32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    Since the Cleveland game:

    Brady and the rest of the New England Patriots' offense is the hottest story in the NFL at the moment. In the last five games -- all wins -- the Patriots have averaged 39 points a game and looked unstoppable. What goes unnoticed is the progress the young defense has made. In the same five-game stretch, the defense has 10 sacks, 11 interceptions and has given up just one touchdown pass.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    The other teams can gain all the yards they can/want/do or whatever appleis.  What matters is whether or not they score and they don't seem to be doing much of that lately.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    I care. Because if anything happens to the offense to slow it down there are QBs out there who can light it up.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?


    I care, but the fact is we are the 32nd ranked pass defense, with 20 interceptions and 2nd in the league in this category right behind Philly with 22.

    It's hard to reconcile these 2 weird facts, but that facts speak for themselves. I'm not worried about being the 32nd ranked pass defense as long as we can keep forcing turnovers on defense. If this happens, we will be OK. If not and the offense dries up, we are in trouble.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from R3S1N20. Show R3S1N20's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    isnt it actually the 27th Randked D now. not much better but atleast its not dead last
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

     I agree, the stats aren't showing the real content of the Patriots defense.

    Whike the chargas have been playing real crappy offenses to make their stats look good
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reloadedagent31. Show Reloadedagent31's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    The Patriots are now out the bottom 5 in pass defense, it should be noted that they really haven't given up big plays. Arrington & McCourty haven't been burnt deep often this season, maybe at all. That should be an encouraging sign that they don't give up the big play. I'm somewhat disappointed that no one is cutting the defense some slack. Spikes, McCourty, Cunningham, Deaderick & Love are all rookies. Arrington, Chung, Pryor, Butler & Brace are all sophomores. Mayo & Guyton are in their 3rd year. That's about one-half the defense and none of these guys were on the 2007 squad. It helps the young defense having an offense with a reliable running game and possession receivers to take time off the clock while scoring. If New England takes care of business these next two weeks, they will have an inside track to the Superbowl w/ a 1st round bye and homefield.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    The Pats may be 31st in pass defense yards according to ESPN, but that's not a particularly functional statistic. 

    First, the Patriot prevent defense gives up a huge number of yards, 8 yards at a time, when it doesn't count.  Their prevent offense plays right into the prevent defense.  Much of the time late in the fourth quarter, the Pats run the ball three times and then Mesko booms it 50 yards.  This puts the prevent defense on the field.  The prevent defense has a rule that if the opponent needs a touchdown or two quickly, then the defense will always double cover or triple cover the deep ball but give up the 8 yard run or the 8 yard pass.  So the other side's defense marches down the field, eating up their own clock.  The Patriots usually win this type of game but the score gets closer.  I'm on a crusade against counting tickytack touchdowns because they are meaningless in predicting future victories, and I'm doubly down on tickytack prevent yardage.  It's not real.  The best you can say about such yardage is that it lulls the next opponent to sleep, but whaling on the Jets and Bears really gets Green Bay's attention. 

    Second, the Pats are two different teams when it comes to giving up not-so-meaningful yards versus field goal yards.  They play two different defenses.  One defense is between the opponent's 5 yard line and their own 40.  The Patriots' defense has priorities in this zone:  knock the quarterback down, go for a few interceptions and play the run, things that are going to matter late in the game.  Stopping the opponent cold is not one of their priorities in this zone.  Field position isn't really important when Brady's on the bench.  So let the opponent throw ten 5-yard passes and pick off one.  Notice how the Patriots want to lead the NFL in interceptions.  They have 20, and also they have lots of yards after the interceptions even if that's not a widely kept statistic. 

    Brady hasn't thrown an interception in maybe 8 games now.  Maybe that shows how highly interceptions are rated by BB.

    Between the Patriots' own 40 and their own 30 is a 3 point difference.  The Patriots clamp down right at this spot.  The opponent punts from the 35.  The ball goes into the endzone and it comes back out at the 20.

    The next clampdown is any first and 10 between about the Patriots 13 yard line and the 9 yard line.  Stop the other team here and save 4 points.  The Patriots cover the run solidly when they need to, and the downfield passing area has now shrunk to about 20 yards at most.  Occasionally Mike Reiss computes the Patriots' NFL ranking in red zone touchdowns given up.  The Patriots are way up there, maybe 3rd?  They're not 27th at all. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    I'm sure BB and Bob Kraft care.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from erstwhilebuddha. Show erstwhilebuddha's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    The improvement is all realted to McCourty. When BB was talking this week to Ordway, and discussing players (new to their system) he talked about an A-B-C kind of approach. Once the player gets the hang of A, they move on to B, once he gets the hang of B they can move on to C, so forth and so on. At some point this season McCourty became the type of corner that shuts down half the defensive backfield allowing BB to play the zone defense he loves, think Ty Law in his hey-day. One shut down corner is essential to this scheme, and once BB had the faith in MCCourty to play that role and be able to know all the responsibilites, he was free to open his defensive playbook and run the classic N.E.P. defense that won 3 rings. Asante could never do this, McCourty can. Without McCourty it will be back to limited defensive schemes and the safties will have to do more to cover the sidelines deep, leaving everything over the middle open, much like early this season.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    You don't get points for yards
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LatenightOwl. Show LatenightOwl's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    I'm glad you guys are seeing stats aren't always indicative of the end result of who's better.  Stats can skew what the truth is on the whole of an issue.

