A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

         Exhibit "A", of course, was the SB 42 loss to the Giants. Exhibit "B" is the win by the Dallas Cowboys tonight over the previously unbeaten Saints, 24-17.

         Great QBs like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Philip Rivers can be stopped, if the opposing defense can pressure them. Dallas OLB/DEs Demarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer were all over Drew Brees all night...and the Cowboys only needed to rush 4 guys to bring the heat.  

         Please, my friends...write letters to the North Pole, asking Santa Claus to bring the Patriots an outside speed rusher who can get to opposing QBs.   
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    Yeah, I was feeling pretty stupid a while back for buying into the "recipe" to beat Tom Brady; pressure him.  Then I thought, no kidding Sherlock...  That's the recipe for beating any QB.  Any QB will look mediocre when they are running for their lives or having to get rid of the ball too quick.

    It would be nice if we could do that too.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
    Yeah, I was feeling pretty stupid a while back for buying into the "recipe" to beat Tom Brady; pressure him.  Then I thought, no kidding Sherlock...  That's the recipe for beating any QB.  Any QB will look mediocre when they are running for their lives or having to get rid of the ball too quick. It would be nice if we could do that too.  
    Posted by carawaydj


         Amen, brother. All this "whats' wrong with the Patriots" talk would cease if they had somebody who could put consistent heat on the opposing QB. 

         With all due respect to Peyton Manning, Indy's ability to pressure the QB with Freeney and Mathis is what makes the Colts an elite team.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brad34. Show Brad34's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
         Exhibit "A", of course, was the SB 42 loss to the Giants. Exhibit "B" is the win by the Dallas Cowboys tonight over the previously unbeaten Saints, 24-17.      Great QBs like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Philip Rivers can be stopped, if the opposing defense can pressure them. Dallas OLB/DEs Demarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer were all over Drew Brees all night...and the Cowboys only needed to rush 4 guys to bring the heat.        Please, my friends...write letters to the North Pole, asking Santa Claus to bring the Patriots an outside speed rusher who can get to opposing QBs.   
    Posted by TexasPat3


    I agree - the question is why doesn't BB who is without question a defensive genuis seem to agree? The Pass rush has been bad for the pats for a few years but BB doesn't appear to have done anything about it - why?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    Unfortunately guys like Ware and Jared Allen don't come around often.  Hopefully they can do something with what they have or the Pass defense is doomed.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PSRyan. Show PSRyan's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    This is a spot on analysis of the Patriot defensive issues of the past couple years. Belichick has never been a huge proponent of the pass rush as a singular skill; and before the "Manning Rule" of the five yard holding/contact rules being amended he was justified in that thinking. Since those rules the numbers of "coverage sacks" has dropped league-wide precipitously. 

    The new rules have greatly increased the need for usually not just one, but two great pass rushers. It's no wonder that a mediocre defense like the Colts has success - it is simply because of their pass rushers. 

    I hope BB sees that the rules change must force a necessary adjustment to the vaunted Patriots "value system" in two ways - increased value of the pass rusher and the cover corner.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rodimus77. Show Rodimus77's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
         Exhibit "A", of course, was the SB 42 loss to the Giants. Exhibit "B" is the win by the Dallas Cowboys tonight over the previously unbeaten Saints, 24-17.      Great QBs like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Philip Rivers can be stopped, if the opposing defense can pressure them. Dallas OLB/DEs Demarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer were all over Drew Brees all night...and the Cowboys only needed to rush 4 guys to bring the heat.        Please, my friends...write letters to the North Pole, asking Santa Claus to bring the Patriots an outside speed rusher who can get to opposing QBs.   
    Posted by TexasPat3


    I was thinking the same, as I watched that game last night.  I was also wondering why the Pats could not generate even half of that effort.  The sack/forced fumble on Brees by Ware was just absolutely "BE-A-UTIFUL". This is a top priority once the off season hits.  Either Crable is just going to "miraculously" become that or maybe even McKenzie, but the Pats are in GREAT need of both a pass rushing DE and an OLB.  The DE taking up space approach scheme is just not working.  Either its the '10 draft or free agency (Peppers maybe) but I can't watch another season in which the Pats just simply can't generate any type of pass rush on opposing QB's.  This is pathetic. 

