***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

     

     

    Interesting.......

    http://www.scardraft.com/scott-carasiks-mock-draft/

    Round 1

    29. New England Patriots: WR Stedman Bailey (West Virginia) JR, 5’10-1/4″, 193 pounds

    Round 2

    27. New England Patriots: DE Margus Hunt (Southern Methodist) SR, 6’8-1/8″, 277 pounds

    Round 3

    29. New England Patriots: WR Markus Wheaton (Oregon State) SR, 5’11″, 189 pounds

     




     

    I see Bailey as a Rd 1 talent and have posted as such, though I'm still big on the idea of targeting one of the better DT's in this class, continuing to improve along the LOS... then targeting WR and CB.

    Now if the DT's are gone, then I'd have no prob snagging a WR in Rd 1 or trading back a bit.

     



    whoa whoa whoa slow down. i like bailey as much as the next guy, but 1st round? no way man! 

     

     




     

    That's your opinion... I think he's a Rd 1 talent... Not saying he'll be taken there, but I think he has the skill set to be.

     



    what round did you have him pegged for prior to last week? lol 

     

     



    Had him as a Rd 2-3 kid on my posted board for a while... moved him up to Rd 2 with Rd 1 upside as I dug into him more... at the end of the day, I think he's off the board at some point in Rd 2.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    Here is another mock from Charlie Campbell at walterfootball.com

    he has us taking

    1. Kawaan Short

    2. Margus Hunt

    3. Ryan Swope

    not a bad haul, but in his mock Hankins and Jenkins are there at 29....and Derrick Rogers is there in the 3rd. 

    Sorry to say MB, he has the Phins taking our guy Stedman Bailey...

    http://walterfootball.com/draft2013charlie_1.php

     

     



    Interesting but not sure I'd want Short. I still have questions on his motor. I saw plenty of times when he'd get locked into an OL and essentially be happy being blocked out of the play. He really didn't put in a ton of effort when doubled up either. I'd much rather have a higher motor guy. Give me Hankins/Jenkins/either Williams any day of the week. 

     

    Hunt is an interesting pick. I'm assuming they believe Abraham won't sign. Which I'd be pissed at. With all the pass rushers in FA and the low end prices they are going for the Pats don't pick one up would confuse me. Same way as the CB all went cheap this past year for starters and they essentially didn't take advantage of it. I sometimes wonder if BB has to much confidence in Ras because he doesn't want to believe a #33 pick was wasted and have another high picked wasted on a CB that failed.

    Swope is a nice player but to me he's an average #2 upside type of player that will be a slot guy for the rest of his career. The weird Pat for the Pats is they have been almost completely reliant on the slot WR for 3-4 years now but they don't have it as a valuable position. It might explain why they were comfortable letting one of the best slot guys in the game walk for basically peanuts. I'd much rather have Rogers who has a #1 type of upside in the Z flanker position.

    Again though I'm very disappointed they didn't get a CB in this mock. I really believe they need someone to take over for Talib next year and also someone to backup the outside CB position. I really don't want to see McCourty moved out of the FS position nor do I ever want to see Arrington being moved from the star position. I have no faith Ras can stay healthy and the leaves essentially Col.... hrm person in section 325 row AA seat 5?

     



    I am not a fan of this mock at all. I do agree with taking Rogers over Swope if they are both there. I prefer bailey over both however. 

     

    The pats need to make 1 more significant move in FA...cb, de or WR. 

    If they pay Abraham , skip drafting a de this year and focus on DT (jwilliams), grab a cb, and if sanders is still being considered, perhaps hIm for our third. They could also bring in a vet cb, use 1& 2 on DT and de, a third for sanders again. I agree with LOW on okafor. I like him over hunt at this point. Jwilliams, okafor, trade for sanders and sign a vet cb...I like the sound of that.

    mb...how do you see bailey as compared to trading for sanders?  3rd for sanders plus contract vs a 2nd probably for bailey plus manageable contract. Tough decision here. 

     



    Hey PL,

     

    It's a good question... what I can say is that I think Bailey is a better prospect leading up to the draft than Sanders was and has done it against a better level of comp (really gave LSU/Claiborne troubles in 2011 as well)... I also think he could be the better player in both the short (think he has the the potential to impact fairly quickly) and long term (both financially and production wise).

    Give the choice, I'd take Bailey in Rd 2 vs. spending the Rd 3 on Sanders.

     



    That's a really tough one for me. Need to 1st know the size of the contract Sanders would require vs the size of contract Bailey would get, depending on where you ultimately drafted him. Also not knowing where exactly you could get Bailey "guaranteed".

     

    If you "really" want Bailey you might have to take him in the 1st. There is no guarantee you would get him at the end of rnd 2. You would, however, be guaranteed to get Sanders at the end of rnd 3 and not have to sweat it out for even a moment.

    The only other thing is that it is hard to compare the two at the time of coming out of college. Their production is so very similar. On the one hand you have Bailey playing against better competition than Sanders. While on the other hand Bailey also benefitted from not only one but TWO other 1st round draft picks playing with him. Sanders did not. How much was Baileys production aided by Geno Smith throwing him the ball AND Tavon Austin taking some of the attention and focus of defenses away from him?

    It's certainly not an easy one to decide on.



    I like him, but wouldn't want to use a first on him. I have seen him rated on a few sites in the top 10 of wr's and agree he may not last until bottom of round 2.

    i get your college comparisons with sanders, but bailey would also benefit from having Brady throw to him, and Gronk, Hern and amendola on the field with him. i think he would be productive out of the gate like sanders. He is just the type of route runner tb and bb love, and he catches everything with his hands. I don't think he is a #1 WR, but he clearly is a 2 or 3 and in our offense we don't need it as much as others because of our te's . I compare him to Cruz. When I see bailey run, he is smooth like Cruz, gets in and out of breaks fast and knows how to work the field and CB's.

    i think it would be safe to grab him in the middle of round 2. I think he lasts that long. However, if our goal (assuming) is to grab a stud DT, we should probably pick sooner than later. 

    You covered this before...do the pats think they need one of the monster dt's this year? That to me will dictate how this draft flows. If not, much more flex to trade down, grab bailey with a mid second, and still have your last second to grab a cb or BPA. If the pats think they need at DT, I don't think they can stay too far from 29 to get quality. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    Here is another mock from Charlie Campbell at walterfootball.com

    he has us taking

    1. Kawaan Short

    2. Margus Hunt

    3. Ryan Swope

    not a bad haul, but in his mock Hankins and Jenkins are there at 29....and Derrick Rogers is there in the 3rd. 

    Sorry to say MB, he has the Phins taking our guy Stedman Bailey...

    http://walterfootball.com/draft2013charlie_1.php

     

     



    Interesting but not sure I'd want Short. I still have questions on his motor. I saw plenty of times when he'd get locked into an OL and essentially be happy being blocked out of the play. He really didn't put in a ton of effort when doubled up either. I'd much rather have a higher motor guy. Give me Hankins/Jenkins/either Williams any day of the week. 

