5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    When Brady says we need a better four minute offense, I don't think he's talking purely about the play calling. I think he's talking about players and execution. Given that Kirwin goes on to say that the Pats are determined to improve all areas of the running game, I think it's reasonable to assume that he and Brady were talking about execution and not just play calling.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    He clearly agrees we need to run more often, especially with a lead (sorry Pezz) and when the defense is dropping everybody into coverage.  I imagine the Pat's wanting to improve the run game has a lot to do with McDaniel's return and his bringing Larsen and a slew of tightends into camp with him. 

    I told you all McDaniel would revive the run game and was told it was unnecessary and that the run game was a relic of the past... so much for that.  The last time we had a good run game (2007/2008) he was at the helm calling plays so it's no surprise.

    The four minute offense is the set offense, the go out and do something in the first quarter offense, the "don't go three and out with 3 straight passes" offense.  I applaud Brady for pointing out what McDaniel's has obviously decided was a point of emphasis, this includes situational football which is another thing learned by Weis. We'll see a much better team in crunch time and pressure situations to be sure.

    Vindication... accept it or choke on it.

    Again Prolate I commend you for showing up, Pezz, Mighty and booob will be no shows to this party.  After such a public undressing by Brady I can understand why.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In response to "Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.":
    When Brady says we need a better four minute offense, I don't think he's talking purely about the play calling. I think he's talking about players and execution. Given that Kirwin goes on to say that the Pats are determined to improve all areas of the running game, I think it's reasonable to assume that he and Brady were talking about execution and not just play calling. Posted by prolate0spheroid
    Execution is a derivative of good play calling. Play calling is a result of offensive coordination. I spoke with Kirwan about this live, he agreed that the inability of the offense to stay on the field had a negative impact on the defense, especially late in the game. We had a lengthy talk about the WW 27 yard pass on 2nd down, while trying to "execute" a 4 min offense. He liked Tommy's thrw but conceded it was a very questionable "PLAY CALL".... But shoot ..we had to pass a lot with the lead because It was a " low possession game" as Pezz says??? Kirwan also said we are one of the most talented offensive teams in the league, as most sane NFL fans would agree. But maybe your right. BB not only built a terrible defense that gave up an astronomical 18 ppg in the last 2 SBs but he also built an offense that is short on talent, despite the 34 ppg scored in the reg seasons You think you know how to build team better then BB???.......who do I sound like? Lol.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    In response to "Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.": But maybe your right. BB not only built a terrible defense that gave up an astronomical 18 ppg in the last 2 SBs but he also built an offense that is short on talent, despite the 34 ppg scored in the reg seasons You think you know how to build team better then BB???.......who do I sound like? Lol.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I love it when the truth sets you free, booob and his disciples have to admit what is patently obvious to you, me, Tommy and Josh McDaniel. That the Pats, while a beast in the regular season need to toughen up and start the power running game up again to make waves in the playoff's. Finesse is for fantasy geeks and Colt's fans...

    If it didn't come from the golden boy's own lips we might never see this day. Thank you Tommy for setting us straight.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    I think one should take every public comment from a professional veteran with a significant grain of salt (especially one who's mentality is in lock step with the most anti media coach in the game). 

    They say:  sure we need to run the ball more.  (inside: that's why we went out and got all of that outside speed added to our receiver corps).  (that's why we got rid of our most reliable running back - whether he was good or not). 

    Because the patriots have tom brady and loads of talent around him, they will be just fine on the offensive side of the ball.  They may try to run more, but if its not working, someone's going to correctly ask, why do we have all of these studs to catch the ball, a stud throwing it, but we are not operating that part of the game. 

    The question for the pats is do they have the defense to stop teams when they need to and get turnovers which were a hallmark of their successful years.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    I think one should take every public comment from a professional veteran with a significant grain of salt (especially one who's mentality is in lock step with the most anti media coach in the game).  They say:  sure we need to run the ball more.  (inside: that's why we went out and got all of that outside speed added to our receiver corps).  (that's why we got rid of our most reliable running back - whether he was good or not).  Because the patriots have tom brady and loads of talent around him, they will be just fine on the offensive side of the ball.  They may try to run more, but if its not working, someone's going to correctly ask, why do we have all of these studs to catch the ball, a stud throwing it, but we are not operating that part of the game.  The question for the pats is do they have the defense to stop teams when they need to and get turnovers which were a hallmark of their successful years.
    Posted by UD6


    Belichick teams have always said exactly what they mean or nothing at all, I'll assume your saying this simply because you were in agreement with these others on another thread and this is you back tracking.  

    Since Bill Parcell's coached this team through when Belichick arrived in 2000 they have run an "Erhardt-Perkins" offensive system and a "Fairbanks_Bullough" 3/4 defense, referred to commonly as a 2 gap 3/4 or a "bend don't break" defensive system.

