***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

    MB, any DLs or LBs surprise you?



    I'm at the office today, wish I got a chance to watch... will hopefully catch the replay tonight.



    Me too, what I could gather was M Smith, Donald, Hageman, A Johnson, Jerrigan, K Martin did very well in drills. 

     
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    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    Tyler Starr ran a 4.95. Wasn't he supposed to be fast?



    6.64 3 cone, but that 40 is slow.  Spikeslike!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    I taped the DL/LB combine and watching it now.

    this may be of minority opinion but I love Warren Sapp on NFLN just love the way he does his job.

    love it

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from APpats22. Show APpats22's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    I keep having the feeling the surprise pick of the draft by BB will be Kyle Van Noy. I don't know how i feel by this. What do you guys think? He can cover but could stand to hit the weight room more.

     

    Also I think Kevin Pierre-Louis would be a very solid pick in the lower end of the draft. He's putting up some good numbers.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46280/349/peshek-te-metrics

    Metrics article on some of the TEs that have been discussed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to APpats22's comment:

    I keep having the feeling the surprise pick of the draft by BB will be Kyle Van Noy. I don't know how i feel by this. What do you guys think? He can cover but could stand to hit the weight room more.

     

    Also I think Kevin Pierre-Louis would be a very solid pick in the lower end of the draft. He's putting up some good numbers.



    Agreed. Local kid - Brockton  Really impressed with his speed. Telvin Smith was impressive also Will LB or SS?  C Jones looked good.   A lot of guys that could help NE.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    I don't know what to make of Donald. Extremely athletic and gifted, but his size concerns me a lot. He put up a lot of reps but he did it with some of the shortest arms for DL at the combine and everyone knows short arms gives you and advantage with the bench press. I'd be concerned with his ability in gap control in the interior. I think bigger interior OL will just push him around no problem at that pro level. If you move him to DE his short arms is going to give him trouble containing the edge and might give him some issues reaching around OT's to get to QB's. Now his speed and low center of gravity gives him an advantage in a straight rush but you don't draft straight rushers in the 1st and I'm afraid he wouldn't be an ever down player given his size. The talents are their but the body isn't and I'm not sure if I'd put faith into sucha weird tweener. But, he is the underdog type people around here love to root for

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to APpats22's comment:

    I keep having the feeling the surprise pick of the draft by BB will be Kyle Van Noy. I don't know how i feel by this. What do you guys think? He can cover but could stand to hit the weight room more.

     

    Also I think Kevin Pierre-Louis would be a very solid pick in the lower end of the draft. He's putting up some good numbers.



    I can see Pierre-Louis as a UDFA

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I don't know what to make of Donald. Extremely athletic and gifted, but his size concerns me a lot. He put up a lot of reps but he did it with some of the shortest arms for DL at the combine and everyone knows short arms gives you and advantage with the bench press. I'd be concerned with his ability in gap control in the interior. I think bigger interior OL will just push him around no problem at that pro level. If you move him to DE his short arms is going to give him trouble containing the edge and might give him some issues reaching around OT's to get to QB's. Now his speed and low center of gravity gives him an advantage in a straight rush but you don't draft straight rushers in the 1st and I'm afraid he wouldn't be an ever down player given his size. The talents are their but the body isn't and I'm not sure if I'd put faith into sucha weird tweener. But, he is the underdog type people around here love to root for



    +1 pretty much agree with you on that one. Love the kid but the Patriots need a stuffer. a huge body to plug the middle to open up mayo and hightower to attack the gaps. That's why Nix and Hageman are musts to me. huge bodies and great upside too. even daquan jones is a great plug imo.

    now say this is 2-3 years ago when VW was healthy and at the top of his game I wouldnt mind taking a risk on Donald 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I don't know what to make of Donald. Extremely athletic and gifted, but his size concerns me a lot. He put up a lot of reps but he did it with some of the shortest arms for DL at the combine and everyone knows short arms gives you and advantage with the bench press. I'd be concerned with his ability in gap control in the interior. I think bigger interior OL will just push him around no problem at that pro level. If you move him to DE his short arms is going to give him trouble containing the edge and might give him some issues reaching around OT's to get to QB's. Now his speed and low center of gravity gives him an advantage in a straight rush but you don't draft straight rushers in the 1st and I'm afraid he wouldn't be an ever down player given his size. The talents are their but the body isn't and I'm not sure if I'd put faith into sucha weird tweener. But, he is the underdog type people around here love to root for



