***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to patriot-fan-74's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Any of you guys heard from 7393 or Faucet or Low or PL, etc.?  They haven't posted much like previous years?  Hopefully they'll join in soon.

     

     they are missed but you guys are very good at projecting players in the draft and finding guys I haven't heard of.....Just keep up the great work guys!!

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks man, will do!

    [/QUOTE]

    I started following this thread last year and remember all those guys giving great insight. This is a great thread to gain more knowledge of the game (like myself). I remember seeing 7393 earlier in the season talking about Ziggy Ansah, etc. I haven't seen Faucet or Low since April or May after the draft? Its good to see PatsLifer back in the thread! Thanks for running this thread MB!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Below is my "Big 32 Board Stack", essentially the players that interest me the most in the range of NE's 5 draft pick slots... this list is fluid and likely to change and I'll be updating as more tape/info becomes available (BTW, it'd be nice to paste this in the format that I created it in, ha):

      

    Rd 1

    DE/OLB- Dion Jordan- Oregon

    DT- Jesse Williams- Alabama

    OG- Chance Warmack- Alabama

    OL- Barrett Jones- Alabama

     

    Rd 1-2

    S- Matt Elam- Florida

    CB- Jordan Poyer- Oregon State

    OLB/DE- Chase Thomas- Stanford

    DE/OLB- Tank Carradine- Florida State

    TE- Tyler Eifert- Notre Dame

     

    Rd 2

    S- Robert Lester- Alabama

    DE/OLB- Ziggy Ansah- BYU

    RB- Eddie Lacy- Alabama

    S- Kenny Vaccaro- Texas

     

    Rd 2-3

    CB- Micah Hyde- Iowa

    CB- Bennett Jackson- Notre Dame

    LB- Kevin Minter- LSU

    CB- Logan Ryan- Rutgers

    QB- Landry Jones- Oklahoma

     

    Rd 3

    CB- Terry Hawthorne- Illinois

    LB- Shayne Skov- Stanford

    WR- Ryan Swope- Tex A&M

    S- Zeke Motta- Notre Dame

    RB- Stepfan Taylor- Stanford

    DE/OLB- Margus Hunt- SMU

    S- Shawn Williams- Georgia

    DT- Abry Jones- Georgia

     

    Rd 7

    DL- Kapron Lewis-Moore- Notre Dame

    WR TJ Moe- Missouri

    DL- Quinton Dial- Alabama

    WR Chad Bumphis- Miss State

    OG Blaize Foltz- TCU

    S- John Boyett- Oregon

    [/QUOTE]

    I like how you added Quinton Dial in there. I thought he looked good every time I've seen him this year. I don't think a team could go wrong just spending all their picks on Alabama players, their team is loaded with talent haha It would be funny to see someone do that

    I was wondering what you like about Blaize Foltz. I saw him a couple times earlier in the year but wasn't all that impressed. I thought he had average footwork and didn't look too athletic.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Below is my "Big 32 Board Stack", essentially the players that interest me the most in the range of NE's 5 draft pick slots... this list is fluid and likely to change and I'll be updating as more tape/info becomes available (BTW, it'd be nice to paste this in the format that I created it in, ha):

      

    Rd 1

    DE/OLB- Dion Jordan- Oregon

    DT- Jesse Williams- Alabama

    OG- Chance Warmack- Alabama

    OL- Barrett Jones- Alabama

     

    Rd 1-2

    S- Matt Elam- Florida

    CB- Jordan Poyer- Oregon State

    OLB/DE- Chase Thomas- Stanford

    DE/OLB- Tank Carradine- Florida State

    TE- Tyler Eifert- Notre Dame

     

    Rd 2

    S- Robert Lester- Alabama

    DE/OLB- Ziggy Ansah- BYU

    RB- Eddie Lacy- Alabama

    S- Kenny Vaccaro- Texas

     

    Rd 2-3

    CB- Micah Hyde- Iowa

    CB- Bennett Jackson- Notre Dame

    LB- Kevin Minter- LSU

    CB- Logan Ryan- Rutgers

    QB- Landry Jones- Oklahoma

     

