32 high draft picks over 7 years.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
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    In response to melwitts' comment:
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    In response to Footballexpert45's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    List for me, from these 32 picks in the first 3 rounds since 2006, the ones you think were GREAT picks at their spot in the draft?

    Here they are.

    Thomas, Jackson, Maroney, Meriweather, Mayo, Wheatley, Crable, O'Connel, Chung, Brace, Butler, Vollmer, Tate, McKenzie, McCourty, Gronk, Cunningham, Spikes, Price, Solder, Dowling, Vereen, Ridley, Mallet, Jones, Hightower, Wilson, Bequette, Collins, Dobson, Ryan and Harmon.

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    That Maroney pick really hurts, the could have taken Deangelo Williams

    With Merriweather, they could have drafted Jon Beason or even Greg Olsen.

    In 2009, Darius Butler was taken just ahead of Jarius Byrd in the 2nd.  

    Lots of big misses as far as I can see, the worst being Rasi, a 2nd rd pick that gave the Pats literally nothing!

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    Milliner...Coples...Geno Smith...Sanchize...Ghoulston.....

    I have to stop...this is too easy...

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You forgot Ducasse in Rd 2 and Ellis in Rd 3.   Also, Stephen HIll is a 2nd rder who morphed into a bust this year.

    They have so many busts, it's unbelievable.   D'Bustashaw Fergsuon was 4th overall in 2006 and leads their team every year in penalties and sacks allowed.  You could argue someone that average for so long has been a bust.

    Most top 5 picks as a Tackle are considered HOF candidates.  Boselli, Ogden, etc.

    With the Jets, they're overrated and basically outright busts. No wonder their QBs can't get time to grow and perform there. D'Bustashaw.

    [/QUOTE]

    And there is the deflection we all knew was coming.  Instead of facing the facts of the poor drafting, all you can do is bring up other teams.  In other words, you agree, Ridley, Vereen, RasI, Mallett, Cunningham, etc etc ALL BUSTS.  

    Tell me, who is that other best drafting team in the cap era that hasn't won a superbowl in a decade?

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-redsox-rule. Show the-redsox-rule's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    Mayo, Gronk and for where spikes was drafted i may go with him too.. vereen in the 3rd looks great too.

    great- Mayo Gronk

    Good- Vereen, Jones, Spikes, Vollmer, McCourty, Rid

    Average- Solder

    [/QUOTE]

    i agree with this.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I cannot believe he's doing this again.

    The fact is, 2006 was his worst draft because of the disappointing Maroney and whiff on JAckson.  2007, you have to count Moss and Welker as picks because he knew he had his team buillt already, so, really whoever he drafted, they were going to have a tough time making the club anyway.

    That's why a good pick like Mincey in 2006 didn't make the team.  He then went to Jax and played well.  The young guns past Rd 1 or 2 were going to have a TOUGH time making those entrenched, veteran clubs.  The only mishap was Jacksond didn't work out and Branch had to be dealt. Past that, I don't see where the major pattern of blunders falls, probably because it's all rhetoric from very irrational people who own Brady dolls in closets.

    ANyway, 2008 was a weak draft class but BB hit a homerun with Mayo, grabbed SLater and ended up grabbing an UDFA like BJGE.  Not bad.  Pretty good for such a weak class.

    In 2009, this was his worst draft overall, mainly because of injuries and some guys who flat out weren't Pats material at the end of the day. UDFAs like Arrington proved to be a nice find as he's a great nickel player and Edelman is clearly very valuable.  Vollmer is a very good RT, obviously has dealt with injuries.   Ryan Wendell also turned out to be an UDFA find as well.  So, not good on the top end, but the bulk of the yield pays off to this very day.  If that is the worst, then I'd say he's done pretty darn good.

     

     

    In closing.........it's 2013 and we missed on 2 SBs which had little to do with the 2006 or 2007 drafts. HIs 2010 draft was quite good even with the Hernandez situation being what it is now.  So, the SBs attended in 2007 and 2011 have nothing to do with any misses BB had in the drafts since 2006. Every GM has a list of names that they didn't hit on, most of them FAR LONGER and WORSE than this list.

    In fact, the 2010 draft is a HUGE reason we went to SB 46.   Babe likes to try to dig himself a deeper and deeper hole trying to point to BB the GM every time we lose a game, especially when it appears our offense could have been run better by, none other than Tom Brady himself in the red zone.

