A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to ATJ's comment:
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    We all have an agenda both in this forum and in life and Babe is no different from the rest of us.  This thread is an example of Babe pursuing his. 

    [/QUOTE]

    indeed. that being said, how do you grade the draft choices made?

    [/QUOTE]

    rkarp, I've been pretty consistent with this perspective whenever I post on the topic:  Absent context (how the team compares to other franchises with similar draft positions in the same drafts) that's an impossible question to answer.  And, yes, I am talking grading on a curve.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We all have an agenda both in this forum and in life and Babe is no different from the rest of us.  This thread is an example of Babe pursuing his. 

    [/QUOTE]

    indeed. that being said, how do you grade the draft choices made?

    [/QUOTE]

    rkarp, I've been pretty consistent with this perspective whenever I post on the topic:  Absent context (how the team compares to other franchises with similar draft positions in the same drafts) that's an impossible question to answer.  And, yes, I am talking grading on a curve.

    [/QUOTE]

    understood...perhaps you would comment on how the players drafted grade out in your opinion, similar to how Babe graded out each player? this isnt taking into account who was available, how the draft choices compare to other franchises, etc.

    simply put....how have the drafted players performed?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I am a very objective and honest fan.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Wrong. You're a liar and a nutjob.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:
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    Hahaha priceless. Nothing like having a biased agenda.

    The funniest part is that you don't even try to hide it anymore.

    Frankly I am surprised you you even bothered to give ANY pick anything more than a C since we know you think the entire roster except Brady and "kinda" Gronk is mediocre at best.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're lying. I never said the entire roster is mediocre except for "kinda" Gronk and Brady. I've said the roster overall is mediocre outside of Brady. Obviously there are both above average players and below average players.

    Nothing biased about it. That's a straight-up honest assessment of the picks. Refute one if you like.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What would be the point in refuting or discussing any of it with you. I already know your agenda or opinions about it. Even if I have different or varying opinions on the grades of many of those picks it doesn't matter to discuss with you since you would ignore any discussion and always fall back to your opinion of  it being ONLY Brady.

    I have also no idea what your premise is for making your determination in your grades. We almost certainly have VERY different criteria and its importance in determining the grade. If we were not on the same page from that fundamental starting point then ofcourse we would never be close to seeing eye to eye on any of it.

    [/QUOTE]


    The criteria is simple. It's results based. You're a homer and I'm objective. Of course our criteria is vastly different.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We all have an agenda both in this forum and in life and Babe is no different from the rest of us.  This thread is an example of Babe pursuing his. 

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree. My agenda is called truth.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    Lucky babe didn't list the free agent signings of the team over the last five years, it's much much worse than our draft selections. I don't think there is a team in the league that has wasted as much money and time over free agent bust, after bust. You could of blind folded a kid at Best Buy and had him throw darts at random names on a wall and he would of had more success. That's the truth.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    The same old tired thread, rehashed, again and again...

    So once again, I ask the ultimate question, how can someone be an overwhelming success and also be a failure?

    They can't, that's your answer.

    If you say Tom Brady...

    Belichick drafted Brady, end of story, nothing to see here.

    Is there a website somewhere that shows the percentage of draft picks that don't make it?  

    If so I'd bet that BB is right among the top tier of GM's in terms of draft success.  Considering the average NFL career lasts 3 years than I have to believe the success rate is below, at or around 30%, I've said before the draft is like a hitter in baseball, if you hit 300 you're a hall of famer.

    Dumb thread, dumb premise... yeah BB the GM stinks, that's why we have Tom Brady, Stevan Ridley, Gronk, Solder, Mankins, Vollmer, Chandler Jones, Mayo, McCourty, Spikes and on and on...

    You are what your record says you are, everything else is just entitled fans flapping their gums.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    a player who plays out his rookie contract then is let go or signs somewhere else isn't a Bust necessarily. I think in that situation you have to consider their body of work while here and forget about them leaving or not being signed. 