    Rd 3

    CB- Terry Hawthorne- Illinois

    LB- Shayne Skov- Stanford

    WR- Ryan Swope- Tex A&M

    S- Zeke Motta- Notre Dame

    RB- Stepfan Taylor- Stanford

    DE/OLB- Margus Hunt- SMU

    S- Shawn Williams- Georgia

    DT- Abry Jones- Georgia

     

    Rd 7

    DL- Kapron Lewis-Moore- Notre Dame

    WR TJ Moe- Missouri

    DL- Quinton Dial- Alabama

    WR Chad Bumphis- Miss State

    OG Blaize Foltz- TCU

    S- John Boyett- Oregon

    [/QUOTE]

    I like how you added Quinton Dial in there. I thought he looked good every time I've seen him this year. I don't think a team could go wrong just spending all their picks on Alabama players, their team is loaded with talent haha It would be funny to see someone do that

    I was wondering what you like about Blaize Foltz. I saw him a couple times earlier in the year but wasn't all that impressed. I thought he had average footwork and didn't look too athletic.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, Dial would make a lot of sense as a late round kid with some size.  Kid has made some mental mistakes, but is listed as 6-6 304 and has experience in a Saban defense... worth a late round flier, IMO.  I'm with ya... load up on Bama players!

    As for Foltz, appreciate the feedback... not a lot of tape out there on this kid, but I was looking for a late round developmental OG and this kid has the ideal size, excellent strength and a good amount of experience... I'll hopefully be able to get a better look at him moving forward.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am back..sorry, I haven't watched a ton of college football this year, but have a few thoughts.

    Bb's intentions last year were to upgrade the interior of the DL. In fact, he has been looking for a couple of years now, as evidenced by taking fat Albert and Fanaene . Meanwhile, he has added jones at end, and it appears he feels good about nink at the other, but also drafted bequette in hopes he might develop into something special. Also, parcells latest interview, he stated the pats need another passrusher. I would agree. 

    I'm def looking DT/DE/DB/OL first.

    Looking at what Dante has done with plugins on this OL, I feel pretty good about it for next year. I think they should address the OL however and look for a quality backup at tackle. Wendell, Connolly, mankins, Thomas, McDonald...that's a solid bunch inside.  I feel a little less comfortable at tackle. 

    I think they have solid talent at OT, the question for me is Vollmer's long term health... if he can stay healthy (big if), I think BB is completely confident with him and Solder.  Cannon is a question mark so OT depth might be something they address.

    Talib is a wild card as is dowling. Will they be back? What about Chung? 

    Good questions on Talib/Dowling... Talib is tough as if he performs well, which would up his value, he may price himself out of Foxboro... Dowling, much like college has trouble staying on the field, so I'd prefer if they build a team assuming he's not part of the equation.  I like Chung, but the guy can't cover a chair... and that's a huge problem.

    My feeling is make McCourtys move to safety permanent. You start he and Wilson, let Chung walk or sign him for nothing. Let Gregory walk, get a backup safety or 2 cheaply. My feeling is One of Talib or dowling will be on the roster. We need another cb...again.

    Personally, I think BB would prefer to keep McCourty at CB and go with more of a traditional S (whether in FA or the draft).


     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    endulge me if you will for a moment in a mental exercise:

    for a moment, imagine what our defense woudl look like if jj watt played for us. bear with me.

    how does the whole of the defense perform?

    ok, now, how does the whole of the team perform through a season and the playoffs.

    if you envision a dramtic change in our defense and our ability to win games,

    this is the evidence i submit to back my case for trading any and even all of 2014 draft picks to move up in round one and into round 1 again. making 2 picks to get 2 DOMINATING  players (im thinking dt and de). with the third pick we need a c/g who can win consistently run blocking and pass blocking.

    any other accoutrement we do in fa (though we can take a shot in the 7th and udfa for wr or db).

    we are beginning to need some experience more than youth (afer this draft) and its been a long time since weve been to the promised land and brady wont be here forever. 

    for the record, if we added a player like watt to this team, i think wed be favored to win the sb, not rated the 9th best team in power rankings (finallly dropping to this spot) in most places at the moment (where i  have had us for several weeks).

    consider.....

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am back..sorry, I haven't watched a ton of college football this year, but have a few thoughts.