    For example, even though Peyton Manning is having a tougher year this year, he is the better QB overall.  Another example, the Chargers are 8-6, but are playing better football than the Jets, Ravens, and Steelers since November. 

    DOH! You probably didn't mean those statistics.

    Justification for selective use of information can make even the surest argument fail.  Practice what you preach, otherwise don't say it at all. Whats good for the Patriots, is good for the rest of the NFL.
     
    While the Patriots defense has improved exponentially since the start of the season, lets not call stats meaningless because you think it does not reflect what you want to see.  Otherwise the 39 pt average over the last 5 weeks is-- "meaningless" to the predictability of the Patriots scoring offense.  I mean according to most of you, stats are fake when gained on non-playoff teams. It should be noted then, 3 of those 5 teams were non-playoff teams.  (Detroit, fake NYJ, and down and out Indy)  And since its customary to point out how other teams play weaker opponents, we should be fair to this stretch of dominance by the Patriots.


    In Conclusion, don't give justifying opinions on statistical information unless you are willing to accept the hard negative aspects as well.  We all know the Patriots are playing better than what the stats show recently.  You just look silly picking and choosing what stats you like and what stats you ignore as proof of an argument.

    The only stat that matters is 11-2.  
       
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    It's relatively simple. Though the defense gives up more yardage than most, it's points that matter. Their red zone defense is much higher in the rankings. The offense can drive down the field methodically, but they can also score quickly if need be. Let the other team move the ball down the field in small increments. Eventually they stall, or the defense forces a turnover. No points (sometimes maybe 3), and valuable time off the clock. If they light it up in the first half on offense it makes the defense a lot easier. More throws = more INTs. All the while these guys are growing up in the NFL. Can you imagine what this squad will look like in 2-3 years? As Patriots fans we should know how much stats count. Manning and the Colts have tons of stats, how many rings do they have? In the end, it all boils down to only one relevant stat. And that is wins. NE has the most of those in the league. I'll take that stat any day over some media number crunch!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtics12345. Show Celtics12345's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    In Response to Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?:
    [QUOTE]You don't get points for yards
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]
    I love you.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    +18 in the turnover department. We force them and we don't give them up. That ,plus Brady's ability to score at wil, will help this team going forward and throughout the playoffs. The Defense is peaking at the right time just like alot of people (including myself) said it would. It will be a much better defense in week 16 than it was in week 2.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dont-hate. Show dont-hate's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    Stats are for losers. 

    The three teams leading the league in the team Passing Defense stat are:

    1 Chargers (8-6)
    2 Giants (9-4)
    3 Green Bay (8-5)

    None of these teams are even leading their divisions.
    If the playoffs were held right now, only the Giants would make it in by the wildcard..
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mar10fern. Show mar10fern's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    Ranked 16th in points allowed per game...And climbing.  Will probably be in the top 10 by end of season since they are lumped in the middle with many other teams and only a few points separating them.  They are not playing any high power O's the rest of the way!

    A number of the supposed TOP D's have been exposed somewhat by the Pat's as well as other good O's.  Baltimore, Pitt, NY, Chicago, and this week GB will most likely be exposed as well.  This ain't your daddy's NFL!  D's are severely handicapped for the sake of a higher scoring "more entertaining" NFL product.  

    BB coaches his D with disregard to yards allowed. The Pats rank at the very top in # of passes allowed over 45 yards, but near the bottom in just about every other passing category.  Clearly the mantra is don't get beat deep.  Once they are backed in their own red zone they are a much tougher D.

    Obviously I am not saying that BB just gives away the first 80 yards of turf to make a stand inside his 20.  He just doesn't believe that the opposition can matriculate the ball down the field in small increments of 5-15 yards for 70 or 80 yards a pop on a regular basis without making a mistake (dropped pass, fumble, penalty, missed assignment) that will give his D a down/distance advantage.  When the down/distance advantage tilts toward his D, that's when he will be more aggresive.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    It's not just McCourty, although he's made a huge difference, no doubt about that. He's going to the Pro Bowl on the left side for the AFC. He's been by far and away the best LCB in the AFC this year.  Incredible start to his career.

    I have said this before and will stay on it:

    BB simplifies things down and puts the onus on the players.

    This is where his geniues lies: Teaching basic concepts and getting many players to buy into it and play as one unit.

    His genius is the simplicity, but channeling it throughout the entire roster.

    He's got them going in and out of man and zone coverages as disguises now, where he pulls the plug when he wants it with Patricia (based on what the opponent is doing on offesne with playcalls),

    Where before (August, Sept, Oct), he seemed to want them to learn zone on the fly (what to do, where to be, etc, based on Patricia's calls).

