3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't forget SB loss in Feb . That makes 4 out of last 7.  And lets go back further to 2004.  Sh!tty playoff record.

    here's my theory .  The coaches are choking .  Since Weis and crennel have left  we have lacked big game play calling ability.  we went from top level experienced in charge coaching to AMATEUR HOUR.

    No cohesive  strategy  on either side of the ball during the decisive moments of the game.

    I call it "BB  assistant syndrome " , the main symptom being vanilla predictable playcalling resulting from the pressure of working under the "genius "...

    look at that last series against Seattle . 4 And out when all we needed was a field goal.  USE WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED DURING THE GAME AND CALL PLAYS THAT WILL WORK.

    The talents on this team .  These close game losses are on the coaches ... OC,DC,  AND BB.

     

    sorry about the caps but this has been a mediocre body of work in these big games...


    The coaches don't talk so who knows what their philosophy is.  Weis did an interview after the 2004 SB and he talked about how he ran plays in the first quarter to specifically learn something he could use in the 4th quarter.  Like show a little something but save a number of plays for that situation where it HAS TO work. Big game management .  This is what we are missing .

    i appreciate all you guys talking about how many years you've been fans, and I agree that we are a tad spoiled by this teams success.

     I've been around a while also and you guys may remember a thread  I posted in 2005 titled " weis-guy will be missed".  I sensed then but it has been proven now how vital strategic play calling is to winning close games. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:

    I see it differently. I have followed this team passionately for 40+ years. The last 12 of those have been the BEST years to be a Pats fan in the history of the franchise. This coincides with the hiring of BB, the drafting of TB, the great defense of the early to mid 2000s and the prolific offense of the past half dozen or so seasons. I have heard over and over again how the Pats have lost it, that they are on the way down, that BB has lost the team, that the game has passed him by, that they can't win because of injuries, that their LBs or RBs or WRs or Safeties stink and dont belong in this league, or that the Jets or the Bills or the Dolphins will overtake them in the East. And yet at the end of the year, there they are at the top of the division, almost every year going deep into the playoffs, making it to the Super Bowl 5 times in 11 years. I think there are so many Johnny-come-lately fans now that they don't know or don't remember what having a BAD football team is really like. I do. It sucks. I actually read one poster on here who said the fans are 'entitled' to more from the team. Really? After 6 games you are deciding that you somehow deserve more? I think they give their best every week. Do the losses hurt? You bet they do. Do you think BB is not doing absolutely everything he can to get things straightened out and corrected? The guy is by far the most dedicated individual to ever run this (and possibly any) team in their history. He has got the job done consistently, year after year. Do I have blind faith? No. I have questioned BB and TB about decisions they made and passes they threw and gotten beaten up on this board for doing it. But I believe in long term results, and not the 'what have you done for me lately' mentality that this board has become.



    I too have been following this team for about 35 years myself. I remember getting beer spilled on my at Schaefer Stadium. I think that from 2001-2007 was the most incredible run of any sports team I was ever a fan of (for me it was more fun the the Celtics of the 1980s - maybe because they won all three SBs in that span - maybe because I was old and could enjoy it more).

    I disagree about the the last six years though. I still feel like in 2007 they changed their fundamental philosophy. They went for flash over substance. They became the teams we had mocked previously, "The Greatest Show on Turf" and the Colts high-powered offense with average at best defenses.

    Addressing the part that I bolded. Is he trying to straighten it out? I am sure he is, is it really so wrong to question his solutions. The defensive backfield has basically turned over twice in the past 6 years. The defense has gotten worse (I am just looking at league ranks) over that time. Whatever he is trying is not working. 

    Meantime, the coaching staff is full of people who have only ever worked for him, everything is Bill's way. Last weekend, Pete Carroll figure out how to slow down the Patriots offense in the second half and the Patriots defense got worse as the game went along. 

    I totally agree about judging on long-term results, but how long do the Super Bowl teams from 8-10 years ago count as valid evidence of how good BB and Brady are in today's NFL? When do they Tom Landry's or Don Shula's championships? Mike Shanahan won back-to-back Super Bowls 15 years ago, but I do not think that gives the people in Washington comfort today.

