt met with the Indianapolis Colts and the Patriots during the NFL combine.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    What round will he go if he checks out healthwise?

     

    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko

    DJ Hayden runs a 4.33 on his first 40 attempt according to the schools twitter account.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    2006 comparisons might be slightly exaggerated (right side using last years numbers, except Ballard, his are 2011)

     

    Ben Watson (49 in 13 games) < Rob Gronkowski (55 in 11 games)

    Daniel Graham (21 in 12 games) < Jake Ballard (38 in 14 games)

    David Thomas (11 in 15 games) < Aaron Hernandez (51 in 10 games)

     

     

    Reche Caldwell (61 in 16 games) <> yet to be determined

    Jabar Gaffney (11 in 11 games) < Donald Jones (41 in 12 games)

    Troy Brown (43 in 16 games) < Danny Amendola (63 in 11 games)

     

    Kevin Faulk (43 in 15 games) > Shane Vereen (I have to use Danny's #'s here as Vereen is taking over this role I assume (40))

     

    Ballard, Amendola, Jones, and yet to be determined have not played with TB yet either so if you think playing with TB elevates a players production then you have to keep that in mind.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Hayden is a name a lot of people have brought up recently and makes a ton of sense to me. A lot of teams shy'd away from him because of the heart issue and he might drop mid to late rounds but he has some strong skills. I was actually thinking if they trade Mallett and get a 3rd back as part of the deal to go DT with the 1st pick, WR in the 2nd, WR with one of the 3rds and CB with the other and Hayden seems like a great canidate for one of those 3rds.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    For a late round OT I'm starting to fall in love with Jeff Braun from West Virginia. Geno Smith's starting T on one of the best O in college football. He has a lot of ability and some upside and frankly I'm shocked people are projecting him in the late day 3 range. I think he could end up being a 4 position player swing both sides working inside and out. He'd be someone I'm interested in with one of the 7ths

    For late round QB's I'm looking at Nathan Stanley. When looking at QB's I look for mainly 4 things. Accuracy, Pocket Presence, Arm Strength, Decision Making. Stanley has 2.5 of those things, which for a 7th round QB is worth the risk to try to develop him for me. Jeff Tuel is also an interesting canidate as an injury derailed his career but he has very high upside and physically has the tools 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    What about Justin Hunter?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I have a strange feeling Hunter won't last past pick 50. I really don't like the idea of spending a 1st on any WR but Hunter esp. Not only is he coming off a knee injury but if Rogers didn't get booted off the team Hunter would have been the 3rd WR on the team. I'd rather have the more talented Roger and hope his drug problem is behind him in the 2nd then to spend a 1st on a less talented Hunter coming off a knee injury

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Reiss seems to think the pats big moves are done, or at least in a holding pattern until the vollmer situation is resolved. That doesn't seem to bode well for many of us wanting bb to add some additional components to the WR corps. If this is true, and we don't add any FA wr's,  I am less than confident in our ability on offense, and think we took a step back rather than forward especially if we don't do anything additional on defense. This has me very concerned. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

    What about Justin Hunter?



    If they can get him in the 2nd round, great.  I am not convinced he is a 1st rd, although some team will reach.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Reiss seems to think the pats big moves are done, or at least in a holding pattern until the vollmer situation is resolved. That doesn't seem to bode well for many of us wanting bb to add some additional components to the WR corps. If this is true, and we don't add any FA wr's,  I am less than confident in our ability on offense, and think we took a step back rather than forward especially if we don't do anything additional on defense. This has me very concerned. 



    I am and I'm not because they have Ballard, brought Hoom back, and haven't cut Fells. Would it be out of questions they kick Hern to the slot spot and have Amendola as a swing player with Jones outside? Then you add a outside WR via draft. Now non are gaurantees but the potential is there to be just as good if not better then last year, of course the reverse is true too

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I have a strange feeling Hunter won't last past pick 50. I really don't like the idea of spending a 1st on any WR but Hunter esp. Not only is he coming off a knee injury but if Rogers didn't get booted off the team Hunter would have been the 3rd WR on the team. I'd rather have the more talented Roger and hope his drug problem is behind him in the 2nd then to spend a 1st on a less talented Hunter coming off a knee injury



    Probably right on hunter. if we don't grab another FA WR that can make a big impact, I think the pats are forced to do something earlier in the draft. Round 2 or sooner. I don't like the big dice bb is playing with here. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I still think they are going after Sanders, but they will wait till Pitt can make any offer.  Theyw ill draft a WR but it will be 2nd Rd,  trade back for more picks or Mallett trade.  

    Boston Herald:

    Restricted free agents can negotiate with other clubs until April 19, so the Patriots have plenty of time to make Sanders an offer, if that’s the route they so choose. It may be helpful to wait, however, if the Patriots can bank on the Steelers setting their financial agenda by then. The Steelers are hurting for cap room, so they might not be able to retain Sanders.

    If the Pats offer Sanders a contract and he accepts, the Steelers would have five days to match it and keep him.

    If the Steelers don’t match it, they’ll receive the Patriots’ third-round pick in April’s draft.

    Sanders wrote on his Facebook page, “I don’t know what the Pats are going to do.”

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    bred.... isn't jennings coming off an injury? why is he such a safer option than amendola?

     



    he doesnt have a history of being injury prone. games played, reliabliltiy, and ability far over welker (so if we were going ot move on from him, would have been a lot safer).

     

    this still may work. amendola adn a few other bodies if we get 1 or 2 potential top wrs in draft.

     



     

    In 2006 he missed 2 games from and ankle injury. 2007, he missed 3 games from hamstring, ankle, shoulder, and groin injuries. Missed 3 games in 20011 with a knee injury. 2012, 8 games due to groin/hernia. 

    Amendola 27 years old- 5 years/$28.5M with $10M guarenteed

    Jennings 29 years old- 5 years/$45M with $18M guarenteed

    I think BB did well.

     



    i said we may make out.

     

    and jennings was a surer thing, performancewise and physical reliability.

    its ok if we differ.

    tho seems to me, not to be a huge differ here

     



    it will be interesting to see if his production remains the same when he is the only receiving threat the opposition has to game plan for and he has ponder rather than rodgers throwing him the rock. i see two guys with arrows pointing in two different directions. amendola up and jennings down. 

     



    registered ricky. i agree amendola's potential is bgi wit hbrady and health and especialy if we ge a big outside wr in draft

     
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