    These systems compliment each other and have followed the majority of coaches who sprang from the Ray Perkins/Bill Parcell's coaching tree wherever they have gone.

    If you don't understand the philosophical reasoning behind "run to set up the pass" that the system dictates and skip ahead in the playbook to the wide open spread attack, randomly calling plays (like serving the dinner without having set the table) you have the offense that we've seen over the last few years.  Positive in the regular season but ineffectual in the playoff's.

    As a Colt's fan you know full well that when the Pat's were beating Manning handily there was a heavy dose of Antowain Smith beating the defense down to a nub and controlling the clock to keep a lethal Peyton Manning off the field... as a Colt's fan this must have been very frustrating for you, to the point where years later you still find yourself on a Patriot's board discussing football.

    I don't begrudge you for this, but please don't sit here and tell us how we beat you, the majority of the enlightened here already know, there's only a few "know-it-alls" who can't see the forest for the trees.

    Cheers

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    In response to "Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.": Give it a rest dude. We get it, you think Brady isn't getting it done, your a real maverick hey. Your going against the grain, a rebel in your own mind. You don't need to bring it up on every thread.
    Posted by TrueChamp



    +1
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    Considering he's been average in the postseason, unable to lead this team to a SB,
    Posted by CliffordWasHere


    He's only led the team to a Super Bowl 5 times in 10 tries. Your stupidity is astounding.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : He certainly wasn't last year underthrowing almost every deep ball he threw.
    Posted by CliffordWasHere


    Right dum bass. That must have been why he threw for the second most yards in NFL history. The underthrows were key.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    Pipe down, hotshot. That was a genuine reaction.  I have a right to my opinion.
    Posted by CliffordWasHere


    He doesn't need to pipe down. He's just expressing an opinion. Troll.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    The day Brady proves to me that he gets it in the postseason, is the day I praise his play.
    Posted by CliffordWasHere



    Oh just shaddap junior. You bashed him all season long when he was putting up one of the top 10 seasons of all-time. You're a troll who constantly bashes the greatest player in team history and thinks he knows how to coach better than BB.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    Thanks for posting the Kirwan piece. 

    Athough Brady's arm strength has always been an attribute, he throws a very good deep ball but not a great one.  Where Brady excels is in his decision making, his quick release, his accuracy and in the medium passing game where he is able to use those strengths to get the ball precisely where it needs to be in a hurry. 

    Speaking only for myself and as a fan it is encouraging to read about an interest in more emphasis on the ground game.  I happen to believe we need it.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    Booob will ignore this or any post (facts) that refutes the garbage that spills from his mouth...  that's fine I have him on "ignore," so everyday is a sunny day anyhow. Brady is correct, I have all the faith in the world in him when it comes to the two minute offense, it's the set offense (4 minute) that needs work. Running is the solution, McDaniel's the Doctor.  I also like the reports I'm hearing that they are focused on practicing situational football, a hallmark of Weis offense. Becoming unstoppable on third downs will be a joy to see once again. This is the first season since 07' where I feel completely overconfident in my favorite football team.
    Posted by wozzy



    For somebody you are ignoring you mention me a lot in a thread I haven't even commented in wozzydoo. Be that as it may.....

    What the hell are you talking about? Brady said they need to run when the D is playing the pass. It doesn't get more basic than that. Problem was the running wasn't all that effective at 21st per carry in the league. Below average.

    Of course he wants the running to improve so you don't have to pass so much into a D that's sitting on that.

    As the article immediately states after Brady's comments... "New England is determined to improve in all run areas over last year". Running more isn't improvement. Running better is.

    This is pretty much what BB has said. They will run more if it's working. The 3.6 yac their backs were getting in the SB wasn't anything BB was confident in. Can't blame him for that.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    Speaking only for myself and as a fan it is encouraging to read about an interest in more emphasis on the ground game.  I happen to believe we need it.
    Posted by ATJ


    The gist of the articles points on the ground game is not necessarily that it needs to be done more, but rather that it needs to be improved so it can be used more.

    There is no point in running more if it iasn't working.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : The gist of the articles points on the ground game is not necessarily that it needs to be done more, but rather that it needs to be improved so it can be used more. There is no point in running more if it iasn't working.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Either way more production out of the ground game appears to be a goal.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    2. Can New England overcome the loss of RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis and build a better running game?
    The Patriots were the 20th-ranked run team in the NFL last year. Green-Ellis accounted for 11 of the 13 rushing touchdowns by backs. Tom Brady was quick to point out to me that the Pats need a better four-minute offense, and need to take the run when the defense is playing the pass. New England is determined to improve in all run areas over last year, when the Patriots passed on 54 percent of first downs. At practice it was clear Stevan Ridleywill be the workhorse on early downs and was much better catching the ball than advertised. Look for Ridley to carry the ball 12-14 times a game and be close to a 700-yard rusher. Shane Vereen and Danny Woodhead will handle the third-down situations and both looked solid in the draw and screen game, but both still need some work in the physical aspect of the pass-protection game.

