3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    This was an answer in a mail box to Tedy B....

    "Spikes is a package-specific player in this system. A run-stopping LB. The team was mainly in sub defenses against the Falcons. That's why Hightower got more reps. Hightower is a better all around 'backer in my opinion. Now with the Wilfork injury, I wouldn't put it past this coaching staff to line up in a 34 defensive look and just send Spikes into the line on an every-down basis."

    I was thinking the samething with Spikes.  Have him just use his insticts as to where a run would take place, which he has a great feel for shooting the hole and blowing up run plays in the back field.  

    This would help to get our best players onto the field as our linebackers is a strength, but Spikes sits for sub packages...  This way they can keep him on the field more often.  

    Thoughts?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from APpats22. Show APpats22's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    That would be interesting. I'd like to see how that would work.

     

     

    "I don’t know. I think Tom is probably the best leader I’ve ever been around so I wouldn’t be too critical of him. " - BB

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to APpats22's comment:

    That would be interesting. I'd like to see how that would work.

     

     

    "I don’t know. I think Tom is probably the best leader I’ve ever been around so I wouldn’t be too critical of him. " - BB



    Right, and if it turns out to be play action or what not just have him rush the QB...  

    Tedy said BB is at his best when trying to make up a loss like Vince... it's what he is best at... Hopefully he works his magic.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Tedy's probably forgotten more defensive football this hour than I will learn in my lifetime, but we don't have the bigs to run a 34. Kelly and Vellano are DEs in a 34, Jones, your best rusher, is an OLB, but he's never played there...

    Can't see it.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Maybe it can work. Without seeing it work, I am not too thrilled with the idea.

    Spikes was effective at what he does because VW and Kelly were freeing him up to do what he's good at. I don't see Spikes being able to do that at the end position, where he has the full attention of a G or T. It's hard to see how he will hold up there. He may have some success in the beginning, but probably won't be sustainable once other teams spend time planning for it.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    Tedy's probably forgotten more defensive football this hour than I will learn in my lifetime, but we don't have the bigs to run a 34. Kelly and Vellano are DEs in a 34, Jones, your best rusher, is an OLB, but he's never played there...

    Can't see it.



    Exactly. You need three bigs on the field on a 3-4, 2 bigs on a 4-3 (conventionally, that is).

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    Tedy's probably forgotten more defensive football this hour than I will learn in my lifetime, but we don't have the bigs to run a 34. Kelly and Vellano are DEs in a 34, Jones, your best rusher, is an OLB, but he's never played there...

    Can't see it.



    Don't take the 3-4 in it's literal terms.. Remember BB always says there is little difference between them when in a hybrid...  I like the thought of creating some sort of formation that allows Spikes to be almost always down hill  - and on the field.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Anything's possible in a BB-devised defensive scheme, of course.  But that strikes me as a 3-4 D-line that's on the light side although that may work to the Pats advantage against pass-happy teams.  Be interesting to see how it unfolds.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    http://nesn.com/2013/09/joe-vellano-chris-jones-looked-solid-rotating-in-for-vince-wilfork-after-patriots-nose-tackles-achilles-injury/

     

    Good article.  These guys are not as good at anything as Wilfork did, BUT they get after the QB better then Wilfork could.  Silver lining?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    We better trade for Phil Taylor if were going to a 3-4.

     

     

    Now you got the easy part done telling me about it.

    Does that handshaped bruise on your back hurt?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    http://nesn.com/2013/09/joe-vellano-chris-jones-looked-solid-rotating-in-for-vince-wilfork-after-patriots-nose-tackles-achilles-injury/

     

    Good article.  T don;t hese guys are not as good at anything as Wilfork did, BUT they get after the QB better then Wilfork could.  Silver lining?




    Right now, other teams don't know how the Pats will defend. As I said, that gives the Pats some advantage because other teams won't know how to plan and practice for the Pats. That advantage may last a couple of games... maybe a half... maybe it lasts the whole rest of the season.

    It's hard to imagine the advantage of that new approach to last the whole season, given that the team was assembled with a very different approach in mind. BB did not recruit for it, and certainly did not conduct the offseason preparing for it.

    If BB is able to make that advantage last the whole season, BB should be awarded coach of the decade.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    http://nesn.com/2013/09/joe-vellano-chris-jones-looked-solid-rotating-in-for-vince-wilfork-after-patriots-nose-tackles-achilles-injury/

     

    Good article.  T don;t hese guys are not as good at anything as Wilfork did, BUT they get after the QB better then Wilfork could.  Silver lining?

     




    Right now, other teams don't know how the Pats will defend. As I said, that gives the Pats some advantage because other teams won't know how to plan and practice for the Pats. That advantage may last a couple of games... maybe a half... maybe it lasts the whole rest of the season.

     

    It's hard to imagine the advantage of that new approach to last the whole season, given that the team was assembled with a very different approach in mind. BB did not recruit for it, and certainly did not conduct the offseason preparing for it.