     

    Hunt is an interesting pick. I'm assuming they believe Abraham won't sign. Which I'd be pissed at. With all the pass rushers in FA and the low end prices they are going for the Pats don't pick one up would confuse me. Same way as the CB all went cheap this past year for starters and they essentially didn't take advantage of it. I sometimes wonder if BB has to much confidence in Ras because he doesn't want to believe a #33 pick was wasted and have another high picked wasted on a CB that failed.

    Swope is a nice player but to me he's an average #2 upside type of player that will be a slot guy for the rest of his career. The weird Pat for the Pats is they have been almost completely reliant on the slot WR for 3-4 years now but they don't have it as a valuable position. It might explain why they were comfortable letting one of the best slot guys in the game walk for basically peanuts. I'd much rather have Rogers who has a #1 type of upside in the Z flanker position.

    Again though I'm very disappointed they didn't get a CB in this mock. I really believe they need someone to take over for Talib next year and also someone to backup the outside CB position. I really don't want to see McCourty moved out of the FS position nor do I ever want to see Arrington being moved from the star position. I have no faith Ras can stay healthy and the leaves essentially Col.... hrm person in section 325 row AA seat 5?

     



    I am not a fan of this mock at all. I do agree with taking Rogers over Swope if they are both there. I prefer bailey over both however. 

     

    The pats need to make 1 more significant move in FA...cb, de or WR. 

    If they pay Abraham , skip drafting a de this year and focus on DT (jwilliams), grab a cb, and if sanders is still being considered, perhaps hIm for our third. They could also bring in a vet cb, use 1& 2 on DT and de, a third for sanders again. I agree with LOW on okafor. I like him over hunt at this point. Jwilliams, okafor, trade for sanders and sign a vet cb...I like the sound of that.

    mb...how do you see bailey as compared to trading for sanders?  3rd for sanders plus contract vs a 2nd probably for bailey plus manageable contract. Tough decision here. 

     



    Hey PL,

     

    It's a good question... what I can say is that I think Bailey is a better prospect leading up to the draft than Sanders was and has done it against a better level of comp (really gave LSU/Claiborne troubles in 2011 as well)... I also think he could be the better player in both the short (think he has the the potential to impact fairly quickly) and long term (both financially and production wise).

    Given the choice, I'd take Bailey in Rd 2 vs. spending the Rd 3 on Sanders.



    ditto on the top wrs available 1-2 rds

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    guys that know schraeger, read it and weep.

    at 29 the patriots select...

    http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/story/FOXSportscoms-NFL-mock-draft?blockID=886109&feedID=3801

     

    if we got abraham, a legit fa press cb AND got a 2 for mallet,

    maybe we could go de, then dt and wr (a la rogers) in rd2 (Alternatively 2 wrs in rd 2), then bpa rd3

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    the pulse at the moment seems to be that tank and syl williams will be available at or around 29 when pats pick and wise mockers giving pats one or the other (both my pats pick otpions for rd 1) and some giving detone jones (who has also been on my short list for 29 after carradine and before okafor)  

    de, penetrating dt or big outsiide wr. all of the above, the perfect fantasy.

    (at wr my top tier for the pats picks reamain hopkins and rogers)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Well with the signings of Porter, Grimes, and Nnamdi recent it looks like the CB market is pretty much dead. Given the progression of the league I don't see any quality CB's entering the secondary market like other positions. For me this basically points to having to take a CB in the draft. The question is when? The Pats tend to like to take CBs in the 2nd (early to mid). I'm hoping this doesn't point to trading back the 1st for a mid 2nd and 4th but that scenerio is likely. If true then we won't be taking a DT early nor DE. It also suggests to me that they would double down on both WR's and CB's.

    I remember someone bringing up what DL's people saw in the late round so I went over some players:

     

    Montori Hughes DT Tenn-Martin 6'4" 330lb: If not for off-field issues which resulted in him getting booted out of Tenn he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round pick. Not overly athletic he has tremendous power and a quick burst. He had an impressive senior bowl and from reports looked great in position drills. He's been inconsistent but has very high upside if he can mature.

    Quanterus Smith DE W Kentucky 6'5" 250lb: Another day 2 kid who's stock has dropped because of a late season ending ACL tear. Prior to the ACL injury he was dominanting his conference with 12.5 sacks and 18.5 TFL. The more impressive thing was that he absolutely owned Fluker with 3 sacks against Ala. His sacks came in bunches showing a lot of inconsistency but when they came they were impressive against some of the better OLs in the country. He's a bit of a tweener but if he can add 15lbs during rehab he could become a passing rushing 43 DE specialist.

    David Bess DE W Missouri State 6'4" 262lb: If you are looking for a small school sleeper this might be the kid. He has been very consistent in pass rushing and has well developed moves. He had 14.5 sacks in 2011 and 11.5 in 2012. He had a good Shrine game beating some of the better Ts in 1v1 drills.

    Nick Williams DT Samford 6'4" 310lbs: Only playing 1 year of football in high school and going to a smaller school he is easily overlooked. He doesn't have the best stats and you might not even find his name on any draft board but at the combine I watch his position drills and came away fairly impressed. He was fluid and had a focused drive. He showed some power and ability that I didn't even see in some of the bigger named prospects. Coming from a school no one has ever heard of and having no real training in high school I'm sure this kid is as raw as they come but he has some athletic ability.

    Chris Jones DE/DT Bowling Green 6'2" 300lbs: On the smaller side and not that gifted athletically this kid could have the highest motor out of anyone in the draft. He's relentless at the line and is extremely consistent from play to play. He has amazing short area quickness and has developed great use of leverage because of his smaller size. He just wears down lineman giving max effort with every play. He's one of the few in the country for DL who typically work in the A and B gaps to put up double digit sacks and has consistently improved with every year he's played. He might end up being a good roational DL player moving inside and out but his lack of natural athletic ability is going to limit his ceiling

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Well with the signings of Porter, Grimes, and Nnamdi recent it looks like the CB market is pretty much dead. Given the progression of the league I don't see any quality CB's entering the secondary market like other positions. For me this basically points to having to take a CB in the draft. The question is when? The Pats tend to like to take CBs in the 2nd (early to mid). I'm hoping this doesn't point to trading back the 1st for a mid 2nd and 4th but that scenerio is likely. If true then we won't be taking a DT early nor DE. It also suggests to me that they would double down on both WR's and CB's.

    I remember someone bringing up what DL's people saw in the late round so I went over some players:

     

    Montori Hughes DT Tenn-Martin 6'4" 330lb: If not for off-field issues which resulted in him getting booted out of Tenn he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round pick. Not overly athletic he has tremendous power and a quick burst. He had an impressive senior bowl and from reports looked great in position drills. He's been inconsistent but has very high upside if he can mature.

