2nd Half Collapses

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Eng, I have been saying all along that Gronk would have made a huge difference.  I said that last year, too, after the Super Bowl, where his absence was, in my opinion, a huge problem.

     

    My problem is Gronk is one guy and when he's out, the offense really suffers.  We need more diversity in our receivers so losing one of them doesn't limit the offense so much.

    And whatever Edelman might bring to the offense, he's another guy who works short routes more than long ones and doesn't have size.  We need at least one more receiver who is a serious downfield threat with either the size or the speed (or both) to force safeties to think about what's happening in the deep middle of the field.

     

     



    The divisity part I agree with the down the field threat not so much. Having a speedy guy doesn't do us much good imo. It certainly wouldn't have helped Sunday as Brady couldn't get the ball further then 15yrds without the wind affecting it. The issue I have is having a larger WR not so much a down the field threat. I want a larger WR to work all 3 tiers of the field and will fit for a ball. Frankly a down the field threat is a nice luxury but against physical CB's hitting at the line I've seen speedy guys get taken out of games easily. Given Brady isn't getting younger his deep ball is only going to get worse which means you need someone with a large catch radius to out fight for balls. If they got speed that's a plus but size is what I'd look for first and in that case then I completly agree we should have gotten some size first and foremost but if you are going to say that then at least make a suggestion who they should have gotten that would have been happy in the 3/4 WR role at the beginning of the season. But, saying they were thin is a far cry from saying they didn't have enough divisity

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    Basically its this - during the dynasty Pats were a smashmouth football team, now they are a finesse team. Smashmouth ALWAYS beats finesse

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

    Eng, I have been saying all along that Gronk would have made a huge difference.  I said that last year, too, after the Super Bowl, where his absence was, in my opinion, a huge problem.

     

    My problem is Gronk is one guy and when he's out, the offense really suffers.  We need more diversity in our receivers so losing one of them doesn't limit the offense so much.

    And whatever Edelman might bring to the offense, he's another guy who works short routes more than long ones and doesn't have size.  We need at least one more receiver who is a serious downfield threat with either the size or the speed (or both) to force safeties to think about what's happening in the deep middle of the field.

     

     

     



    The divisity part I agree with the down the field threat not so much. Having a speedy guy doesn't do us much good imo. It certainly wouldn't have helped Sunday as Brady couldn't get the ball further then 15yrds without the wind affecting it. The issue I have is having a larger WR not so much a down the field threat. I want a larger WR to work all 3 tiers of the field and will fit for a ball. Frankly a down the field threat is a nice luxury but against physical CB's hitting at the line I've seen speedy guys get taken out of games easily. Given Brady isn't getting younger his deep ball is only going to get worse which means you need someone with a large catch radius to out fight for balls. If they got speed that's a plus but size is what I'd look for first and in that case then I completly agree we should have gotten some size first and foremost but if you are going to say that then at least make a suggestion who they should have gotten that would have been happy in the 3/4 WR role at the beginning of the season. But, saying they were thin is a far cry from saying they didn't have enough divisity

     




    Size would be great, but I don't think speed downfield is unnecessary.  Welker can get downfield and even get separation, but he's terrible catching the ball when running downfield.  If we had a speedy guy who could get separation and catch in stride without having to face the QB, that would help.  Size is great too and I'd probably rather have a big guy than a small, but even a guy like Deon Branch when he was young would be a big imrpovement.

    As far as the receiving corp being "thin" they certainly were last Sunday.  We only had three active wide receivers, plus Slater.  Even the initial roster was pretty thin, I think.  If I remember correctly, instead of the usual five to seven WRs, we had just four: Welker, Edelman, Salas, and Lloyd (five if you count Slater). 

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    It's not just "starting calibre" it's also the mix of players and the number who are involved in the passing game.  Once again, we have no receivers who can run a post route!  I don't think of the Ravens as a great passing team, but Flacco on 36 passes was able to target nine guys:

    • Boldin
    • Pitta 
    • Smith
    • Rice
    • Leach
    • Pierce
    • Jones
    • Dickson
    • Doss

     Brady threw 54 passes to just six:

    • Hernandez
    • Welker
    • Lloyd
    • Vereen
    • Branch
    • Woodhead

    You can't have multiple top-rate starters everywhere, but if you're going to rely on your passing game for offense, you should have more than three active wide receivers, one of whom (Branch) is past his prime and was cut multiple times during the year, one of whom is a tiny slot guy, and one of whom can apparently only run one route. 

     



    You only used completed passes in your  list for the Pats and according to the stats Doss and Dickson had no receptions. The 21 comp. for Flacco went to 7 guys.

