***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Well I'm going to agree with Faucet, the WR core is looking closer to 06' then 07' and it's looking less likely Sanders will be a Pat so imo the Pats are looking at #60 as a way to fill the WR position. If they trade Mallett and get an early 3rd we could see them double down on WR this year which wouldn't be a bad thing, but who do you guys see as potential matches in the late 2nd to late 3rd range?

    My list is:

    Da'Rick Rodgers* - My top choice right now. Big, strong, fast, great hands, and a solid route runner. Yes a bit of a knucklehead but he's a 1st round talent that's going to fall because of a failed drug test (sounds like a BB move to me)

    Terrance Williams - Even without RGIII, Williams lead the nation in yrds this past year and is a very solid all around WR. Good route runner, decent size, decent speed, and can create separation

    Robert Woods - His ankle injury limited his deep ball threat ability but at 6'1" 4.4 speed if you are looking for a good down field threat Woods would be an interesting pick up. The couple knocks on Woods is he doesn't have the most consistent hands and has trouble creating separation at times

    Markus Wheaton - Speedy, decent size, good hands, and great YAC ability. Wheaton is the A typical Pats WR. Shifty and below 6'

    Marquess Wilson* - Now this is a guy I could see drafting because it fits BB MO. Wilson is a 1st round talent who is going to drop because of his fight with coaches. If BB is alright with Wilsons explanation of the incident but he's a strong big WR who fights at the line and for the ball. He's a bit slowly by is very good at blocking out defenders and creating separation. In the back of the 3rd he's pose good value, something BB loves

    Ryan Swope - A board favorite he closely resembles Welker in ability but with better size. He'd make a great slot option with YAC ability

    Marcus Davis - I've been on and off on the kid. On one hand how often do you find a 6'5" 230lb WR with 4.45 speed? On the other hand the guy takes plays off and doesn't put any effort at all into run blocking. With the WR core the way it is BB might want to take a chance on the physical freak with great hands in the back of the 3rd and grind his teeth with his Moss like tendecies

     



    "we could see them double down on WR this year which wouldn't be a bad thing"

    ive been sayiiing we might should do this for 2 or 3 weeks.

    roigers has been part of the duo ive been trumpeting.. helloooo.  and gave a list of petetnial receivers above.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

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    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    I've gotta say, I am not happy with how our WR situation is shaping up.  Right now we have Amendola instead of Welker and Jones instead of Lloyd.  Both significant downgrades. We take two durable guys with better production and replace them with guys who have injury/health issues.  With our two less-than-durable TEs, I could see us in big trouble if these guys start to drop like flies.

    Now I'm hearing Edelman could go to San Fran.  That would not be good at all.

    Even if we got Sanders, we have not improved over last year's WR corpes.  The F/A class is getting thin at WR.  Heyward-Bay could be the best option left.  I think we have to draft one WR for sure.  If we don't get Sanders or add another quality F/A WR we need to draft 2 of them in the first 3 rounds. 

    This is looking like 2006 all over again.  Brady cannot be happy.

     



    i dont think its ideal. welker is a tank, virtually indescructable., a team first guy, i could see letting him go if we went and paid jennings 8 mil per year on a big contract. otherwise paying wes 2yrs -16 was a safeer way to go. amendola has more talent than wes probably and better hands, but its a gamblel that he stays healthy. he broke his chest open diving to the turf. we'll see.

     

    whether we had lloyd or jones, we are going to need a big outside wr.

    been saying for a few weeks, we shoudl get all our needs ie cb, pass rusher, o line, and if dt needed, in fa and take pass rusher and 2 big wrs in the draft (hopkins / rogers or similar)

    trade mallet, use 2014 picks, whatever.

    facuet i agree, wood, edelman, wlekr, lloyd were more reliable proven guys than what we have

    and too, i did want ot revamp the offense and nto have 6,000 passes for 4 yards and have a big reliable fast guy take 2 defenders with him on every play on the outside (not lloyd).

    so its a big risk. but there is a chance we can be better.

    there might have been a middle ground???

    bring abrahmam and grimes in, sanders im ehh. more proven than a rookie, but not the size i want in say a da rick rogers.

     



    If you gotta have size size size why not advocate engs guy Nelson and draft hunter. They both make Hopkins and Rogers seem small if the difference of a few inches matters that much.

     

     

     

     

    hi low,


    well cause obviously its not just size.

    re rogers try this:

    "Rogers is a virtual Julio Jones clone, exhibiting an exciting combination of size, strength and explosiveness." (draft scout)

    and due to his pot issue got kicked off tenesse and is projected to bew in 3rd rd.

    (and 6 3' 220 aint bad :)

    hunter could be a big player too.

    hopkins i think may be more likely a star and has more skils.

    (ps hunter is only 1 inch taller than rogers and 2 " taller than hopkins)

     



    Hi bred,

     

     

    I was just having a lil fun with you and that was my point. You saying ps this guy is only 1 inch or 2 inches taller does not matter, when comparing Hunter to Hopkins and Rogers. 

    (ps I was expecting and hoping for that response to illustrate the mindset)

    Its the same thing when I say to you or others that Hopkins or rodgers is only 1 or 2 inches taller than the 5'11 or 6' guys.

    1 -2 inches is 1-2 inches is my only point. Weather it is comparing from 5'11 to 6'1 or 6'1 to 6'3.

    As you mentioned, it's not all about size.

    I do like both Hopkins and Rodgers. Anyone seen any wonderlic scores this season or did they replace that test with something new? If so what was the name of the new test?



    seen and heard no scores yet. the difference low with a 6 2" or bigger receiver, esp with long arms, is that they have an advantage over most of the league's cbs who are not 6 2" to 6 5".

    vs a 5  8 to 5 10 or 11 receiver.

    further my desire for a big body, with speed shoulkd be obviouis whenyou consider how uncoverable gronk is or ifg you watch or play basketball (its much harder ot block out or to defend a bigger body form the ball, and easier for them to block you  (a cb) out.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    Bb has to grab one of the rFA guys to make a difference. There is no FA left that I would consider when added to what we currently have at the position upgrades us over last year. He has to make a play for the rFA guys we mentioned here or I think it will be suicidal. 

     

     



    Really though you are talking for RFA's

     

    Cruz - Do you really want to give up a 1st and a big contract for Cruz?