    If BB is able to make that advantage last the whole season, BB should be awarded coach of the decade.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think BB has some sort of cotingency plan for most events, and as thin as they went with the interior d line and Wilfork nursing a foot injury since week 1.. I think he had some type plan even if a small one in place.  

    But I am with you.. I'm just hoping for the best.  

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    http://nesn.com/2013/09/joe-vellano-chris-jones-looked-solid-rotating-in-for-vince-wilfork-after-patriots-nose-tackles-achilles-injury/

     

    Good article.  These guys are not as good at anything as Wilfork did, BUT they get after the QB better then Wilfork could.  Silver lining?



    No real silver lining. We've seen guy after guy come in for an injured player and looked great that one game but they can't sustain over a season. Vellano and Jones are alright as backups and in random sub roles but over the course of time I don't think they can hold up. Especially when teams game plan through them and expose the weaknesses of both.

    Back to the originally thread post thought. Maybe you can have a light 34 but who's NT? Kelly? He might be a bit to old and to light to anchor the interior over the course of an entire game. NT's are usually built for either stamina to last a game or are massive bodies that takes more effort to move than to just stand there. Unfortunately at this point in his career Kelly doesn't qualify for either. If they were to go 34 they might have issues even with Spikes on the line 80% of the time. Better to go maybe a light 43 moving Nink inside and Buchanan on the edge with Vellano subbing in for both Nink and Kelly at times imo

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Angel-of-Light. Show Angel-of-Light's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    I agree with PatsEng, there is nobody on the roster who can play NT in 3-4 scheme. Vince was the guy who could. I actually thought that BB is preparing to go to 3-4 with all those LBs on the roster, but now is not the time. Finding 4-3 DT is much easier than NT for 3-4.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    I don't see a tremendous loss this way.

    Again, if playing a 34 defense is your goal ... then 34 is always going to be the solution.

    NE needs to field a good defense. Not a 34 or 43.

    In that respect, they'll have even less 34 looks (they've had almost none this season anyhow).

    The biggest impact is that Vince often ran 2-gap assignements even in the 43. With him gone, unles they can locate a suitable replacement, there will be less protection for the linebackers.

    Adding Spikes may or may not help that, though he does wade through trash better than Hightower.

     

     

     
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnCrunch. Show CaptnCrunch's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

     bumped  

     

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnCrunch. Show CaptnCrunch's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to nyjetsssucc's comment:

     

    Howdy Cap, how the heck are ya!!!   :)

     

     

    THE BUMP!!!...I remember the bump, I'm sorry to say

     

    OH the Good Ol' Days! Whats happenin' J-E-T-S...SUC, SUC, SUC! So Jetssuc, check it out......speaking of what use to be:

    With all due respect to Vince Wilfork, his season has been very pedestrian thus far, regardless of the reasons (playing hurt, age catching up, weight slowing him down, etc.), here is how he's fared to date:

    Solo Tackles: 4 Assited: 5  Total: 9

    That said, Tomy Kelly shows more productivity:

    Solo Tackles: 10 Assited: 9  Total: 19

    I realize that this is only a small sample size, and that without Vince we lose more than player production, but also genuine leadership. BUT as for performance, Vince was far from being the dominant force that we all knew as reacently as early last year and he wasn't going to improve at 31+ and 400lbs. So, I say this could end up being a blessing in disguise..........Would I rather have a healthy Vince? Time will tell. Regardless, I beleive that Bill will do what he always does and make lemonade out of lemons........

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Exactly Captin... Wilfork might have been 85% of what he was out there.  

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnCrunch. Show CaptnCrunch's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    Exactly Captin... Wilfork might have been 85% of what he was out there.  

     



    Ya know Getzo, you ride that horse until it brakes down in pro sports. Especially if the player has unusual intangibles like leadership and in Vince's case width and size as an immovable object. But once change takes place, there's a chance to return to versatility which Vince didnt possess any longer. Call me glass half full on this one. 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnCrunch. Show CaptnCrunch's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to nyjetsssucc's comment:

     

     


    Vince is a loss if only for the fact he usually tied up 2 OLinemen...but he hadn't been playing as well, he was grossly overweight (that was obvious and i'M SURE HE WAS 4 BILLS IF A POUND, HE HASN'T BEEN 325 FOR 3 SEASONS) (SORRY FOR THE CAPS)....my only concern is Kelly being relied on the play every snap of every game...they still need reinforcements up front...for rotational purposes is nothing else....I agree...BB will mix and match something, he's the original defensive alchemist

     

     

    Diggit! I am in agreement that D-line is thin and has been even with Vince. So, we gotta grab someone ASAP for the body and the quick blow. Armstead's health becomes hugely important now. But in lieu of finding a soid fill in, Bill goes more 4-LB packages with more stuns to cross up the linemen when one of the lesser BIGs is in there. I say A STAR IS BORN outta this loss though.


     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

     

     Without Vince, they've lost their biggest, stoutest middle defender.  Replacing him with a LB to go 3-4 will make your front even lighter unless you also get heavier ends than Jones and Nink. I suspect we stay 4-3, though it is possible we'll go with a more athletic DT and penetrate more than two-gap from that DT position.

     

     
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