    Personally, I still think that the Brady/Belichick combo has enough in the tank for one or too more runs, but we need to realistic... The two Super Bowl losses were missed opportunities. They were the better team in both of those games. Two years ago when the got knocked by the Jets when the had the best record in the NFL was a missed opportunity. There are not going to be that many more of those... I want to see them take advantage of them when the come up. The way they have been playing a coaching over the past several seasons makes me wonder if they still have that in them.



    The defense that helped carry them to 3 championships was pretty much done before 2007. BB and the team knew it and had to start the rebuilding process. Instead of starting from scratch, they went the route of 'we have the best QB in the league, lets use that and give him some top weapons (Welker and Moss) and try to keep on top by outscoring people while we rebuild the defense'. It has worked to a degree, not with the ultimate goal of another ring or two, but to the point where they at least compete every year. They have done a good job of rebuilding the front 7, I still have hope that the young DBs will be successful. What I think it really shows is how difficult it is to build a strong team on both sides of the ball, especially when you are drafting at the end of the rounds rather than accumulating top 15 picks year after year.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    A few plays here and there and the Patriots could have just as easily lost in '01, '03 & '04 and won in '07 & '11. Think about that for a minute.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    it used to be that the patriots had an advantage over every team because so they were so well coached and so good at situational football.....havent seen a whole lot of that this season so far...but things can change...i do trust BB will right the ship.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    They haven't been blown out that's for sure. Everyone else but Atlanta has this year. They are a few plays away from 6-0 and haven't got on track yet. Watch out when they do.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In the 3 losses the Pats ran for an average of 84 and change a game.

    In the 3 wins the Pats averaged 224 yards running.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Do you want to be a New Orleans Saints fan?



    . . . . . . . 

    The fans on here that question, Brady, Belichick or both, are trying to figure out why being the best regular season team for such a long stretch stop leading to Super Bowl victories. Clearly, there is some flaw in how the team is either put together or is performing on the field. 

    For me being does not mean blindly accepting that and just assuming that the team will "figure it out" based on things they did 10 years ago with an almost entirely different roster.



    Respectfully, so the alternative to the team figuring it out is exactly what?  Not figuring it out?  Fan boycott?  Sending hate mail to Kraft, BB, Brady, whoever?

    This forum is all about fan commentary regardless if it's negative or positive.  I get that.  But I guess I'm wondering, seriously, your alternative to having faith in a class franchise, owned by a class organization, managed and coached by a superior talent with one of the best quarterbacks in the game is what?



    My point is that I used to have faith in this coach and quarterback and starting with the first Super Bowl loss it has been eroding. I (and I think a lot of other fans) are trying to figure what has changed that has caused one of the best coaches of all time with one of the best QBs of all time to come up short one way or another for along stretch.

    Looking at this team objectively, they clearly changed from balance to a slightly defensive first team to an offense first team in the 2007 season. Just look at the stats. From 2001-2006, this team averaged being the number 8 offense in the NFL (without every being higher than 4) and the number 7 defense (including two years where they were the number 2 defense and one where they were the top).

    From 2007-2012, they are the number 3 offense (being the top offense three times) and the number 9 defense (with the defense declining in that period 4, 8, 5, 8, 15, 15). 

    I guess some of this comes down to what being a fan means to you. To me it means cheering for the team, wanting them to win, being upset when they lose, but not necessarily thinking everything they do is correct, that they are always getting screwed by the refs, or that they will magically figure out what is wrong with the team based on things that happened ten years ago.

    So I come on places like this and vent about my opinions of what is wrong, or I argue about it with my friends over a beer. I like to hear what other think even if I disagree with them. To me the people that drive me crazy are those that just say, Belichick with fix it because he is a genius, we will win because we have Brady, the Patriot way is the only way, etc. For me being a fan of a team does not mean blind faith.



    Now that, sir, was what I would refer to as a thoughtful and comprehensive response.  I do get where you're coming from.  And, truth be told, we are probably closer in our views than I originally suspected.  Thanks for taking the time to reply. 

    Summing it up - Go Pats but fix some of these things will you please, BB?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleTimmy31. Show LittleTimmy31's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    It really is too bad we all put so much time, effort, and passion into football and how it disrupts good psyche when our team, the Pats, sh*t the bed with these preventable 1 or 2 point losses!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    Here's my theory:

    Winning the Super Bowl every year isn't possible.  People's expectations have gone completely out of whack because the team has been so damn good year after year since 2001.