    Bb's intentions last year were to upgrade the interior of the DL. In fact, he has been looking for a couple of years now, as evidenced by taking fat Albert and Fanaene . Meanwhile, he has added jones at end, and it appears he feels good about nink at the other, but also drafted bequette in hopes he might develop into something special. Also, parcells latest interview, he stated the pats need another passrusher. I would agree. 

    Looking at what Dante has done with plugins on this OL, I feel pretty good about it for next year. I think they should address the OL however and look for a quality backup at tackle. Wendell, Connolly, mankins, Thomas, McDonald...that's a solid bunch inside.  I feel a little less comfortable at tackle. 

    Talib is a wild card as is dowling. Will they be back? What about Chung? 

    My feeling is make McCourtys move to safety permanent. You start he and Wilson, let Chung walk or sign him for nothing. Let Gregory walk, get a backup safety or 2 cheaply. My feeling is One of Talib or dowling will be on the roster. We need another cb...again.

    Based on all of the above, given where where we have youth, talent, cost of positions, etc, I want to use the draft to get a DE, DT and OT. I want to use FA to get a CB and safety. 

    More thoughts to come soon on the above and actual player names.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    welcome back to the thread lifer!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    endulge me if you will for a moment in a mental exercise:

    for a moment, imagine what our defense woudl look like if jj watt played for us. bear with me.

    how does the whole of the defense perform?

    ok, now, how does the whole of the team perform through a season and the playoffs.

    if you envision a dramtic change in our defense and our ability to win games,

    this is the evidence i submit to back my case for trading any and even all of 2014 draft picks to move up in round one and into round 1 again. making 2 picks to get 2 DOMINATING  players (im thinking dt and de). with the third pick we need a c/g who can win consistently run blocking and pass blocking.

    any other accoutrement we do in fa (though we can take a shot in the 7th and udfa for wr or db).

    we are beginning to need some experience more than youth (afer this draft) and its been a long time since weve been to the promised land and brady wont be here forever. 

    for the record, if we added a player like watt to this team, i think wed be favored to win the sb, not rated the 9th best team in power rankings (finallly dropping to this spot) in most places at the moment (where i  have had us for several weeks).

    consider.....

    [/QUOTE]

    My initial thought is, there are no JJ Watt type players in this class (6-5 295 DE's that can do it all), so trying to duplicate him in this class will not work... one could also present Chandler Jones as a reason to feel confident about the potential of landing potential impact talent in the early 20's... which would likely be BB's ceiling if he's looking to move up (on the assumption that they'll be drafting towards the back end of Rd 1).

    For the sake of this exercise, what (2) players are you locked in on (leveraging the entire 2014 draft) as guarantees to be dominant and why?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Congrats MB, Tide lost. Puts ND obviously in the BCS championship picture. I still think we'll see alot of Alabama players getting drafted in 2013.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Congrats MB, Tide lost. Puts ND obviously in the BCS championship picture. I still think we'll see alot of Alabama players getting drafted in 2013.

    [/QUOTE]


    They're still in play, yes... would love to see them get a shot... we'll see how the season plays out, ha.

    Most def, you could see (5) Bama kids come off the board in Rd 1 and maybe (7 or 8) total over the first two days.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    5 in the 1st is possible but unlikely. I see 3 in the 1st for Bama with one deciding to return to school, 2 in the 2nd round, and 1 in the earlier 3rd:

    Jones and Warmack easily in the 1st

    Mosley and Milliner as potential 1st rounders if they come out

    Williams as a solid 2nd rounder

    Lester and Fluker as fringe 2nd/3rd rounders

     

    Actually if BB decides he needs a mid round pick Williams would be the guy to target. You trade back that late 1st for a pick in the late 30's very early 40's and pick up a 4th or 5th round pick in exchange. Then grab Williams with the early 2nd rounder

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    5 in the 1st is possible but unlikely. I see 3 in the 1st for Bama with one deciding to return to school, 2 in the 2nd round, and 1 in the earlier 3rd:

    Jones and Warmack easily in the 1st

    Mosley and Milliner as potential 1st rounders if they come out

    Williams as a solid 2nd rounder

    Lester and Fluker as fringe 2nd/3rd rounders

     

    Actually if BB decides he needs a mid round pick Williams would be the guy to target. You trade back that late 1st for a pick in the late 30's very early 40's and pick up a 4th or 5th round pick in exchange. Then grab Williams with the early 2nd rounder

    [/QUOTE]

    We differ a bit on Williams, I have a Rd 1 grade on him.