    Quanterus Smith DE W Kentucky 6'5" 250lb: Another day 2 kid who's stock has dropped because of a late season ending ACL tear. Prior to the ACL injury he was dominanting his conference with 12.5 sacks and 18.5 TFL. The more impressive thing was that he absolutely owned Fluker with 3 sacks against Ala. His sacks came in bunches showing a lot of inconsistency but when they came they were impressive against some of the better OLs in the country. He's a bit of a tweener but if he can add 15lbs during rehab he could become a passing rushing 43 DE specialist.

    David Bess DE W Missouri State 6'4" 262lb: If you are looking for a small school sleeper this might be the kid. He has been very consistent in pass rushing and has well developed moves. He had 14.5 sacks in 2011 and 11.5 in 2012. He had a good Shrine game beating some of the better Ts in 1v1 drills.

    Nick Williams DT Samford 6'4" 310lbs: Only playing 1 year of football in high school and going to a smaller school he is easily overlooked. He doesn't have the best stats and you might not even find his name on any draft board but at the combine I watch his position drills and came away fairly impressed. He was fluid and had a focused drive. He showed some power and ability that I didn't even see in some of the bigger named prospects. Coming from a school no one has ever heard of and having no real training in high school I'm sure this kid is as raw as they come but he has some athletic ability.

    Chris Jones DE/DT Bowling Green 6'2" 300lbs: On the smaller side and not that gifted athletically this kid could have the highest motor out of anyone in the draft. He's relentless at the line and is extremely consistent from play to play. He has amazing short area quickness and has developed great use of leverage because of his smaller size. He just wears down lineman giving max effort with every play. He's one of the few in the country for DL who typically work in the A and B gaps to put up double digit sacks and has consistently improved with every year he's played. He might end up being a good roational DL player moving inside and out but his lack of natural athletic ability is going to limit his ceiling



    Hey Eng,

    For you personally, is the CB need a question of you believing Ras-I is physically finished? Dennard will go to jail for too long? or that you want another starting caliber CB behind the three starters we have, again because you think Ras-I is finished?

    Just a honest serious question of where you are at with the CB situation. I am not sure where I am myself.

    We have three starters. However Talib has his own injury history to think about. Dennard "could" go to jail for a longer time period. Ras-I might get hurt again.

    However Talib "could" stay healthy. Dennard "might" not go to jail. ...and Ras-I "could" finally be and stay healthy.

    If the later happened then you would basically have four starters. If you look around the league that is pretty good depth in that scenario comparatively speaking.

    There is a lot of uncertainty there but I am not sure I'm convinced they really need to draft a CB high even without signing a vet in FA.

    What are your thoughts?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    Hey Eng,

     

    For you personally, is the CB need a question of you believing Ras-I is physically finished? Dennard will go to jail for too long? or that you want another starting caliber CB behind the three starters we have, again because you think Ras-I is finished?

    Just a honest serious question of where you are at with the CB situation. I am not sure where I am myself.

    We have three starters. However Talib has his own injury history to think about. Dennard "could" go to jail for a longer time period. Ras-I might get hurt again.

    However Talib "could" stay healthy. Dennard "might" not go to jail. ...and Ras-I "could" finally be and stay healthy.

    If the later happened then you would basically have four starters. If you look around the league that is pretty good depth in that scenario comparatively speaking.

    There is a lot of uncertainty there but I am not sure I'm convinced they really need to draft a CB high even without signing a vet in FA.

    What are your thoughts?



    Hey Low,

    I have zero faith Ras can last a season truthfully. I really didn't want Ras before the draft because of the type of injures he was having in college. A bunch of nagging leg injures which to me translated into trouble. after 2 years with him only playing 8 games I wouldn't trust him to be more then a 5th CB right now. As such given that you need 3 solid starters in todays league and I view Arrignton as a star position player only which means I have concerns over depth. Esp considering Talib has never finished a 16 game season in his pro career and the specter of Dennard missing games through either jail time or suspension (which I don't think will happen but I'm an old Boy Scout). Being optimistic is great but being realistic wins games.

    The other factor I'm considering is Talib is only on a one year deal. After this year he may be gone, whether for locker room stuff or by asking price being to high. Personally I've always like the notion of planning ahead and getting players in place to replace players you may lose (ie Solder to replace Light).

    The thing I was always taught was the more coulds/woulds/shoulds/ifs in your statement the higher risk something is going to go wrong and the weaker your overall statement. Again old boy scout, hope for the best plan for the worst you never want to be caught with your pants down. And if you don't look at the past for a guideline to what the future may hold you'll be reaching for your pants a lot.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

     

    Hey Eng,

     

    For you personally, is the CB need a question of you believing Ras-I is physically finished? Dennard will go to jail for too long? or that you want another starting caliber CB behind the three starters we have, again because you think Ras-I is finished?

    Just a honest serious question of where you are at with the CB situation. I am not sure where I am myself.

    We have three starters. However Talib has his own injury history to think about. Dennard "could" go to jail for a longer time period. Ras-I might get hurt again.

    However Talib "could" stay healthy. Dennard "might" not go to jail. ...and Ras-I "could" finally be and stay healthy.

    If the later happened then you would basically have four starters. If you look around the league that is pretty good depth in that scenario comparatively speaking.

    There is a lot of uncertainty there but I am not sure I'm convinced they really need to draft a CB high even without signing a vet in FA.

    What are your thoughts?

     



    Hey Low,

     

    I have zero faith Ras can last a season truthfully. I really didn't want Ras before the draft because of the type of injures he was having in college. A bunch of nagging leg injures which to me translated into trouble. after 2 years with him only playing 8 games I wouldn't trust him to be more then a 5th CB right now. As such given that you need 3 solid starters in todays league and I view Arrignton as a star position player only which means I have concerns over depth. Esp considering Talib has never finished a 16 game season in his pro career and the specter of Dennard missing games through either jail time or suspension (which I don't think will happen but I'm an old Boy Scout). Being optimistic is great but being realistic wins games.

    The other factor I'm considering is Talib is only on a one year deal. After this year he may be gone, whether for locker room stuff or by asking price being to high. Personally I've always like the notion of planning ahead and getting players in place to replace players you may lose (ie Solder to replace Light).

    The thing I was always taught was the more coulds/woulds/shoulds/ifs in your statement the higher risk something is going to go wrong and the weaker your overall statement. Again old boy scout, hope for the best plan for the worst you never want to be caught with your pants down. And if you don't look at the past for a guideline to what the future may hold you'll be reaching for your pants a lot.



    I actually thought of the Talib 1 yr deal as well but it fell back to what they believe about Ras-I. If Ras-I is finihsed then the 1 year is something to plan for. If they had faith he would finally be healthy going forward then they already have Talibs replacement if they could not resign him, if they wanted to.

    To me that is one of the more interesting things about watching the Patriots draft.

    To really see what they themselves think of their own positional depths compared to what public perception is sometimes.