    Alexander - A low tender player but comes with knee issues

    Sanders - A good 3rd round tender option but will he ever be more then a #3 WR? With a very similar player in Jones is Sanders with the pick vs trying to draft a player with potential #1/2 ability? (Rogers/Wheaton)

    From that list Cruz is the only sure starter with the best value maybe being Sanders but do any of them make you more comfortable then you are right now really? Jones should be an upgrade to Branch and Amendola could be a wash with Welker but would Sanders provide more then Lloyd did? I'm disappointed the way they treated the WR FA market this year but it was a very weak market to begin with. If they are looking to impact the WR core this offseason it's looking increasing more like they will have to do so through the draft like they did with the TE and RB positions. The only issue I currently have is they still need an interior rusher, a pass rushing specialist, and a lot more depth with the CBs as Dennard and Talib are the only outside options who can play through the season

     

     



    "The only issue I currently have is they still need an interior rusher, a pass rushing specialist, and a lot more depth with the CBs as Dennard and Talib are the only outside options who can play through the season"

     

    agree, but o line in question as well and i dotn see a way with the pciks we have to add more to the dt's  except late round. so abraham and a legit cb are still a must in fa.da rick rogers vs sanders, 1 is a rsik, but wiht much higher upside. 2 big wrs in rd 2 and 3 seem to be the way to go. and i go pass rusher in rd 1.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

    Good strategy waiting on Sanders:

    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko

    Best time to sign a RFA is later in FA when money has to be allocated for draft picks and much tougher to match.



    jj whats eric leigh's twitter feed sayiing today. you need your own thread to shoot us the updates on her and othe tiwtter's you are on re pats. seriously. rumors are what we have for fun at this point

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    I've gotta say, I am not happy with how our WR situation is shaping up.  Right now we have Amendola instead of Welker and Jones instead of Lloyd.  Both significant downgrades. We take two durable guys with better production and replace them with guys who have injury/health issues.  With our two less-than-durable TEs, I could see us in big trouble if these guys start to drop like flies.

    Now I'm hearing Edelman could go to San Fran.  That would not be good at all.

    Even if we got Sanders, we have not improved over last year's WR corpes.  The F/A class is getting thin at WR.  Heyward-Bay could be the best option left.  I think we have to draft one WR for sure.  If we don't get Sanders or add another quality F/A WR we need to draft 2 of them in the first 3 rounds. 

    This is looking like 2006 all over again.  Brady cannot be happy.

     



    i dont think its ideal. welker is a tank, virtually indescructable., a team first guy, i could see letting him go if we went and paid jennings 8 mil per year on a big contract. otherwise paying wes 2yrs -16 was a safeer way to go. amendola has more talent than wes probably and better hands, but its a gamblel that he stays healthy. he broke his chest open diving to the turf. we'll see.

     

    whether we had lloyd or jones, we are going to need a big outside wr.

    been saying for a few weeks, we shoudl get all our needs ie cb, pass rusher, o line, and if dt needed, in fa and take pass rusher and 2 big wrs in the draft (hopkins / rogers or similar)

    trade mallet, use 2014 picks, whatever.

    facuet i agree, wood, edelman, wlekr, lloyd were more reliable proven guys than what we have

    and too, i did want ot revamp the offense and nto have 6,000 passes for 4 yards and have a big reliable fast guy take 2 defenders with him on every play on the outside (not lloyd).

    so its a big risk. but there is a chance we can be better.

    there might have been a middle ground???

    bring abrahmam and grimes in, sanders im ehh. more proven than a rookie, but not the size i want in say a da rick rogers.

     



    If you gotta have size size size why not advocate engs guy Nelson and draft hunter. They both make Hopkins and Rogers seem small if the difference of a few inches matters that much.

     

     

     

     

    hi low,


    well cause obviously its not just size.

    re rogers try this:

    "Rogers is a virtual Julio Jones clone, exhibiting an exciting combination of size, strength and explosiveness." (draft scout)

    and due to his pot issue got kicked off tenesse and is projected to bew in 3rd rd.

    (and 6 3' 220 aint bad :)

    hunter could be a big player too.

    hopkins i think may be more likely a star and has more skils.

    (ps hunter is only 1 inch taller than rogers and 2 " taller than hopkins)

     



    Hi bred,

     

     

    I was just having a lil fun with you and that was my point. You saying ps this guy is only 1 inch or 2 inches taller does not matter, when comparing Hunter to Hopkins and Rogers. 

    (ps I was expecting and hoping for that response to illustrate the mindset)

    Its the same thing when I say to you or others that Hopkins or rodgers is only 1 or 2 inches taller than the 5'11 or 6' guys.

    1 -2 inches is 1-2 inches is my only point. Weather it is comparing from 5'11 to 6'1 or 6'1 to 6'3.

    As you mentioned, it's not all about size.

    I do like both Hopkins and Rodgers. Anyone seen any wonderlic scores this season or did they replace that test with something new? If so what was the name of the new test?

     



    seen and heard no scores yet. the difference low with a 6 2" or bigger receiver, esp with long arms, is that they have an advantage over most of the league's cbs who are not 6 2" to 6 5".

     

    vs a 5  8 to 5 10 or 11 receiver.

    further my desire for a big body, with speed shoulkd be obviouis whenyou consider how uncoverable gronk is or ifg you watch or play basketball (its much harder ot block out or to defend a bigger body form the ball, and easier for them to block you  (a cb) out.

     



    I hear. All things being equal, who wouldn't want the bigger.

     

    As with everything so many things to take into account besides height.

    Strength

    Arm length

    body control

    hand size (helps in cold weather)

    intelligence ( Imentioned elswhere that the yr McD took Thoomas and Decker they had the #1 and 2 wonderlic scores for WR's I believe)

    "willingness" AND "effectiveness" to block

    Verticals (many times some of the 6'2 guys have low 30 verts and the 5'11 guys might have 40 inch verts)

    ..and probably others I am not thinking of.

    Also I know Boldin had an amazing post season but his regular season was far from amazing. 65 catches, 4 TD's, less than 1000 yards. That's basically what we got out of Lloyd.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

    The one thing the Pats need to insure is that the guy they pick up...whether in FA or through the draft...has deep speed and CAN CATCH. With Welker being their principal receiver but ranking 3rd for the last two years in drops per passing attempt for all NFL receivers whoever they sign has to be able to hold onto the ball.



    agred looking for size, speed adn ability to snag teh ball easily in trafic our wr draftees (ie hopkins / rogers

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Updated mock draft from me:

    I'm making a couple of assumption here so bare with me:

    1. The Pats will trade Mallett and part of the compensation will be a 3rd at the minimum
    2. Other then maybe a pass rushing specialist and bringing back Vollmer they are essentially done in FA

    #29 - Jonathan Hankins DT Ohio - If Hankins is there he's the pick. He's a big strong presence next to Vince who is use to taking on dbl teams on every down. He can push the pocket and put pressure on QB's but is also extremely good in run defense. He'd make an excellent addition and a future Wilfork replacement

    alt - Jenkins/J. Williams DT - I'd take either honestly and both could be an option if Hankins doesn't make it to #29

    #59 - Da'Rick Rogers WR Tenn Tech - If they don't get more WR's via FA then Rogers makes a ton of sense. Top 20 talent in the back of the 2nd has #1 Z flanker upside with the combo of size, speed, hands, and route running ability. Best yet is he doesn't mind getting dirty by blocking or fighting for the ball. Provided his drug history is behind him then he should be the pick in the 2nd

    alt - Darius Slay CB - he could or couldn't be at the back of the 2nd but adds great depth