    RB Eddie Lacy is another kid that could come off the board in Rd 2 if he declares... Nico Johnson could be more in the fringe Rd 2/3 range.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    5 in the 1st is possible but unlikely. I see 3 in the 1st for Bama with one deciding to return to school, 2 in the 2nd round, and 1 in the earlier 3rd:

    Jones and Warmack easily in the 1st

    Mosley and Milliner as potential 1st rounders if they come out

    Williams as a solid 2nd rounder

    Lester and Fluker as fringe 2nd/3rd rounders

     

    Actually if BB decides he needs a mid round pick Williams would be the guy to target. You trade back that late 1st for a pick in the late 30's very early 40's and pick up a 4th or 5th round pick in exchange. Then grab Williams with the early 2nd rounder

    [/QUOTE]

    We differ a bit on Williams, I have a Rd 1 grade on him.

    RB Eddie Lacy is another kid that could come off the board in Rd 2 if he declares... Nico Johnson could be more in the fringe Rd 2/3 range.

    [/QUOTE]

    I liked Williams a lot before the season but his potential took a slight back step at the beginning of the season. He's gotten back up to his form from last year but he didn't make the step up I expected him to make. Right now to me he's more potential then NFL and might take a year or two to develop. Now that could certainly change but I don't like to take players based on upside in the 1st, but that's again personal preference. Then again if the Pats make the SB like we both think their pick might as well be a 2nd rounder anyways. I mean I'm talking about take him in the 30-45 range and you are talking 25-35 range if I'm not mistaken so it's not like we are talking a huge difference

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    5 in the 1st is possible but unlikely. I see 3 in the 1st for Bama with one deciding to return to school, 2 in the 2nd round, and 1 in the earlier 3rd:

    Jones and Warmack easily in the 1st

    Mosley and Milliner as potential 1st rounders if they come out

    Williams as a solid 2nd rounder

    Lester and Fluker as fringe 2nd/3rd rounders

     

    Actually if BB decides he needs a mid round pick Williams would be the guy to target. You trade back that late 1st for a pick in the late 30's very early 40's and pick up a 4th or 5th round pick in exchange. Then grab Williams with the early 2nd rounder

    [/QUOTE]

    We differ a bit on Williams, I have a Rd 1 grade on him.

    RB Eddie Lacy is another kid that could come off the board in Rd 2 if he declares... Nico Johnson could be more in the fringe Rd 2/3 range.

    [/QUOTE]

    I liked Williams a lot before the season but his potential took a slight back step at the beginning of the season. He's gotten back up to his form from last year but he didn't make the step up I expected him to make. Right now to me he's more potential then NFL and might take a year or two to develop. Now that could certainly change but I don't like to take players based on upside in the 1st, but that's again personal preference. Then again if the Pats make the SB like we both think their pick might as well be a 2nd rounder anyways. I mean I'm talking about take him in the 30-45 range and you are talking 25-35 range if I'm not mistaken so it's not like we are talking a huge difference

    [/QUOTE]

    Pure 34 NT's (who can also play inside in a 43) are at a premium at the NFL level and IMO, if a kid like Dontari Poe can get drafted 11th overall, I think it speaks well for Williams who has no questions about his motor, has similar physical strength and is proven against much better competition.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Not the best example MB. I didn't like Poe last year and thought he was a 2nd round talent at best. I was shocked someone grabbed him that high and it seems I might have been right. Just because they are a premium doesn't mean someone should reach for them either. Right now Williams is more potential then anything else in my eyes. He has a ton of upside but I haven't seen it translate to his game yet, except in flashes. Considering the team he's on I'm assuming he's getting the proper coaching. Who knows though because these things are like light switches where sometimes the potential just clicks and the person comes roaring on and others it just never clicks and the guy is talked about as potental. That is usually why in the 1st I always target production over potential every time. 2nd and 3rd round is where I think potential players belong.