    The "More Proof" thread is very damning to Babe and his ilk simply because it spells out what I've said for years. Brady CHOOSES multiple plays that are fed into him by a guy who is a friend, who wants to pass to set up the run, and then when Brady isn't effective with it, and we lose, no one wants to know why.  Brady also "prefers"the shotgun, so if that starting 4th qtr drive ended with a run into the end zone to finish it, maybe we win that game instead of lose it? Once you stop running completely, you'd told the D, any subbed in RB from there on out will be in there to be given a faux/obligatory hand off, which clearly doesn't work. We saw that in SB 46 with a 17-9 lead and BJGE only barely ended up with 8 carries.  It's just ridiculous.

    Who is the common denominator through all of this? It ain't Bill O'Brien. It ain't even McDaniels. It's Tom Brady.   

    Well, I know who the common denominator is and who should take on a lot of the accountability and somehow doesn't. Brady.

    And it has nothing to do with Chad Jackson not working out in the 2006 draft.

    Finally, draft picks also didn't make the base of a team in those days like the do now, so any misses on a veteran team back then weren't as bad as anyone claims here, on ESPN or on Felger and Mazz. All the rhetoric is overblown and always wa$.  ESPN can make money off of our team by bashing BB irrationally, plain and simple, and Babe is one of those minions who took the cheese.

    Not one GM has had better yields since BB transitioned away from the old way of teambuilding into the lockout. And not one of them has been better with salary allocation either.  BB is so good with this aspect, the Hernandez situation won't even affect our team very much. That's how good BB has been as the best GM of the cap era, and hence, of all time.

    Thanks again to BB.

    [/QUOTE]


    Apparently you cannot answer a simple question without going into a long winded diatribe of spin.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
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    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
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    I cannot believe he's doing this again.

    The fact is, 2006 was his worst draft because of the disappointing Maroney and whiff on JAckson.  2007, you have to count Moss and Welker as picks because he knew he had his team buillt already, so, really whoever he drafted, they were going to have a tough time making the club anyway.

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    No you don't.  How absurd.

    [/QUOTE]


    Guys like Rusty like to count a Moss or Welker as draft picks to try and jack up BB's draft performance. Honest persons see right through that ploy. But notice when BB gives up players for a draft pick, they include the player gained from the pick into his draft record. It's them having their cake and eating it too.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    List for me, from these 32 picks in the first 3 rounds since 2006, the ones you think were GREAT picks at their spot in the draft?

    Here they are.

    babe I put my response next to each name....

    Thomas, David thomas? I didn't think we needed him at that spot, although he was the captain of the national championship team.

    Jackson, was a great pick at that spot and we drafted for necessity.  Most analyst's agreed.

    Maroney, same as Jackson, if we didn't take him the colts were a few picks later great pick at a position of need. Dungy spoke of this.

    Meriweather i liked getting the UM player where we did, needed some attitude, unfortunately he had no brains.

    Mayo, great pick, top 5 ILB in the league.

    , Wheatley was a bust, still in the league.

    Crable couldnt stay healthy, a reach too

    O'Connel I didn't like that pick I think 3rd rounder no? Bad pick imo

    Chung solid pick drafting a position of need from a good school.

    Brace, developmental player....who never got developed or couldn't stay healthy.

    Butler, great pick had 3 interceptions in 1 game last week but 1 called back on a penalty.Didnt get coached up or had some kind of attitude/ defiency. Solid corner for colts.

    Vollmer, great pick, starting RT on a great yearly top 5 offensive line.

    Tate solid player still a contributor but we know how wr's develop in our system...not at all.

    McKenzie injury case.

    McCourty, great pick, 7 picks his 1st year, but a better safety.

    Gronk great pick, caught more tds in his 1st 3 years then any player in NFL history.

    Cunningham, bust

    Spikes, good pick, good run stuffer.

    Price i thought he was a reach at the time.

    Solder great pick, way better then anthony costanzo we passed up, who I thought we should have picked.

    Dowling, injury gamble that didnt pay off.

    Vereen, great pick.

    Ridley, greay pick

    Mallet great pick and a steal

    Jones, great pick

    Hightower, great pick

    Wilson, tavon? Bust and reach

    Bequette,i liked this pick even though it was considered a reach but apparently he wasnt nfl ready.

    Collins, great pick brings much needed athleticism

    Dobson, great pick, position of need

    Ryan good pick

    and Harmon solid pick, like the big frame, need a hitter back there!