     

    So you tried to make stats work for you but you got them all wrong. If you use stats don't get caught fudging them to make your case.

    Then with all your complaining what could have n been done to make the receiving better? 

     




    I said targeted, not caught.  And my stats are as accurate as the official NFL gamebook, which is where they came from.  If you're gonna criticize at least take the time to understand what I said.

     

     



    The idea of targeting certain receivers could be an issue with the QB.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

    Eng, I have been saying all along that Gronk would have made a huge difference.  I said that last year, too, after the Super Bowl, where his absence was, in my opinion, a huge problem.

     

    My problem is Gronk is one guy and when he's out, the offense really suffers.  We need more diversity in our receivers so losing one of them doesn't limit the offense so much.

    And whatever Edelman might bring to the offense, he's another guy who works short routes more than long ones and doesn't have size.  We need at least one more receiver who is a serious downfield threat with either the size or the speed (or both) to force safeties to think about what's happening in the deep middle of the field.

     

     

     



    The divisity part I agree with the down the field threat not so much. Having a speedy guy doesn't do us much good imo. It certainly wouldn't have helped Sunday as Brady couldn't get the ball further then 15yrds without the wind affecting it. The issue I have is having a larger WR not so much a down the field threat. I want a larger WR to work all 3 tiers of the field and will fit for a ball. Frankly a down the field threat is a nice luxury but against physical CB's hitting at the line I've seen speedy guys get taken out of games easily. Given Brady isn't getting younger his deep ball is only going to get worse which means you need someone with a large catch radius to out fight for balls. If they got speed that's a plus but size is what I'd look for first and in that case then I completly agree we should have gotten some size first and foremost but if you are going to say that then at least make a suggestion who they should have gotten that would have been happy in the 3/4 WR role at the beginning of the season. But, saying they were thin is a far cry from saying they didn't have enough divisity

     

     




     

    Size would be great, but I don't think speed downfield is unnecessary.  Welker can get downfield and even get separation, but he's terrible catching the ball when running downfield.  If we had a speedy guy who could get separation and catch in stride without having to face the QB, that would help.  Size is great too and I'd probably rather have a big guy than a small, but even a guy like Deon Branch when he was young would be a big imrpovement.

    As far as the receiving corp being "thin" they certainly were last Sunday.  We only had three active wide receivers, plus Slater.  Even the initial roster was pretty thin, I think.  If I remember correctly, instead of the usual five to seven WRs, we had just four: Welker, Edelman, Salas, and Lloyd (five if you count Slater). 

     



    That's the WR core not the receiving core. Receiving core covers all receivers so you have to include the TE's and receiving RB's into the discussion. When you have two TE's like Hern and Gronk they are more important to the receiving game than an additional 5th WR and same if you have two pass catching RB's. Again it comes down to where they wanted to carry 4 TE's and 4 RB's so they need room in other spots and that comes from the WR's. When you have Woodhead with a bad thumb, Gronk down, Edelman gone, and Salas was replaced by Branch in the later part of the year of course you are thinning out your receiver core. Gronk and Edelman by themselves are a 5th of your receivers and toss in Woodheads injures and you go from 8 receivers to 5 with one being Branch. You are talking over half your receivers gone in the last handful of weeks before the game. Every team will look thin at that point but to start the year you had 8 deep which is far more then most teams given the quality of starters went 5-6 deep (depending on how you see  Woodhead and Vereen)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    I posted this separately under "Harbowl ad nauseam" but a good copy & paste here I think.

    Most of the commentary above is about Welker's drop and the failure of this year's leading offensive team to score in some critical situations. And this is true but I feel that the lack of a pass rush allowing the Ravens to make many 2nd or 3rd and 10 first downs was the difference. 

     

    I really wanted a 49er-Pats SB as I did last year too. I think Pats would have beaten Alex Smith last year but if not, the loss would not have hurt as much as the 2nd one in 3 years in SBs with the dredded Giants. But this year, I don't think Pats would have beaten SF.

    Some commentaries make fun of Jim Haubaugh being a little too "Rah Rah" sort of like Pete Carroll of Seattle. Brother John is a bit more reserved. Belichick is more reserved, stoic and seems unemotional.  Personally, I don't mind Jim's antics on the sidelines.