    Instead of labeling each player with an individual grade, because that seems very subjective, I w just creat 2 columns. Those who have contributed and those who haven't. Seems like the degree to which they contribute based on draft position is a tenuous topic. If a udfa out contributes a 2nd round pick, after further review, I don't know if its that big a deal As long as the team wins. However, if this becomes the norm, late rounders and UDFAs sticking over early round picks, does anyone see a problem here with that? Does it affect the roster quality over time? There is a reason some guys are drafted and some aren't. Yes, you might find gems later, but generally speaking they are not as talented as early round picks. compounding the matter, the more early round picks bust and we need to fill their spots with udfa and late rounders, I can see this being a point of contention as well. This was what I mean by roster quality....if you consistently miss early and are forced to fill late, it will impact roster quality...not saying this happened to the pats consistency, but it has happened. 

    Contributors...maroney, mayo, mccourty, Gronk, jones, Hightower, vollmer, solder, Chung, spikes, cunningham, twilson. Ridley, Vereen

    non-contributors...Ras, butler, Wheatley, brace, Jackson, crable, oconnell, bequette

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Hahaha priceless. Nothing like having a biased agenda.

    The funniest part is that you don't even try to hide it anymore.

    Frankly I am surprised you you even bothered to give ANY pick anything more than a C since we know you think the entire roster except Brady and "kinda" Gronk is mediocre at best.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're lying. I never said the entire roster is mediocre except for "kinda" Gronk and Brady. I've said the roster overall is mediocre outside of Brady. Obviously there are both above average players and below average players.

    Nothing biased about it. That's a straight-up honest assessment of the picks. Refute one if you like.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What would be the point in refuting or discussing any of it with you. I already know your agenda or opinions about it. Even if I have different or varying opinions on the grades of many of those picks it doesn't matter to discuss with you since you would ignore any discussion and always fall back to your opinion of  it being ONLY Brady.

    I have also no idea what your premise is for making your determination in your grades. We almost certainly have VERY different criteria and its importance in determining the grade. If we were not on the same page from that fundamental starting point then ofcourse we would never be close to seeing eye to eye on any of it.

    [/QUOTE]


    The criteria is simple. It's results based. You're a homer and I'm objective. Of course our criteria is vastly different.

    [/QUOTE]

    lol "simple"? 

    What defines results in YOUR opinion and YOUR world?

    What is simple to see however is that one of us quickly reverts to name calling while staying vague and the other does not.

    Pure comedy.

    So what do you define as results? Least pentalties called against a player? Years in the league? Number of pro bowl appearances? Total games started? Total games played? Is it position specific? etc etc. There are literally a ton of ways to evaluate a player. Simple criteria, could you possible be more vague?

    ...and you complain about BB NOT being specific. Uunbelievable!

    lol

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I cant see why anyone can refute Babe on this OP?

    This OP is not who is or isnt the best team in the past decade, nor is it what players were available to the PAts after they chose...nor is it would another GM have done otherwise.

    The OP is clear and simple...the picks listed for the most part have been terrible. You can quibble with a grade, but who can sit here, look at this list, and say the draft choices made have been stellar? Surely, there have been UDFA's that have helped this team. Trades, wire pick ups all have contributed to this teams success. But is not what the OP is stating...look at the draft record, and discuss if this is a good draft record or not?

    I would upgrade McCourty to a B+ and I would settle in with Spikes at B-, only because he is a sub player not on the field enough. IN the run game, I have Spikes as a B+

    [/QUOTE]

    Team building doesn't happen ONLY in the 1st 3 rounds. The OP's premise is argueable and is in direct contrast to the the GM's recoed for his tenure as he has consitently put the most competitive 53 man rosters on the field year after year. What is not argueable is his record those 53 men rosters has produced during his tenure.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.