    Here is to the 2010 Pats finally landing a couple of pass rushing DE's and OLB's.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hoochiemgg. Show hoochiemgg's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    Not to agree with you all but I too was watching the closing moments of the game last night and Dallas just kept it coming. I've asked this one before but I'll try again anyway. Remember when in years past the Pats used to stunt and shift at the line? They moved around alot especially against Manning in order to cause confusion. I remember one time they all just stood while he went through his gyrations. Why don't we do this anymore? It seems that the good pass rushing teams show alot more looks at the line than we do now. What am I missing?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    AMEN to all of the above.  I also think going back to the 4-3 would help, big hosses in the middle, couple of speed rushers on the sides, and fast linebackers.  The model is definetly broken, what Manning has done is less about how brilliant he is and more about rule changes tilting things his way.  Watch how right after a PI penalty nets some good yards he goes hurry up and attacks.  He knows the D is now nervous, and less aggressive, and doesn't give them a chance to think about it much. We need to beat him into the ground.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MaritimePatsFan. Show MaritimePatsFan's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    A good pass rush makes all the difference. I'll take it a step further and say stopping the pass rush makes all the difference. The Pats have problems, we all see it. We have no pass rush and our OL has to be constantly helped by TEs and RBs with pass protection.

    The big thing I have noticed about this team this year when compared to the past 8 or so years, is what positions on the field are the most talented. Our DL and OL were always talked about as being some of the tops in the league for 6 or 7 years. DL has been hit with a few injuries and trading Seymour has really set the 09 Pats back even if it all works out by 2011. The OL has been injured and seems to have aged drastically in the past couple of seasons. Maybe it has something to do with our division opponents getting much better up front in the past couple of seasons.

    Either way the team seems to have been getting better at skill positions WRs and DBs, while forgetting to keep the Hogs on both sides on the up and up. I mean I want first rounders across the board on both lines and then do what you will everywhere else. I read somewhere above we need a shutdown corner. Good luck finding one. There might be 2 in the league right now, but a good DL can make a good corner into a great corner. A good DL can turn a good LB into a great one, regardless if they are a OLB or MLB. It doesn't necessarily work the other way around.

    Same thing on offense. It starts with OL. QB cannot throw if he has no time. RB cannot run if he is getting tackled in backfield. The offense is all about OL.

    To wrap up my rant we need upgrades on both lines. We need to get bigger, younger and faster on both lines. Wilfork is gone after the year. Franchise and then move him getting picks in return. We need to replace Seymour with those picks.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
         Exhibit "A", of course, was the SB 42 loss to the Giants. Exhibit "B" is the win by the Dallas Cowboys tonight over the previously unbeaten Saints, 24-17.      Great QBs like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Philip Rivers can be stopped, if the opposing defense can pressure them. Dallas OLB/DEs Demarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer were all over Drew Brees all night...and the Cowboys only needed to rush 4 guys to bring the heat.        Please, my friends...write letters to the North Pole, asking Santa Claus to bring the Patriots an outside speed rusher who can get to opposing QBs.   
    Posted by TexasPat3


    certainly, it is ONE piece of the puzzle.

