A look at Rookies Production !!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from auchhhhhhhhhhh. Show auchhhhhhhhhhh's posts

    A look at Rookies Production !!!

    Chandler Jones   33 tackles   6 sacks   3 fum

    Dont'a Hightower   25 tackles   2 sacks   0 fum     1 TD

    Tavon Wilson      28 tackles   0 sacks   0 fum     3 INT

    Alfonzo Dennard     11 tackles   0 sacks   0 fum     2 INT

    Brandon Bolden     43 Carr    234yds   5.4 Yds/Att    2TD   2 catches 11yds

     

    Those are a lot of plays !!! great production so far... Another good draft class.

    All of them have to improve a lot, but they have had a great first half of the season.

    How important would it be for this defense to have a DE Rookie with 10+ sacks and a Rookie LB who can actually do it all...

    good times ahead !!!

     

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    Good class for sure. They had 4 rookies start on defense today. This was one of Belichicks best drafts. Not only do these guys start but they contribute a lot. Jones, Hightower , and even Dennard will be pro bowlers within a couple of years if they continue this trend.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    I agree it might be BB's best draft when all is said and done. I think this defense is so much better with Hightower at LB and Ninkovich at end.

    Jones is already a force. I feel like he disrupts stuff even when he doesn't get there. I saw some one break down the last play of the Jets where his jump caused Sanchez to hold onto the ball an extra beat. Long enough for Cunningham and Ninkovich to get to him.

    I put a less less stock in the interceptions though, Wilson still looks lost out there at times, and Dennard picks were both of terribly thrown passes.

    Bolden was looking like a player, but when he comes back are there enough touches for him. I mean their are only so many offensive plays in a game...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    Thanks for putting together auchhhhh....

    Hard to argue with that production. Overall, a very good defensive draft for us. 

    I like bolden , but we need to find a way to get vereen more touches ..he is coming on strong 

    Wilson is going to be good is he can improve his coverage skills. This is the weak part of his game much like Chung. 

    I thinks jones ends up winning DROY. He ends the year with 70 tackles, 12 sacks and 4 ff's..

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I put a less less stock in the interceptions though, Wilson still looks lost out there at times, and Dennard picks were both of terribly thrown passes.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah but at least we know they can catch.  An underrated quality in DBs.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    Dennard, Jones, Hightower and Bolden have been class. Wilson needs some time before I can give him a passable grade, he doesn't read coverages all too well and he gots turned around too easily on a deep double move, but he can man up and make plays better than Chung. 

     

    The Pats, moving forward, should let Chung walk in the offseason if they can't bring him back on their terms and play Tavon at SS with McCourty at FS. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    I think it has been pretty well established the PAts are about league average when drafting over the years. Some years will be better than others.

    Seems to me most of the criticism has been about defensive backs drafted, starting out promising, and regressing.  

    I also think a lot of conversation devoted to should the PAts reach for need, rather than have the board come to them.

    It also obvious that a rookie class production is solely reliant on playing time. The fact that the PAts are playing 4-5 rookies on defense, speaks to injury, and talent that is here, also drafted by BB. One can name call as minions and buffoons, but if you must slobber over Dennard and Wilson, how do you gloss over Ras, Chung, Wilhite, Wheaton etc, etc?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    A potential great player at the top of the draft for us in Chandler Jones. I expect Hightower to give us an all around talent with size. I think these two are clear indications of what happens when you take the talent that is there or decide you need to move up and play for THIS year.

    You didn't see any foolish trade backs into a range where you hope one of the twenty players you target is still available and then end up with Ron Brace. They used an aggressive stratedgy and I hope it works. No team has had more draft selections than us over the last five years.

    I wish they were as aggressive in free agency - that's a rather large part of team building that we have severly dropped the ball on over the last five years. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't make a higher priced guy work out on the defensive side of the ball with a coach like Bill Belichick yelling in his ear. Even Adalius Thomas was more than servicable for a few years here at first - I find it hard to believe he couldn't of made one of the corners available this off season workout here.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    The rooks look real good, well except Wilson. I never like it when a rook gets beat twice on the same move for TD's in back to back games. Wilson just seems out of positions and bits to often in double moves. He needs a lot of work, and not learning from your mistakes esp game losing mistakes is a red flag in my book. Actually considering their experience at the position I was more impressed with the limited oppurtunities Ebner got. I think he could make a play to be a starter next year over Wilson at this rate.