     

    What other team in the NFL has been as consistently good for so long a period?  I think you'd need to go back to the San Francisco teams during the Montana years to find anything close to comparable. 

     

    If there's a problem with the team, it's keeping the talent level high when, because of a consistently high finishing position, you earn lower draft picks every year.  That's the challenge BB has dealt with since he started winning so much.  The draft system is designed to bring good teams back to the middle of the pack and allow bad teams to get better.  Add to that a salary cap that is designed to maintain parity, and you see the challenge BB faces.

    Given those obstacles, BB has done a remarkable job of keeping the team winning every year (even in 2008 when he lost his starting QB).  There's a lot of complaining about coaching, but really it's the coaching that has kept this team in contention despite the talent challenges. 

    Some will say I'm criticizing BB's skills as a GM.  Emphatically, I'm not.  I think the reason the talent is weaker than it ideally could be is because of the structural obstacles I described above--i.e., the fact that winning teams get low draft picks and that there's a salary cap designed to enforce parity.  Add to those structural issues, the fact that we've lost a few top draft picks (compensation for BB when he came from the Jets and "spygate"), and you see that the Pats have been significantly handicapped in acquiring top talent.  BB has done a decent job keeping quality acceptable given those barriers.

    BB's genius has always been finding workable combinations of players and then adjusting schemes to get the most out of them.  He continues to do this. Last year was a prime example.  In my opinion that team did not have nearly the talent it takes to win a championship--but they made it all the way to the Super Bowl.  Why was that?  The answer is simple: great coaching. 

    My suggestion to all the hysterical types.  Stop all the hand wringing, pop open a beer, and just sit back and enjoy what you've got.  It's a rare event when a team ends up in playoff contention every year for more than a decade . . . and it's one you may never experience again in your lifetime. Enjoy it while you've got it.  It may not last. 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Here's my theory:

    Winning the Super Bowl every year isn't possible.  People's expectations have gone completely out of whack because the team has been so damn good year after year since 2001.

     

    What other team in the NFL has been as consistently good for so long a period?  I think you'd need to go back to the San Francisco teams during the Montana years to find anything close to comparable. 

     Prolate- you  really  are  a  koolaid  drinker.  You  say  winning  the  superbowl  every  year  isn't  possible.  NEWSFLASH :  The  PATS  haven't  won  the  SB  going  on  8  years.  That's  not  even  close  to  winning  every  year.  Secondly, you  say  you  aren't  going  to  criticize  BB's  GM  ability - primarily  b/c  the  PATS  earn  lower  draft  picks  every  year.  That's  a  bogus  argument.  Everyone  knows  BB  can't  draft  or develop  defensive  backs.  And  what  about  free  agent  signings ?  The  clowns  ( ie.  Haynesworth, Chad  Johnson, Ellis, Buress, Fanene  and  others )  BB  has  signed  the  past  several  years  have  all  been  busts.  Name a  solid  free  agent  signing  in  the  past  5  years.  That  has  nothing  to  do  with  where  the  PATS  draft.  Incredibly, you  say, "  BB's  genius  has  always  been  finding  workable  combinations  of  players."  Are  you  kidding  me ?  Workable  combinations  like  McCourty, Chung, Arrington, Moore  Dowling  and  Gregory  who  consistently  make  rookie  QB's  look  like  Joe  Montana ?  The  pathetic  PATS  D  has  cost  them  atleast  3  SB's.  Brady  has  always  been  BB's  meal  ticket.  Belichek  had  better  retire  when  TB  leaves  the  game.  Otherwise, he'll  be  exposed  even  more.  And  please  don't  bring  up  the  '08  season.  The  PATS  FAILED  to  make  the  playoffs  and  they  had  an  easy  schedule.  

    If there's a problem with the team, it's keeping the talent level high when, because of a consistently high finishing position, you earn lower draft picks every year.  That's the challenge BB has dealt with since he started winning so much.  The draft system is designed to bring good teams back to the middle of the pack and allow bad teams to get better.  Add to that a salary cap that is designed to maintain parity, and you see the challenge BB faces.

    Given those obstacles, BB has done a remarkable job of keeping the team winning every year (even in 2008 when he lost his starting QB).  There's a lot of complaining about coaching, but really it's the coaching that has kept this team in contention despite the talent challenges. 