    3rd from Mallet trade - Markus Wheaton WR Oregon State - If Rogers is the first WR the Pats get Wheaton could be the secondary as they build outside the numbers WR's. Wheaton has explosive speed, is a Branch type route runner, and has reliable hands. He's essentially this years version of Torrey Smith. This would completely revamp  the O and dbl down on WR ensuring at least one will give some production in 13'

    alt - Will Davis CB - notice a trend yet? I'm focusing on dbling up either the CB position or the WR position because they are the thinnest right now and I do think BB will dbl up on one or the other and Davis is a good canidate that can play inside or out

    #91 - DJ Hayden CB U Hou - BB tends to take risks in the late 3rd-6th range on players who have fallen due to injury or drug related issues. Hayden falls over heart concerns but he's a top end CB. I've been unsure about him because of that heart condition but from recent reports he might be worth taking the risk. He's considered anywhere from a back end of the 2nd round to completely off draft boards prospect depending on how his medicals check out.

    alt -  Sanders via RFA - just as good of an option as any

    7th - Jeef Braun T West Virginia - A starter for one of the best O's in college with Smith as his QB Braun did an admerial job at T. He needs some work but with Scar I see Kaczur upside in the kid with the ability to play 4 positions on the OL. Worth investing into Braun as the ultimate swing man for a team that loves versitility

    7th - Jeff Tuel QB Washington State - They could bring in a vet the replace Mallett but they could also bring in this kid. If an injury didn't derail his 11' season he wouldn't have been platooned in 12' but it happened. This kid has the physical and mental tools to be a starting caliber QB in the Pro's but his stock will suffer because of the platoon and 11' injury. Seems like the low risk high reward QB's the Pats tend to look for and to develop. Similar to Cassel and Brady before him

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

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    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    I've gotta say, I am not happy with how our WR situation is shaping up.  Right now we have Amendola instead of Welker and Jones instead of Lloyd.  Both significant downgrades. We take two durable guys with better production and replace them with guys who have injury/health issues.  With our two less-than-durable TEs, I could see us in big trouble if these guys start to drop like flies.

    Now I'm hearing Edelman could go to San Fran.  That would not be good at all.

    Even if we got Sanders, we have not improved over last year's WR corpes.  The F/A class is getting thin at WR.  Heyward-Bay could be the best option left.  I think we have to draft one WR for sure.  If we don't get Sanders or add another quality F/A WR we need to draft 2 of them in the first 3 rounds. 

    This is looking like 2006 all over again.  Brady cannot be happy.

     



    i dont think its ideal. welker is a tank, virtually indescructable., a team first guy, i could see letting him go if we went and paid jennings 8 mil per year on a big contract. otherwise paying wes 2yrs -16 was a safeer way to go. amendola has more talent than wes probably and better hands, but its a gamblel that he stays healthy. he broke his chest open diving to the turf. we'll see.

     

    whether we had lloyd or jones, we are going to need a big outside wr.

    been saying for a few weeks, we shoudl get all our needs ie cb, pass rusher, o line, and if dt needed, in fa and take pass rusher and 2 big wrs in the draft (hopkins / rogers or similar)

    trade mallet, use 2014 picks, whatever.

    facuet i agree, wood, edelman, wlekr, lloyd were more reliable proven guys than what we have

    and too, i did want ot revamp the offense and nto have 6,000 passes for 4 yards and have a big reliable fast guy take 2 defenders with him on every play on the outside (not lloyd).

    so its a big risk. but there is a chance we can be better.

    there might have been a middle ground???

    bring abrahmam and grimes in, sanders im ehh. more proven than a rookie, but not the size i want in say a da rick rogers.

     



    If you gotta have size size size why not advocate engs guy Nelson and draft hunter. They both make Hopkins and Rogers seem small if the difference of a few inches matters that much.

     

     

     

     

    hi low,


    well cause obviously its not just size.

    re rogers try this:

    "Rogers is a virtual Julio Jones clone, exhibiting an exciting combination of size, strength and explosiveness." (draft scout)

    and due to his pot issue got kicked off tenesse and is projected to bew in 3rd rd.

    (and 6 3' 220 aint bad :)

    hunter could be a big player too.

    hopkins i think may be more likely a star and has more skils.

    (ps hunter is only 1 inch taller than rogers and 2 " taller than hopkins)

     



    Hi bred,

     

     

    I was just having a lil fun with you and that was my point. You saying ps this guy is only 1 inch or 2 inches taller does not matter, when comparing Hunter to Hopkins and Rogers. 

    (ps I was expecting and hoping for that response to illustrate the mindset)

    Its the same thing when I say to you or others that Hopkins or rodgers is only 1 or 2 inches taller than the 5'11 or 6' guys.

    1 -2 inches is 1-2 inches is my only point. Weather it is comparing from 5'11 to 6'1 or 6'1 to 6'3.

    As you mentioned, it's not all about size.

    I do like both Hopkins and Rodgers. Anyone seen any wonderlic scores this season or did they replace that test with something new? If so what was the name of the new test?

     



    seen and heard no scores yet. the difference low with a 6 2" or bigger receiver, esp with long arms, is that they have an advantage over most of the league's cbs who are not 6 2" to 6 5".

     

    vs a 5  8 to 5 10 or 11 receiver.

    further my desire for a big body, with speed shoulkd be obviouis whenyou consider how uncoverable gronk is or ifg you watch or play basketball (its much harder ot block out or to defend a bigger body form the ball, and easier for them to block you  (a cb) out.

     



    I hear. All things being equal, who wouldn't want the bigger.

     

    As with everything so many things to take into account besides height.

    Strength

    Arm length

    body control

    hand size (helps in cold weather)

    intelligence ( Imentioned elswhere that the yr McD took Thoomas and Decker they had the #1 and 2 wonderlic scores for WR's I believe)

    "willingness" to block

    Verticals (many times some of the 6'2 guys have low 30 verts and the 5'11 guys might have 40 inch verts)

    ..and probably others I am not thinking of.

    Also I know Boldin had an amazing post season but his regular season was far from amazing. 65 catches, 4 TD's, less than 1000 yards. That's basically what we got out of Lloyd.



    i agree with the list  you postedof qualities and I AM AND DO FACTOR ALL THOSE IN.

    and this year (and last) choosing wrs who have all of teh above AND  who are in the 6 2" or bigger range (ideally) and 210 or bigger ideally.

    see here:

     

    NFL Combine Live: Da’Rick Rogers Delivers Best Overall Performance Displaying Speed, Agility, Explosiveness

    Read more at: http://nesn.com/2013/02/nfl-combine-live-tavon-austin-among-prospects-to-watch-during-day-4-drills-2/

    40 inch vert

    9.5 inch hands

    6.71 cone

    4.06 shuttle

     

    and more than that, you can see his bidy control and abilty to snag in traffic on the field.

    hopkins ability is easily apparent as well. nunter somewhat so as well on the field with less polish at this  time, so a potential backup plan to rogers.