    You just never know with them.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    I

    I actually thought of the Talib 1 yr deal as well but it fell back to what they believe about Ras-I. If Ras-I is finihsed then the 1 year is something to plan for. If they had faith he would finally be healthy going forward then they already have Talibs replacement if they could not resign him, if they wanted to.

    To me that is one of the more interesting things about watching the Patriots draft.

    To really see what they themselves think of their own positional depths compared to what public perception is sometimes.

    You just never know with them.



    This is going to be an interesting thing to watch. To me there are some positions where they think they have more depth then they really have. CB's and WR's are the two most glaring to me. They build great depth at OL and even DL year after year (though the talent difference between the starters and depth at DL is alarming when you watch them). But at WR and CB they have never really been great at building depth nor picking players since the SB years. If they had better depth there would have been no need to have to trade for Talib last season. But, because of the alarming lack of depth they had to turn McCourty into a ping pong ball going from FS to CB, use Arrington an alarming amount of times on the outside, and had players like Williams/Cole as the star which really did hurt them underneath. It leads to no consistency game to game at a position that almost demands continuity for chemistry.

    I think last year people were generally happy thinking between Dennard, Arrington, Ras, and McCourty we had solid depth with the CB's but it ended up being paper thin and in the end fell apart when Ras couldn't perform (lets face it 2 years in a row and college, injury prone is injury prone), McCourty made the move to FS, and Arrington couldn't handle playing outside.

    Same with the WR core in reality. Wes, Lloyd, Branch, Stallworth, Gaffney going into camp then adding some fringe roster players like Salas it seemed like we would have good WR depth. But again it turned out what they thought was depth ended up being a major weakness. Thankfully Lloyd and Wes stayed healthy all season but imagine if one of them went down and Branch had to be a starter and Slater was your #3 WR. This year Lloyd's been replaced by Jones, Welker by Amendola and nether replacement is known for being the healthiest players on the field. What's even scarier is the people behind them currently are Jenkins and Slater. That scares the heck out of me for durability issues. Now I'm hoping they can pick up a durable WR in the draft (not someone with multiple injures in college like Tate) and they could move Hern to WR with Ballard but to me that's another position that's paper thin right now.

    Imo CB and WR need at least 1 player each that has fringe starter ability this year and high upside for the future. Given the current FA market I don't see who that could be. Maybe not as much for WR but I was very disappointed they didn't target someone at CB given the vet starters available and the dirt cheap prices they were going for. So, to me that means you have to turn to the draft which is a scary prospect. To me they need badly a 4th CB, a #2/3 WR, a solid pass rusher, and an interior presence along the DL. Now they can still get Abraham (don't like Freeney his game has slowed down and the majority of his ability was based around that speed) but I'm not seeing much else out there for the other positions. With only 3 picks in the top 96 they almost have to hit on all 3 or risk ending up in a similar situation as they did last year with both the WR and CB cores. Praying they stay healthy and maybe forced to make a trade for a player other teams don't want and hoping they can give you a half a season of production.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Well with the signings of Porter, Grimes, and Nnamdi recent it looks like the CB market is pretty much dead. Given the progression of the league I don't see any quality CB's entering the secondary market like other positions. For me this basically points to having to take a CB in the draft. The question is when? The Pats tend to like to take CBs in the 2nd (early to mid). I'm hoping this doesn't point to trading back the 1st for a mid 2nd and 4th but that scenerio is likely. If true then we won't be taking a DT early nor DE. It also suggests to me that they would double down on both WR's and CB's.

    I remember someone bringing up what DL's people saw in the late round so I went over some players:

     

    Montori Hughes DT Tenn-Martin 6'4" 330lb: If not for off-field issues which resulted in him getting booted out of Tenn he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round pick. Not overly athletic he has tremendous power and a quick burst. He had an impressive senior bowl and from reports looked great in position drills. He's been inconsistent but has very high upside if he can mature.

    Quanterus Smith DE W Kentucky 6'5" 250lb: Another day 2 kid who's stock has dropped because of a late season ending ACL tear. Prior to the ACL injury he was dominanting his conference with 12.5 sacks and 18.5 TFL. The more impressive thing was that he absolutely owned Fluker with 3 sacks against Ala. His sacks came in bunches showing a lot of inconsistency but when they came they were impressive against some of the better OLs in the country. He's a bit of a tweener but if he can add 15lbs during rehab he could become a passing rushing 43 DE specialist.

    David Bess DE W Missouri State 6'4" 262lb: If you are looking for a small school sleeper this might be the kid. He has been very consistent in pass rushing and has well developed moves. He had 14.5 sacks in 2011 and 11.5 in 2012. He had a good Shrine game beating some of the better Ts in 1v1 drills.

    Nick Williams DT Samford 6'4" 310lbs: Only playing 1 year of football in high school and going to a smaller school he is easily overlooked. He doesn't have the best stats and you might not even find his name on any draft board but at the combine I watch his position drills and came away fairly impressed. He was fluid and had a focused drive. He showed some power and ability that I didn't even see in some of the bigger named prospects. Coming from a school no one has ever heard of and having no real training in high school I'm sure this kid is as raw as they come but he has some athletic ability.

    Chris Jones DE/DT Bowling Green 6'2" 300lbs: On the smaller side and not that gifted athletically this kid could have the highest motor out of anyone in the draft. He's relentless at the line and is extremely consistent from play to play. He has amazing short area quickness and has developed great use of leverage because of his smaller size. He just wears down lineman giving max effort with every play. He's one of the few in the country for DL who typically work in the A and B gaps to put up double digit sacks and has consistently improved with every year he's played. He might end up being a good roational DL player moving inside and out but his lack of natural athletic ability is going to limit his ceiling

     



     

    Hey PE,

    Good info on some lesser known/discussed prospects... of your list, Jones is a kid that I have on my posted board for the reasons that you mention... love this kid as a potential Day 3 option that can provide some interior passrush when needed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Below is a list of players that are expected to attend the 2013 NFL Draft, (18) in total, not sure if the list will increase or decrease by draft day though I am a bit surprised to see Hunt and Manuel listed as neither ahad projected to be lock Rd 1 kids, but I do understand why they're listed... Watson projects as a LT, so I see why he's included... I could see the NYG's being interested in Hunt, he's the long, athletic, Raw type passrusher that they like to target:

    http://fansided.com/2013/04/03/list-of-players-attending-2013-draft-nfl-draft/

     