    Kind of difficult to compare BB's general managing to others since he became general manager for the Pats....when almost every team has fired their GM's.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    a player who plays out his rookie contract then is let go or signs somewhere else isn't a Bust necessarily. I think in that situation you have to consider their body of work while here and forget about them leaving or not being signed. 

    Instead of labeling each player with an individual grade, because that seems very subjective, I w just creat 2 columns. Those who have contributed and those who haven't. Seems like the degree to which they contribute based on draft position is a tenuous topic. If a udfa out contributes a 2nd round pick, after further review, I don't know if its that big a deal As long as the team wins. However, if this becomes the norm, late rounders and UDFAs sticking over early round picks, does anyone see a problem here with that? Does it affect the roster quality over time? There is a reason some guys are drafted and some aren't. Yes, you might find gems later, but generally speaking they are not as talented as early round picks. compounding the matter, the more early round picks bust and we need to fill their spots with udfa and late rounders, I can see this being a point of contention as well. This was what I mean by roster quality....if you consistently miss early and are forced to fill late, it will impact roster quality...not saying this happened to the pats consistency, but it has happened. 

    Contributors...maroney, mayo, mccourty, Gronk, jones, Hightower, vollmer, solder, Chung, spikes, cunningham, twilson. Ridley, Vereen

    non-contributors...Ras, butler, Wheatley, brace, Jackson, crable, oconnell, bequette

    [/QUOTE]


    +1

    This is exactly why there are sooooo many low draft picks and UDFA's on this team.

    All these Busts create voids.  Voids have to be filled.  They spent money on the Busts. There is a cap. That leaves little money to fill the void, that you already spent the $$$$ on.

    Since the cheap FA and or value pick, (replacement) probably isn't good enough, the process starts again.

    Repeat, as needed.

    All these "value", TRADING DOWN, signings are not panning out.  All these inexplicable reaches aren't either, nor are the gambles on always injured players, to try and save a buck.... The Ochos, Elisses, Hanesworths, that come here to fill a void and die.  Really?

    Neglecting other positions because you spend all your resources on the back field, isn't working.  Now it's the O????? 

    How many players to replace Samuels? You just needed one of them to work.

    Just one out of, what, 15?

    It took Talib, six years later.  WOW!

    Value is not value when you have to replace the same void, 15 times over.

    It cost MORE money, in the long run, and probably championships.

    No one is perfect, and all teams miss, but there is a definite trend here.

      One that is obviously not working.

    When a team win comes down to  just one or two plays, you might want to have that one or two players than can make that play.

    A great coach and QB can only get you so far. 

    A few more diamonds and less CZ's would be nice, especially when those 15 CZ's are exceeding the cost of that one diamond.

      Just sayin.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to Paul_K's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here's my cold hard look at the Patriots' regular seasons 2006-2013.  They had 92 victories and 25 losses up to today.  Sometimes you are what your record says you are. 

    [/QUOTE]

         This is the same old tired, Homer argument. Surround BB and future HOF QB with at least mediocre talent, and the team is going to win double digit games each season. But, the play-offs is where the rubber meets the road...and where the flaws of a team get exposed. BB's poor drafts and poor personnel decisions are the main reason why the franchise hasn't won a championship since the 2004 season. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    This kind of 20/20 hindsight on what is essentially a crapshoot gets a bit tiring after a while. BB gets great value from lower rounds, trades and free agent pick-ups, which are completely excluded from this analysis.

    Nevertheless, I thought I would look at all the draft picks made by the rest of NFL right after the Patriots' picks through the same timeframe. Then I assigned them the same opinionated grades that Babe gave our picks. Feel free to argue the merits of my grading system. I won't push back.