     

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

    The one thing the Pats need to insure is that the guy they pick up...whether in FA or through the draft...has deep speed and CAN CATCH. With Welker being their principal receiver but ranking 3rd for the last two years in drops per passing attempt for all NFL receivers whoever they sign has to be able to hold onto the ball.



    I wouldn't say they need deep speed. I would say they need a play who can create their own separation. Whether that's a Boldin type who creates it by boxing out CB's with size or a deep speed guy who can create separation with explosive speed. Given Brady's age and his deep ball isn't getting any better with age I might lean more towards someone who can create separation within 20 as opposed to someone who gets separation oustide 20

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    I've gotta say, I am not happy with how our WR situation is shaping up.  Right now we have Amendola instead of Welker and Jones instead of Lloyd.  Both significant downgrades. We take two durable guys with better production and replace them with guys who have injury/health issues.  With our two less-than-durable TEs, I could see us in big trouble if these guys start to drop like flies.

    Now I'm hearing Edelman could go to San Fran.  That would not be good at all.

    Even if we got Sanders, we have not improved over last year's WR corpes.  The F/A class is getting thin at WR.  Heyward-Bay could be the best option left.  I think we have to draft one WR for sure.  If we don't get Sanders or add another quality F/A WR we need to draft 2 of them in the first 3 rounds. 

    This is looking like 2006 all over again.  Brady cannot be happy.

     



    Removing the potential for injuries to happen to any WR or TE from the equation for a moment. ...and assuming the Pats eventually land ES.

     

    How exactly do you "know" the receiving situation is at a significant downgrade to last year? Have you seen any of these three players play in the Patriots offensive system and with TB before? Not sure what we know we'll get. One way or the other.

    I am assuming its just your gut feeling Faucet.

     

    Welker 118 rec 174 tgts 11.5 avg .67 rec/tgt

    Amendola 63 rec 101 tgts 10.6 avg .62 rec/tgt (without TB, Gronk, etc)

     

    Lloyd 74 rec 130 tgts 12.3 avg .56 rec/tgt

    Sanders 44 rec 74 tgts 14.2 avg .59 rec/tgt (without TB, Gronk, etc)

     

    Branch 16 rec 29 tgts 9.1 avg .55 rec/tgt

    Jones 41 rec 67 tgts 10.8 avg .61 rec/tgt (without TB, Gronk, etc)

     

    I just do not see a significant downgrade to last year. ...and if TB helps elevate those guys even a lil bit? No good vibes creeping in?

     



    Not sure it's a downgrade, but also don't see it as a clear upgrade in a unit that I believe needs an upgrade.  I didn't really like the wideouts last year.  Yes, with TEs added in, the receiving corp was fine, but the WRs weren't strong overall and that had an impact on offensive diversity and depth.

     

     



    I think health had the biggest to do with it.

     

    No Gronk or Edelman and Brady wearing the heck out of poor welker.

    Even if Gronk does not play but you have a better blocking TE and replace Branch with someone who can still run then I do not think they stall as much.

    The bottom line is on papaer we have absolutely no idea. The corp could be a downgrade, upgrade, or simple lateral move for more youth, speed, height, and high hopes??



    I agree about the injury to Gronk being a killer (two years in a row).  But we also need that replacement for Branch--a guy who creates some problems on the sidelines and further downfield.  Really we need two of those guys.  Jones gives us one, but I think we need one more, preferably more dominant than Jones has been to date.

     

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Updated mock draft from me:

    I'm making a couple of assumption here so bare with me:

    1. The Pats will trade Mallett and part of the compensation will be a 3rd at the minimum
    2. Other then maybe a pass rushing specialist and bringing back Vollmer they are essentially done in FA

    #29 - Jonathan Hankins DT Ohio - If Hankins is there he's the pick. He's a big strong presence next to Vince who is use to taking on dbl teams on every down. He can push the pocket and put pressure on QB's but is also extremely good in run defense. He'd make an excellent addition and a future Wilfork replacement

    alt - Jenkins/J. Williams DT - I'd take either honestly and both could be an option if Hankins doesn't make it to #29

    #59 - Da'Rick Rogers WR Tenn Tech - If they don't get more WR's via FA then Rogers makes a ton of sense. Top 20 talent in the back of the 2nd has #1 Z flanker upside with the combo of size, speed, hands, and route running ability. Best yet is he doesn't mind getting dirty by blocking or fighting for the ball. Provided his drug history is behind him then he should be the pick in the 2nd

    alt - Darius Slay CB - he could or couldn't be at the back of the 2nd but adds great depth

    3rd from Mallet trade - Markus Wheaton WR Oregon State - If Rogers is the first WR the Pats get Wheaton could be the secondary as they build outside the numbers WR's. Wheaton has explosive speed, is a Branch type route runner, and has reliable hands. He's essentially this years version of Torrey Smith. This would completely revamp  the O and dbl down on WR ensuring at least one will give some production in 13'

    alt - Will Davis CB - notice a trend yet? I'm focusing on dbling up either the CB position or the WR position because they are the thinnest right now and I do think BB will dbl up on one or the other and Davis is a good canidate that can play inside or out

    #91 - DJ Hayden CB U Hou - BB tends to take risks in the late 3rd-6th range on players who have fallen due to injury or drug related issues. Hayden falls over heart concerns but he's a top end CB. I've been unsure about him because of that heart condition but from recent reports he might be worth taking the risk. He's considered anywhere from a back end of the 2nd round to completely off draft boards prospect depending on how his medicals check out.

    alt -  Sanders via RFA - just as good of an option as any

    7th - Jeef Braun T West Virginia - A starter for one of the best O's in college with Smith as his QB Braun did an admerial job at T. He needs some work but with Scar I see Kaczur upside in the kid with the ability to play 4 positions on the OL. Worth investing into Braun as the ultimate swing man for a team that loves versitility

    7th - Jeff Tuel QB Washington State - They could bring in a vet the replace Mallett but they could also bring in this kid. If an injury didn't derail his 11' season he wouldn't have been platooned in 12' but it happened. This kid has the physical and mental tools to be a starting caliber QB in the Pro's but his stock will suffer because of the platoon and 11' injury. Seems like the low risk high reward QB's the Pats tend to look for and to develop. Similar to Cassel and Brady before him



    i like hanakins but prefer carradine there.

    i take hopkins / rogers ifg i can make it happen

    or rogers, hunter

    alternate: williams, woods

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

    What round will he go if he checks out healthwise?

     

    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko

    DJ Hayden runs a 4.33 on his first 40 attempt according to the schools twitter account.



    Flyin'!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

     

    What round will he go if he checks out healthwise?

