***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to maine12's comment:

    I still think the Pats should persue a pass rusher with our first round pick. Bill does better drafting big bodied players apposed to speedsters. Another pass rusher to get after qb's and maybe signing a CB could be a good option.



    Makes sense, a lot of the folks on here would love to see them another solid DT or bookend Chandler... I'm leaning towards the latter at this point... particularly (and to keep beating the same drum)... FSU DE Bjoern Werner.  They should do what they can to get his kid... check him out.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    From everything I've seen I think Vacarro is the most complete player that could be available in after round 1. He has great anticipation, tackles hard, and has soft hands. Elam scares me with his tackling and some of his coverages. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to maine12's comment:

    From everything I've seen I think Vacarro is the most complete player that could be available in after round 1. He has great anticipation, tackles hard, and has soft hands. Elam scares me with his tackling and some of his coverages. 

    Vaccaro should definitely be a top 50 player with Rd 1 upside... big, physical & athletic kid that plays hard, has good speed and range and is def versatile... I like him a lot... was hoping he'd declare last year.

    I think Elam is one of the better S tacklers that I've watched on tape... very, very aggressive (check out the play at the :27 spot in the link below... that's a 225 back that he's blowing up, I know it's only one play, but highlights the physicality and aggression that I mentioned) ... you can see his energy on the field, but also breaks down effectively to make plays in space... not saying that he doesn't miss tackles, but I like him more than the others in that area.  I liken him to Rodney in that he literally hits everything (opponents and his own players) and you can see his passion on the field... def sets the tone for that Gator D.  He's also used often in slot/nickel type coverages and matches up against slots and some TE's... now his size (5-10 205... though he looks beefed up to prob 210/215 if I had to guess) might be an issue vs. the bigger TE's, though he's athletic and physical enough to stay with them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ue7wlWAhgg

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Without a doubt if Elam plays every game like he did vs LSU he would be a sure first rounder. I've been looking at Elam between this year and last year and he has made strides in his tackling. He has always had great instints and knows how to attack the line of scrimmage. I'm looking foward to see how he plays against South Caralina this weekend. No doubt he loves contact, he tries to finish every play (no matter what team). Hey I LOVE the gators and would love to see Elam in a Pats uni. But something about Vacarro just jumps off the screen with me, he has the perfect size and he plays hard and takes on TE's one on one in coverage. With this being said I think TJ McDonald is completely over-rated and soft.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    For my money I'm going DT in the first but I do want a bookend for Jones and that would be Gholston.

    He's shown as much as Nink in the run game but he's much taller and faster. He has about the same rushing ability as Nink but imo there's a lot more to work with. IMO with the right development Gholston in the late 2nd could be a Ty Warren type of player. Extremely solid against the run and short coverage but will provide pressure and a half dozen sacks a year freeing up Jones

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    BTW have any of you guys been watching Terrance Williams WR Baylor. This kid has been lighting it up without RGIII. He's going to be a person I'll be interested in as he's got a long stride and great size. Seems to have some really good body control too and doesn't shy away from hits. Seems like a 3 tier WR to me

     

    Speaking of WR's keep an eye on Marquess Wilson out of Washington too. He could slip because of his QB's play but this kid has a ton of ability which should show up at the combine

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Top 10 might be high for them right now, we'll have a better clue where they will end up after thanksgiving but I could easily see them both going top 20 which hopefully will put them out of our range.

    The only thing I'm begging for right now is for BB not to take a DB in the first two rounds. This might sound weird but it's a two fold issue I have:

    First - I don't think we have the proper coaching staff. When the coaching staff can't teach something as simply as to turn around for the ball and not rely on face gaurding then there is an issue. When every player regresses from year 1 to years 2,3,4 then we have an issue (see McCourty, Ras starter for 2 games last year then dropped off face of earth, Moore significant drop off, Butler)

    Second - He just seems to be extremely bad at picking DB's in the first 2 rounds. McCourty needs work but has starting ability and Chung has suddenly turned into a mediocre S at best. Ras I have no clue where he went and Wilson looked lost when asked to play every down. This is getting sad

    Third - BB has rarely failed when getting front 7 players in the first 2 rounds. Cunningham is a JAGish pass rushing specialist and Brace is no where to be seen but almost all his front 7 picks have turned out great, even Hill was showing high improve before the tragedy



    Hard to argue with the db discussiOn. He hasn't faired to well in FA here either. However, I am more inclined to grab an FA corner because hopefully they have learned how to cover the proper way before regressing in the pats system.

    My first choice is an end to compliment jones. DTwould be next, but I want an end first. 