    Good thread babe!

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    I've got you down for - Jackson, Maroney, Mayo, Butler, Vollmer, McCourty, Gronk, Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Mallet, Jones, Hightower, Collins and Dobson as GREAT picks.

    I think you've told the world all it needs to know about your level of objectivity TC. Thanks for responding.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to Footballexpert45's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    List for me, from these 32 picks in the first 3 rounds since 2006, the ones you think were GREAT picks at their spot in the draft?

    Here they are.

    Thomas, Jackson, Maroney, Meriweather, Mayo, Wheatley, Crable, O'Connel, Chung, Brace, Butler, Vollmer, Tate, McKenzie, McCourty, Gronk, Cunningham, Spikes, Price, Solder, Dowling, Vereen, Ridley, Mallet, Jones, Hightower, Wilson, Bequette, Collins, Dobson, Ryan and Harmon.

    [/QUOTE]

    That Maroney pick really hurts, the could have taken Deangelo Williams

    With Merriweather, they could have drafted Jon Beason or even Greg Olsen.

    In 2009, Darius Butler was taken just ahead of Jarius Byrd in the 2nd.  

    Lots of big misses as far as I can see, the worst being Rasi, a 2nd rd pick that gave the Pats literally nothing!

    [/QUOTE]


    Even some of the most effective guys he picked have had a suspect return. Gronk and Vollmer have been injury problems, but then, they were risky picks that had dropped in the draft for that very reason.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    List for me, from these 32 picks in the first 3 rounds since 2006, the ones you think were GREAT picks at their spot in the draft?

    Here they are.

    Thomas, Jackson, Maroney, Meriweather, Mayo, Wheatley, Crable, O'Connel, Chung, Brace, Butler, Vollmer, Tate, McKenzie, McCourty, Gronk, Cunningham, Spikes, Price, Solder, Dowling, Vereen, Ridley, Mallet, Jones, Hightower, Wilson, Bequette, Collins, Dobson, Ryan and Harmon.

    [/QUOTE]


    Great pick= Chandler Jones. I'd put Gronk here as well, but he fell in the draft because of injuries - then he got injured, again, and again and again. And let's not forget we passed over players to get him....didn't we trade out of the spot that Clay Mathews was selected?

    Truth is during that time span all those players were selected we had MORE draft selections than anyone and were considered super smart for moving all around the draft board, yet we ended up with a bunch of crap. That was our future right there and we blew it big time. In all that time, and in all those selections we never were able to find a corner, safety or defensive tackle (kind of important when you're "rebuilding a defense"). I'd also say we never were able to draft a wide receiver that could play or a feature back.

    The worst part is our draft selections are not nearly as bad as our free agent signings during that period.

    And for all the undrafted free agent lovers on this forum...BJGE has proven to be terrible...he is 139th in YPC average...32nd in yards amongst running backs...25th in rushing touchdowns. A guy like Justin Francis (who everyone put in the hall of fame last year) is not in football a year later. Arrington is a total meatball. Vellano and Jones probably won't be in football next year and are spearheading the worst rush defense in the NFL. Fletcher can't run ten yards to cover someone. And remember all these "uncovered jems" are only here because the first five guys Belichick brings in for their position FAIL miserably. You can thank Belichick the coach for duct taping this thing together and putting lesser talent players in the right spots off of heavy heavy coaching and preparation.

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    Truth be told, that list is a disaster, and it clearly shows why the best coach and QB in the business have fallen short of winning it all for 8 years running. It's a damned shame BB's ego doesn't allow for him to admit he just isn't so hot at team building.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-redsox-rule. Show the-redsox-rule's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I cannot believe he's doing this again.

    The fact is, 2006 was his worst draft because of the disappointing Maroney and whiff on JAckson.  2007, you have to count Moss and Welker as picks because he knew he had his team buillt already, so, really whoever he drafted, they were going to have a tough time making the club anyway.

    [/QUOTE]

    No you don't.  How absurd.

    [/QUOTE]


    Guys like Rusty like to count a Moss or Welker as draft picks to try and jack up BB's draft performance. Honest persons see right through that ploy. But notice when BB gives up players for a draft pick, they include the player gained from the pick into his draft record. It's them having their cake and eating it too.

    [/QUOTE]

    they certainly have some holes to fill in next years draft. dt o line  te    ... cant waste any picks on players that are not even on any teams draft boards. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    List for me, from these 32 picks in the first 3 rounds since 2006, the ones you think were GREAT picks at their spot in the draft?