     

    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko

    DJ Hayden runs a 4.33 on his first 40 attempt according to the schools twitter account.

     



    Flyin'!

     



    MB you`re the man this kid is awesome

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Updated mock draft from me:

    I'm making a couple of assumption here so bare with me:

    1. The Pats will trade Mallett and part of the compensation will be a 3rd at the minimum
    2. Other then maybe a pass rushing specialist and bringing back Vollmer they are essentially done in FA

    #29 - Jonathan Hankins DT Ohio - If Hankins is there he's the pick. He's a big strong presence next to Vince who is use to taking on dbl teams on every down. He can push the pocket and put pressure on QB's but is also extremely good in run defense. He'd make an excellent addition and a future Wilfork replacement

    alt - Jenkins/J. Williams DT - I'd take either honestly and both could be an option if Hankins doesn't make it to #29

    #59 - Da'Rick Rogers WR Tenn Tech - If they don't get more WR's via FA then Rogers makes a ton of sense. Top 20 talent in the back of the 2nd has #1 Z flanker upside with the combo of size, speed, hands, and route running ability. Best yet is he doesn't mind getting dirty by blocking or fighting for the ball. Provided his drug history is behind him then he should be the pick in the 2nd

    alt - Darius Slay CB - he could or couldn't be at the back of the 2nd but adds great depth

    3rd from Mallet trade - Markus Wheaton WR Oregon State - If Rogers is the first WR the Pats get Wheaton could be the secondary as they build outside the numbers WR's. Wheaton has explosive speed, is a Branch type route runner, and has reliable hands. He's essentially this years version of Torrey Smith. This would completely revamp  the O and dbl down on WR ensuring at least one will give some production in 13'

    alt - Will Davis CB - notice a trend yet? I'm focusing on dbling up either the CB position or the WR position because they are the thinnest right now and I do think BB will dbl up on one or the other and Davis is a good canidate that can play inside or out

    #91 - DJ Hayden CB U Hou - BB tends to take risks in the late 3rd-6th range on players who have fallen due to injury or drug related issues. Hayden falls over heart concerns but he's a top end CB. I've been unsure about him because of that heart condition but from recent reports he might be worth taking the risk. He's considered anywhere from a back end of the 2nd round to completely off draft boards prospect depending on how his medicals check out.

    alt -  Sanders via RFA - just as good of an option as any

    7th - Jeef Braun T West Virginia - A starter for one of the best O's in college with Smith as his QB Braun did an admerial job at T. He needs some work but with Scar I see Kaczur upside in the kid with the ability to play 4 positions on the OL. Worth investing into Braun as the ultimate swing man for a team that loves versitility

    7th - Jeff Tuel QB Washington State - They could bring in a vet the replace Mallett but they could also bring in this kid. If an injury didn't derail his 11' season he wouldn't have been platooned in 12' but it happened. This kid has the physical and mental tools to be a starting caliber QB in the Pro's but his stock will suffer because of the platoon and 11' injury. Seems like the low risk high reward QB's the Pats tend to look for and to develop. Similar to Cassel and Brady before him



    That'd be solid haul overall, PE... especially if they're able to land a kid the calibur of Hayden in Rd 3.

    1.  You upgrade the DL (no matter which of the three you land).

    2.  You pickup a WR with size and upside.

    3.  You pickup one of the better CB's in this entire class, IMO, at a great value.

    I'm hoping Mizzou WR TJ Moe is available towards the end of Rd 7, but a late round OL  or QB option isn't bad.

    I'll need to give this Braun kid a look, thanks.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    i like hanakins but prefer carradine there.

     

    i take hopkins / rogers ifg i can make it happen

    or rogers, hunter

    alternate: williams, woods



    I'm not as big on Carradine as most people appearently. Carradine looked horrible againt the run and took huge advantage of teams carrying more aboutWerner then him. It seemed no matter what he did in previous games teams were more concerned over Werner then they were about Carradine, which isn't a good sign in my opinion. I'd rather have that interior presence who could have a large impact replacing Love then an outside guy who could or couldn't increase the pass rushing ability while weakening the run defense 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

    The one thing the Pats need to insure is that the guy they pick up...whether in FA or through the draft...has deep speed and CAN CATCH. With Welker being their principal receiver but ranking 3rd for the last two years in drops per passing attempt for all NFL receivers whoever they sign has to be able to hold onto the ball.

     



    I wouldn't say they need deep speed. I would say they need a play who can create their own separation. Whether that's a Boldin type who creates it by boxing out CB's with size or a deep speed guy who can create separation with explosive speed. Given Brady's age and his deep ball isn't getting any better with age I might lean more towards someone who can create separation within 20 as opposed to someone who gets separation oustide 20

     



    agree with separation of course.

    i think if brady had a wr he cold chuck it up to and knwo they are going to come down with the ball, he woudl be more confident (and the accuaray is not pinpoint critical with a wer who is big and can track).

    hopkins 4.41

    rogers 4.5

    Da'Rick Rogers Scouting Report 
    By Charlie Campbell 

    Strengths:
    • Explosive
    • Toughness; unafraid of hard hits
    • Routinely comes down with difficult catches
    • Great combination of size and speed
    • Excellent run after the catch ability
    • Plays with an attitude
    • Good route-runner
    • Scheme versatility
    • Extremely athletic
    • Very good body control
    • Makes highlight-reel catches
    • Quickness to get separation
    • Physical with cornerbacks
    • Scheme versatility
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

     

    i like hanakins but prefer carradine there.

     

    i take hopkins / rogers ifg i can make it happen

    or rogers, hunter

    alternate: williams, woods

     



    I'm not as big on Carradine as most people appearently. Carradine looked horrible againt the run and took huge advantage of teams carrying more aboutWerner then him. It seemed no matter what he did in previous games teams were more concerned over Werner then they were about Carradine, which isn't a good sign in my opinion. I'd rather have that interior presence who could have a large impact replacing Love then an outside guy who could or couldn't increase the pass rushing ability while weakening the run defense 

     



    i hear your thoughts.

    i started this season with dt as on of top 3 draft needs.

    im lookking for the best pass rusher available at 29 (our most cirtical need to me). right now i see him and okafor with hunt a reach with potential big upside.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    I've gotta say, I am not happy with how our WR situation is shaping up.  Right now we have Amendola instead of Welker and Jones instead of Lloyd.  Both significant downgrades. We take two durable guys with better production and replace them with guys who have injury/health issues.  With our two less-than-durable TEs, I could see us in big trouble if these guys start to drop like flies.

    Now I'm hearing Edelman could go to San Fran.  That would not be good at all.

    Even if we got Sanders, we have not improved over last year's WR corpes.  The F/A class is getting thin at WR.  Heyward-Bay could be the best option left.  I think we have to draft one WR for sure.  If we don't get Sanders or add another quality F/A WR we need to draft 2 of them in the first 3 rounds. 

    This is looking like 2006 all over again.  Brady cannot be happy.

