A look at Rookies Production !!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    Gotta love how young that D is overall.  Avg age entire D roster = 25; avg age all DBs = 24.  I'm very optimistic about the potential for this D.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    couldnt one also make the argue ment that the PAts are so young and play so many rookies (aside from injury) because the drafts from 04-08 were so bad? 3 starters from 5 years of drafts is pretty below league average...Vince, Mankins, MAyo...Slater and Gostkowski. 41 picks those 5 years. I guess you can also throw in "starters" Cassell and Merri

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    How is trading back "foolish" when the salary cap is the same level as 2009 and your decision is to up your odds in hitting on picks vs spending wildly in FA on a bloated market due to lack of quality in the market? See Mario Williams as an example in case you're too dumb to figure it out.

    You, Gasper, Mazz and Felger are morons on this topic. MORONS.

    You do realize that BB traded back into the 2010, 2011 and 2012 drafts too ADD the picks to get the Jones and Hightiowers, to be able to move, etc, right?

    Are you really this stupid, Hurlie?

    Really? You've  cornered the market on stupidity. BB traded back in 2009 to land more picks and leverage for the far superior 2010. We don't get Gronk AND Hernandez without this move.  Clay Matthews, who can't stop the run and plays on bad D be damned.  Compare Chandler Jones to Matthews.  I'll take Jones, Gronk and Hernandez, amongst a myriad of other players BB has added simply because he gave himself incredible leverage during this rebuilding on the fly.

    We don't get Gronk and Hernandez for example if BB hadn't traded back out of 2009. He knew 2010's was the deepest pool of talent since 1983. Christ, EVERYONE knew but the Jets, a team that only had a 1st and 3rd rder and wasted their 1st rder on a nickel back who trash talks and can't make a play unless by accident.  How is this that difficult to grasp?


    BB then had the base rebuild through youth (as well as anyone in 2-3 drafts finishing at 12+ wins every year), and pounced this year in the 1st rd in 2012. It was masterful. All of it. You calling it "foolish" shows how much you don't understand what he did.

    Do you think it's a strength of an adult to show ignorance and stupidity, Hurlie? You do it so well!

    My god. Just take a class at Bunker Hill Community College. Just take anything at this point!  I don't care if it's Music Appreciation. 

    NO team has had more picks in the last 3-4 drafts and no team reallly has a yield like this either. Get it?

    How many annual 12+ win teams have young talent like this on both sides of the ball?  ZERO other than NE.  You're the same moron telling us how great Colbert has been in Pitt and how great Ozzie Newsome has been in Baltimore, but is that really the case? How's Mike Wallace doing so far this year?

    bawahaah

    Clueless.

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/10/25/pittsburgh-steelers-receiver-mike-wallace-i-had-a-bad-game-too-many-drops/1658443/



    Listen, I understand this is your baby after reading Patriot's management secrets vol1 and 2, but you fail to realize all this winning we do is from Brady and Belichick the coach...not guys like Butler, Chung, Brace, Dowling, McCourty, Cunningham, Price, Wheatly, Love, Deadrick, Arrington. And I'm probably forgeting more, but my point is these guys I just listed are average (at best) players. We continue to win DESPITE that fact because we have a QB that covers up THOSE mistakes.

    We have had more draft picks than any team in the NFL over the last five years and we ended up with two tight ends and a right tackle that is a slipped disk away from being done. Love the tight ends and Vollmer - big props - but in my opinion with all the picks we had...it's not enough. I bet you can go over every single team in this league over the last five years and you'll find that each one of them drafted three good players in that span. Every one of them. So I think we did average in that catergory. Not "the best GM ever!!" type of catergory. Sorry.

    As for free agency, there cannot be one single team that has blown that portion of team building more than us over the last five years. I can think of a guard we signed last year and Lloyd as being hits - the rest? My God, it's almost incredible to list all these names...Shawn Springs, Leigh Bodden, Fred Taylor, Gaffney, Stallworth, Gallery, Addai, Gonzalez, Holt, Galloway, Ocho, Ellis, Haynesworth, Banta Cain, Burgess, John Lynch (really, really,), 20 different tightends and 20 different fullbacks.  This has killed us, if you don't see or believe that then you don't understand just how small the window we had with Brady. Signing guys like this is NOT team building, it's team destroying. It's making your team a QB and not much else. Sorry.

    And tell me - what is the philosophy and strategy behind leaving yourself 7 million under the cap two years in a row? How does that help? Earlier you said it was to sign free agents as the season went along (fill in for injuries and such). That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard...these guys cost pennies...you cut a player anyway when you sign some stiff sitting at home on the couch. How does not spending 14 million over the last two years help this team beat the Giants in the Super Bowl?? It doesn't dumbo.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    Rookies make mistakes, that's how they (hopefully) learn, Wilson got burned, Dennard got burned, hopefully by the post season they will be pro football players. The important point is that we have depth and that's what football and football drafts are about.  Wilson has played like a missile and is a tackle machine.