    If the rooks keep up this play and continue to get better then we'll be a heavy favorite heading into the playoffs

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from threejak. Show threejak's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to auchhhhhhhhhhh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Chandler Jones   33 tackles   6 sacks   3 fum

    Dont'a Hightower   25 tackles   2 sacks   0 fum     1 TD

    Tavon Wilson      28 tackles   0 sacks   0 fum     3 INT

    Alfonzo Dennard     11 tackles   0 sacks   0 fum     2 INT

    Brandon Bolden     43 Carr    234yds   5.4 Yds/Att    2TD   2 catches 11yds

     

    Those are a lot of plays !!! great production so far... Another good draft class.

    All of them have to improve a lot, but they have had a great first half of the season.

    How important would it be for this defense to have a DE Rookie with 10+ sacks and a Rookie LB who can actually do it all...

    good times ahead !!!

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yup, great first half stats for Newbies.  Dennard looks to be a comer too.  But think how much better things will be when a few more guys get healthy and they really start to gel...Know it's a little off-topic but truly amazed at just HOW OFTEN Vince is blatantly held and still manages to either make the play or be disruptive.

    He sets a tremendous example for the young guns and gotta believe both he and Mayo have thier backs in ALL things both on and off the field.  We're very fortunate to have more than a few high character guys and this too makes it an easier learning curve for the new arrivals.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think it has been pretty well established the PAts are about league average when drafting over the years. Some years will be better than others.

    Seems to me most of the criticism has been about defensive backs drafted, starting out promising, and regressing.  

    I also think a lot of conversation devoted to should the PAts reach for need, rather than have the board come to them.

    It also obvious that a rookie class production is solely reliant on playing time. The fact that the PAts are playing 4-5 rookies on defense, speaks to injury, and talent that is here, also drafted by BB. One can name call as minions and buffoons, but if you must slobber over Dennard and Wilson, how do you gloss over Ras, Chung, Wilhite, Wheaton etc, etc?

    [/QUOTE]


    You think his 2010, 2011 and 2012 drafts are "average"? This is "well established"? By whom?

    Tony Mazz, Felger, Gasper, the turds at ESPN who have a bone to pick with BB? These people?

    List the names, both drafted and undrafted in these last 3 drafts in and out of the lockout, please.

    Then, pick one team that you feel is superior and list the names from those drafts.

    Keep in mind, you're the same moron who just last year was telling us how great Sanchez was looking through Sept and into October, with you hilariously unaware that he does the same thing every year, looking good early, getting too comfortable and not adjusting as teams easily expose him thereafter.

    Watch any game film this week at ESPN, RKarp? Which analysts brilliant comments are you copping this week, as you hope to sound smart?

    bwahaha

    [/QUOTE]

    ah...I missed it, Rusty is back under another name!

    You can choose to cherry pick 3 years of drafts and of course BB will look better than everyone...but looking at BB's entire body of work, he is about league average with regards to players making the team or not. I would think that 2010 is the benchmark draft. No one is saying 2011 is not very good, as we have seen enough from Solder to assume he will be great. I am not ready to annoit same status for Ridley, and the jury is still out with Vereen, Mallette, Cannon. Clearly 09, 08 and 07, 06, 05 were poor drafts. Those 5 years have netted 4 starters and Gostkowski. Not very good at all

    I did watch game film on the Rams as I posted earlier. I believe that the call outs were that the safeties were playing poorly and could be beaten in the middle of the field (correct)and that the LB's were poor tacklers and could be run on (correct). I also mentioned that the DL would try and pressure Brady, and they would be vulnerable to screen passes and draw plays (correct).

    Lastly, I commented on how accurate Bradford looked on film (correct)

    I have been critical of the OL, and when they play well, it is only fair that I also give them compliments. Vollmer and Solder were outstanding against maybe top 3 DE's duo in all of football. I have also been most critical of Gregory, Chung and Arrington, but yesterdays solid performance was had with out them.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    PatsENg,

    That's like saying Ridley fumbled in similar situations last year so it's a red flag on his overall ability. Don't agree with making such a swift analysis like that on any rookie. 