    Here they are.

    babe I put my response next to each name....

    Thomas, David thomas? I didn't think we needed him at that spot, although he was the captain of the national championship team.

    Jackson, was a great pick at that spot and we drafted for necessity.  Most analyst's agreed.

    Maroney, same as Jackson, if we didn't take him the colts were a few picks later great pick at a position of need. Dungy spoke of this.

    Meriweather i liked getting the UM player where we did, needed some attitude, unfortunately he had no brains.

    Mayo, great pick, top 5 ILB in the league.

    , Wheatley was a bust, still in the league.

    Crable couldnt stay healthy, a reach too

    O'Connel I didn't like that pick I think 3rd rounder no? Bad pick imo

    Chung solid pick drafting a position of need from a good school.

    Brace, developmental player....who never got developed or couldn't stay healthy.

    Butler, great pick had 3 interceptions in 1 game last week but 1 called back on a penalty.Didnt get coached up or had some kind of attitude/ defiency. Solid corner for colts.

    Vollmer, great pick, starting RT on a great yearly top 5 offensive line.

    Tate solid player still a contributor but we know how wr's develop in our system...not at all.

    McKenzie injury case.

    McCourty, great pick, 7 picks his 1st year, but a better safety.

    Gronk great pick, caught more tds in his 1st 3 years then any player in NFL history.

    Cunningham, bust

    Spikes, good pick, good run stuffer.

    Price i thought he was a reach at the time.

    Solder great pick, way better then anthony costanzo we passed up, who I thought we should have picked.

    Dowling, injury gamble that didnt pay off.

    Vereen, great pick.

    Ridley, greay pick

    Mallet great pick and a steal

    Jones, great pick

    Hightower, great pick

    Wilson, tavon? Bust and reach

    Bequette,i liked this pick even though it was considered a reach but apparently he wasnt nfl ready.

    Collins, great pick brings much needed athleticism

    Dobson, great pick, position of need

    Ryan good pick

    and Harmon solid pick, like the big frame, need a hitter back there!

    Good thread babe!

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    LOL!

    Babe exposed.

    [/QUOTE]


    More like you and TC exposed, which is why I made the thread. The list puts the whole sordid mess in one place for all to see. Someone defending that list is an easy indicator of them being delusional, or a liar or both.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Tell, the board, Busty how the Jets have not won a SB since the NFL merger in 1970.

    Tell us.

    I've already explained why Brady has underperformed in the postseason since 2007 and not played like we need him in two SBs in 5 years.

    2 SB appearances in 5 years is not a decade. Learn math.

    Brady not playing well in 2007 in the postseason or recently has nothing to do with BB's drafts. It has to do with Brady.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You've already been schooled over and over and over and over about the lie of Brady not playing well in 2 SBs.

    Just answer the question as to which on that list you consider GREAT picks.

    Don't deflect yet another thread into your Brady bashing nonsense.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not being a BB apologist, but it should be taken into consideration that the Patriots have drafted at the end of the draft every year since 2001 since they have had success on the field every single year.  The early draft picks they did have were from trades with other teams and not consistently picked at the top of the draft in later rounds.

    [/QUOTE]

         This tired, old argument fails to hold water. Here we go again:

    1.) 2006: BB used the 21st overall pick on RB Laurence Maroney, the 36th overall pick on WR Chad Jackson, and the 86th overall pick on TE David Thomas;

    2.) 2007: BB selected FS Brandon Meriweather at #24;

    3.) 2008: Selected LB Jerod Mayo at #10, the forgetable CB Terrence Wheatley at #62, the even more forgetable LB Shaun "Betty Grable" Crable at #78, and QB Kevin O'Connell at #94;

    4.) 2009: BB took SS Patrick Chung at #34, DT Ron Brace at #40, CB Darius Butler at #41, OT Sebastien Vollmer at #58, WR Brandon Tate at #83, and LB Tyrone McKenzie at #97;

    5.) 2010: Selected DB Devin McCourty at #27, TE Rob Gronkowski at #42, DE Jermaine Cunningham at #53, LB Brandon Spikes at #62, and WR Taylor Price at #90;

    6.) 2011: Took OT Nate Solder at #17, CB Ras-I Dowling at #33, RB Shane Vereen at #56, RB Stevan Ridley at #73, QB Ryan Mallett at #74;

    7.) 2012: BB selected DE Chandler Jones at #21, LB Dont'a Hightower at #25, the incomparable SS Tavon Wilson at #48, and Jake Bequette at #90;

    8.) 2013: The Pats drafted LB Jamie Collins at #52, WR Aaron Dobson at #59, CB Logan Ryan at #83, and SS Duron Harmon at #91.  