    • Barkevious Mingo, Defensive End/Outside Linebacker, LSU
    • Bjoern Werner, Defensive End, Florida State
    • Chance Warmack, Guard, Alabama
    • Cordarrelle Patterson, Wide Receiver, Tennessee
    • Dee Milliner, Cornerback, Alabama
    • DJ Fluker, Offensive Tackle, Alabama
    • EJ Manuel, Quarterback, Florida State
    • Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
    • Ezekial Ansah, Defensive End, BYU
    • Geno Smith, Quarterback, West Virginia
    • Jonathan Cooper, Guard, North Carolina
    • Kenny Vaccaro, Safety, Texas
    • Lane Johnson, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma
    • Luke Joeckel, Offensive Tackle, Texas A&M
    • Margus Hunt, Defensive End, SMU
    • Menelik Watson, Offensive Tackle, Florida State
    • Sharrif Floyd, Defensive Tackle, Florida
    • Tavon Austin, Wide Receiver, West Virginia
    • Xavier Rhodes, Cornerback, Florida State
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    Below is a list of players that are expected to attend the 2013 NFL Draft, (18) in total, not sure if the list will increase or decrease by draft day though I am a bit surprised to see Hunt and Manuel listed as neither ahad projected to be lock Rd 1 kids, but I do understand why they're listed... Watson projects as a LT, so I see why he's included... I could see the NYG's being interested in Hunt, he's the long, athletic, Raw type passrusher that they like to target:

    http://fansided.com/2013/04/03/list-of-players-attending-2013-draft-nfl-draft/

     

    • Barkevious Mingo, Defensive End/Outside Linebacker, LSU
    • Bjoern Werner, Defensive End, Florida State
    • Chance Warmack, Guard, Alabama
    • Cordarrelle Patterson, Wide Receiver, Tennessee
    • Dee Milliner, Cornerback, Alabama
    • DJ Fluker, Offensive Tackle, Alabama
    • EJ Manuel, Quarterback, Florida State
    • Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
    • Ezekial Ansah, Defensive End, BYU
    • Geno Smith, Quarterback, West Virginia
    • Jonathan Cooper, Guard, North Carolina
    • Kenny Vaccaro, Safety, Texas
    • Lane Johnson, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma
    • Luke Joeckel, Offensive Tackle, Texas A&M
    • Margus Hunt, Defensive End, SMU
    • Menelik Watson, Offensive Tackle, Florida State
    • Sharrif Floyd, Defensive Tackle, Florida
    • Tavon Austin, Wide Receiver, West Virginia
    • Xavier Rhodes, Cornerback, Florida State



    Wow. Manuel is a surprising name to attend the draft. Maybe some teams like him more than we know...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    Below is a list of players that are expected to attend the 2013 NFL Draft, (18) in total, not sure if the list will increase or decrease by draft day though I am a bit surprised to see Hunt and Manuel listed as neither ahad projected to be lock Rd 1 kids, but I do understand why they're listed... Watson projects as a LT, so I see why he's included... I could see the NYG's being interested in Hunt, he's the long, athletic, Raw type passrusher that they like to target:

    http://fansided.com/2013/04/03/list-of-players-attending-2013-draft-nfl-draft/

     

    • Barkevious Mingo, Defensive End/Outside Linebacker, LSU
    • Bjoern Werner, Defensive End, Florida State
    • Chance Warmack, Guard, Alabama
    • Cordarrelle Patterson, Wide Receiver, Tennessee
    • Dee Milliner, Cornerback, Alabama
    • DJ Fluker, Offensive Tackle, Alabama
    • EJ Manuel, Quarterback, Florida State
    • Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
    • Ezekial Ansah, Defensive End, BYU
    • Geno Smith, Quarterback, West Virginia
    • Jonathan Cooper, Guard, North Carolina
    • Kenny Vaccaro, Safety, Texas
    • Lane Johnson, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma
    • Luke Joeckel, Offensive Tackle, Texas A&M
    • Margus Hunt, Defensive End, SMU
    • Menelik Watson, Offensive Tackle, Florida State
    • Sharrif Floyd, Defensive Tackle, Florida
    • Tavon Austin, Wide Receiver, West Virginia
    • Xavier Rhodes, Cornerback, Florida State

     



    Wow. Manuel is a surprising name to attend the draft. Maybe some teams like him more than we know...

     



    Seems to fit the image of the new wave of QB, yeah... big, mobile and athletic with a good arm that can prob run some pistol type sets.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Eng,

    agree On cb and WR being glaring needs. I think one of each, a quality vet or draft pick is in order.

    honestly, I want the pats to spend in FA to get Abraham and a vet cb Like jammer, and maybe bring in Kelly as well. That would seem ti fit what bb does, creating max flexibility in the draft as possible. I have never seen or felt bb squeezed in the draft to take a particular position earlier than he wanted..,we can argue if some of the picks warranted where they were chosen...

    if we could bring in Abraham, Kelly and Jammer....or a combo of the 2....I think that is reasonable given our cap space, but I think it would mean moving on from sanders Possibly...or if you wanted sanders, then maybe not Abraham or Kelly. 

     I know this is confusing, but the pats have a ton of options here to do a bit more dealing in FA and leave themselves in perfect position for the draft. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Well with the signings of Porter, Grimes, and Nnamdi recent it looks like the CB market is pretty much dead. Given the progression of the league I don't see any quality CB's entering the secondary market like other positions. For me this basically points to having to take a CB in the draft. The question is when? The Pats tend to like to take CBs in the 2nd (early to mid). I'm hoping this doesn't point to trading back the 1st for a mid 2nd and 4th but that scenerio is likely. If true then we won't be taking a DT early nor DE. It also suggests to me that they would double down on both WR's and CB's.

    I remember someone bringing up what DL's people saw in the late round so I went over some players:

     

    Montori Hughes DT Tenn-Martin 6'4" 330lb: If not for off-field issues which resulted in him getting booted out of Tenn he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round pick. Not overly athletic he has tremendous power and a quick burst. He had an impressive senior bowl and from reports looked great in position drills. He's been inconsistent but has very high upside if he can mature.

    Quanterus Smith DE W Kentucky 6'5" 250lb: Another day 2 kid who's stock has dropped because of a late season ending ACL tear. Prior to the ACL injury he was dominanting his conference with 12.5 sacks and 18.5 TFL. The more impressive thing was that he absolutely owned Fluker with 3 sacks against Ala. His sacks came in bunches showing a lot of inconsistency but when they came they were impressive against some of the better OLs in the country. He's a bit of a tweener but if he can add 15lbs during rehab he could become a passing rushing 43 DE specialist.

    David Bess DE W Missouri State 6'4" 262lb: If you are looking for a small school sleeper this might be the kid. He has been very consistent in pass rushing and has well developed moves. He had 14.5 sacks in 2011 and 11.5 in 2012. He had a good Shrine game beating some of the better Ts in 1v1 drills.

    Nick Williams DT Samford 6'4" 310lbs: Only playing 1 year of football in high school and going to a smaller school he is easily overlooked. He doesn't have the best stats and you might not even find his name on any draft board but at the combine I watch his position drills and came away fairly impressed. He was fluid and had a focused drive. He showed some power and ability that I didn't even see in some of the bigger named prospects. Coming from a school no one has ever heard of and having no real training in high school I'm sure this kid is as raw as they come but he has some athletic ability.