    1) Decent pass rush as part of overall defense
    2) Decent Red Zone Offense AND Defense
    3) Good Takeaway/Giveaway ratio
    4) Good coaching/play calling
    5) Not just good players, but Playmakers
    6) A little luck along the way

    The Cowboys succeeded where the Patriots failed.  They put pressure on Brees, they successfully ran the ball (and controlled the clock - giving Brees FEWER chances to score), they actually scored....
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    Well I think you need to give a shout out to the Colts O line if the topic is pass rush. They give Manning the time to run a pass first offense like we used to be able to do. Our problem is we just don't have the receivers running around like Manning. 
    As far as our pass rush, did BB know going in to the season this was going to happen and the game plan was to tough it out? One of the biggest stories before the season got started was did the Pats lose too much on defense and we all made intelligent arguments to say we'd be alright and we aren't. I see this is a rebuild year and we're still going to take the division (hopefully) and use the picks and freed up cash to put two incredible lines on the field next year including pass rushers. We'll also have a defense that'll have a year of experience playing together instead of all kids with little leadership.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    Didn't BB and management trade their best pass rusher this year?  Richard Seymour was moved to plan for the future.  Vrabel was shipped out as well.  Did they realize they were sacrificing the present?  Of course not, so it was a bad move for this year at least. The Pats statistically are one of the worst pass rushing team and near the bottom in sacks.  This has made Miami's and Carolina's QB's look like seasoned veterans.  Give any QB all day and your secondary will get beat.  Defense wins championships, as we learned when the best offense in history got beat 2 years ago and only scored 14 points.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    BTW, the return for giving up Seymour is 2 years away, not 1 year as mentioned above.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
    Well I think you need to give a shout out to the Colts O line if the topic is pass rush. They give Manning the time to run a pass first offense like we used to be able to do. Our problem is we just don't have the receivers running around like Manning.  As far as our pass rush, did BB know going in to the season this was going to happen and the game plan was to tough it out? One of the biggest stories before the season got started was did the Pats lose too much on defense and we all made intelligent arguments to say we'd be alright and we aren't. I see this is a rebuild year and we're still going to take the division (hopefully) and use the picks and freed up cash to put two incredible lines on the field next year including pass rushers. We'll also have a defense that'll have a year of experience playing together instead of all kids with little leadership.
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    Colts O-line has done outstanding job of protecting Manning. Plus, Manning is pretty good at reading the defense and getting rid of ball quickly. Even Manning and Brees are prone to making mistakes if u can get pressure to them (or brady for that matter)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    Maybe we can get Suh to smoke some Marijuana so his draft value will drop and the Pats can pick him up.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    I've been saying this all year, the problem with the Patriots isn't that they miss the Old men --Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Seymour-- it's all about their lack of pass-rush.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
    In Response to A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference : I agree - the question is why doesn't BB who is without question a defensive genuis seem to agree? The Pass rush has been bad for the pats for a few years but BB doesn't appear to have done anything about it - why?
    Posted by Brad34


         BB realizes that he needs a pass-rush. He was been hoping that guys like Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable, and Vince Redd would eventually emerge. Unfortunately, they haven't. All have the size and speed that BB looks for in an OLB. 

         BB expected to sign Jason Taylor in the preseason, and was probably surprised when Taylor chose Miami. He then traded a 3rd rounder and a 5th rounder to acquire pass-rusher Derrick Burgess.

         Free agent signee Adalius Thomas, and Rosevelt Colvin before him, were paid big money to bring the heat. But, the dividends from those signing have been mediocre at best.   
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
    This is a spot on analysis of the Patriot defensive issues of the past couple years. Belichick has never been a huge proponent of the pass rush as a singular skill; and before the "Manning Rule" of the five yard holding/contact rules being amended he was justified in that thinking. Since those rules the numbers of "coverage sacks" has dropped league-wide precipitously.  The new rules have greatly increased the need for usually not just one, but two great pass rushers. It's no wonder that a mediocre defense like the Colts has success - it is simply because of their pass rushers.  I hope BB sees that the rules change must force a necessary adjustment to the vaunted Patriots "value system" in two ways - increased value of the pass rusher and the cover corner.
    Posted by PSRyan


         BB understands this...and has tried to bring in edge rushers who can bring the heat. He has had Willie McGinest, Rosevelt Colvin and Mike Vrabel to get to the QB. Unfortunately, he has been unable to replace these players thus far.