         It's unfair to judge the 2013 draft class after one year. But, from 2006-12, the Pats had seven (7) first round draft picks, 12 second round draft picks, and nine (9) third round picks. That's a grand total of 28 top 100 picks, over seven (7) years.

         Of the seven (7) first rounders, four (4) have become good players.

         Of the 12 second rounders, only Vollmer, Gronk, and Vereen have panned out.

         Of the nine (9) third rounders, only Stevan Ridley has contibuted.

         So...of these 28 top 100 picks, only eight have been worthwhile. That's just 29% hits, and a whopping 71% failures. Keep this in mind when you ask yourselves why the Patriots have gotten old at certain positions, and have been forced to comb the free agency scrap heap for players?   

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I cannot believe he's doing this again.

    [/QUOTE]

    Doing what again? I asked a question. I haven't asked this question before. I didn't put any slant on the question whatsoever.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    It would be interesting to look at the other 31 teams in the league during these same 7 years.  How many have had any better success than the Patriots.  Every team has some hits and some misses.  Most kids coming out of college have strengths and weaknesses.  The NFL is bigger, faster, and stronger than the college ranks.  Many first rounders never make it in the nfl.  Vollmer was thought to be a reach when BB picked him.  Many would take him in an earlier round if the draft was done over.  Jones, Mayo, Dennard, Vereen, Ryan, Allen, etc.  make up a fine groups of selections and UDFA's.  If fans think that BB does not draft well, please go root for Oakland, San diego, Dallas, Washington, etc.  They usually have a high draft pick and do so well at  selecting players.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to msteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would be interesting to look at the other 31 teams in the league during these same 7 years.  How many have had any better success than the Patriots.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Steelers, Giants, Colts, Saints, Packers and Ravens have all had more success than us since 2005. This is clear, unless one puts value in division titles rather than the SB.

    And not a one of them has had the advantage of BB as HC and Brady as QB. So logic dictates that they must have had a better team surrounding the HC and QB; unless one thinks they had a better combo than BB&TB. If one thinks that BB&TB are as good or better than any other HC&QB combo, then that has to mean those other teams had a better GM who built a better team around their lesser HC&QB.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    List for me, from these 32 picks in the first 3 rounds since 2006, the ones you think were GREAT picks at their spot in the draft?

    Here they are.

    babe I put my response next to each name....

    Thomas, David thomas? I didn't think we needed him at that spot, although he was the captain of the national championship team.

    Jackson, was a great pick at that spot and we drafted for necessity.  Most analyst's agreed.

    Maroney, same as Jackson, if we didn't take him the colts were a few picks later great pick at a position of need. Dungy spoke of this.

    Meriweather i liked getting the UM player where we did, needed some attitude, unfortunately he had no brains.

    Mayo, great pick, top 5 ILB in the league.

    , Wheatley was a bust, still in the league.

    Crable couldnt stay healthy, a reach too

    O'Connel I didn't like that pick I think 3rd rounder no? Bad pick imo

    Chung solid pick drafting a position of need from a good school.

    Brace, developmental player....who never got developed or couldn't stay healthy.

    Butler, great pick had 3 interceptions in 1 game last week but 1 called back on a penalty.Didnt get coached up or had some kind of attitude/ defiency. Solid corner for colts.

    Vollmer, great pick, starting RT on a great yearly top 5 offensive line.

    Tate solid player still a contributor but we know how wr's develop in our system...not at all.

    McKenzie injury case.

    McCourty, great pick, 7 picks his 1st year, but a better safety.

    Gronk great pick, caught more tds in his 1st 3 years then any player in NFL history.

    Cunningham, bust

    Spikes, good pick, good run stuffer.

    Price i thought he was a reach at the time.

    Solder great pick, way better then anthony costanzo we passed up, who I thought we should have picked.

    Dowling, injury gamble that didnt pay off.

    Vereen, great pick.

    Ridley, greay pick

    Mallet great pick and a steal

    Jones, great pick

    Hightower, great pick

    Wilson, tavon? Bust and reach

    Bequette,i liked this pick even though it was considered a reach but apparently he wasnt nfl ready.