     



    i dont think its ideal. welker is a tank, virtually indescructable., a team first guy, i could see letting him go if we went and paid jennings 8 mil per year on a big contract. otherwise paying wes 2yrs -16 was a safeer way to go. amendola has more talent than wes probably and better hands, but its a gamblel that he stays healthy. he broke his chest open diving to the turf. we'll see.

     

    whether we had lloyd or jones, we are going to need a big outside wr.

    been saying for a few weeks, we shoudl get all our needs ie cb, pass rusher, o line, and if dt needed, in fa and take pass rusher and 2 big wrs in the draft (hopkins / rogers or similar)

    trade mallet, use 2014 picks, whatever.

    facuet i agree, wood, edelman, wlekr, lloyd were more reliable proven guys than what we have

    and too, i did want ot revamp the offense and nto have 6,000 passes for 4 yards and have a big reliable fast guy take 2 defenders with him on every play on the outside (not lloyd).

    so its a big risk. but there is a chance we can be better.

    there might have been a middle ground???

    bring abrahmam and grimes in, sanders im ehh. more proven than a rookie, but not the size i want in say a da rick rogers.

     



    If you gotta have size size size why not advocate engs guy Nelson and draft hunter. They both make Hopkins and Rogers seem small if the difference of a few inches matters that much.

     

     

     

     

    hi low,


    well cause obviously its not just size.

    re rogers try this:

    "Rogers is a virtual Julio Jones clone, exhibiting an exciting combination of size, strength and explosiveness." (draft scout)

    and due to his pot issue got kicked off tenesse and is projected to bew in 3rd rd.

    (and 6 3' 220 aint bad :)

    hunter could be a big player too.

    hopkins i think may be more likely a star and has more skils.

    (ps hunter is only 1 inch taller than rogers and 2 " taller than hopkins)

     



    Hi bred,

     

     

    I was just having a lil fun with you and that was my point. You saying ps this guy is only 1 inch or 2 inches taller does not matter, when comparing Hunter to Hopkins and Rogers. 

    (ps I was expecting and hoping for that response to illustrate the mindset)

    Its the same thing when I say to you or others that Hopkins or rodgers is only 1 or 2 inches taller than the 5'11 or 6' guys.

    1 -2 inches is 1-2 inches is my only point. Weather it is comparing from 5'11 to 6'1 or 6'1 to 6'3.

    As you mentioned, it's not all about size.

    I do like both Hopkins and Rodgers. Anyone seen any wonderlic scores this season or did they replace that test with something new? If so what was the name of the new test?

     



    seen and heard no scores yet. the difference low with a 6 2" or bigger receiver, esp with long arms, is that they have an advantage over most of the league's cbs who are not 6 2" to 6 5".

     

    vs a 5  8 to 5 10 or 11 receiver.

    further my desire for a big body, with speed shoulkd be obviouis whenyou consider how uncoverable gronk is or ifg you watch or play basketball (its much harder ot block out or to defend a bigger body form the ball, and easier for them to block you  (a cb) out.

     



    I hear. All things being equal, who wouldn't want the bigger.

     

    As with everything so many things to take into account besides height.

    Strength

    Arm length

    body control

    hand size (helps in cold weather)

    intelligence ( Imentioned elswhere that the yr McD took Thoomas and Decker they had the #1 and 2 wonderlic scores for WR's I believe)

    "willingness" to block

    Verticals (many times some of the 6'2 guys have low 30 verts and the 5'11 guys might have 40 inch verts)

    ..and probably others I am not thinking of.

    Also I know Boldin had an amazing post season but his regular season was far from amazing. 65 catches, 4 TD's, less than 1000 yards. That's basically what we got out of Lloyd.

     



    i agree with the list  you postedof qualities and I AM AND DO FACTOR ALL THOSE IN.

     

    and this year (and last) choosing wrs who have all of teh above AND  who are in the 6 2" or bigger range (ideally) and 210 or bigger ideally.

    see here:

     

    NFL Combine Live: Da’Rick Rogers Delivers Best Overall Performance Displaying Speed, Agility, Explosiveness

    Read more at: http://nesn.com/2013/02/nfl-combine-live-tavon-austin-among-prospects-to-watch-during-day-4-drills-2/

    40 inch vert

    9.5 inch hands

    6.71 cone

    4.06 shuttle

     

    and more than that, you can see his bidy control and abilty to snag in traffic on the field.

    hopkins ability is easily apparent as well. nunter somewhat so as well on the field with less polish at this  time, so a potential backup plan to rogers.

     



    I hear you Bred, no need to sell the player. I posted my list of guys a very long time ago. Rogers was one of the WR that I had in bold.

    I already knew about Rogers performance. I keep my own spreadsheet going back a number of years and quickly can see which plays each year perform in the top percentage historically of their positions as an "Athlete".

    I would like to hear MB's info on intelligence and leadership/character with regards to him. I am always to lazy to go dig that info up but MB does a good job with that.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    I've gotta say, I am not happy with how our WR situation is shaping up.  Right now we have Amendola instead of Welker and Jones instead of Lloyd.  Both significant downgrades. We take two durable guys with better production and replace them with guys who have injury/health issues.  With our two less-than-durable TEs, I could see us in big trouble if these guys start to drop like flies.

    Now I'm hearing Edelman could go to San Fran.  That would not be good at all.

    Even if we got Sanders, we have not improved over last year's WR corpes.  The F/A class is getting thin at WR.  Heyward-Bay could be the best option left.  I think we have to draft one WR for sure.  If we don't get Sanders or add another quality F/A WR we need to draft 2 of them in the first 3 rounds. 

    This is looking like 2006 all over again.  Brady cannot be happy.

     



    i dont think its ideal. welker is a tank, virtually indescructable., a team first guy, i could see letting him go if we went and paid jennings 8 mil per year on a big contract. otherwise paying wes 2yrs -16 was a safeer way to go. amendola has more talent than wes probably and better hands, but its a gamblel that he stays healthy. he broke his chest open diving to the turf. we'll see.

     

    whether we had lloyd or jones, we are going to need a big outside wr.

    been saying for a few weeks, we shoudl get all our needs ie cb, pass rusher, o line, and if dt needed, in fa and take pass rusher and 2 big wrs in the draft (hopkins / rogers or similar)

    trade mallet, use 2014 picks, whatever.

    facuet i agree, wood, edelman, wlekr, lloyd were more reliable proven guys than what we have

    and too, i did want ot revamp the offense and nto have 6,000 passes for 4 yards and have a big reliable fast guy take 2 defenders with him on every play on the outside (not lloyd).

    so its a big risk. but there is a chance we can be better.

    there might have been a middle ground???

    bring abrahmam and grimes in, sanders im ehh. more proven than a rookie, but not the size i want in say a da rick rogers.

     



    If you gotta have size size size why not advocate engs guy Nelson and draft hunter. They both make Hopkins and Rogers seem small if the difference of a few inches matters that much.