     

    When you really look at it more players taken in the 1st based on potential have failed then succeeded. It's a very dangerous game. Personally I wouldn't look at Williams until the very back end of the 1st and only if I couldn't trade back/up into the early 2nd. I'd rather target someone with the production in college in the 1st. But, that a philoshopic belief

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not the best example MB. I didn't like Poe last year and thought he was a 2nd round talent at best. I was shocked someone grabbed him that high and it seems I might have been right. Just because they are a premium doesn't mean someone should reach for them either. Right now Williams is more potential then anything else in my eyes. He has a ton of upside but I haven't seen it translate to his game yet, except in flashes. Considering the team he's on I'm assuming he's getting the proper coaching. Who knows though because these things are like light switches where sometimes the potential just clicks and the person comes roaring on and others it just never clicks and the guy is talked about as potental. That is usually why in the 1st I always target production over potential every time. 2nd and 3rd round is where I think potential players belong.

     

    When you really look at it more players taken in the 1st based on potential have failed then succeeded. It's a very dangerous game. Personally I wouldn't look at Williams until the very back end of the 1st and only if I couldn't trade back/up into the early 2nd. I'd rather target someone with the production in college in the 1st. But, that a philoshopic belief

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you talking statistical based production?

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking12. Show harleyroadking12's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    mbeaulieu....harley here.. any wideouts worthy of a 1 or 2 that can understand the playbook and not be a f'..up  TB could use a good target out there Branch isnt going to be around and maybe WW  isnt either

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to harleyroadking12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    mbeaulieu....harley here.. any wideouts worthy of a 1 or 2 that can understand the playbook and not be a f'..up  TB could use a good target out there Branch isnt going to be around and maybe WW  isnt either

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey Harley.. there are some kids that project as Top 50 type WR's (no Top 10 talents), but none that really get me excited at this point.  I personally hope they address the defensive side of the ball in Rd's 1 & 2, then maybe grab a WR in Rd 3 (Ryan Swope is a kid that I like in that range).

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    endulge me if you will for a moment in a mental exercise:

    for a moment, imagine what our defense woudl look like if jj watt played for us. bear with me.

    how does the whole of the defense perform?

    ok, now, how does the whole of the team perform through a season and the playoffs.

    if you envision a dramtic change in our defense and our ability to win games,

    this is the evidence i submit to back my case for trading any and even all of 2014 draft picks to move up in round one and into round 1 again. making 2 picks to get 2 DOMINATING  players (im thinking dt and de). with the third pick we need a c/g who can win consistently run blocking and pass blocking.

    any other accoutrement we do in fa (though we can take a shot in the 7th and udfa for wr or db).

    we are beginning to need some experience more than youth (afer this draft) and its been a long time since weve been to the promised land and brady wont be here forever. 

    for the record, if we added a player like watt to this team, i think wed be favored to win the sb, not rated the 9th best team in power rankings (finallly dropping to this spot) in most places at the moment (where i  have had us for several weeks).

    consider.....

    [/QUOTE]

    My initial thought is, there are no JJ Watt type players in this class (6-5 295 DE's that can do it all), so trying to duplicate him in this class will not work... one could also present Chandler Jones as a reason to feel confident about the potential of landing potential impact talent in the early 20's... which would likely be BB's ceiling if he's looking to move up (on the assumption that they'll be drafting towards the back end of Rd 1).

    For the sake of this exercise, what (2) players are you locked in on (leveraging the entire 2014 draft) as guarantees to be dominant and why?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    hey mb, not jj watt duplicate.

    just talking about a dominating dt and de.. the why is explained in my post. the who is up to you individually, me, and bb to figure out. candidates examples jenkins and werner (alternatively jenkins and jordan) with  frederick in 3rd

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking12. Show harleyroadking12's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to harleyroadking12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    mbeaulieu....harley here.. any wideouts worthy of a 1 or 2 that can understand the playbook and not be a f'..up  TB could use a good target out there Branch isnt going to be around and maybe WW  isnt either

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey Harley.. there are some kids that project as Top 50 type WR's (no Top 10 talents), but none that really get me excited at this point.  I personally hope they address the defensive side of the ball in Rd's 1 & 2, then maybe grab a WR in Rd 3 (Ryan Swope is a kid that I like in that range).