    Mb, I trust your instincts here as you have identified some real difference makers, most recently Watt who is an absolute beast. Does Werner offer similar potential? If so, he is worth moving up to get. Inretrospect I would rather have watt than solder. I know it's early in both careers but watt  looks as dominant or even more so than Ngata, tuck, osi or any of the other standout dlinemen in the league. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    @PE,

    I like Gholston as a player, very good height/weight/length, athletic and moves very well for a big/tall kid, he gets after it on every play and has some edge to his game, isn't afraid to mix it up.  He's strong at he POA, looks like a player that can set the edge and will get his hands up to bat balls down.  He's had a down year statistically to this point (1 sack, 5 TFL), so it'll be interesting to see if comes out or not.  As for the comparison, I'm not sure he's a 2-gapper and he'd need to put on 25-30 pounds to approach Warren.  Looks like a solid 43 DE to me.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsNut5480. Show PatsNut5480's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to maine12's comment:

    From everything I've seen I think Vacarro is the most complete player that could be available in after round 1. He has great anticipation, tackles hard, and has soft hands. Elam scares me with his tackling and some of his coverages. 



    I agree with you Maine, Vacarro to me is a great option at where Pats might be picking.  He seems to be more complete in coverage than a lot of other safeties and seems to have really good speed for his size.  I saw him take down Tavon Austin from behind against West Virginia.  He does miss some tackles as MB pointed out earlier but overall he seems like a good fit.  I honestly haven't focused much on Elam.  I'll have to check out some of his games. 

    I agree with you on TJ McDonald.  To me he is very overrated.  Plays kind of reckless and takes bad penalties. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    @PL,

    Thanks, man... I can't take credit for bringing Watt to the thread, but he was somebody that I talked up quite a bit as did a few of us... kid has really developed as a pro, would love to have him.

    RE: Werner, I do think this kid has impact potential as an edge defender (especially when placed across from a stud like Chandler), similar to what Clay gives GB, though I think Werner is bigger and a better run defender. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    @PE,

    I like Gholston as a player, very good height/weight/length, athletic and moves very well for a big/tall kid, he gets after it on every play and has some edge to his game, isn't afraid to mix it up.  He's strong at he POA, looks like a player that can set the edge and will get his hands up to bat balls down.  He's had a down year statistically to this point (1 sack, 5 TFL), so it'll be interesting to see if comes out or not.  As for the comparison, I'm not sure he's a 2-gapper and he'd need to put on 25-30 pounds to approach Warren.  Looks like a solid 43 DE to me.




    The comparison was more the style of play. Warren wasn't a pass rushing end. His main ability was to set the edge and control anything that went that way. However, when need Warren could and did put pressure on QB's. He did it just enough for other O's to take notice and take some of the heat off of Seymour but he was in no way an elite pass rusher. That's what I see from Gholston. Someone who can control their edge whether that's dropping back at the POA or just clogging up throwing lanes. I don't think Gholston would ever become an elite pass rusher but I think he could provide consistent pressure to the point where he'd take heat away from Jones. That's the comparison I was trying to make

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Shariff Floyd is player to keep an eye on. He has gradually been playing better this year and has the ability to play inside on the 4-3. He is better vs the pass, he generates power to get up the field. Not only that he has quick feet and he moves well side to side with a strong rip move. Floyd has been really good with one on one and if he matches up with a guard he can generate that pash rush up the middle. He was top recruit coming out of high school and he is finally living up to it. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    BTW have any of you guys been watching Terrance Williams WR Baylor. This kid has been lighting it up without RGIII. He's going to be a person I'll be interested in as he's got a long stride and great size. Seems to have some really good body control too and doesn't shy away from hits. Seems like a 3 tier WR to me

     

    Speaking of WR's keep an eye on Marquess Wilson out of Washington too. He could slip because of his QB's play but this kid has a ton of ability which should show up at the combine




    PatsEng, Yeah I saw Terrance Williams play against Louisiana-Monroe. Kid looks good and seems to find the endzone often. He had a huge game against WV catching 17 for 314 and 2 td's. Here's a clip

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWudlePQytM

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Top 10 might be high for them right now, we'll have a better clue where they will end up after thanksgiving but I could easily see them both going top 20 which hopefully will put them out of our range.