     

     

     

     

    hi low,


    well cause obviously its not just size.

    re rogers try this:

    "Rogers is a virtual Julio Jones clone, exhibiting an exciting combination of size, strength and explosiveness." (draft scout)

    and due to his pot issue got kicked off tenesse and is projected to bew in 3rd rd.

    (and 6 3' 220 aint bad :)

    hunter could be a big player too.

    hopkins i think may be more likely a star and has more skils.

    (ps hunter is only 1 inch taller than rogers and 2 " taller than hopkins)

     



    Hi bred,

     

     

    I was just having a lil fun with you and that was my point. You saying ps this guy is only 1 inch or 2 inches taller does not matter, when comparing Hunter to Hopkins and Rogers. 

    (ps I was expecting and hoping for that response to illustrate the mindset)

    Its the same thing when I say to you or others that Hopkins or rodgers is only 1 or 2 inches taller than the 5'11 or 6' guys.

    1 -2 inches is 1-2 inches is my only point. Weather it is comparing from 5'11 to 6'1 or 6'1 to 6'3.

    As you mentioned, it's not all about size.

    I do like both Hopkins and Rodgers. Anyone seen any wonderlic scores this season or did they replace that test with something new? If so what was the name of the new test?

     



    seen and heard no scores yet. the difference low with a 6 2" or bigger receiver, esp with long arms, is that they have an advantage over most of the league's cbs who are not 6 2" to 6 5".

     

    vs a 5  8 to 5 10 or 11 receiver.

    further my desire for a big body, with speed shoulkd be obviouis whenyou consider how uncoverable gronk is or ifg you watch or play basketball (its much harder ot block out or to defend a bigger body form the ball, and easier for them to block you  (a cb) out.

     



    I hear. All things being equal, who wouldn't want the bigger.

     

    As with everything so many things to take into account besides height.

    Strength

    Arm length

    body control

    hand size (helps in cold weather)

    intelligence ( Imentioned elswhere that the yr McD took Thoomas and Decker they had the #1 and 2 wonderlic scores for WR's I believe)

    "willingness" to block

    Verticals (many times some of the 6'2 guys have low 30 verts and the 5'11 guys might have 40 inch verts)

    ..and probably others I am not thinking of.

    Also I know Boldin had an amazing post season but his regular season was far from amazing. 65 catches, 4 TD's, less than 1000 yards. That's basically what we got out of Lloyd.

     



    i agree with the list  you postedof qualities and I AM AND DO FACTOR ALL THOSE IN.

     

    and this year (and last) choosing wrs who have all of teh above AND  who are in the 6 2" or bigger range (ideally) and 210 or bigger ideally.

    see here:

     

    NFL Combine Live: Da’Rick Rogers Delivers Best Overall Performance Displaying Speed, Agility, Explosiveness

    Read more at: http://nesn.com/2013/02/nfl-combine-live-tavon-austin-among-prospects-to-watch-during-day-4-drills-2/

    40 inch vert

    9.5 inch hands

    6.71 cone

    4.06 shuttle

     

    and more than that, you can see his bidy control and abilty to snag in traffic on the field.

    hopkins ability is easily apparent as well. nunter somewhat so as well on the field with less polish at this  time, so a potential backup plan to rogers.

     

     



    I hear you Bred, no need to sell the player. I posted my list of guys a very long time ago. Rogers was one of the WR that I had in bold.

     

    I already knew about Rogers performance. I keep my own spreadsheet going back a number of years and quickly can see which plays each year perform in the top percentage historically of their positions as an "Athlete".

    I would like to hear MB's info on intelligence and leadership/character with regards to him. I am always to lazy to go dig that info up but MB does a good job with that.



    good stuff low.

    character and maturity this guy has some work to do on, thats why hes notp a first rounder :)

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Updated mock draft from me:

    I'm making a couple of assumption here so bare with me:

    1. The Pats will trade Mallett and part of the compensation will be a 3rd at the minimum
    2. Other then maybe a pass rushing specialist and bringing back Vollmer they are essentially done in FA

    #29 - Jonathan Hankins DT Ohio - If Hankins is there he's the pick. He's a big strong presence next to Vince who is use to taking on dbl teams on every down. He can push the pocket and put pressure on QB's but is also extremely good in run defense. He'd make an excellent addition and a future Wilfork replacement

    alt - Jenkins/J. Williams DT - I'd take either honestly and both could be an option if Hankins doesn't make it to #29

    #59 - Da'Rick Rogers WR Tenn Tech - If they don't get more WR's via FA then Rogers makes a ton of sense. Top 20 talent in the back of the 2nd has #1 Z flanker upside with the combo of size, speed, hands, and route running ability. Best yet is he doesn't mind getting dirty by blocking or fighting for the ball. Provided his drug history is behind him then he should be the pick in the 2nd

    alt - Darius Slay CB - he could or couldn't be at the back of the 2nd but adds great depth

    3rd from Mallet trade - Markus Wheaton WR Oregon State - If Rogers is the first WR the Pats get Wheaton could be the secondary as they build outside the numbers WR's. Wheaton has explosive speed, is a Branch type route runner, and has reliable hands. He's essentially this years version of Torrey Smith. This would completely revamp  the O and dbl down on WR ensuring at least one will give some production in 13'

    alt - Will Davis CB - notice a trend yet? I'm focusing on dbling up either the CB position or the WR position because they are the thinnest right now and I do think BB will dbl up on one or the other and Davis is a good canidate that can play inside or out

    #91 - DJ Hayden CB U Hou - BB tends to take risks in the late 3rd-6th range on players who have fallen due to injury or drug related issues. Hayden falls over heart concerns but he's a top end CB. I've been unsure about him because of that heart condition but from recent reports he might be worth taking the risk. He's considered anywhere from a back end of the 2nd round to completely off draft boards prospect depending on how his medicals check out.

    alt -  Sanders via RFA - just as good of an option as any

    7th - Jeef Braun T West Virginia - A starter for one of the best O's in college with Smith as his QB Braun did an admerial job at T. He needs some work but with Scar I see Kaczur upside in the kid with the ability to play 4 positions on the OL. Worth investing into Braun as the ultimate swing man for a team that loves versitility

    7th - Jeff Tuel QB Washington State - They could bring in a vet the replace Mallett but they could also bring in this kid. If an injury didn't derail his 11' season he wouldn't have been platooned in 12' but it happened. This kid has the physical and mental tools to be a starting caliber QB in the Pro's but his stock will suffer because of the platoon and 11' injury. Seems like the low risk high reward QB's the Pats tend to look for and to develop. Similar to Cassel and Brady before him



    Hard not to like that and think you have made some correct assumptions and good estimations on where these kids will go. 

    In the end, I hope they do land sanders with one of their thirds and go into the season with he and Rogers. I feel better with another vet added here instead of 2 rooks and 2 vets, 1 of which has an injury history, the other not sure what we will get. 