    Chris Jones DE/DT Bowling Green 6'2" 300lbs: On the smaller side and not that gifted athletically this kid could have the highest motor out of anyone in the draft. He's relentless at the line and is extremely consistent from play to play. He has amazing short area quickness and has developed great use of leverage because of his smaller size. He just wears down lineman giving max effort with every play. He's one of the few in the country for DL who typically work in the A and B gaps to put up double digit sacks and has consistently improved with every year he's played. He might end up being a good roational DL player moving inside and out but his lack of natural athletic ability is going to limit his ceiling

     



     

    Hey PE,

    Good info on some lesser known/discussed prospects... of your list, Jones is a kid that I have on my posted board for the reasons that you mention... love this kid as a potential Day 3 option that can provide some interior passrush when needed.



    Do you have geathers on that list? Or is he more of a 4-5 rounder? 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Ok. I think BB should really go for a special, high upside player with our 1st this year. I know that sounds obvious and like a no-brainer, but think about this: sometimes it is easy to make the "safe" pick with that 1st round selection, and truthfully that is often the best way to go. I think BB needs to try to find a special difference maker this year, and I think there will be a few guys available who would fit that mold. Hopkins, Trufant, Ogletree, and Datone Jones are the four guys who I like the best at 29 (who have a realistic chance at being there.) I think that these guys are not just special talents at their respective positions, but also low risk players to boot. As much as I like a lot of the DTs, I think that the overall depth of the position will allow BB to grab a similar talent in the 2nd or 3rd round to which he could get in the 1st.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    Below is a list of players that are expected to attend the 2013 NFL Draft, (18) in total, not sure if the list will increase or decrease by draft day though I am a bit surprised to see Hunt and Manuel listed as neither ahad projected to be lock Rd 1 kids, but I do understand why they're listed... Watson projects as a LT, so I see why he's included... I could see the NYG's being interested in Hunt, he's the long, athletic, Raw type passrusher that they like to target:

    http://fansided.com/2013/04/03/list-of-players-attending-2013-draft-nfl-draft/

     

    • Barkevious Mingo, Defensive End/Outside Linebacker, LSU
    • Bjoern Werner, Defensive End, Florida State
    • Chance Warmack, Guard, Alabama
    • Cordarrelle Patterson, Wide Receiver, Tennessee
    • Dee Milliner, Cornerback, Alabama
    • DJ Fluker, Offensive Tackle, Alabama
    • EJ Manuel, Quarterback, Florida State
    • Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
    • Ezekial Ansah, Defensive End, BYU
    • Geno Smith, Quarterback, West Virginia
    • Jonathan Cooper, Guard, North Carolina
    • Kenny Vaccaro, Safety, Texas
    • Lane Johnson, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma
    • Luke Joeckel, Offensive Tackle, Texas A&M
    • Margus Hunt, Defensive End, SMU
    • Menelik Watson, Offensive Tackle, Florida State
    • Sharrif Floyd, Defensive Tackle, Florida
    • Tavon Austin, Wide Receiver, West Virginia
    • Xavier Rhodes, Cornerback, Florida State

     



    The NFL wouldn't actually take advantage of a prime opportunity to add more attention to one more high profile player who was originally from another country would they? Nah not the NFL. ;-)

     

    It's not like they are trying to grow the game globally or anything. Maybe? No?

    Ahh who know's maybe Hunt just don't have big ego and simply wants the experience of it even if it means hanging around for two days.?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    Below is a list of players that are expected to attend the 2013 NFL Draft, (18) in total, not sure if the list will increase or decrease by draft day though I am a bit surprised to see Hunt and Manuel listed as neither ahad projected to be lock Rd 1 kids, but I do understand why they're listed... Watson projects as a LT, so I see why he's included... I could see the NYG's being interested in Hunt, he's the long, athletic, Raw type passrusher that they like to target:

    http://fansided.com/2013/04/03/list-of-players-attending-2013-draft-nfl-draft/

     

    • Barkevious Mingo, Defensive End/Outside Linebacker, LSU
    • Bjoern Werner, Defensive End, Florida State
    • Chance Warmack, Guard, Alabama
    • Cordarrelle Patterson, Wide Receiver, Tennessee
    • Dee Milliner, Cornerback, Alabama
    • DJ Fluker, Offensive Tackle, Alabama
    • EJ Manuel, Quarterback, Florida State
    • Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
    • Ezekial Ansah, Defensive End, BYU
    • Geno Smith, Quarterback, West Virginia
    • Jonathan Cooper, Guard, North Carolina
    • Kenny Vaccaro, Safety, Texas
    • Lane Johnson, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma
    • Luke Joeckel, Offensive Tackle, Texas A&M
    • Margus Hunt, Defensive End, SMU
    • Menelik Watson, Offensive Tackle, Florida State
    • Sharrif Floyd, Defensive Tackle, Florida
    • Tavon Austin, Wide Receiver, West Virginia
    • Xavier Rhodes, Cornerback, Florida State

     



    Wow. Manuel is a surprising name to attend the draft. Maybe some teams like him more than we know...

     



    he might have a hot girlfriend. Good for TV you know

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    Ok. I think BB should really go for a special, high upside player with our 1st this year. I know that sounds obvious and like a no-brainer, but think about this: sometimes it is easy to make the "safe" pick with that 1st round selection, and truthfully that is often the best way to go. I think BB needs to try to find a special difference maker this year, and I think there will be a few guys available who would fit that mold. Hopkins, Trufant, Ogletree, and Datone Jones are the four guys who I like the best at 29 (who have a realistic chance at being there.) I think that these guys are not just special talents at their respective positions, but also low risk players to boot. As much as I like a lot of the DTs, I think that the overall depth of the position will allow BB to grab a similar talent in the 2nd or 3rd round to which he could get in the 1st.



    In the 1st esp, late in the first I'm always hesistant to take WRs and Cbs in particular. They are such boom or bust players and the success rate is so small it's not even worth taking the risk. For example in the top 50 so far the Pats have had Butler, Ras, and McCourty and none have stayed at CB for the Pats with McCourty being the best moving to FS. For WRs the ratio is even smaller around the league.

    If you bust on 1st round picks it really sets the team up for failure as was evidence in the 07-09 draft years with the Pats. Those poor draft class really caused a ripple effect the Pats are still trying to recover from. When it comes to 1st picks I also go under the assumption that unless it's a QB you stick close to the lines. In otherwords TEs, OL, DL, LBs are the safest to pick and highest hitting.

    Now over NFL history it has shown that some of the top end CB and WR talent is typically found in day 2 and amazingly enough with WR the hit rate sometimes increases from round 1 to round 2. Given that I don't mind taking a shot at a higher end DL player but I'd rather take a risk on a Bailey, Rogers, or Wheaton in the second then a Hopkins or Hunter in the 1st

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Well with the signings of Porter, Grimes, and Nnamdi recent it looks like the CB market is pretty much dead. Given the progression of the league I don't see any quality CB's entering the secondary market like other positions. For me this basically points to having to take a CB in the draft. The question is when? The Pats tend to like to take CBs in the 2nd (early to mid). I'm hoping this doesn't point to trading back the 1st for a mid 2nd and 4th but that scenerio is likely. If true then we won't be taking a DT early nor DE. It also suggests to me that they would double down on both WR's and CB's.