    I agree it's not good he got into a bad spot on almost the same play like that, but don't be so dramatic about it.  It's not like there is stability back there right now.

    People can bag on Chung all day long and his average coverage abilities as a SS, but he's the captain on the back end.  We'll see how things look moving forward after the Bye, assuming his injury situation isn't serious.

    [/QUOTE]

    There's a big difference between fumbling when a D player is trying to punch it out and being out of position and biting on a double move two games in a row, both of which gave up long TD's. Sometimes a player can't help to fumble if the D hits it just right but you can help if you are taking bad angles, biting on double moves, always playing catch up because you're out of position. Wilson is making the same mistakes game in and gameout and he hasn't shown a lot of improvement with the additional playing time he's had. It reminds me of Butler in a way

    This was his MO on the draft thread though. He's a servicable S that can play in spurts but everyone questioned whether he already had hit his ceiling and how much he could improve give he was the same way in college. Out of position and biting on double moves

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    I would say that 09-11 has neeted All pro player Gronk, Very good players McCourtey, Hernandez, Vollmer. After this year we can add SOlder to very good. Maybe Spikes. I thought Mesko was close to pro bowl last year.I  would say off the top of my head that the Giants have all players with JPP and Nicks. Very good players Joseph, and Beatty. Prince after this year also looks very good.

    Advantage Pats from 09-11.

    But in its entirety, BB has been about league average with just as many misses as any other team.

    I have never plugged in cables for ESPN. (I did prior to ESPN buying us out, but that was almost 30 years ago)...I have been with ESPN fr only 3 years, and my contract is over in 4 more. Too much travel and I am early 50's.  My work these days is leading crews, although I owned (inherited) the company before ESPN bought us out.

    Proud to ay we employed dozens of full time workers, and on any given week over 100 part time, and all still today with us during the transition...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    I would also off the top of my head look at the Bengals and see Green, Johnson and Atkins as problowlers, with Dalton, Gresham, Dunlap and SMith being very good players.

    the homer in me still say advantage Pats, but pretty close imo

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    I hate to say this but Neal Page (Rusty) is spot on.  Ofcourse without the use of the word "moron" in every sentence.

    This team has drafted very well the past three years.  Were there some duds?   Ofcourse.  Nobody's going to be perfect when drafting or when picking up free agents.  Glad the Pats didn't spend a ton of money on a Mario Williams.

    They started four rookies on defense yesterday.  What team that is supposed to be a Superbowl contender does that?

    With all the injuries this team has, if they hadn't had all those picks they really would be up S**t Creek. 

    Complain about Tavon Wilson all you want and maybe he is what you think he is but he's still a rookie thrust into  a starting role  when I believe he was hurt for much of camp/preseason. (I may be wrong about that.) But hey, Pat Chung is in his fourth or fifth year?  He still can't cover, still takes bad angles and can't stay on the field.  I'll take my chances with Wilson and see if he improves.  If not, oh well.  They'll probably be drafting a safety again next year too anyway. Can't say there were many good ones in this past draft anyhow.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So, you're now coming forward and saying that Cincy and NYGs, each having some good recent drafts, are the only two teams who may have better yields over this period? lol

    Don't look now, but you're starting to back yourself into a corner, RKarp.

    So, how does that mean BB's are "average" if he;s close or in the discussion with the 2 teams you have selected as having equal or maybe superior yields?

    Now, please list the drafts for each Cincy and the NYGs from 2009-2012 so we can see the names.

    Include any UDFAs as well. Then, I will post BB's drafts so we can see the names here in print and compare.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    no, you are backing me into a corner. I said BB has been league avergae in his drafts. You decided to pick the years 2009-2011 as the only years to look at. I meanwhile have correctly pointed out that 2004-2007 and were very much poor drafts for the Pats...I still stand by my comment, BB has had as many hits as misses as the rest of the league, all the while having more draft choices than most in is years with the PAts. Not simpl the 3 years you decide to look at
     

    I am impressed with the UDFA the team is able to find, but have no information on other teams with this regards

    as you are aware, I stand by my comments that I am unimpressed with BB's free agency hauls. I thought this year in particular was very poor.

     

     
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