    NO need to worry about him, can't remember who said it but said he would be top 20 pick.  He's an interior pass rushing nightmare.  they showed film of senior bowl him getting under OG pads quickly on one play on another flew right by Filo.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I don't know what to make of Donald. Extremely athletic and gifted, but his size concerns me a lot. He put up a lot of reps but he did it with some of the shortest arms for DL at the combine and everyone knows short arms gives you and advantage with the bench press. I'd be concerned with his ability in gap control in the interior. I think bigger interior OL will just push him around no problem at that pro level. If you move him to DE his short arms is going to give him trouble containing the edge and might give him some issues reaching around OT's to get to QB's. Now his speed and low center of gravity gives him an advantage in a straight rush but you don't draft straight rushers in the 1st and I'm afraid he wouldn't be an ever down player given his size. The talents are their but the body isn't and I'm not sure if I'd put faith into sucha weird tweener. But, he is the underdog type people around here love to root for



    I understand your concern over his size for a DT.

    As for your argument for why he can't be a good DE, I don't. I would completely buy an argument that focuses on him not having experience there and that not many have been able to make the conversion. However, I don't know what to say about your argument for someone's potential to become good DE being bad because his arm is 1 inch shorter -- even 2 -- than those of most DEs. I'd take talent, will, power and explosiveness over 2 inches of arm length any day?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    If the Patriots take a DT in the first round it will depend on the availibility of the player. Right now Tuitt looks like the odd man out of the 1rst round so he will be availible. My choice for the DT position remains the same Rashede Hageman.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    If the Patriots take a DT in the first round it will depend on the availibility of the player. Right now Tuitt looks like the odd man out of the 1rst round so he will be availible. My choice for the DT position remains the same Rashede Hageman.



    Am I right in thinking Hageman will only work in a 4-3? If that is true is there a viable person to work towards replacing Vinny as  NT or do we trend towards abandoning the 3-4 as a staple?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    If the Patriots take a DT in the first round it will depend on the availibility of the player. Right now Tuitt looks like the odd man out of the 1rst round so he will be availible. My choice for the DT position remains the same Rashede Hageman.



    Am I right in thinking Hageman will only work in a 4-3? If that is true is there a viable person to work towards replacing Vinny as  NT or do we trend towards abandoning the 3-4 as a staple?



    I believe D Jones is one such player.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    If the Patriots take a DT in the first round it will depend on the availibility of the player. Right now Tuitt looks like the odd man out of the 1rst round so he will be availible. My choice for the DT position remains the same Rashede Hageman.



    Am I right in thinking Hageman will only work in a 4-3? If that is true is there a viable person to work towards replacing Vinny as  NT or do we trend towards abandoning the 3-4 as a staple?

    He lined up at DE/NT/DT I don't see the base defense being a problem. He's probably as close to Richard Seymour as the Patriots will ever see again. I also like D'quan Jones just not in the first round. The question for the next 10 weeks will be where are the Patriots going to double up. TE,DT,CB, OL or DB? We know they will because we have experienced the last few drafts and it's becoming part of BB's M.O., Trade up or out of the first round or double up at one specific need, then sign as many of the top tier UDFA's that he can. That my friends is a BB draft in a nutshell. I thought Collins was a good pick in round 2 last year and I didn't think he would develope as quickly as he did, but by the end of the season you could clearly see he had taken a lot of Spikes's snaps.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I don't know what to make of Donald. Extremely athletic and gifted, but his size concerns me a lot. He put up a lot of reps but he did it with some of the shortest arms for DL at the combine and everyone knows short arms gives you and advantage with the bench press. I'd be concerned with his ability in gap control in the interior. I think bigger interior OL will just push him around no problem at that pro level. If you move him to DE his short arms is going to give him trouble containing the edge and might give him some issues reaching around OT's to get to QB's. Now his speed and low center of gravity gives him an advantage in a straight rush but you don't draft straight rushers in the 1st and I'm afraid he wouldn't be an ever down player given his size. The talents are their but the body isn't and I'm not sure if I'd put faith into sucha weird tweener. But, he is the underdog type people around here love to root for



    I understand your concern over his size for a DT.

    As for your argument for why he can't be a good DE, I don't. I would completely buy an argument that focuses on him not having experience there and that not many have been able to make the conversion. However, I don't know what to say about your argument for someone's potential to become good DE being bad because his arm is 1 inch shorter -- even 2 -- than those of most DEs. I'd take talent, will, power and explosiveness over 2 inches of arm length any day?



