A Little Draft Perspective

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    A Little Draft Perspective

    So now that the draft is over the usual suspects are complaining about how BB can't draft and that the other elite teams are leaving us in the dust.  Personally I think this is simply "the grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome.  I think it's time to put a few things in perspective.  Consider Kevin Colbert and Ozzie Newsome.  They are two of the more respected personnel men in the league and they are a useful comparison because they have been in their positions about as long as BB (Colbert since 2000 and Newsome since 2002).  Obviously there are other excellent personnel men in the NFL today, but a lot of them haven't been around as long making the comparison harder.  Now there are a lot of ways to evaluate drafting and I'm not saying that this is the end all be all, but I think we can all agree that if you draft a guy that makes the AP (which is the one recognized by the NFL) 1st All-Pro team while he is on your team then that was a pretty good draft pick as you got a guy that was at some point considered to be the best at his position in the entire NFL.  I'm not going to count ST guys.

    Here are the All-Pros that BB has drafted since he has been with NE: Brady, Wilfork, Mankins, Mayo, Gronk, Light, Seymour, Samuel

    Here are the All-Pros that Colbert has drafted since he has been GM in Pitt: Polamalu, Harrison (technically a UDFA, but we'll count those), Pouncey

    Here are the All-Pros that Newsome has drafted since he has been GM in Baltimore: Reed, Ngata, Suggs, Thomas

    Now there are a lot of ways to evaluate GMs and I am not saying this is the only way, but it sure looks like Belichick knows what he's doing to me.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    *yawn 

    It didnt take long to point out the bias.

    You are missing Joey Porter(02),

    Jerome Bettis(02),

    James Farrior(04)

    Jason Gildon(02)

     

    I didnt even make it to B_more because Im sure you left some out there too. You couldnt make your point without displaying all the facts???  Go join Rusty in the Corner.

     

    And I aint even one of the BB draft bashers. I thought this draft was good, but why Lie??

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    How does BB stack up if you subtract the luckiest pick in NFL history and count number of all-pro years vs years in charge?

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    *yawn 

    It didnt take long to point out the bias.

    You are missing Joey Porter(02),

    Jerome Bettis(02),

    James Farrior(04)

    Jason Gildon(02)

     

    I didnt even make it to B_more because Im sure you left some out there too. You couldnt make your point without displaying all the facts???  Go join Rusty in the Corner.

     

    And I aint even one of the BB draft bashers. I thought this draft was good, but why Lie??




    None of those guys were drafted by Colbert.  Nice try.

    Farrior was drafted by the Jets in 1997.  Bettis was drafted in 1993.  Gildon was drafted in 1994.  Porter was drafted in 1999.  Colbert was made GM in 2000.  Should we give BB credit for Law's All-Pro nods?

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    *yawn 

    It didnt take long to point out the bias.

    You are missing Joey Porter(02),

    Jerome Bettis(02),

    James Farrior(04)

    Jason Gildon(02)

     

    I didnt even make it to B_more because Im sure you left some out there too. You couldnt make your point without displaying all the facts???  Go join Rusty in the Corner.

     

    And I aint even one of the BB draft bashers. I thought this draft was good, but why Lie??

     




     

    Jason Gildon was an all-pro? Wow I forgot how good their linebackers were in the early 2000's with Kendrell Bell, Gildon, Porter and Farrior.

    Didn't stop the Pats from taking it to them in the playoffs though!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    How does BB stack up if you subtract the luckiest pick in NFL history and count number of all-pro years vs years in charge?

     



    Colbert has been in charge as long as BB.  Newsome has been in charge for 2 years less.  Even if you subtract Brady he still has more and more per year.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    I see a huge lack of reading comprehension in this thread.  Read more carefully people.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I see a huge lack of reading comprehension in this thread.  Read more carefully people.




    No offense but I couldn't care less to respond to your original post. I don't feel the need to defend BB and his drafts as much as some others do as his work speaks for itself.

    Its comical how offended some of you get when someone else voices their displeasure with something he does.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:



    No offense but I couldn't care less to respond to your original post. I don't feel the need to defend BB and his drafts as much as some others do as his work speaks for itself.

     

    Its comical how offended some of you get when someone else voices their displeasure with something he does.



    I wasn't referring to you.  Maybe you should take your own advice?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    You're absolutely right. I should when it comes to Rusty. He's really the only one that grinds on my nerves and causes those types of responses.

    I actually enjoy reading most of your posts, was nothing personal.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:

    You're absolutely right. I should when it comes to Rusty. He's really the only one that grinds on my nerves and causes those types of responses.

    I actually enjoy reading most of your posts, was nothing personal.




    It's no problem.  I'm just a little antsy waiting for football to come back.  I love the Sox, but nothing is quite like football for me.  I just feel like every year after the draft there are people complaining about the same things as if all the other teams are so much better than us.  They are entitled to their opinion, but it doesn't mean I won't try and change their minds!

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    *yawn 

    It didnt take long to point out the bias.