    Here's the problem with the Pats and I know I'm simplifying this. All year they would usually score 35-40 points so defense was not a major issue. If some of you are Celtic fans it is similar to a problem Boston has had for a number of years, weak in rebounding but if they shot 45-50%, rebounding was not an issue. Many posts cited Welker's dropped pass as being the deciding factor. But, I felt the lack of a pass rush was what did Pats in with no pressure on Flacco.  Again, not a big issue if you can score 40-35 points and outscore the opponent but when you have a miserable offensive game, the defense can still rescue a team. SF was down 7-0 and 14-7 to Green Bay. They were down 17-0 to Atlanta and 24-14 at half.  In those 2 games in the 2nd half only 7 points were scored by GB when SF was up by 21, 45-24, in last meaningless 2 minutes and Falcons were held scoreless. When people think of SF, other than in the last 2 weeks with Kaepernicks ability to run, what do most people think first about SF's team...DEFENSE !!! If Pats had scored 35-40 pts Welker's drop becomes a non-issue. Pats main objective should be to draft linemen who can get to the QB & good defensive backs.

    Anyway, my $02 Cents !!!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

    Basically its this - during the dynasty Pats were a smashmouth football team, now they are a finesse team. Smashmouth ALWAYS beats finesse




    And sadly this has been proven time and time again. We need a ferocious disruptive lineman to pair with Wilfork and faster linebackers that can cover TE's. Ed Reed would help alot at safety but is probably a pipe dream. I still think he returns to the Ravens. Chandler Jones can end up being an ALL-PRO type player but he needs to stay healthy. Do you think we could get Osi up in NE next year? As bad as the offense has been in the playoffs this defense needs to start to dictate the play, be agressive, and get off of the field in 3rd a longs. It was men against boys out there on Sunday!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

    Eng, I have been saying all along that Gronk would have made a huge difference.  I said that last year, too, after the Super Bowl, where his absence was, in my opinion, a huge problem.

     

    My problem is Gronk is one guy and when he's out, the offense really suffers.  We need more diversity in our receivers so losing one of them doesn't limit the offense so much.

    And whatever Edelman might bring to the offense, he's another guy who works short routes more than long ones and doesn't have size.  We need at least one more receiver who is a serious downfield threat with either the size or the speed (or both) to force safeties to think about what's happening in the deep middle of the field.

     

     

     



    The divisity part I agree with the down the field threat not so much. Having a speedy guy doesn't do us much good imo. It certainly wouldn't have helped Sunday as Brady couldn't get the ball further then 15yrds without the wind affecting it. The issue I have is having a larger WR not so much a down the field threat. I want a larger WR to work all 3 tiers of the field and will fit for a ball. Frankly a down the field threat is a nice luxury but against physical CB's hitting at the line I've seen speedy guys get taken out of games easily. Given Brady isn't getting younger his deep ball is only going to get worse which means you need someone with a large catch radius to out fight for balls. If they got speed that's a plus but size is what I'd look for first and in that case then I completly agree we should have gotten some size first and foremost but if you are going to say that then at least make a suggestion who they should have gotten that would have been happy in the 3/4 WR role at the beginning of the season. But, saying they were thin is a far cry from saying they didn't have enough divisity

     

     




     

    Size would be great, but I don't think speed downfield is unnecessary.  Welker can get downfield and even get separation, but he's terrible catching the ball when running downfield.  If we had a speedy guy who could get separation and catch in stride without having to face the QB, that would help.  Size is great too and I'd probably rather have a big guy than a small, but even a guy like Deon Branch when he was young would be a big imrpovement.

    As far as the receiving corp being "thin" they certainly were last Sunday.  We only had three active wide receivers, plus Slater.  Even the initial roster was pretty thin, I think.  If I remember correctly, instead of the usual five to seven WRs, we had just four: Welker, Edelman, Salas, and Lloyd (five if you count Slater). 

     

     



    That's the WR core not the receiving core. Receiving core covers all receivers so you have to include the TE's and receiving RB's into the discussion. When you have two TE's like Hern and Gronk they are more important to the receiving game than an additional 5th WR and same if you have two pass catching RB's. Again it comes down to where they wanted to carry 4 TE's and 4 RB's so they need room in other spots and that comes from the WR's. When you have Woodhead with a bad thumb, Gronk down, Edelman gone, and Salas was replaced by Branch in the later part of the year of course you are thinning out your receiver core. Gronk and Edelman by themselves are a 5th of your receivers and toss in Woodheads injures and you go from 8 receivers to 5 with one being Branch. You are talking over half your receivers gone in the last handful of weeks before the game. Every team will look thin at that point but to start the year you had 8 deep which is far more then most teams given the quality of starters went 5-6 deep (depending on how you see  Woodhead and Vereen)

     



    I know TEs and RBs catch passes too and are part of the receiving corp broadly speaking. But  i was specifically referring to wideouts.  Belichick typically carries five or six. We really had just four, since i don't think you can really count Slater. That's thin, especially when you consider that Salas barely played and Edelman and Welker really duplicate each other.  This team could load up the field with slot receivers and TEs, but it was very thin at traditional wide outs.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     They played the priverbial perfect game against the proverbial underachievers.