    All things being equal 1-2" in arm length makes a massive difference believe it or not. How many finger tip tackles and sacks do we see all the time? That's a difference of inches. It's why teams like length DL, not to mention they bat down balls easier and obstruct the QB's vision. You give a guy 5" in height and an extra 2" in arm and suddenly not only does the QB have a huge blind spot to not see defenders or his receivers, but also if he has to make a pass it's an extra 7" he has to put on the ball that much higher. That's the difference between a lobe over and a bullett. There is a lot of advantages height gives to the DE, which is why you don't see many DE under 6'3". Now as a pure rusher on the outside as say an elephant that cn be at the line or drop back or rush standing up sure, it's less important but as an everydown DE that height can make a big difference

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    If the Patriots take a DT in the first round it will depend on the availibility of the player. Right now Tuitt looks like the odd man out of the 1rst round so he will be availible. My choice for the DT position remains the same Rashede Hageman.



    Am I right in thinking Hageman will only work in a 4-3? If that is true is there a viable person to work towards replacing Vinny as  NT or do we trend towards abandoning the 3-4 as a staple?



    I think Hageman could play the 3 or 5 tech.

    As for the NT position, I too like Jones as others have mentioned, I also think LTU's Justin Ellis is underrated in that capacity.  He's a big, powerful kid that moves well on tape.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

    In response to APpats22's comment:

    I keep having the feeling the surprise pick of the draft by BB will be Kyle Van Noy. I don't know how i feel by this. What do you guys think? He can cover but could stand to hit the weight room more.

     

    Also I think Kevin Pierre-Louis would be a very solid pick in the lower end of the draft. He's putting up some good numbers.



    Agreed. Local kid - Brockton  Really impressed with his speed. Telvin Smith was impressive also Will LB or SS?  C Jones looked good.   A lot of guys that could help NE.



    My school used to play Brockton until they changed the Mass HS scheduling system to align with the playoffs.  They've been a state power for as long as I can remember... huge school, have heard it said that they have either have the highest enrollment or it's the largest HS, east of the Mississippi River.  

    Telvin Smith is one of my favorite players in this entire class... ideal for today's NFL and would be huge vs. TE's and in space... kid's a freak.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from APpats22. Show APpats22's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:

    In response to jjdbrasil's comment:

    In response to APpats22's comment:

    I keep having the feeling the surprise pick of the draft by BB will be Kyle Van Noy. I don't know how i feel by this. What do you guys think? He can cover but could stand to hit the weight room more.

     

    Also I think Kevin Pierre-Louis would be a very solid pick in the lower end of the draft. He's putting up some good numbers.



    Agreed. Local kid - Brockton  Really impressed with his speed. Telvin Smith was impressive also Will LB or SS?  C Jones looked good.   A lot of guys that could help NE.



    My school used to play Brockton until they changed the Mass HS scheduling system to align with the playoffs.  They've been a state power for as long as I can remember... huge school, have heard it said that they have either have the highest enrollment or it's the largest HS, east of the Mississippi River.  

    Telvin Smith is one of my favorite players in this entire class... ideal for today's NFL and would be huge vs. TE's and in space... kid's a freak.




    Saw him play a few times since I went to Stoughton. The guy was a freak in high school. BC got a good player, he was supposed to go to Miami I think before he decided to stay in-state.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    So with the combine mostly complete, here are a few of my basic takeaways...

    -As expected, the DT depth is decent, but top-heavy.  I think that after the top 6-7 prospects, there is a significant drop-off in talent.  Like most of you, I really want to see BB grab an elite DT within the first 2 rounds.  I think he could also find a good developmental prospect in the late rounds.

    -TE is similar to DT, decent depth, but the top 4-5 guys are clearly better than the rest.  I'm still hoping for one of Niklas/ASJ/Amaro.

    -I think that best-case scenario for NE is to be able to trade back from 29 into the mid-to-high 30s, and gain a mid-rounder or two.  I think we could still land a stud DT there, and then maybe move up from 62 to land a stud TE mid-second.

    -Love the WRs.  Hope we draft 1 or 2 some time on Day 3.

    -I think we will be able to find a starting caliber Guard and/or Center in the 3rd or 4th.

    -I don't love the QB class.  Kind of hope we just keep Mallett.  If he is traded, I hope it is for a 2nd, and I like McCarron as a replacement.

    -All in all, very good class.  I hope we get 2-3 comp picks, because I think those 6th/7th rounders could be especially valuable this year.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    Some notable DB 40 times (still unofficial):

    Just Gilbert is a stud and his 4.35 likely cemented his Top 15-20 projection.

    Kyle Fuller in with a 4.40, love this kids ability and think he's a realistic option for NE at any point in the first (2) rounds.

    Darqueze Dennard witha  4.42, he's another stud that should be long gone by the time NE picks.

    Ha Ha in with a 4.50.

    Deonne Bucannan (6-1 213) with a 4.50, which is very good for a big, physical S.  I like him after Calvin Pryor... at some point on Day 2.