    The only thing I'm begging for right now is for BB not to take a DB in the first two rounds. This might sound weird but it's a two fold issue I have:

    First - I don't think we have the proper coaching staff. When the coaching staff can't teach something as simply as to turn around for the ball and not rely on face gaurding then there is an issue. When every player regresses from year 1 to years 2,3,4 then we have an issue (see McCourty, Ras starter for 2 games last year then dropped off face of earth, Moore significant drop off, Butler)

    Second - He just seems to be extremely bad at picking DB's in the first 2 rounds. McCourty needs work but has starting ability and Chung has suddenly turned into a mediocre S at best. Ras I have no clue where he went and Wilson looked lost when asked to play every down. This is getting sad

    Third - BB has rarely failed when getting front 7 players in the first 2 rounds. Cunningham is a JAGish pass rushing specialist and Brace is no where to be seen but almost all his front 7 picks have turned out great, even Hill was showing high improve before the tragedy



    Hard to argue with the db discussiOn. He hasn't faired to well in FA here either. However, I am more inclined to grab an FA corner because hopefully they have learned how to cover the proper way before regressing in the pats system.

    My first choice is an end to compliment jones. DTwould be next, but I want an end first. 

    Mb, I trust your instincts here as you have identified some real difference makers, most recently Watt who is an absolute beast. Does Werner offer similar potential? If so, he is worth moving up to get. Inretrospect I would rather have watt than solder. I know it's early in both careers but watt  looks as dominant or even more so than Ngata, tuck, osi or any of the other standout dlinemen in the league. 



    "Hard to argue with the db discussiOn. He hasn't faired to well in FA here either. However, I am more inclined to grab an FA corner because hopefully they have learned how to cover the proper way before regressing in the pats system.

    My first choice is an end to compliment jones. DTwould be next, but I want an end first. 

    Mb, I trust your instincts here as you have identified some real difference makers, most recently Watt who is an absolute beast. Does Werner offer similar potential? If so, he is worth moving up to get. Inretrospect I would rather have watt than solder. I know it's early in both careers but watt  looks as dominant or even more so than Ngata, tuck, osi or any of the other standout dlinemen in the league. "

    i am in agreement with all of this.

    first player drafted a de who can put conistent pressure on qb and hold up the end (a la jones). the dt next to fork is needed but not nearly as much.

    first free agent, a top cb.

    if we need to trade up for a playmakin de (likely) then so  be it.

    indeed if we'd traded up for watt instead of waiting for solder, we might be in contention right now with top teams in the league (even with spotty play, our db's and subpar coachin)  instead of trying to eek out winning the division.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Happy Friday, boys!

    So I think today would be a good day to name my "Leader in the clubhouse", essentially the player that I think NE is most likely to target based on current prospect rankings/team needs.

    It's pretty well known that FSU DE Bjoern Werner is the top player on my board at this point, though he's prob off the board in the first half of Rd 1 if the draft were today... and I still think NE will be drafting in the bottom quarter of Rd 1.

    With that said, I don't see a better fit at this point than the first player I profiled Oregon DE Dion Jordan (6-6 250).

    If you haven't checked this kid out yet, please do... elite length and athleticism (I've seen him with slot and outside CB responsibilies on tape), huge motor and will play behind the whistle... versatile and plays primarilty out of a two point stance... he'll need to protect his legs better and get stronger in the upper body, but I can't think of a better bookend to Chandler's height/length than this kid, at the bottom of Rd 1. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Hey MB, I like Jordan a lot but he's still 20lbs short of being a bookend to Jones and like Taylor I'm not sure he can maintain the higher weight. Truthfully I'm not sure if Jordan is a OLB or DE in our system, so until he can put on and maintain a higher weight he's on my back burner

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Hey MB, I like Jordan a lot but he's still 20lbs short of being a bookend to Jones and like Taylor I'm not sure he can maintain the higher weight. Truthfully I'm not sure if Jordan is a OLB or DE in our system, so until he can put on and maintain a higher weight he's on my back burner



    I think he looks a bigger than the 243 that he's listed at, so I'll be curious to see what his actual weights are at the SB/Combine, etc.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to maine12's comment:

    Shariff Floyd is player to keep an eye on. He has gradually been playing better this year and has the ability to play inside on the 4-3. He is better vs the pass, he generates power to get up the field. Not only that he has quick feet and he moves well side to side with a strong rip move. Floyd has been really good with one on one and if he matches up with a guard he can generate that pash rush up the middle. He was top recruit coming out of high school and he is finally living up to it. 



    I'd agree with this assessment, he does play inside and out in a 43 and looks very well suited to a 43 system that will allow him to get up field, vs. occupy blockers.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Jordan is a stud! He plays all over the field and has a ton of speed. He uses his speed with a mix of pass rush moves to get after the QB. Dion Jordan to me is a playmaker. Hes not yet a great pass rusher or a run stopper but he makes big plays. I was looking for an interview with him to see what kind of character he is but I couldn't find one. Would love for the Pats to draft him and move all over.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to maine12's comment:

    Jordan is a stud! He plays all over the field and has a ton of speed. He uses his speed with a mix of pass rush moves to get after the QB. Dion Jordan to me is a playmaker. Hes not yet a great pass rusher or a run stopper but he makes big plays. I was looking for an interview with him to see what kind of character he is but I couldn't find one. Would love for the Pats to draft him and move all over.