    I remember someone bringing up what DL's people saw in the late round so I went over some players:

     

    Montori Hughes DT Tenn-Martin 6'4" 330lb: If not for off-field issues which resulted in him getting booted out of Tenn he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round pick. Not overly athletic he has tremendous power and a quick burst. He had an impressive senior bowl and from reports looked great in position drills. He's been inconsistent but has very high upside if he can mature.

    Quanterus Smith DE W Kentucky 6'5" 250lb: Another day 2 kid who's stock has dropped because of a late season ending ACL tear. Prior to the ACL injury he was dominanting his conference with 12.5 sacks and 18.5 TFL. The more impressive thing was that he absolutely owned Fluker with 3 sacks against Ala. His sacks came in bunches showing a lot of inconsistency but when they came they were impressive against some of the better OLs in the country. He's a bit of a tweener but if he can add 15lbs during rehab he could become a passing rushing 43 DE specialist.

    David Bess DE W Missouri State 6'4" 262lb: If you are looking for a small school sleeper this might be the kid. He has been very consistent in pass rushing and has well developed moves. He had 14.5 sacks in 2011 and 11.5 in 2012. He had a good Shrine game beating some of the better Ts in 1v1 drills.

    Nick Williams DT Samford 6'4" 310lbs: Only playing 1 year of football in high school and going to a smaller school he is easily overlooked. He doesn't have the best stats and you might not even find his name on any draft board but at the combine I watch his position drills and came away fairly impressed. He was fluid and had a focused drive. He showed some power and ability that I didn't even see in some of the bigger named prospects. Coming from a school no one has ever heard of and having no real training in high school I'm sure this kid is as raw as they come but he has some athletic ability.

    Chris Jones DE/DT Bowling Green 6'2" 300lbs: On the smaller side and not that gifted athletically this kid could have the highest motor out of anyone in the draft. He's relentless at the line and is extremely consistent from play to play. He has amazing short area quickness and has developed great use of leverage because of his smaller size. He just wears down lineman giving max effort with every play. He's one of the few in the country for DL who typically work in the A and B gaps to put up double digit sacks and has consistently improved with every year he's played. He might end up being a good roational DL player moving inside and out but his lack of natural athletic ability is going to limit his ceiling



    Hey PE...

    Good to see some discussion for the late rounds. I think we've beaten early round topics so much. 

    The one that intrigues me most from that list is Jones. If his motor is as good as the writeup makes him out to be he might provide good competition (at least depth) on that pass-rushing interior DL. 

    I have researched Hughes a bit. Not a lot of reviews cover him, but most that I came across has him going around the fifth or sixth. There is a chance he makes it to seventh, but perhaps slim.

    Now, I probably belong to a very tiny minority who would not mind them taking a NT and have VW take on the rusher role. Based on Low's data, it looks like VW did some of it when he was in college. Perhaps he's not too old to do it again. Besides, I have seen him be effective at that at times.

    For this type of pick, I looked at the outliers in terms of size. The common ding is that they play upright. I am speculating that Pats coaches can fix them.

    Arby Jones, Georgia, 6-4, 313 He'd flashed big time talent early on, earning time as a true freshman (eight tackles, two tackles for loss in 2009) and sophomore (34 tackles, including 3.5 for loss while starting six games), including an eye-popping performance against state rival Georgia Tech (16 tackles, including two for loss and a forced fumble) that earned him SEC Defensive Lineman of the Week accolades.

    Rang on Jones: Jones has good quickness off the snap, as well as the lateral agility, balance and power necessary to handle playing inside. His long arms and strength are also conducive to remaining outside as a five-technique defensive end. With exceptional depth up front Georgia constantly rotates their defensive linemen so it is difficult to gauge how well Jones might do with more snaps. He's precisely the type of player whose draft stock is quietly higher with scouts than his media attention might lead one to believe -- but who may not earn the buzz in the scouting community until/if he is given an opportunity to "surprise" in one of the big senior all-star games.

    Quinton Dial, Alabama, 6-6, 318 Currently has an injury. Me on Dial: I am not sure why mock sites speculate him being undrafted. On the few games I saw Alabama, I remember him making pretty nice plays - enough at least for me to remember him. This guy is strong and can penetrate. So unless his injury is something nobody can recover from, I have a hard time understanding why he's being rated so low. 

    Brandon Moore, Texas, 6-5, 322 STRENGTHS: Naturally large man with long limbs and good overall weight distribution. Scheme versatile. Flashes a powerful bull rush to push the pocket. Possesses just average burst but shows surprising straight-line speed once he gets going. Untapped potential. WEAKNESSES: Moore has just average quickness off the snap and plays higher than scouts would like, negating his strength, at times. He lacks top athleticism and needs a clear lane to close on the ball. He suffered a neck injury against Oklahoma (2012) which caused him to be carted off the field and be sent to a local hospital for precautionary purposes. Medical reports will be important

    Because of his length, strength and the fact that he has been successful inside as a 4-3 defensive tackle and outside as a 3-4 defensive end, he could draw middle- to late round-consideration from NFL teams willing to gamble on his upside.

    Gilbert Pena, Ole Miss, 6-3, 330

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

     

    Below is a list of players that are expected to attend the 2013 NFL Draft, (18) in total, not sure if the list will increase or decrease by draft day though I am a bit surprised to see Hunt and Manuel listed as neither ahad projected to be lock Rd 1 kids, but I do understand why they're listed... Watson projects as a LT, so I see why he's included... I could see the NYG's being interested in Hunt, he's the long, athletic, Raw type passrusher that they like to target:

    http://fansided.com/2013/04/03/list-of-players-attending-2013-draft-nfl-draft/

     

    • Barkevious Mingo, Defensive End/Outside Linebacker, LSU
    • Bjoern Werner, Defensive End, Florida State
    • Chance Warmack, Guard, Alabama
    • Cordarrelle Patterson, Wide Receiver, Tennessee
    • Dee Milliner, Cornerback, Alabama
    • DJ Fluker, Offensive Tackle, Alabama
    • EJ Manuel, Quarterback, Florida State
    • Eric Fisher, Offensive Tackle, Central Michigan
    • Ezekial Ansah, Defensive End, BYU
    • Geno Smith, Quarterback, West Virginia
    • Jonathan Cooper, Guard, North Carolina
    • Kenny Vaccaro, Safety, Texas
    • Lane Johnson, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma
    • Luke Joeckel, Offensive Tackle, Texas A&M
    • Margus Hunt, Defensive End, SMU
    • Menelik Watson, Offensive Tackle, Florida State
    • Sharrif Floyd, Defensive Tackle, Florida
    • Tavon Austin, Wide Receiver, West Virginia
    • Xavier Rhodes, Cornerback, Florida State

     



    The NFL wouldn't actually take advantage of a prime opportunity to add more attention to one more high profile player who was originally from another would they? Nah not the NFL. ;-)

     

    It's not like they are trying to grow the game globally or anything. Maybe? No?