    Whoa Mr.  Woodinpants, just got on.
    What the heck are you so excited about?
    Brady speaks the truth, they do need to be able to run more when it's called for.  Is this some kind of revelation?  Gee I hope he doesn't get benched for giving away secrets.
    Could your "excitement" be any more far fetched?  He is talking about improving the running aspect to make the 4 minute drill more effective.  duh!
    It obviously wasn't, thus the 54 % passing on first down.
    What did you expect then to do when BJGE ran for -2 on the dropped pass possession.  Run more? 
    When it's not effective, you adjust to what is.
    In no way does this expunge any thing.  It has to be more effective and they have to have the ability to use it more.  How much 4 minute O did you see in the SB?  3 possessions?  That means 5 possessions weren't.  Wasn't one of their scores, scored in 2 1/2 minutes?  That's a lot closer to a 2 minute O than a 4.   Gee, why didn't they take their time? 
    You cant't take your time when the D is not giving it to you.  Plain & simple.

    If they had asked why they weren't using the 4 minute more and what was making it fail, now that would be something?
    But, I sincerely doubt TB would answer such a question because he'd have to throw someone under the bus.  He's probably say; "we all have to execute better".  Duh again!
    When has Tom ever said anything other than "there's things we have to improve on"  Ever?   He11, he even said it after they whooped up on KC 45-3.
    You're reading into his statement, doesn't seem to be accurate and just what you want to see.  He said nothing more than they had to execute better..
    We gotta do what the defense gives us!  LOL  Brilliant.....
    I'll have to write that one down so I don't forget it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    Wozzy -IMO, Belichick is frequently and intentionally elusive in his comments, I am not suggesting that he's not honest, but I do mean that he never tells the whole story, and I believe Brady sees things the same way.  

    Just as you and others here have noted there's a desire for run pass balance, unless the run game is so ineffective that creating balance inhibits the offense's ability to move the ball and score. 

    Remember, I am also of the opinion that the defense is not strong enough to earn the team a win when the offense falters. 

    So while Brady may "say all the right things" and while there is general truth to his comments, that doesn't necessarily mean that it applies effectively to the New England patriots success given their personnel make up. 

    As for colts vs. pats, I'd tell you the healthy run was both a combination of a better patriots run game then as opposed to now to go along with a defense that was never built to beat the run.  Further, the excellence of the pats defense was able to inhibit Manning's effectiveness much like NYG's defense limited Brady's. 

    You may not like my theory but I see the current pats as almost a carbon copy of the old colts.  Awesome offense, limited defense.  I believe that lack of balance has more to do with the pats lack of ultimate success than lack of run pass balance you so dearly covet. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    Attached is an example of Brady talking up the run game in 2011. 

    http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-04/sports/30243131_1_benjarvus-green-ellis-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady-staff-patriots

    The point being Brady talked up the run game last year when it was not a focus just as he is now.  Certainly teams would like to be able to run as much as they throw in order to keep defenses off balance, but typically teams play to the weaknesses of their opponents and to the looks they give pre snap.  If the D shows 8 in the box, is a QB of Brady's caliber really going to try to run it behind the Guard? 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    Wozzy -IMO, Belichick is frequently and intentionally elusive in his comments, I am not suggesting that he's not honest, but I do mean that he never tells the whole story, and I believe Brady sees things the same way.   Just as you and others here have noted there's a desire for run pass balance, unless the run game is so ineffective that creating balance inhibits the offense's ability to move the ball and score.  Remember, I am also of the opinion that the defense is not strong enough to earn the team a win when the offense falters.  So while Brady may "say all the right things" and while there is general truth to his comments, that doesn't necessarily mean that it applies effectively to the New England patriots success given their personnel make up.  As for colts vs. pats, I'd tell you the healthy run was both a combination of a better patriots run game then as opposed to now to go along with a defense that was never built to beat the run.  Further, the excellence of the pats defense was able to inhibit Manning's effectiveness much like NYG's defense limited Brady's.  You may not like my theory but I see the current pats as almost a carbon copy of the old colts.  Awesome offense, limited defense.  I believe that lack of balance has more to do with the pats lack of ultimate success than lack of run pass balance you so dearly covet. 
    Posted by UD6



    Oh, Oh.  It happened!Meanwhile, in Hell


    Only Thing I would argue is that Colts never had a 31st ranked D that was incapable of a 6 and out or a turn-over in the big games.