    The only issue I have Maine is that typically guys like that can thrive in college because their athletic ability alone is enough for success but when you get up to the NFL level being a tweener type of player OL's will be bigger and stronger and will just out muscle smaller (weight wise) DE's on the edge and bulldoze for the running, TE's and WR's are quicker and will easily gain seperation unless you are running sub 4.7's, and unless you have some we advanced pass rushing moves (ala Von Miller) T's are quicker in the pro's and will simply redirect you around the edge.

    For Jordan to succeed at the next level he has to define what his role is going to be. He either needs to develop Von Miller type of rushing moves, or get bigger to control the edge, or work on his speed to drop back into coverage. His issue is that he's good at all but not great in any, which hurts him a lot since his size already places him that tweener catagory. Now if he comes out of the combine at 265-275 running a sub 4.75 then you are talking but 250 at 6'7" and 4.7 really makes it difficult to find a role

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to maine12's comment:

    Jordan is a stud! He plays all over the field and has a ton of speed. He uses his speed with a mix of pass rush moves to get after the QB. Dion Jordan to me is a playmaker. Hes not yet a great pass rusher or a run stopper but he makes big plays. I was looking for an interview with him to see what kind of character he is but I couldn't find one. Would love for the Pats to draft him and move all over.



    I too look for interviews for most of the players that I research to get a better idea of their thoughts/personality... and sometimes intelligence, etc... I think it's a good tool to utilize during the process.

    Below are a couple that I could find:

    The first link I find particularly interesting, it's Oregon's DC who calls Jordan "The hardest worker on our team.".

    http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landing?blockID=756615

    http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landingcombo?Dion-Jordan--The-aggression-switch-Not-j=1&blockID=774221&feedID=9379

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3wh55GK84I

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BkucLQfDn8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV4Ucc9JX1g&feature=relmfu

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Here is a thought..

    Could Hightower be moved to de opposite Jones and the pats target a lb like manti te'o or the kid from Georgia Jenkins? Where is hightowers best fit? He is not the pure rushing de that Jones is however I do remember him lining up as end at Bama on occasion. 

    Mb and others...how do you compare Werner to okafor?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Here is a thought..

    Could Hightower be moved to de opposite Jones and the pats target a lb like manti te'o or the kid from Georgia Jenkins? Where is hightowers best fit? He is not the pure rushing de that Jones is however I do remember him lining up as end at Bama on occasion. 

    Mb and others...how do you compare Werner to okafor?




    It's a creative idea with Hightower, and similar to what they've done with Nink... kid is versatile and I could see some increased pass rush reps as he develops and gets more comfortable with the defense.

    Okafor looks like a very good football player at this point, good size and power, love his motor but I think Werner is a better, quicker and more flexible athlete at this point.  IMO, Okafor would be in the discussion at the end of Rd 1 with the Dion Jordan's of the world, etc... there is a TON of height/weight/length at the DE position that is projected to be in this draft class.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    MB and others. Lester had pick tonight for the Tide. Where is he on the board. I know you`re an ND guy, but Teo will gone and where do you see Eiffert going?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    I like Hunt! he is huge, and is insanely fast for a DE.  foreign athelete similar to Vollmer's background. Willing to play special teams, great motor big frame can add a great deal of muscle to fill out his frame.  would look great beside wilfork.  Hunt, wilfork, and jones would be a great 3-4 line with ninkovich, spikes, mayo, hightower at LB.

    Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    Height: 6-8. Weight: 275.
    Projected 40 Time: 4.83.
    Projected Round (2013): 2-3.

    "Estonia product is a raw player that really came on strong at the end of his junior season. He recorded all three of his sacks for 2011 against Pitt in the Bowl game. He had 28 tackles with 7.5 tackles for a loss. Hunt totaled 5.5 sacks in his freshman and sophomore seasons.

    Hunt uses his height to be a dangerous weapon on special teams. He blocked seven kicks as a freshman. In 2010 he had three blocked kicks and as a junior he had four kicks blocked. It is entirely possible that he could end his college career approaching 20 blocked kicks. Hunt may be best as a five technique defensive end in a 3-4 defense in the NFL."

    http://walterfootball.com/draft2013DE.php

     
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