    Here are the results:


    2006

    22nd: Manny Lawson, OLB, 49ers   C

    37th: Jimmy Williams, CB, Falcons  F

    2007

    25th: Jon Beason, OLB, Panthers  F

    2008

    11th: Leodis McKelvin, CB, Bills  D

    63rd: Terrell Thomas, CB, Giants  C

    79th: Antwaun Molden, CB, Texans  F

    95th: Mario Manningham, WR, Giants  D (massive fall-off in performance)

    2009

    35th: James Laurinaitis, ILB, Rams  C-

    42nd: Jairius Byrd, CB, Bills  D

    43rd: Everette Brown, DE, Panthers  F

    59th: Sherrord Martin, FS, Panthers  D

    84th: Mike Wallace, WR, Steelers  C- (fall-off in performance)

    2010

    28th: Jared Odrick, DT, Dolphins  C+

    43rd: Sergio Kindle, OLB, Ravens  F

    54th: Carlos Dunlap, DE, Bengals  C

    63rd: Pat Angerer, ILB, Colts  F

    91st: Navorro Bowman, OLB, 49ers  C+

    2011

    18th: Corey Liuget, DE, Chargers  D (for a high pick, been a disappointment)

    34th: Aaron Williams, DB, Bills  D

    57th: Mikel Leshoure, RB, Lions  D-

    75th: John Moffitt, G, Seahawks  F

    76th: Will Rackley, G, Jaguars  F

    2012

    22nd: Brandon Weeden, QB, Browns  D

    26th: Whitney Mercilus, LB, Texans  C

    49th: Kendall Reyes, DE, Chargers  C

    91st: Lamar Holmes, T, Falcons  F

    Net insight: Very few draft picks make it as NFL starters, fewer still have any significant impact, and a very rare few are impact players. By the way, you can do this by team, by year, by draft position or by player position, and the results are consistently the same.

    So let's let the teams do their best at picking college players they think are going to survive in the NFL, and we as fans should appreciate those teams that can put a winning product in front of us year after year. All other measures are subjective.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Net insight: Very few draft picks make it as NFL starters, fewer still have any significant impact, and a very rare few are impact players. By the way, you can do this by team, by year, by draft position or by player position, and the results are consistently the same.

    So let's let the teams do their best at picking college players they think are going to survive in the NFL, and we as fans should appreciate those teams that can put a winning product in front of us year after year. All other measures are subjective.

    [/QUOTE]

         Oh pleaaaseee!!! Stop making excuses for BB by saying that, "but everybody else fails too!". We're talking Patriots here! Don't we Pats' feel that the our franchise is a cut above? Good NFL are obtained via the draft...not the stork.  

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Net insight: Very few draft picks make it as NFL starters, fewer still have any significant impact, and a very rare few are impact players. By the way, you can do this by team, by year, by draft position or by player position, and the results are consistently the same.

    So let's let the teams do their best at picking college players they think are going to survive in the NFL, and we as fans should appreciate those teams that can put a winning product in front of us year after year. All other measures are subjective.

    [/QUOTE]

         Oh pleaaaseee!!! Stop making excuses for BB by saying that, "but everybody else fails too!". We're talking Patriots here! Don't we Pats' feel that the our franchise is a cut above? Good NFL are obtained via the draft...not the stork.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That's my point, Tex. The bell curve around draft selections is narrow, not broad. It's hard to be consistent at draft picks. The bodies have not matured fully, the pace is an order of magnitude faster, and the physicality of the game is at a different level.

    I understand your frustration when the slot machine doesn't deliver each time you pull the handle or push the button but you aren't going to get the consistent results you are looking for. This holds for EVERY team.

    In the era of free agency, you have to manage the full talent mix, not just draft picks. The financial ceiling is well defined, as is the floor. Today's GM's have to manage within a much broader context than those of the past.

    Anyway, you are of course entitled to your opinion on this. I am simply sharing mine. It does not mean I believe the stork delivered the awesome team record that the Patriots have over the last 12-13 years. THAT has been consistent. I would rather have that than a standard deviation better drafting record (which I think is impossible anyway unless you get very very lucky).