    You are missing Joey Porter(02),

    Jerome Bettis(02),

    James Farrior(04)

    Jason Gildon(02)

     

    I didnt even make it to B_more because Im sure you left some out there too. You couldnt make your point without displaying all the facts???  Go join Rusty in the Corner.

     

    And I aint even one of the BB draft bashers. I thought this draft was good, but why Lie??

     

     




    None of those guys were drafted by Colbert.  Nice try.

    Farrior was drafted by the Jets in 1997.  Bettis was drafted in 1993.  Gildon was drafted in 1994.  Porter was drafted in 1999.  Colbert was made GM in 2000.  Should we give BB credit for Law's All-Pro nods?

     




    Sorry, I just figured  you were going by the franchise in recent years and didnt know your cut off or when Colbert started drafting. 

    Like I said, didnt mean to ruin your point. I have no problem with BB's draft, that low number for the Steelers prompted my research. I still dont see how that list proves or disproves anything though

    Wins may be a better barometer  and they've won and gone to SBs like us, sooooo

    All Pros could differ on different teams depending on where they go, the coaching, the scheme,etc

    The only reason we were able to steal a couple Titles away from both the Steelers and Ravens is them trotting out guys like K.Stewart and Kyle Boller respectively but defensively , BB is still trying to catch those 2 franchises. So like Babe said, Take Brady out, and what u got left?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    How does BB stack up if you subtract the luckiest pick in NFL history and count number of all-pro years vs years in charge?

     



    Colbert has been in charge as long as BB.  Newsome has been in charge for 2 years less.  Even if you subtract Brady he still has more and more per year.

     




    Really? Reed is a 5 time all-pro, Ngata 2, Suggs and Thomas one each. That's 9.

    Without Brady the Pats' names you mention total 9 all-pro years.

    Looks like Newsome beats BB on a per year basis to me.

    And what about Le'Ron McClain? Shouldn't you have him in there for Ozzie?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    I still dont see how that list proves or disproves anything though

     



    It doesn't. There's a lot more to the equation than how many all-pros you have picked.

    Interesting to look into though.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:



    Really? Reed is a 5 time all-pro, Ngata 2, Suggs and Thomas one each. That's 9.

     

    Without Brady the Pats' names you mention total 9 all-pro years.

    Looks like Newsome beats BB on a per year basis to me.

    And what about Le'Ron McClain? Shouldn't you have him in there for Ozzie?



    My mistake on McClain.  I missed him.  In addition I thought you were referring to the number of guys not the number of guys/years in which case BB still had more.  If you do guys/years then you get 10 for the Ravens as you say and 11 for the Pats including Brady and 9 without him.  Of course one could argue that Adalius Thomas who was also a 6th round pick was just as "lucky as Brady" making both teams 9.  So sure then Newsome has slightly higher average.  That being said one could argue that the number of different players is also important to look at.  The point I was making here was not that BB is superior to Newsome, but rather that Newsome who is considered by many to be one of the top personnel men in the league has a very similar resume to BB in this regard.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    Look this was just one metric that was easy to understand, but if you look at anything like the number of starters or statistical measures of players' value (such as the CarAV on pro football reference) or all-pros or pro bowlers or the overall success of the team the Patriots under BB rank very highly.  You don't have to believe BB is the best in the NFL, but I don't see any evidence that he is as bad as some here would have you think.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Look this was just one metric that was easy to understand, but if you look at anything like the number of starters or statistical measures of players' value (such as the CarAV on pro football reference) or all-pros or pro bowlers or the overall success of the team the Patriots under BB rank very highly.  You don't have to believe BB is the best in the NFL, but I don't see any evidence that he is as bad as some here would have you think.




    I look at one thing. Lombardi trophys. Then I look at the details.

    I never said BB was a bad drafter. He's a bit above average. The bottom line just looks to be better because of Brady. That all ends soon.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Look this was just one metric that was easy to understand, but if you look at anything like the number of starters or statistical measures of players' value (such as the CarAV on pro football reference) or all-pros or pro bowlers or the overall success of the team the Patriots under BB rank very highly.  You don't have to believe BB is the best in the NFL, but I don't see any evidence that he is as bad as some here would have you think.




    Well, glad we got that straightened out. Ozzie has done more by your paramater than BB.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    Well, glad we got that straightened out. Ozzie has done more by your paramater than BB.

     



    Actually it was yours.  I was looking at the number of players.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    I never said BB was a bad drafter. He's a bit above average.



    That is not consistent with your comments after this draft.  In addition I think a bit above average is still a disservice.  There are only a handful of guys in the NFL that are in the same conversation imo although perhaps you think that means above average.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A Little Draft Perspective

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     


    Well, glad we got that straightened out. Ozzie has done more by your paramater than BB.

     

     



    Actually it was yours.  I was looking at the number of players.

     




    Yeah. But scrutinizing one hit wonders is a pretty futile exercise. Do you really think a one time all-pro like Light is a fair comparable measure to a 5 time all-pro like Reed?

    So I guess I'm refuting your premise too. Mission accomplished.

    But then you did suppose that this measurement was possibly not the most conclusive anyway, didn't you?

     

     
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