         But, he has tried. He spent big money on Adalius Thomas, and has tried to develop guys like Pierre Woods, Tully Banta-Cain, Vince Redd, and Shawn Crable. BB wanted to bring aboard Jason Taylor in the off-season. When that didn't work out, he traded 3rd and 5th round draft choices to acquire Derrick Burgess.

         As for cover CBs, the Pats have tried in vain to replace Asante Samuel. They  drafted both Terrence Wheatley (2nd round) and Jonathan Wilhite (4th round) in 2008, and Darius Butler in 2009. In addition, he has signed at least two free agent CBs every off-season. for at least the past two years. 

         The CBs that the Pats' currently have aren't that bad. But, their being exposed because the Pats can't pressure opposing QBs.   
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
    In Response to A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference : I was thinking the same, as I watched that game last night.  I was also wondering why the Pats could not generate even half of that effort.  The sack/forced fumble on Brees by Ware was just absolutely "BE-A-UTIFUL". This is a top priority once the off season hits.  Either Crable is just going to "miraculously" become that or maybe even McKenzie, but the Pats are in GREAT need of both a pass rushing DE and an OLB.  The DE taking up space approach scheme is just not working.  Either its the '10 draft or free agency (Peppers maybe) but I can't watch another season in which the Pats just simply can't generate any type of pass rush on opposing QB's.  This is pathetic.  Here is to the 2010 Pats finally landing a couple of pass rushing DE's and OLB's.
    Posted by Rodimus77


         Rod...I don't know if Peppers, at age 30, is the answer. But, my guess is that he'll end up in a Patriots' uniform next year. 

         Look for the Pats to use their 2011 #1 pick acquired from Oakland in the Seymour trade on a pass-rusher.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
    Not to agree with you all but I too was watching the closing moments of the game last night and Dallas just kept it coming. I've asked this one before but I'll try again anyway. Remember when in years past the Pats used to stunt and shift at the line? They moved around alot especially against Manning in order to cause confusion. I remember one time they all just stood while he went through his gyrations. Why don't we do this anymore? It seems that the good pass rushing teams show alot more looks at the line than we do now. What am I missing?
    Posted by hoochiemgg


         Hooch...you're not missing anything. Its' what the Patriots are missing. They don't have quick, athletic guys who can get after the QB.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
    I've been saying this all year, the problem with the Patriots isn't that they miss the Old men --Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Seymour-- it's all about their lack of pass-rush.
    Posted by 49Patriots


    if it were only so simple. I don't think the lack of pass rush solely explains the poor Red Zone D or O.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference:
    In Response to Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference : if it were only so simple. I don't think the lack of pass rush solely explains the poor Red Zone D or O.
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii


         Opposing teams wouldn't be making so many trips to the redzone if the Pats' had a consistent pass rush.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    Due to Bill B's comments about the difficulty finding 3-4 players, i will bet we start to switch back to the 4-3.  Today we played alot of those fronts.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: A Good Pass Rush Makes All the Difference

    Obviously the Pats can't acquire anybody.

    BUT

    I like their versatility now with a lot of guys coming back from injuries and/or seeing playing time.

    D-linemen:
    Wilfork and Warren for running situations
    Green, Wright, and Pryor for passing situations

    Linebackers:
    Mayo and Guyton as mainstays
    Seau for running situations and as a joker (roaming blitzer)
    Banta-Cain, Thomas, and Burgess as rush linebackers

    You also have four versatile safeties.  Merriweather can cover man-to-man on receivers and play deep.  McGowan can cover tight ends and play the run.  Chung can cover and play zone.  Sanders is a former starter who is a  known quantity (you know he won't blow assignments).

    I like the potential of this defense, if not always the performance.  I'm hoping to see them start to come together and do more as the season comes to a close.  I think the personnel gives you a lot of formation possibilities.
     
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