    [/QUOTE]

    thanks you're right better db's and another rusher are needed asap

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    endulge me if you will for a moment in a mental exercise:

    for a moment, imagine what our defense woudl look like if jj watt played for us. bear with me.

    how does the whole of the defense perform?

    ok, now, how does the whole of the team perform through a season and the playoffs.

    if you envision a dramtic change in our defense and our ability to win games,

    this is the evidence i submit to back my case for trading any and even all of 2014 draft picks to move up in round one and into round 1 again. making 2 picks to get 2 DOMINATING  players (im thinking dt and de). with the third pick we need a c/g who can win consistently run blocking and pass blocking.

    any other accoutrement we do in fa (though we can take a shot in the 7th and udfa for wr or db).

    we are beginning to need some experience more than youth (afer this draft) and its been a long time since weve been to the promised land and brady wont be here forever. 

    for the record, if we added a player like watt to this team, i think wed be favored to win the sb, not rated the 9th best team in power rankings (finallly dropping to this spot) in most places at the moment (where i  have had us for several weeks).

    consider.....

    [/QUOTE]

    My initial thought is, there are no JJ Watt type players in this class (6-5 295 DE's that can do it all), so trying to duplicate him in this class will not work... one could also present Chandler Jones as a reason to feel confident about the potential of landing potential impact talent in the early 20's... which would likely be BB's ceiling if he's looking to move up (on the assumption that they'll be drafting towards the back end of Rd 1).

    For the sake of this exercise, what (2) players are you locked in on (leveraging the entire 2014 draft) as guarantees to be dominant and why?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    hey mb, not jj watt duplicate.

    just talking about a dominating dt and de.. the why is explained in my post. the who is up to you individually, me, and bb to figure out. candidates examples jenkins and werner (alternatively jenkins and jordan) with  frederick in 3rd

    [/QUOTE]

    there are at least a couple or 3 at de and dt that look they are or could be dominating. so if we moved up to 12-15 we could grab who is available for example at de/olb: j jones, moore, werner, maybe jordan (we could pick the best at the number we can rise to as opposed to hoping the bottom pick makes it to us). of course the option of gambling on the upside of ansah or hunt without trading up exists. id like to be as sure as possible with brady's last few years.

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    endulge me if you will for a moment in a mental exercise:

    for a moment, imagine what our defense woudl look like if jj watt played for us. bear with me.

    how does the whole of the defense perform?

    ok, now, how does the whole of the team perform through a season and the playoffs.

    if you envision a dramtic change in our defense and our ability to win games,

    this is the evidence i submit to back my case for trading any and even all of 2014 draft picks to move up in round one and into round 1 again. making 2 picks to get 2 DOMINATING  players (im thinking dt and de). with the third pick we need a c/g who can win consistently run blocking and pass blocking.

    any other accoutrement we do in fa (though we can take a shot in the 7th and udfa for wr or db).

    we are beginning to need some experience more than youth (afer this draft) and its been a long time since weve been to the promised land and brady wont be here forever. 

    for the record, if we added a player like watt to this team, i think wed be favored to win the sb, not rated the 9th best team in power rankings (finallly dropping to this spot) in most places at the moment (where i  have had us for several weeks).

    consider.....

    [/QUOTE]

    My initial thought is, there are no JJ Watt type players in this class (6-5 295 DE's that can do it all), so trying to duplicate him in this class will not work... one could also present Chandler Jones as a reason to feel confident about the potential of landing potential impact talent in the early 20's... which would likely be BB's ceiling if he's looking to move up (on the assumption that they'll be drafting towards the back end of Rd 1).