     



    Thing is they aren't underachievers. They achieve exactly what they are supposed to. They just aren't that good against good teams.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    Really think the Pats wish they could get that last minute of the 1st half back and that Welker drop which would have given them a first down. If they could have gone up 20+ to 7, I think it's a whole different game. Overall, just a real lack of execution from both sides of the ball.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to jam757's comment:

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

     

    Basically its this - during the dynasty Pats were a smashmouth football team, now they are a finesse team. Smashmouth ALWAYS beats finesse

     




    And sadly this has been proven time and time again. We need a ferocious disruptive lineman to pair with Wilfork and faster linebackers that can cover TE's. Ed Reed would help alot at safety but is probably a pipe dream. I still think he returns to the Ravens. Chandler Jones can end up being an ALL-PRO type player but he needs to stay healthy. Do you think we could get Osi up in NE next year? As bad as the offense has been in the playoffs this defense needs to start to dictate the play, be agressive, and get off of the field in 3rd a longs. It was men against boys out there on Sunday!

     




    Outside of signing their starting free agents, I would love to see the Pats get another force in the middle to go along with Wilfork.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    So the other passes not caught by the pats none went to any other players like Vereen,  Ridley, and Hoomanxxxxx? You still used only caught by pats and targeted for Ravens. Stats are somewhat accurate not totally.

     




    Dude, please, read more carefully.  The Pats targeted just six guys all game, and all six had receptions.  Ridley and Hoomanawanui aren't on the list because they weren't targeted. Vereen is on the list because he was targeted.

    The Ravens meanwhile targeted nine guys, seven of whom had receptions.

    My whole post was about who was targeted, not who had receptions. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    As soon as they lost Talib, the game began to turn.  OK, with him in the game, who was he going to cover? JUST Boldin? Then  who covers Smith, Pitta, etc? Do you really think the Ravens wouldn't adjust? 

    It has nothing to do with a "finesse" scheme or a lack of mental toughness.  It's all about having to defend legitimate NFL receivers with special teamers like Arrington and Cole. 

    The other dirty little secret is that, without Gronk, the receiving targets are severely limited. Now, be careful.... the Pats went 6-1 without him. After all, this seems to be MORE important (regular season win totals), than any old playoff win.  How, as a passing team, do you go into a playoff game with the following active TEs and WRs? The same way you went with them in teh regular season while winning 12 games against inferior opponents.

    • Branch
    • Lloyd
    • Welker
    • Hernandez
    • Fells
    • Hoomanawanui

    Sorry, but there are only six guys on that list, three of whom are back-ups---and the three starting quality guys are all very limited in what they can do. Sorry, if it's good enough to placate pink hatters when beating the AFC East opponents, and the Jags, then it's good enough for post season play.  You can add the backs, Vereen, Woodhead, Ridley, Bolden, to the list of potential receiving targets if you like, but it's still a very thin and limited group for a team that relies so heavily on passing and has Tom Brady as it's principal offensive weapon. I believe they call this using "smoke and mirrors".

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

     They played the priverbial perfect game against the proverbial underachievers.

     

     



    Thing is they aren't underachievers. They achieve exactly what they are supposed to. They just aren't that good against good teams.

     



    True enough in a general sense.  They lost the game.  Except why were they favored by 9 points?  Vegas got creamed as public loaded up on big spread.   those guys are smarter than you and they consider NE the better team. 

    Pats had pieces in place but injuries and mistakes did them in along with excellent games by several ravens.  football is like that... Underachievers lose,  big time gamer playmakers win. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to Wizardsjag's comment:

    Really think the Pats wish they could get that last minute of the 1st half back and that Welker drop which would have given them a first down. If they could have gone up 20+ to 7, I think it's a whole different game. Overall, just a real lack of execution from both sides of the ball.



    You nailed it.  The botched half ending and Welker drop were 2 big psychological  "wins" for ravens, first holding pats to three points ( which is the goal of a defense in red area) then getting ball after 21 yard punt to compound the impact of the drop.

    While we're on psychology which is huge in the way it causes momentum swings during games, you have the additional check in the chess match by harbaugh who watches BB sheepishly punt from his 34 yard line .  refs helped it along with pi on dennard on first play but that call was correct and the defense gave up the lead.  The damage had been done...