    Antone Exum (6-0 213) also in with a 4.50... could be a steal at some point on Day 3 as he has Day 1 or 2 ability.

    Terrence Brooks ran a 4.41 and is a physical kid from FSU... though he's only average in size (5-11 198).

    Calvin Pryor didn't run.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I don't know what to make of Donald. Extremely athletic and gifted, but his size concerns me a lot. He put up a lot of reps but he did it with some of the shortest arms for DL at the combine and everyone knows short arms gives you and advantage with the bench press. I'd be concerned with his ability in gap control in the interior. I think bigger interior OL will just push him around no problem at that pro level. If you move him to DE his short arms is going to give him trouble containing the edge and might give him some issues reaching around OT's to get to QB's. Now his speed and low center of gravity gives him an advantage in a straight rush but you don't draft straight rushers in the 1st and I'm afraid he wouldn't be an ever down player given his size. The talents are their but the body isn't and I'm not sure if I'd put faith into sucha weird tweener. But, he is the underdog type people around here love to root for



    I understand your concern over his size for a DT.

    As for your argument for why he can't be a good DE, I don't. I would completely buy an argument that focuses on him not having experience there and that not many have been able to make the conversion. However, I don't know what to say about your argument for someone's potential to become good DE being bad because his arm is 1 inch shorter -- even 2 -- than those of most DEs. I'd take talent, will, power and explosiveness over 2 inches of arm length any day?



    All things being equal 1-2" in arm length makes a massive difference believe it or not. How many finger tip tackles and sacks do we see all the time? That's a difference of inches. It's why teams like length DL, not to mention they bat down balls easier and obstruct the QB's vision. You give a guy 5" in height and an extra 2" in arm and suddenly not only does the QB have a huge blind spot to not see defenders or his receivers, but also if he has to make a pass it's an extra 7" he has to put on the ball that much higher. That's the difference between a lobe over and a bullett. There is a lot of advantages height gives to the DE, which is why you don't see many DE under 6'3". Now as a pure rusher on the outside as say an elephant that cn be at the line or drop back or rush standing up sure, it's less important but as an everydown DE that height can make a big difference



    That's the point - NOT ALL things are equal.

    Look the bottomline of the assessments is whether you think he would be a good pick or not.

    You're saying that he's 15 pounds too light/ 2 inches too short to be a DT; his arms are two inches too short to be a good DE. I am putting words in your mouth, but to me, you are saying he would be a bust.

    I am saying he is too good to let 1-2 inches or 15 pounds get in the way. I believe he would be very good in the NFL, despite those shortcoming.

    We know he is a good pass rusher. He had 28 TFLs (top in CFB in 2013; behind him were 4 DEs with 22-24 TFLs) and 11 sacks (tied for 7th). How often do we see a DT rack up pass rush stats like that? And it wasn't as if he was a one-year wonder. He had 18TFLs and 5.5 sacks in 2012; 16 TFLs and 11 sacks in 2011.

    Actually, I would not be surprised if he played DE a lot in his earlier years.

    We know he has power. Benched 35. Yeah, he has the advantage of a shorter arm - i.e, the weight creates less torque that he has to overpower. Even if you takeaway 5 reps, he'd still be tops.

    We now know he has speed. His 40 is faster than any DE this year not named Clowney, Smith, Martin or Webster. I cannot find his 10 split, but that 40 is good enough to know that his 10 split will be better than most DEs too.

    IMO, those three attributes actually imply mental toughness. even with talent, you do not get to pull all those together in one package without discipline and determination. That combination of qualities is rare.

    That combination fo qualities will give a team a team versatility. He can be moved inside/outside on a game to game basis, to create mismatches, depending on the opponent strengths/weaknesses.

    On a more permanent basis, I can see him succeeding in a team with 3 other front four players who are more fast than strong -- the type of D that did well in SBs in 2007, 2011 and 2013. In a more conventional 43, I can see him being better than okay outside. I actually think he could also do well as 34 DE.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    Stanley Jean-Baptiste also in with a 4.53U at 6-3 218... curious to see what his triangle #'s will be.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    In response to APpats22's comment:

    I keep having the feeling the surprise pick of the draft by BB will be Kyle Van Noy. I don't know how i feel by this. What do you guys think? He can cover but could stand to hit the weight room more.

     

    Also I think Kevin Pierre-Louis would be a very solid pick in the lower end of the draft. He's putting up some good numbers.



    Popular name on this board, I think most would be happy with landing him at some point inside the top (2) rounds.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2014 PATRIOTS DRAFT THREAD***

    Bradley Roby in with a 4.40U.

     
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