    Ahh who know's maybe Hunt just don't have big ego and simply wants the experience of it even if it means hanging around for two days.?




    Haha, it's a fair point... trying to maybe get some visibility with other markets outside the US.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Well with the signings of Porter, Grimes, and Nnamdi recent it looks like the CB market is pretty much dead. Given the progression of the league I don't see any quality CB's entering the secondary market like other positions. For me this basically points to having to take a CB in the draft. The question is when? The Pats tend to like to take CBs in the 2nd (early to mid). I'm hoping this doesn't point to trading back the 1st for a mid 2nd and 4th but that scenerio is likely. If true then we won't be taking a DT early nor DE. It also suggests to me that they would double down on both WR's and CB's.

    I remember someone bringing up what DL's people saw in the late round so I went over some players:

     

    Montori Hughes DT Tenn-Martin 6'4" 330lb: If not for off-field issues which resulted in him getting booted out of Tenn he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round pick. Not overly athletic he has tremendous power and a quick burst. He had an impressive senior bowl and from reports looked great in position drills. He's been inconsistent but has very high upside if he can mature.

    Quanterus Smith DE W Kentucky 6'5" 250lb: Another day 2 kid who's stock has dropped because of a late season ending ACL tear. Prior to the ACL injury he was dominanting his conference with 12.5 sacks and 18.5 TFL. The more impressive thing was that he absolutely owned Fluker with 3 sacks against Ala. His sacks came in bunches showing a lot of inconsistency but when they came they were impressive against some of the better OLs in the country. He's a bit of a tweener but if he can add 15lbs during rehab he could become a passing rushing 43 DE specialist.

    David Bess DE W Missouri State 6'4" 262lb: If you are looking for a small school sleeper this might be the kid. He has been very consistent in pass rushing and has well developed moves. He had 14.5 sacks in 2011 and 11.5 in 2012. He had a good Shrine game beating some of the better Ts in 1v1 drills.

    Nick Williams DT Samford 6'4" 310lbs: Only playing 1 year of football in high school and going to a smaller school he is easily overlooked. He doesn't have the best stats and you might not even find his name on any draft board but at the combine I watch his position drills and came away fairly impressed. He was fluid and had a focused drive. He showed some power and ability that I didn't even see in some of the bigger named prospects. Coming from a school no one has ever heard of and having no real training in high school I'm sure this kid is as raw as they come but he has some athletic ability.

    Chris Jones DE/DT Bowling Green 6'2" 300lbs: On the smaller side and not that gifted athletically this kid could have the highest motor out of anyone in the draft. He's relentless at the line and is extremely consistent from play to play. He has amazing short area quickness and has developed great use of leverage because of his smaller size. He just wears down lineman giving max effort with every play. He's one of the few in the country for DL who typically work in the A and B gaps to put up double digit sacks and has consistently improved with every year he's played. He might end up being a good roational DL player moving inside and out but his lack of natural athletic ability is going to limit his ceiling

     



    Hey PE...

     

    Good to see some discussion for the late rounds. I think we've beaten early round topics so much. 

    The one that intrigues me most from that list is Jones. If his motor is as good as the writeup makes him out to be he might provide good competition (at least depth) on that pass-rushing interior DL. 

    I have researched Hughes a bit. Not a lot of reviews cover him, but most that I came across has him going around the fifth or sixth. There is a chance he makes it to seventh, but perhaps slim.

    Now, I probably belong to a very tiny minority who would not mind them taking a NT and have VW take on the rusher role. Based on Low's data, it looks like VW did some of it when he was in college. Perhaps he's not too old to do it again. Besides, I have seen him be effective at that at times.

    For this type of pick, I looked at the outliers in terms of size. The common ding is that they play upright. I am speculating that Pats coaches can fix them.

    Arby Jones, Georgia, 6-4, 313 He'd flashed big time talent early on, earning time as a true freshman (eight tackles, two tackles for loss in 2009) and sophomore (34 tackles, including 3.5 for loss while starting six games), including an eye-popping performance against state rival Georgia Tech (16 tackles, including two for loss and a forced fumble) that earned him SEC Defensive Lineman of the Week accolades.

    Rang on Jones: Jones has good quickness off the snap, as well as the lateral agility, balance and power necessary to handle playing inside. His long arms and strength are also conducive to remaining outside as a five-technique defensive end. With exceptional depth up front Georgia constantly rotates their defensive linemen so it is difficult to gauge how well Jones might do with more snaps. He's precisely the type of player whose draft stock is quietly higher with scouts than his media attention might lead one to believe -- but who may not earn the buzz in the scouting community until/if he is given an opportunity to "surprise" in one of the big senior all-star games.

    Quinton Dial, Alabama, 6-6, 318 Currently has an injury. Me on Dial: I am not sure why mock sites speculate him being undrafted. On the few games I saw Alabama, I remember him making pretty nice plays - enough at least for me to remember him. This guy is strong and can penetrate. So unless his injury is something nobody can recover from, I have a hard time understanding why he's being rated so low. 

    Brandon Moore, Texas, 6-5, 322 STRENGTHS: Naturally large man with long limbs and good overall weight distribution. Scheme versatile. Flashes a powerful bull rush to push the pocket. Possesses just average burst but shows surprising straight-line speed once he gets going. Untapped potential. WEAKNESSES: Moore has just average quickness off the snap and plays higher than scouts would like, negating his strength, at times. He lacks top athleticism and needs a clear lane to close on the ball. He suffered a neck injury against Oklahoma (2012) which caused him to be carted off the field and be sent to a local hospital for precautionary purposes. Medical reports will be important

    Because of his length, strength and the fact that he has been successful inside as a 4-3 defensive tackle and outside as a 3-4 defensive end, he could draw middle- to late round-consideration from NFL teams willing to gamble on his upside.

    Gilbert Pena, Ole Miss, 6-3, 330




    Good stuff, I've liked Dial for a while... has the height/size/lenght of a prototype BB 5 tech with the Saban pedigree... could def be a nice Day 3 find... also like Jones.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Just a random side note, I'm really excited about Trent Murphy DE from Stanford in 14's draft. Somehow Stanford got a stacked 5-6 legit pro D and Murphy was the best of the bunch. at 6'6" if he can get up to 275lb range this kid is going to be something to watch in a 43. Hoping the Pats might have a shot at him next year if they don't go DE this year

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Just a random side note, I'm really excited about Trent Murphy DE from Stanford in 14's draft. Somehow Stanford got a stacked 5-6 legit pro D and Murphy was the best of the bunch. at 6'6" if he can get up to 275lb range this kid is going to be something to watch in a 43. Hoping the Pats might have a shot at him next year if they don't go DE this year




    Ditto, I like Bama's Adrian Hubbard as well.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share