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Lucky babe didn't list the free agent signings of the team over the last five years, it's much much worse than our draft selections. I don't think there is a team in the league that has wasted as much money and time over free agent bust, after bust. You could of blind folded a kid at Best Buy and had him throw darts at random names on a wall and he would of had more success. That's the truth.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes. Crumpler, Waters, Anderson, Carter, Lloyd, Tommy Kelly, etc, have all been terrible additions in recent years.

    Maybe our FA moves from 2010-2012 were few and far between because the drafting was so good in that time?

    Also, if an UDFA, the plethora BB has developed here over time is superior to a FA signing, who cares? What is the difference?  The UDFA outplayed the cheap FA signee and the UDFA is so dirt cheap, it's a lot better than racing out and gambling on a bust like MIKE WALLACE at 13 million per.  Can you imagine if BB did that? LOL

    You morons act like 12 year olds, literally switching out your argument when convenient and leaving out important FACTS with regards to teambuilding.  

    Hey Cupcake!  Why don;t you or one of your wittle loser miserable buddies come forward and state your premise as to which team, elite team, picking 27-32 every year, has had a better yield of talent from 2010-2012.

    Why don't you do that? Hmm? Why do you and your ilk run from such a simple request?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    LIAR  The Pats don't pick 25-32.  And even if they did, they certainly had the picks to move up.

    2001 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia   2002 21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado [29] 2003 13 Ty Warren DT Texas A&M [30] 2004 21 Vince Wilfork DT Miami (FL) [31] 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia   2005 32 Logan Mankins OG Fresno State   2006 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota   2007 24 Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL) [32] 2008 10 Jerod Mayo LB Tennessee [33] 2009 No first-round draft pick [34] 2010 27 Devin McCourty CB Rutgers [35] 2011 17 Nate Solder OT Colorado   2012 21 Chandler Jones DE Syracuse   25 Dont'a Hightower DE Alabama   2013 No first-round draft pick
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

         Oh pleaaaseee!!! Stop making excuses for BB by saying that, "but everybody else fails too!". We're talking Patriots here! Don't we Pats' feel that the our franchise is a cut above? Good NFL are obtained via the draft...not the stork.  

    [/QUOTE]

    That's my point, Tex. The bell curve around draft selections is narrow, not broad. It's hard to be consistent at draft picks. The bodies have not matured fully, the pace is an order of magnitude faster, and the physicality of the game is at a different level.

    RESPONSE: More excuses for BB's lousy frafts since 2006.

    I understand your frustration when the slot machine doesn't deliver each time you pull the handle or push the button but you aren't going to get the consistent results you are looking for. This holds for EVERY team.

    RESPONSE: Stop the excuses, pleeaasseee!!

    In the era of free agency, you have to manage the full talent mix, not just draft picks. The financial ceiling is well defined, as is the floor. Today's GM's have to manage within a much broader context than those of the past.

    RESPONSE: Now that you've mentioned it, how has BB done with free agents lately, and with personnel decision, in general?

    Anyway, you are of course entitled to your opinion on this. I am simply sharing mine. It does not mean I believe the stork delivered the awesome team record that the Patriots have over the last 12-13 years. THAT has been consistent. I would rather have that than a standard deviation better drafting record (which I think is impossible anyway unless you get very very lucky).

    RESPONSE: It's to the point where BB is not paying attention to his scouting staff, as he has apparently decided to take over that duty himself. His decision to focus on individual schools in which he has a good relationship with coaches is bad for the franchise. Let me paraphrase what ex-Giants GM George Young once told Bill Parcells, "Bill, let me do the picks...because you are a coach, and I am the GM...and coaches have a tendency to fall in love with players, which clouds their judgment."

    [/QUOTE]


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

         Oh pleaaaseee!!! Stop making excuses for BB by saying that, "but everybody else fails too!". We're talking Patriots here! Don't we Pats' feel that the our franchise is a cut above? Good NFL are obtained via the draft...not the stork.  