    Yeah so Ras got hurt, again, it doesn't make it a bad pick as much as an unlucky one.  The secondary was bad because the pass rush upfront was spotty, learn the concept of complimentary football or synergy, then come back to us.

    Ron Brace is the backup nose tackle on this team, someone quickly, point out the other guy on this team that can do his job?  Anyone?  My only long shot would be Cannon?

    I've never accused someone of thinking they know more about football than Belichick in all my years here, but if the shoe fits...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    There is no way I am reading that drivel.

    The simple fact is, you and RKarp just aren't very bright.  It's very obvious.  The salary cap is in place to promote parity and mismanaging that and a roster can cost teams consistency.

    You, as s Pats fan, meanwhile, HATE BB and think he has to hit on every draft pick and FA. Note how when he misses, how minimal the hit is to the team and its success/potential.

    Did you just claim BB's masterful work out of the lockout was tied to Brady taking a Safety, throwing the worst INT of his career and a high, wrong shoulder throw to a wide open Welker? Did you?

    Does he also need to control Andre Carter's bad luck with his injury in your world, too, Hurlie?

    The one, main thing that has killed us is Tom Brad's postseason play since 2007, whether it's with a loaded, veteran D or last year's postseason with his very spotty play at 20 million per.



    You can think I am not bright, but I am right.


    I never mentioned salary cap?

    I dont hate BB, I think he is the best coach in the NFL today, and perhaps in the history of the NFL. I also think in the salary cap era, he is the best manager to date.

    I only wish to point out when drafting, BB's body of work is league average. I also wish to point out his free agency decisions leave me scratching my head, as I feel so much more could have been done.

    WHile you can call me names and get banned, I am right and you are not. Fact is fact.

    You also seem to forget that while I had commended the Jets, they were coming off of 2 AFC championship games  finishing ahead of the PAts. This in no way denigrates the PAts, simply pointing out fact.

    Btw, you continuously throw MAzz and Felger in my face. I am certainly not at the stadium every day.  But I am there a lot. I have never seen either of these 2 in my 33 years of being involved with sports. To say I agree with them, you are wrong again...

    However, just so I set the rcord straight, Felger is VERY good as an entertainer, and his job is to entertain. He also knows a lot about football, whether you care to agree or not. Lets face it, Mazz is a baseball guy, and not a very good one at that.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    If his body of work as a GM is interwoven with his overall record, than he is a smashing success.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    There is no way I am reading that drivel.

    The simple fact is, you and RKarp just aren't very bright.  It's very obvious.  The salary cap is in place to promote parity and mismanaging that and a roster can cost teams consistency.

    You, as s Pats fan, meanwhile, HATE BB and think he has to hit on every draft pick and FA. Note how when he misses, how minimal the hit is to the team and its success/potential.

    Did you just claim BB's masterful work out of the lockout was tied to Brady taking a Safety, throwing the worst INT of his career and a high, wrong shoulder throw to a wide open Welker? Did you?

    Does he also need to control Andre Carter's bad luck with his injury in your world, too, Hurlie?

    The one, main thing that has killed us is Tom Brad's postseason play since 2007, whether it's with a loaded, veteran D or last year's postseason with his very spotty play at 20 million per.



    So let me get this straight, if you remove Brady from this team, you're happy with this roster? You're happy with this secondary? It hasn't got better in the five years you've been behind this "rebuilding of our young and exciting defense". In fact it's worse. I mean how many more stiffs do you need to see running around out there on defense? How much lower statistically do you need them to go? Do we need to add a lower than low level? Kind of like, but this one goes to eleven!! Type of thing. I wish I could of wet my pants over this defense like you did after we beat the Rams, unfortunately I can still see Sanchez whipping 9 passes of twenty yards or more against it.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    couldnt one also make the argue ment that the PAts are so young and play so many rookies (aside from injury) because the drafts from 04-08 were so bad? 3 starters from 5 years of drafts is pretty below league average...Vince, Mankins, MAyo...Slater and Gostkowski. 41 picks those 5 years. I guess you can also throw in "starters" Cassell and Merri




    No. No one could make that argument when you don't know what the new CBA looks like post 2010's season.

    There is no way you are in business. No way.

    How many teams do you think hit on their picks, to bring in impactful players from say Rd 5-7 every year?  Everyone else but BB? Are you this stupid?

    These are college kids and prospects. No one has a clue how borderline NFL talent might progress, so saying "41" picks doesn't really hold any water unless you tell us how many every other team averaged in picks over the same time.

    How warped do you have to be to not be enjoying what BB is doing here?



    the Pats bring in so many impactful players at rd's 5-7??

    04-Sam, Morton

    05-Claridge, Stokes, Cassell

    06-Ocallaghan, Mincey, Stevenson, Smith, Andrews

    07-Oldenberg, Rogers, Richardson, Hairston, Hillaird, Lua, Elgin

    08-Wilhite, Slater, Rudd

    I repeat...41 picks in those years. 3 starters. 2 special team players (including PK)

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    So, now you are admitting he is the best GM of the cap era after you and your buddies spend all your time here bashing his moves?