    The mallet trade is key. Without it, bb mar forego round 1 all together and that could have a domino effect on the rest of your picks. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to Faucetman's comment:

     

    I've gotta say, I am not happy with how our WR situation is shaping up.  Right now we have Amendola instead of Welker and Jones instead of Lloyd.  Both significant downgrades. We take two durable guys with better production and replace them with guys who have injury/health issues.  With our two less-than-durable TEs, I could see us in big trouble if these guys start to drop like flies.

    Now I'm hearing Edelman could go to San Fran.  That would not be good at all.

    Even if we got Sanders, we have not improved over last year's WR corpes.  The F/A class is getting thin at WR.  Heyward-Bay could be the best option left.  I think we have to draft one WR for sure.  If we don't get Sanders or add another quality F/A WR we need to draft 2 of them in the first 3 rounds. 

    This is looking like 2006 all over again.  Brady cannot be happy.

     



    i dont think its ideal. welker is a tank, virtually indescructable., a team first guy, i could see letting him go if we went and paid jennings 8 mil per year on a big contract. otherwise paying wes 2yrs -16 was a safeer way to go. amendola has more talent than wes probably and better hands, but its a gamblel that he stays healthy. he broke his chest open diving to the turf. we'll see.

     

    whether we had lloyd or jones, we are going to need a big outside wr.

    been saying for a few weeks, we shoudl get all our needs ie cb, pass rusher, o line, and if dt needed, in fa and take pass rusher and 2 big wrs in the draft (hopkins / rogers or similar)

    trade mallet, use 2014 picks, whatever.

    facuet i agree, wood, edelman, wlekr, lloyd were more reliable proven guys than what we have

    and too, i did want ot revamp the offense and nto have 6,000 passes for 4 yards and have a big reliable fast guy take 2 defenders with him on every play on the outside (not lloyd).

    so its a big risk. but there is a chance we can be better.

    there might have been a middle ground???

    bring abrahmam and grimes in, sanders im ehh. more proven than a rookie, but not the size i want in say a da rick rogers.

     



    If you gotta have size size size why not advocate engs guy Nelson and draft hunter. They both make Hopkins and Rogers seem small if the difference of a few inches matters that much.

     

     

     

     

    hi low,


    well cause obviously its not just size.

    re rogers try this:

    "Rogers is a virtual Julio Jones clone, exhibiting an exciting combination of size, strength and explosiveness." (draft scout)

    and due to his pot issue got kicked off tenesse and is projected to bew in 3rd rd.

    (and 6 3' 220 aint bad :)

    hunter could be a big player too.

    hopkins i think may be more likely a star and has more skils.

    (ps hunter is only 1 inch taller than rogers and 2 " taller than hopkins)

     



    Hi bred,

     

     

    I was just having a lil fun with you and that was my point. You saying ps this guy is only 1 inch or 2 inches taller does not matter, when comparing Hunter to Hopkins and Rogers. 

    (ps I was expecting and hoping for that response to illustrate the mindset)

    Its the same thing when I say to you or others that Hopkins or rodgers is only 1 or 2 inches taller than the 5'11 or 6' guys.

    1 -2 inches is 1-2 inches is my only point. Weather it is comparing from 5'11 to 6'1 or 6'1 to 6'3.

    As you mentioned, it's not all about size.

    I do like both Hopkins and Rodgers. Anyone seen any wonderlic scores this season or did they replace that test with something new? If so what was the name of the new test?

     



    seen and heard no scores yet. the difference low with a 6 2" or bigger receiver, esp with long arms, is that they have an advantage over most of the league's cbs who are not 6 2" to 6 5".

     

    vs a 5  8 to 5 10 or 11 receiver.

    further my desire for a big body, with speed shoulkd be obviouis whenyou consider how uncoverable gronk is or ifg you watch or play basketball (its much harder ot block out or to defend a bigger body form the ball, and easier for them to block you  (a cb) out.

     



    I hear. All things being equal, who wouldn't want the bigger.

     

    As with everything so many things to take into account besides height.

    Strength

    Arm length

    body control

    hand size (helps in cold weather)

    intelligence ( Imentioned elswhere that the yr McD took Thoomas and Decker they had the #1 and 2 wonderlic scores for WR's I believe)

    "willingness" to block

    Verticals (many times some of the 6'2 guys have low 30 verts and the 5'11 guys might have 40 inch verts)

    ..and probably others I am not thinking of.

    Also I know Boldin had an amazing post season but his regular season was far from amazing. 65 catches, 4 TD's, less than 1000 yards. That's basically what we got out of Lloyd.

     



    i agree with the list  you postedof qualities and I AM AND DO FACTOR ALL THOSE IN.

     

    and this year (and last) choosing wrs who have all of teh above AND  who are in the 6 2" or bigger range (ideally) and 210 or bigger ideally.

    see here:

     

    NFL Combine Live: Da’Rick Rogers Delivers Best Overall Performance Displaying Speed, Agility, Explosiveness

    Read more at: http://nesn.com/2013/02/nfl-combine-live-tavon-austin-among-prospects-to-watch-during-day-4-drills-2/

    40 inch vert

    9.5 inch hands

    6.71 cone

    4.06 shuttle

     

    and more than that, you can see his bidy control and abilty to snag in traffic on the field.

    hopkins ability is easily apparent as well. nunter somewhat so as well on the field with less polish at this  time, so a potential backup plan to rogers.

     

     



    I hear you Bred, no need to sell the player. I posted my list of guys a very long time ago. Rogers was one of the WR that I had in bold.

     

    I already knew about Rogers performance. I keep my own spreadsheet going back a number of years and quickly can see which plays each year perform in the top percentage historically of their positions as an "Athlete".

    I would like to hear MB's info on intelligence and leadership/character with regards to him. I am always to lazy to go dig that info up but MB does a good job with that.

     



    I've seen the word "enigma" thrown around with him... has the size/speed/skill to be a very good player, but can be inconsistent, have concentrations lapses and might have a bit of the diva mentality ("it's more about him on the field").  Overall, I think y'all have it nailed pretty good for the most part... def maturity/consistency concerns, but a lot of natural ability... seems like a well spoken kid for the most part.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    hey MB there are sites mocking Robert Woods to be our 29th pick I don`t like these mocks, what do u think about it?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

     

    hey MB there are sites mocking Robert Woods to be our 29th pick I don`t like these mocks, what do u think about it?

     




    Too rich for my blood on Woods... would be happy to land him with their 2nd rounder, but not Rd 1.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

     

    hey MB there are sites mocking Robert Woods to be our 29th pick I don`t like these mocks, what do u think about it?

     




    Too rich for my blood on Woods.  Def Rd 2 type for me... would be happy to land him with their 2nd rounder, but not Rd 1.

     



    Yes, he isn`t a Rd 1 value

     
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