    Some will say I'm criticizing BB's skills as a GM.  Emphatically, I'm not.  I think the reason the talent is weaker than it ideally could be is because of the structural obstacles I described above--i.e., the fact that winning teams get low draft picks and that there's a salary cap designed to enforce parity.  Add to those structural issues, the fact that we've lost a few top draft picks (compensation for BB when he came from the Jets and "spygate"), and you see that the Pats have been significantly handicapped in acquiring top talent.  BB has done a decent job keeping quality acceptable given those barriers.

    BB's genius has always been finding workable combinations of players and then adjusting schemes to get the most out of them.  He continues to do this. Last year was a prime example.  In my opinion that team did not have nearly the talent it takes to win a championship--but they made it all the way to the Super Bowl.  Why was that?  The answer is simple: great coaching. 

    My suggestion to all the hysterical types.  Stop all the hand wringing, pop open a beer, and just sit back and enjoy what you've got.  It's a rare event when a team ends up in playoff contention every year for more than a decade . . . and it's one you may never experience again in your lifetime. Enjoy it while you've got it.  It may not last. 

     




     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Here's my theory:

    Winning the Super Bowl every year isn't possible.  People's expectations have gone completely out of whack because the team has been so damn good year after year since 2001.

     

    What other team in the NFL has been as consistently good for so long a period?  I think you'd need to go back to the San Francisco teams during the Montana years to find anything close to comparable. 

     

    If there's a problem with the team, it's keeping the talent level high when, because of a consistently high finishing position, you earn lower draft picks every year.  That's the challenge BB has dealt with since he started winning so much.  The draft system is designed to bring good teams back to the middle of the pack and allow bad teams to get better.  Add to that a salary cap that is designed to maintain parity, and you see the challenge BB faces.

    Given those obstacles, BB has done a remarkable job of keeping the team winning every year (even in 2008 when he lost his starting QB).  There's a lot of complaining about coaching, but really it's the coaching that has kept this team in contention despite the talent challenges. 

    Some will say I'm criticizing BB's skills as a GM.  Emphatically, I'm not.  I think the reason the talent is weaker than it ideally could be is because of the structural obstacles I described above--i.e., the fact that winning teams get low draft picks and that there's a salary cap designed to enforce parity.  Add to those structural issues, the fact that we've lost a few top draft picks (compensation for BB when he came from the Jets and "spygate"), and you see that the Pats have been significantly handicapped in acquiring top talent.  BB has done a decent job keeping quality acceptable given those barriers.

    BB's genius has always been finding workable combinations of players and then adjusting schemes to get the most out of them.  He continues to do this. Last year was a prime example.  In my opinion that team did not have nearly the talent it takes to win a championship--but they made it all the way to the Super Bowl.  Why was that?  The answer is simple: great coaching. 

    My suggestion to all the hysterical types.  Stop all the hand wringing, pop open a beer, and just sit back and enjoy what you've got.  It's a rare event when a team ends up in playoff contention every year for more than a decade . . . and it's one you may never experience again in your lifetime. Enjoy it while you've got it.  It may not last. 

     



    +1

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    Just goes too shows how important good coaching is and unfortunately we haven't had much of it this year.



    YESSIR.... THOSE COACHES NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB ON DEEP ROUTES THAT GASH THEN (CONTINUALLY AND CONSISTENTLY) DOWN THE MIDDLE. i HAVE NO COACHING EXPERIENCE IN FOOTBALL, BUT I CAN FIGURE OUT THAT LETTING A WR GET BEHIND YOUR SAFETY IS DEFINITELY NOT A GOOD THING TO HAVE HAPPEN.... AGAIN.... CONTIUNUALLY.....CONSISTENTLY... 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    My late Dad used to tell me "stealing a dollar versus stealing a million dollars is the same thing, stealing is stealing"

    A loss by one point or 10 is still a loss. Useless stat to me. We are 3-3, it's go time. 



    lol it's not the same thing when you are being sentenced by a judge.. unless you also think serving 10 days is the same as serving 10 years... serving time is serving time LMAO



    Uh, I believe the poiunt is that BOTH "steals" are crimes.