     
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    Brady saying we need to take what the defense gives tells me that we have not been taking what the defense gives us.....which is exactly the problem many of us have had with OB. We are a one trick offense. You think it is by neccessity, prolate think it is lack of talent, I think it is lazy offensive play calling. Falling back on the best QB to ever play the game, using him as a crutch. No variety, no screens,no rb receptions, no effort to develop a 3rd receiver, 3rd TE or a ground game. These are things I think most of us agree on, we just disagree as to the reasononing. Don't worry though McD is doing things as we speak to ensure our offense can effectively run a 4 minute offense and hopefully score more then 14 and 17 points in the next SB.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In response to "Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.":
    Attached is an example of Brady talking up the run game in 2011.  http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-04/sports/30243131_1_benjarvus-green-ellis-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady-staff-patriots The point being Brady talked up the run game last year when it was not a focus just as he is now.  Certainly teams would like to be able to run as much as they throw in order to keep defenses off balance, but typically teams play to the weaknesses of their opponents and to the looks they give pre snap.  If the D shows 8 in the box, is a QB of Brady's caliber really going to try to run it behind the Guard?  Posted by UD6
    We threw more times then we ever had before. Brady broke Marinos passing record. We don't see 8 in the box.....unless our OC would trot Benny out on 1s down when we are trying to ice the game, bring in a FB off the street to lead block and run right at Logan Mankins with a torn acl who was tryin to block 330# chris canty. With a stale obvious telegraphed play call like that we might see 8 in the box.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : Oh, Oh.  It happened! Only Thing I would argue is that Colts never had a 31st ranked D that was incapable of a 6 and out or a turn-over in the big games.  
    Posted by pezz4pats

    LOL - ok - so first you have explain how hell froze over. 

    As for the 31st ranking - yes we had that but not with the same amount of success as the pats, although by most standards, the numbers indicated our defense was not very good. 

    As for the turnovers, I agree with you.  I looked up some of your team's stats over the years and when the pats won SB's, turnovers were prevalent in the playoffs, but not since. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    In response to "Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.": We threw more times then we ever had before. Brady broke Marinos passing record. We don't see 8 in the box.....unless our OC would trot Benny out on 1s down when we are trying to ice the game, bring in a FB off the street to lead block and run right at Logan Mankins with a torn acl who was tryin to block 330# chris canty. With a stale obvious telegraphed play call like that we might see 8 in the box.
    Posted by TrueChamp

    Brady broke Marino's attempts record, yet as I showed, he talked up the run game.  your fans are getting excited because he's doing the same thing now.  Words don't always fit deeds.  

    With all of the receiver talent the pats now have with their additions and the losss of their best running back, do you believe the pats are going to run more? 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    Further, you all have bemoaned your secondary's ability to always be solid yet you readily admit Belichick is one of the best DC's.  So if Belichick can't make them effective, who can? 

    And if no one else can, then with one of the best QB's in the business, two of the best TE's, the best slot, and now a highly effective wideout, why in the world would a team focus on a run game when no team can stop the pass?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    Brady saying we need to take what the defense gives tells me that we have not been taking what the defense gives us.....which is exactly the problem many of us have had with OB. We are a one trick offense. You think it is by neccessity, prolate think it is lack of talent, I think it is lazy offensive play calling. Falling back on the best QB to ever play the game, using him as a crutch. No variety, no screens,no rb receptions, no effort to develop a 3rd receiver, 3rd TE or a ground game. These are things I think most of us agree on, we just disagree as to the reasononing. Don't worry though McD is doing things as we speak to ensure our offense can effectively run a 4 minute offense and hopefully score more then 14 and 17 points in the next SB.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    Is a 56/44 1st down pass/run ratio that out of line?  Seems like everyone was clamouring for that ratio as a rule.  They weren't that far off.
    Is the play calling a result of it being ineffective or necessity?
    I don't think O'B is stupid or one dimensional.  I think he played to his strength.
    The RB talent was Ok but injuries and dropsies were also detrimental.
    You want them to score more than 17pts, fine.  They are going to need more than 8 possessions per game to do that.  They've averaged way below the league in that aspect for the past 2 years. 
    Personally, I could care less if they only score 7 pts. as long as the D only allows 6. :-)
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    Booob, Pezz and Prolate in lock step with a fan from another team, a Colt's fan none the less... isn't that just typical.

    I also love the attempt at reinterpretation of everything the article states to fit their needs.

    Welcome onboard guys, you can thank Prolate for being smart enough to rearrange the article so you guys can cut and paste it into an argument, only 5 days too late, but welcome...
     
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