    FAIL . strategy, offense, coaching, special teams, defense.  In that sequence , the ENTIRE TEAM failed the organization and fans. And every effort after that was too little , too late.  Check, check mate.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to AZPAT's comment:

    As soon as they lost Talib, the game began to turn.  OK, with him in the game, who was he going to cover? JUST Boldin? Then  who covers Smith, Pitta, etc? Do you really think the Ravens wouldn't adjust? 

    It has nothing to do with a "finesse" scheme or a lack of mental toughness.  It's all about having to defend legitimate NFL receivers with special teamers like Arrington and Cole. 

    The other dirty little secret is that, without Gronk, the receiving targets are severely limited. Now, be careful.... the Pats went 6-1 without him. After all, this seems to be MORE important (regular season win totals), than any old playoff win.  How, as a passing team, do you go into a playoff game with the following active TEs and WRs? The same way you went with them in teh regular season while winning 12 games against inferior opponents.

    • Branch
    • Lloyd
    • Welker
    • Hernandez
    • Fells
    • Hoomanawanui

    Sorry, but there are only six guys on that list, three of whom are back-ups---and the three starting quality guys are all very limited in what they can do. Sorry, if it's good enough to placate pink hatters when beating the AFC East opponents, and the Jags, then it's good enough for post season play.  You can add the backs, Vereen, Woodhead, Ridley, Bolden, to the list of potential receiving targets if you like, but it's still a very thin and limited group for a team that relies so heavily on passing and has Tom Brady as it's principal offensive weapon. I believe they call this using "smoke and mirrors".



    For once azz , I actually agree with you... Partially.

    You make a good point about the limitations of pats receiving group which did get glossed over in the buildup to this game.  This game exposed this.  The lack of a player like Bolden, like hakeem nicks, like Tony Gonzalez.  These guys catch balls when they are covered.  Brady doesn't throw to guys that are covered .  Flacco does, Eli does.  They win games with players like that.  Patriots don't.

    Your other point is wrong.  Talib was shutting down boldin and would have continued.  Boldin had 2 tds .  The trickle down effect of taking this option away from flacco would have been a game changer.   pats d could have bottled up rice and pitta much better without boldin catching multiple balls moving the chains.  Pats were on their proverbial heels being beaten down psychologically and flako was gaining confidence.  Bad combo.  Game over.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    I think part of the 2nd half problems is from being out coached. The Pats aren't making adjustments at least they didn't make any that worked.

    Whatever the Ravens did differently in the 2nd half they shut the Pats O down and losing Talib left the Pats coaches baffled about how to cover up his loss for 30 minutes.  

    They only have a couple of years left with Brady so they need to shore up the D and keep Gronk healthy.

    I'd love to see Charlie Weis come back or someone that can make adjustments on the fly and Romeo Crenel too. Those guys were with the Pats for all 3 SB wins and the Pats have lost 3 since then.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

     

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Except they didn't prevent the comebacks by the Rams or by Carolina. Brady and the offense just outscored them. Barely held on against Philly.

     

    Brady also gave them the lead in 2007 when they still had all the defensive heroes of yore, and they couldn't hold it. 

     




    Really? Might want to watch SB 36 again...as I recall the score was 17-17 Rams with ball and Willie MaC sacks Warner on a third down so they punt ball to Pats with under 2 mins to play....Carolina comeback was due to Brady - up 21-10 and running ball down Carolinas throat, Brady has to throw a pick in the endzone, as opposed to keep running and getting a sealing TD or at least a FG...

     

     



     

    Not sure what you're talking about?

    Fact is it was 17-3 at the start of the 4th quarter, they let the Rams tie it up with two fourth quarter TDs. Rams tied it with a three play 55 yard drive in 21 seconds with 1:30 left. Pats offense then drove 53 yards to win it on a FG.

    The great defense let Jake Delhomme score three TDs in the 4th quarter, I don't care if Brady threw an INT in endzone, that's inarguably pathetic and certainly not clutch. We're talking about Jake Delhomme! 

    Anyway, the point is the defense in those days was far from flawless, and had the exact same issues closing out teams as the OP refers to.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    This Offense doesn't click without GRONK!!  They can only beat 2nd tier teams without him.

    How about that play maker Mayo. 

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: 2nd Half Collapses

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    This Offense doesn't click without GRONK!!  They can only beat 2nd tier teams without him.

    How about that play maker Mayo. 



    you just try to find any way to bash mayo huh?

     

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