    Sad you can't read it that way, but wiuld rather look at your own qualifiers to fit your perspective. Now, THAT is LMFAO time. (Are you running for any elected office?) 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to Paul_K's comment:

    I sometimes love a good conspiracy theory.  In the case of the replacement refs, I feel that they only really blew plays at the ends of games, and always to throw the game violently over to the other team.  The culprit might well have been the refs union, who may have cut a secret deal with a few of the scabs to make the NFL Commish lose lunch every single week.  Nothing specifically against the Patriots, just the labor business, as any Green Bay fan will tell you.

    The Patriots had just scored the winning touchdown against Arizona, with 1 minute to go, when it was called back because of a phantom holding call against Gronkowski, plus the call pushed the Pats out of field goal range at the time.   Then the refs couldn't call the next game's crucial field goal even though the two of them were standing right behind each goal post.  That handles two of the losses.  Seattle went out and won in part because they have one of the best homefield advantages in the NFL, especially against an East Coast team on the early side of Eastern Standard Time.  Both Patriot coaches and players took one look at Pacific coastal waters on their descent into Seattle and immediately conked out like Sleeping Beauty eating a poisoned apple. 



    Guess you should don the Zebra threads. Unless, of course, THAT'S a x"conspiracy" too....
    Fact is the Pats gakked up doub le digit 4th qtr leads. Stop blaming things like the refs, the wind, a WR droppo\ing an overthrown pass, a TE not diving to catch an underthrown toss, or a RB fumbling when he's hit 3 yardss in teh backfield by half the opposing defense. Strap yiurswelf in for this one:  THIS TEAM SCARES NO ONE IN ANY ASPECT OF THE GAME!!!!

    They turned an "over the hill, creaky-armed, can't throw a ball more than 15 yards" passer (future HOF'er, BTW) into a 350 yard, 4 TD machine (again). They turned a draft pick out of Wisconsin into a world beater in Seattle, and they LOST to the freakin' Cardinals at HOME. Stow teh garbage about the refs. Explain how they blew the BLOCKED FREAKIN" PUNT inside their own 5 yd line, Einstein.  

    They've turned into offensive stat hogs, and defensive seives. Remember the good old days wehn a REAL Pats fan would rail on Pay-a-ton because stats were all he got? Seems to me that Brady is doing the same freaking thing, and not the inability to win obviously falls someplace else. Sorry, but Tom Terrific has gotten into a rut.... a HUGE inability to pull out games late in teh 4th qtr, DESPITE any/all thinbgs that had transpired in the first 3.

    Young and learnig nDefense? Sorry, but they continually turn in a "F" performance. Same for Brady with double digit leads in the 4th qtr.... HUGE "F".

    Yes, folks... the truth DOES hurt, and it WILL set you free. All you need to do is see it, admit it's there, and then DO something about it.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to sporter81's comment:

    They haven't been blown out that's for sure. Everyone else but Atlanta has this year. They are a few plays away from 6-0 and haven't got on track yet. Watch out when they do.



    They are also a play or two away from being 2-4 (see: Denver game, and traditional 4th Qtr roll over).

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    Bunker... Brady is good enough to execute plays that are called providing the defense isn't stacked against the tendency you have repeated over and over. 

    This thread is about losing close games, close BIG games .  Your play calling strategy has to be better than the opponent, both sides of the ball. OR you need vastly superior talent .

    you look back at SB wins with givens brown Patten, Smith, old Dillon, ... NO WAY are these players better talent.   D had Seymour, Harrison 2, bruschi,  law 2,  McGuinnest, ..playmakers but not really dominant.

    BB got the credit , but people it was the OC AND DC WHO CALLED THE PLAYS and implemented their strategy in REAL TIME to win these games.

    None of you seem to get this .  The overall performance of this team is good (very). .. But the close game losses  compared to the close game dominance in 03, 04 is so obvious it's slapping  you in the face.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: 3 losses by 4 total pts....WTF, seriously

    In response to jri37's comment:

    In response to AZPAT's comment:

    In response to sporter81's comment:

    They haven't been blown out that's for sure. Everyone else but Atlanta has this year. They are a few plays away from 6-0 and haven't got on track yet. Watch out when they do.



    They are also a play or two away from being 2-4 (see: Denver game, and traditional 4th Qtr roll over).




    You could look at it that way. I think the 6-0 scenario is more likely becasue they controlled the every game going into the 4th quarter in all of the games they lost. It really doesn't matter because they are 3-3 and need to clean up the issues in their secondary and they need to start executing plays in crunch time.



    +1

     
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