    For the sake of this exercise, what (2) players are you locked in on (leveraging the entire 2014 draft) as guarantees to be dominant and why?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    hey mb, not jj watt duplicate.

    just talking about a dominating dt and de.. the why is explained in my post. the who is up to you individually, me, and bb to figure out. candidates examples jenkins and werner (alternatively jenkins and jordan) with  frederick in 3rd

    [/QUOTE]

    there are at least a couple or 3 at de and dt that look they are or could be dominating. so if we moved up to 12-15 we could grab who is available for example at de/olb: j jones, moore, werner, maybe jordan (we could pick the best at the number we can rise to as opposed to hoping the bottom pick makes it to us). of course the option of gambling on the upside of ansah or hunt without trading up exists. id like to be as sure as possible with brady's last few years.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think a slight move up to the early 20's is a possible option, but I don't think they have the ammo to move up a lot... don't see them leveraging much from next years draft.  If asked to give my opinion at gunpoint, my feeling is they'll trade back where possible this year to try and acquire additional picks this year or next.

    I'd be very happy with a Jesse Williams or Matt Elam etc., in the back end of Rd 1... assuming both are available.

    Kid's like Stanford OLB/DE Chase Thomas and Oregon State CB Jordan Poyer are also very appealing to me in the top 40 range.

     

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    Matt Elam says... "Happy Friday!"

     

    http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/568/612/ElamHit_original_original.gif?1349554890

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    lol ouch that looks like it hurts though not great tackling techinique. With bigger strong back that hit might or might not result in a tackle and could leave the door open for a large run around the edge. I prefer Rodney's approach which he said, when you tackle you should never leave your feet, just drop your should run and run through the player. If you leave your feet you have no control over how hard you are going to hit.

    It's is a big plus though to see Elam isn't afraid to make a big hit and another big plus that he knows how to move his head away from the point of contact

     
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    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    lol ouch that looks like it hurts though not great tackling techinique. With bigger strong back that hit might or might not result in a tackle and could leave the door open for a large run around the edge. I prefer Rodney's approach which he said, when you tackle you should never leave your feet, just drop your should run and run through the player. If you leave your feet you have no control over how hard you are going to hit.

    It's is a big plus though to see Elam isn't afraid to make a big hit and another big plus that he knows how to move his head away from the point of contact

    [/QUOTE]


    Haha, believe it or not, that back was 225 pounds (Spencer Ware, one of LSU's seemingly endless stable of big backs).  I'd agree that it's not ideal wrap and drive technique... but I'd def prefer to see a tackler explode completely through a ball carrier than just try and drop a shoulder.

    I'd have to say, of the S's that I've watched on tape (and I've seen pretty much all of them in this class), Elam... is one of, if not the best tackler... ND's Zeke Motta is up there as well... heck, I wish BB showed his DB's tape of ND games and how little YAC their DB's give up.  Imagine some sort of contract incentive where a player is bonused for not missing a tackle?  You'll never see it, but it may clean things up, ha.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2013 Patriots Draft Thread V2***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    lol ouch that looks like it hurts though not great tackling techinique. With bigger strong back that hit might or might not result in a tackle and could leave the door open for a large run around the edge. I prefer Rodney's approach which he said, when you tackle you should never leave your feet, just drop your should run and run through the player. If you leave your feet you have no control over how hard you are going to hit.

    It's is a big plus though to see Elam isn't afraid to make a big hit and another big plus that he knows how to move his head away from the point of contact

    [/QUOTE]


    Haha, believe it or not, that back was 225 pounds (Spencer Ware, one of LSU's seemingly endless stable of big backs).  I'd agree that it's not ideal wrap and drive technique... but I'd def prefer to see a tackler explode completely through a ball carrier than just try and drop a shoulder.

    I'd have to say, of the S's that I've watched on tape (and I've seen pretty much all of them in this class), Elam... is one of, if not the best tackler in this class... ND's Zeke Motta is up there as well... heck, I wish BB showed his DB's tape of ND games and how little YAC their DB's give up.  Image some sort of contract incentive where a player is bonused for not missing a tackle?  You'll never see it, but it may clean things up, ha.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree but what I think Rodney meant by dropping your shoulder was putting your shoulder into their chest and running through (that should natural make your arms wrap around just in reflex). If you notice when Rodney hit people he'd hit them with his shoulder and drove through them until they hit the ground. If Elam can tackle like that then sign me up in an instant. I just don't like the diving tackles when there is open space behind you. To much chance of a glancing blow and letting the guy run free. Stand up and either drive through him or hold him up for others to have a shot at knocking the ball out. Either way from what I've seen of Elam I think he could do this and be extremely effective doing it.

     
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