    Now, opponent's O Coordinators can't just call plays to expose the seams in the zone.  Instead of 15 yard wide open WRs, we see zones sealed and the occasional interception now.

    Or, we see WRs fearful of getting whacked and dropping balls.

    Let the dopes stare at stat sheets. They don't get it and never will.  This is exactly what they did from 2001-2004 when NE was making SB runs. They said they had no Pro Bowlers and always had excuses as to why the D wasn't good (too slow, old, no Pro Bowlers, not enough sacks, etc).

    BB has been doing this with his defenses, or at least trying, for 10 years here.  The difference is obviously the youth and experience, where from 2001-2009, his defenses were veterans, especially in the secondary.

    Slam dunk coach of the year for BB, yet again, and it ain't close.  This isn't a 4-3 college level, one dimensional D.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reloadedagent31. Show Reloadedagent31's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    As bad as they could end in pass dedense this season, they could end up top 5 in interceptions, turnovers, turnover differential; and top 10 in scoring defense.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnp3a. Show mnp3a's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    defense has been improving, 3rd down defense too and there are no high scoring teams in the last three games.

    i still worry about the pass defense, not because its ranked 27.

    people talk a lot about how this is by design, and BB will let teams move the ball in small increments on time consuming drives.

    i think that is seeing the glass half full:

    both the colts and the steelers scored at will on lightining fast drives against that "prevent d"

    that worries me.

    of course, i hope that come crunch time in the playoffs the defense will show its growth and make big plays.

    i'm confident, but just not as confident as some of you: manning, brees or even rivers could put 21+ points in the 4th.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    Why should two good QBs seeing a prevent D or making a good/great pass or 2 be"concerning"?

    Some of you need to watch more NFL football. Plenty of good/great Ds give up TDs.

    It doesn't worry me at all.  Gomer threw 3 seeds for TDs outside the red zone (one to Wayne before half and two to Blair White).

    You tip your cap on those.  Is this that hard to do?  Do people expect humans ot be perfect robots against top echelon AFC teams all the time? Sheesh.

    With the Rapelisturd TDs late, that was clear garbage time.  NE had 2 separate 19 points leads in the 4th qtr and wanted to set up time off the clock, it's just that Pitt made a play to get a TD to cut the lead back down, far quicker than NE would have liked.

    Very, very limited examples within a context of some pretty good QBs seeing an easier situation on the field or simply making good plays.

    Some fans still want to complain about garbage time TDs and pretend it connects with how the D performs within a gameplan.

    When the dogs are called off, so to speak, or a D is beaten on a good play, these are not fundamental red flags to me. Sorry, not buying that.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnp3a. Show mnp3a's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    i like the way you put it. it's just that "they" have not been able to stop (not even control) manning/brees in quite a while.

    of course, this is a different team, but i'd like to watch a game when they are up 20 against manning, and not be thinking "ok, 4th, here they come"

    i really like the way this D is playing, and growing.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    Brees? Dude, he plays in the NFC.  That was 2009.  No excuses, they were bad and inexperienced against the SB winning juggernaut offense.

    I would argue the opposite with regards to Manning. This is the window where a Colts, SD, Pitt or Balt should be zooming right past NE in the AFC, and they aren't.

    In 2009, the defense picked Manning twice in Indy, basically contained that offense well for 56 minutes until a phantom PI call helped them keep a drive alive, and then the 4th and 2 happened.    NE completely outplayed Indy in that game.  

    In 2010, they picked Manning 3 times, totally confused him, albeit where he made a good comeback by making some great passes.  There isn't much you can do when you have a Safety on a quicker slot WR or Reggie Wayne, a perrenial Pro Bowler, beating Arrington.

    I think the Indy game is a good example of 2 errors basically setting up 14 points.

    NE has befuddled Gomer more than some fans want to admit.   You aren't going to shut him/them out with such a young D.  It's completely unrealistic.

    As for Brees on MNF last year?  If NE goes up 17-3 on that drive before the Brady pick, who knows, maybe that game turns into more of a shootout than the second half collapse it became for NE.

    No excuses for 2009's D as they just weren't good enough, but you have to be somewhat irrational to not like what you are seeing here this year.

    Look at  Baltimore struggling with Houston last week.  How good is Philly's D? Or NY Giants' D?

    Or the Bears?  Or Pitt's? 

    Are there really any nasty Ds in this league or just some very good ones?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from gianfran. Show gianfran's posts

    Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?

    In Response to Re: 32nd ranked Pass D? Who Cares?:
    [QUOTE]Teams can pass for 700 yards a game on us for all I care so long as the Pats dont give up touchdowns I couldnt care less. We dont let teams score, they might pass all over us but they cant score on us and thats all the matters. We lead the league in take aways
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]


    Good point.   Whoever developed the method of ranking Ds obviously has a limited understanding of the game and the BB type of strategy.  Other than winning, a lot of the stat and pro bowl stuff is pretty subjective.  To win and to win the Super Bowl is based on every part of the game, including those things that stats don't measure.  
     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

Share