    Collins, great pick brings much needed athleticism

    Dobson, great pick, position of need

    Ryan good pick

    and Harmon solid pick, like the big frame, need a hitter back there!

    Good thread babe!

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    I've got you down for - Jackson, Maroney, Mayo, Butler, Vollmer, McCourty, Gronk, Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Mallet, Jones, Hightower, Collins and Dobson as GREAT picks.

    I think you've told the world all it needs to know about your level of objectivity TC. Thanks for responding.

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't make me dig up the national responses to the Maroney and Chad Jackson picks. Especially fans on this board. I had to out texas pat on this before ss he wrote his most glowing drsft report csrd ever after 2006, only to condemn that as BB's worst year ever 6 years after the fsct. Point being, were those picks bad picks at the time of the draft?  No. 

    Then again, I forgot that guys who come and run for 1200 yards and 12 tds their 1st yesr starting are not great 3rd round picks. Or that MLB's who lead us in tackles every year and captain our defense's are not great picks.

    Actually, I forgot I was talking to a guy with an agenda to tear down BB, so I guess I wouldn't expect you to be deterred by an objective analysis. 

    Anybody on this board who says they didn't love the Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney picks at the time we made them is lying.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to msteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would be interesting to look at the other 31 teams in the league during these same 7 years.  How many have had any better success than the Patriots.  Every team has some hits and some misses.  Most kids coming out of college have strengths and weaknesses.  The NFL is bigger, faster, and stronger than the college ranks.  Many first rounders never make it in the nfl.  Vollmer was thought to be a reach when BB picked him.  Many would take him in an earlier round if the draft was done over.  Jones, Mayo, Dennard, Vereen, Ryan, Allen, etc.  make up a fine groups of selections and UDFA's.  If fans think that BB does not draft well, please go root for Oakland, San diego, Dallas, Washington, etc.  They usually have a high draft pick and do so well at  selecting players.

    [/QUOTE]

    None of them had more succes, and none of them had as many draft picks. BB loads up on more picks, which means that more guys will not flourish on the team,  because they had less of a chance by being drafted into more competition.  If we have 8 or 9 draft picks a year on a roster that competes for SB's every year( not the Raiders) then it will be more difficult for guys to stick, as they are fighting for a spot against guys who are already playing on a championship team. 

    But guys who want to try and tesr down what Bill Belichick has built in N.E will not let that facy slow them down. Bb sucks! Lol

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anybody on this board who says they didn't love the Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney picks at the time we made them is lying.

    [/QUOTE]

    That shouldn't be the standard.  It certainly isn't mine.  I expect every team will try to address their areas of need at some point in each draft.

    But in sports, it's all about production and results.  That can only be judged after some time has passed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anybody on this board who says they didn't love the Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney picks at the time we made them is lying.

    [/QUOTE]

    That shouldn't be the standard.  It certainly isn't mine.  I expect every team will try to address their areas of need at some point in each draft.

    But in sports, it's all about production and results.  That can only be judged after some time has passed.

    [/QUOTE]

    But that was the question, list the picks "you thought were great ". Well in 2006 each and everyone of us thought those picks were great. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anybody on this board who says they didn't love the Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney picks at the time we made them is lying.

    [/QUOTE]

    That shouldn't be the standard.  It certainly isn't mine.  I expect every team will try to address their areas of need at some point in each draft.

    But in sports, it's all about production and results.  That can only be judged after some time has passed.

    [/QUOTE]

    But that was the question, list the picks "you thought were great ". Well in 2006 each and everyone of us thought those picks were great. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll give you that.  The better question, IMO, is how great those picks looked 3 years later.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    List for me, from these 32 picks in the first 3 rounds since 2006, the ones you think were GREAT picks at their spot in the draft?

    Here they are.

    babe I put my response next to each name....

    Thomas, David thomas? I didn't think we needed him at that spot, although he was the captain of the national championship team.

    Jackson, was a great pick at that spot and we drafted for necessity.  Most analyst's agreed.

    Maroney, same as Jackson, if we didn't take him the colts were a few picks later great pick at a position of need. Dungy spoke of this.

    Meriweather i liked getting the UM player where we did, needed some attitude, unfortunately he had no brains.

    Mayo, great pick, top 5 ILB in the league.

    , Wheatley was a bust, still in the league.

    Crable couldnt stay healthy, a reach too

    O'Connel I didn't like that pick I think 3rd rounder no? Bad pick imo

    Chung solid pick drafting a position of need from a good school.