     You're going to arrogantly backpedal now? Really dude?

    As for your penchant for over-praising the Jets in recent years DURING BB's obvious strategic scale back/load up at OUR WEAKEST POINT under BB, while your overly-criticize his every move, channeling the Felger/Mazz rhetoric, YES, it was and has been very overbearing for everyone here.

    You and Hurlie are the same person. Easily led, spoiled, whiny pink hats who think you know things which is exactly how Felger and Mazz come across.

    They're full of crap.  This is what you don't get. They play the anti-BB role to get ratings. WEEI is the partner with the Pats, so they take the opposite spin.  BB gives intervews to WEEI as does Brady.

    You can't have 2 stations in one market with the same angle. See, if you had gone to college you would get this because this concept would have emerged in Journalism 101.

     



    BAck peddle?? I have always maintained BB to be the best coach and the best manager of the CAP of this era.  

    I havent praised the Jets since they lost the AFC championship game. I have always maintained that Sanchez was in the botton 3rd of QB's, but for that 3-4 year stretch, the Jets were winning, stats be damned.

    I am overbearing for everyone, yet you have been banned 7 times in the past 5 months.

    I very much understand ratings. That is why I say Felger is very good at what he does.I was not a journalism major in college. I never pretended to be.

    There you go again. I am correct pointing out BB is league average in his draft, and you turn it into me being a Jets troll, back peddling, and being a whiney pink hat...yet you never get to the fact that I am right. BB has been league average in the draft during his PAts tenure.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    If his body of work as a GM is interwoven with his overall record, than he is a smashing success.



    Wozzy, you are 100% correct. He is a smashing success. He is the best coach, cap manager and GM. The ONLY thing that counts is W/L's.

    That being said, are we allowed to have an opinion that there are some mistakes made? Or can we have an opinion that perhaps another angle could have been a better way?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    I dont think Pats fans should write off Chung yet. With McCourty staying at FS I'm hoping chung will go back to playing aggressive like he did his first couple years. Coming on blitz and attacking the line of scrimage. I really think McCourty can be a great FS, covering a lot of ground and hopefully freeing up Chung to play more loosely. I know his coverage is below average but with an improving pass rush that may help Chung a long with the rest of our DB's.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from auchhhhhhhhhhh. Show auchhhhhhhhhhh's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Gotta love how young that D is overall.  Avg age entire D roster = 25; avg age all DBs = 24.  I'm very optimistic about the potential for this D.



    THIS IS A GREAT POINT... young, gaining experience and improving...

    Good times ahead...

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from auchhhhhhhhhhh. Show auchhhhhhhhhhh's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to maine12's comment:

    I dont think Pats fans should write off Chung yet. With McCourty staying at FS I'm hoping chung will go back to playing aggressive like he did his first couple years. Coming on blitz and attacking the line of scrimage. I really think McCourty can be a great FS, covering a lot of ground and hopefully freeing up Chung to play more loosely. I know his coverage is below average but with an improving pass rush that may help Chung a long with the rest of our DB's.



    I don´t know if that will happen... is Gregory is placed in IR... yes, DMC = Safety.

    But is Gregory is healthy i would preffer to see DMC at CB and Chung and Gregory back there.

    But is a fair point...

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    I think the front seven is really coming together. They are clearly one of the best in the NFL against the run (actually they are the best in terms of yards per rushing attempt). 

    I would still like to see more consistency on the pass rush outside of Jones. I am still not sold on the DBs. Dennard has some skills, but it is early. Think of how good McCourty was a rookie. I am nervous because a lot of cornerbacks seem to get worse with time in this system.

    Wilson looks lost to me out there. He does not seem to be able to handle cover-2 which is the most basic zone coverage. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    Neal Page - do this for me - explain how NOT spending to the cap over the last two seasons has been good for this team over the last two seasons. Just do that. Then explain how you go into free agency with 30 million to spend (after saving all our pennies from the lockout) and end up with Fenene, Addai, Stallworth, Gregory, Gaffney, Gallery, Lloyd, Gonzalez, 5 fullbacks, and 15 tightends. The only guy of quality from that bunch is Lloyd and the year before was almost as bad because we spent more on worse..Haynesworth, Ocho and Ellis. How is this good team building?

    I'm a fan. I want another Super Bowl. The timing could not be better for this team right now - there aren't many great QB's  and teams are injured - you wouldn't of wanted them to add a little bit better talent to this team and spend to the cap? We are not rebuilding right now, we should be going all in.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I would also off the top of my head look at the Bengals and see Green, Johnson and Atkins as problowlers, with Dalton, Gresham, Dunlap and SMith being very good players.

    the homer in me still say advantage Pats, but pretty close imo



    My only reply to your line of thinking is to look at the relative drafting positions of all the teams you mention. Cincy has been picking at the top of the draft for decades with the occasional bottom 16 pick. The Giants typically pick top 16 one year then bottom sixteen the next. No other team picking in the bottom 5-10 for a decade has been able to do what the Pats have done in the draft.

     
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