    [/QUOTE]

    That's my point, Tex. The bell curve around draft selections is narrow, not broad. It's hard to be consistent at draft picks. The bodies have not matured fully, the pace is an order of magnitude faster, and the physicality of the game is at a different level.

    RESPONSE: More excuses for BB's lousy frafts since 2006.

    I understand your frustration when the slot machine doesn't deliver each time you pull the handle or push the button but you aren't going to get the consistent results you are looking for. This holds for EVERY team.

    RESPONSE: Stop the excuses, pleeaasseee!!

    In the era of free agency, you have to manage the full talent mix, not just draft picks. The financial ceiling is well defined, as is the floor. Today's GM's have to manage within a much broader context than those of the past.

    RESPONSE: Now that you've mentioned it, how has BB done with free agents lately, and with personnel decision, in general?

    Anyway, you are of course entitled to your opinion on this. I am simply sharing mine. It does not mean I believe the stork delivered the awesome team record that the Patriots have over the last 12-13 years. THAT has been consistent. I would rather have that than a standard deviation better drafting record (which I think is impossible anyway unless you get very very lucky).

    RESPONSE: It's to the point where BB is not paying attention to his scouting staff, as he has apparently decided to take over that duty himself. His decision to focus on individual schools in which he has a good relationship with coaches is bad for the franchise. Let me paraphrase what ex-Giants GM George Young once told Bill Parcells, "Bill, let me do the picks...because you are a coach, and I am the GM...and coaches have a tendency to fall in love with players, which clouds their judgment."

    [/QUOTE]

    Let's just agree to disagree. I respect your opinion on a number of other issues but perhaps it will be hard to bridge the gap on this one.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Let's just agree to disagree. I respect your opinion on a number of other issues but perhaps it will be hard to bridge the gap on this one.

    [/QUOTE]

         K. No hard feelings, my friend.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to thehub's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I disagree. Perhaps I will have time this weekend to show some examples of who was available and then we can see if BB made some bad pics. Again, everyone misses. This thread could be good if we had more data. Example - instead of Maroney we pick J Adia (colts). Good debate there. 

    I recall Jon Beason being passed by one year - forget who we picked. Again, I need time to research. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe continues not state a premise which team is better, list the picks sn those teams and support his premise.

    [/QUOTE]


    This thread has nothing to do with which team is better. It's a grading of BB Megatool.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Agree with Rusty that this kind of thing makes more sense when it is compared with the results of other so-called top teams. In a vaccum it's easy to forget that every single GM is going to flub some picks. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Not necessarily.

    If one agrees that a perfectly average NFL team would have average players at every position and go 8-8, then it only makes sense that since the only influx of new players brought into the league are through the draft and UDFAs, then draft performance can be graded based on the result of the picks results relative to what an average player would be.

    Generally speaking, the first three rounds of the draft are where you're looking for your "starters" and the rest of the draft and UDFAs fill the rest of the roster. Of course there are occasional deviations from that ideal.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Most of the grades are pretty accurate, but a few are unfair or premature. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The grades are subject to change if the player were to change. I'm simply grading based on the players worth to the NEPs at this juncture. That is why I did not include the most recent draft.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    If you get a few decent years out of a player, that has to be taken into account. I'd say Chung and Meriweather are Cs. Maroney is either a C- or a D. All were disappointments but not utter failures. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The grades are based not only on the actual worth of the player, but also their worth relative to the resource expended to acquire them. Obviously a 1st round pick must be greater than a 3rd round pick to call it a good pick.

    A "C" is an average NFL starter. No way any guy that BB cuts at the end of the rookie contract without even an offer to resign is an average NFL player. That leaves Chung, Meriweather and Maroney out of the "C" level.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A cold hard look at 7 years off BB's drafting.

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Now we're into the premature picks. If McCourty sticks as a safety, that's a B pick at least when all is said and done. If you draft someone for one position and they end up thriving in another that still counts dude.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    IF the grades change I will of course reflect that if I do this again.

     

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