    Brace, developmental player....who never got developed or couldn't stay healthy.

    Butler, great pick had 3 interceptions in 1 game last week but 1 called back on a penalty.Didnt get coached up or had some kind of attitude/ defiency. Solid corner for colts.

    Vollmer, great pick, starting RT on a great yearly top 5 offensive line.

    Tate solid player still a contributor but we know how wr's develop in our system...not at all.

    McKenzie injury case.

    McCourty, great pick, 7 picks his 1st year, but a better safety.

    Gronk great pick, caught more tds in his 1st 3 years then any player in NFL history.

    Cunningham, bust

    Spikes, good pick, good run stuffer.

    Price i thought he was a reach at the time.

    Solder great pick, way better then anthony costanzo we passed up, who I thought we should have picked.

    Dowling, injury gamble that didnt pay off.

    Vereen, great pick.

    Ridley, greay pick

    Mallet great pick and a steal

    Jones, great pick

    Hightower, great pick

    Wilson, tavon? Bust and reach

    Bequette,i liked this pick even though it was considered a reach but apparently he wasnt nfl ready.

    Collins, great pick brings much needed athleticism

    Dobson, great pick, position of need

    Ryan good pick

    and Harmon solid pick, like the big frame, need a hitter back there!

    Good thread babe!




    [/QUOTE]

    I've got you down for - Jackson, Maroney, Mayo, Butler, Vollmer, McCourty, Gronk, Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Mallet, Jones, Hightower, Collins and Dobson as GREAT picks.

    I think you've told the world all it needs to know about your level of objectivity TC. Thanks for responding.

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't make me dig up the national responses to the Maroney and Chad Jackson picks. Especially fans on this board. I had to out texas pat on this before ss he wrote his most glowing drsft report csrd ever after 2006, only to condemn that as BB's worst year ever 6 years after the fsct. Point being, were those picks bad picks at the time of the draft?  No. 

    Then again, I forgot that guys who come and run for 1200 yards and 12 tds their 1st yesr starting are not great 3rd round picks. Or that MLB's who lead us in tackles every year and captain our defense's are not great picks.

    Actually, I forgot I was talking to a guy with an agenda to tear down BB, so I guess I wouldn't expect you to be deterred by an objective analysis. 

    Anybody on this board who says they didn't love the Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney picks at the time we made them is lying.

    [/QUOTE]


    If I want to tear down BB so bad, why do I freely call him the best coach in the game? That kind of throws a monkey wrench into your theory, TC.

     

    But saying they were a "great pick" at the time simply makes no sense whatsoever. The worth of a pick is realized only after they actually play. That's the whole point of determining if they were a great pick or not.

    This concept you are embracing here is a real head scratcher. I just can't recall anybody ever proposing that a draft pick's quality is determined when they are drafted, rather than after they have shown how well they can play in the NFL.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anybody on this board who says they didn't love the Chad Jackson and Laurence Maroney picks at the time we made them is lying.

    [/QUOTE]

    That shouldn't be the standard.  It certainly isn't mine.  I expect every team will try to address their areas of need at some point in each draft.

    But in sports, it's all about production and results.  That can only be judged after some time has passed.

    [/QUOTE]

    But that was the question, list the picks "you thought were great ". Well in 2006 each and everyone of us thought those picks were great. 

    [/QUOTE]


    That actually wasn't the question, TC. The question was who were "the ones you think were GREAT picks ", not "thought" were great picks.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    But haven't we done this to death? 

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    But saying they were a "great pick" at the time simply makes no sense whatsoever. The worth of a pick is realized only after they actually play. That's the whole point of determining if they were a great pick or not.

    This concept you are embracing here is a real head scratcher. I just can't recall anybody ever proposing that a draft pick's quality is determined when they are drafted, rather than after they have shown how well they can play in the NFL.

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe, I agree with you on how to measure the worth of a pick.   However, given that, you really should not include the 2013 draft class and the 2012 class inclusion is debatable as well.  Not enough time has passed.

    You are trying to have it both ways.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death? 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I actually think periodic reviews are good.   Considering that the lifespan of the avg. NFL player is only about 3 years, and the regular season lasts only 4 months, you only have a total of 12 months of seeing the guy play.

    This type of thread once a month during the regular season seems quite appropriate to me.   A guy like Jamie Collins, for instance, was barely playing a month ago.

     
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