A look at Rookies Production !!!

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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
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    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to rtuinila's comment:
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    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    I would also off the top of my head look at the Bengals and see Green, Johnson and Atkins as problowlers, with Dalton, Gresham, Dunlap and SMith being very good players.

    the homer in me still say advantage Pats, but pretty close imo

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    My only reply to your line of thinking is to look at the relative drafting positions of all the teams you mention. Cincy has been picking at the top of the draft for decades with the occasional bottom 16 pick. The Giants typically pick top 16 one year then bottom sixteen the next. No other team picking in the bottom 5-10 for a decade has been able to do what the Pats have done in the draft.

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    dude, thats the point. The Pats have 3 starters from the draft from 04-09. regardless of where they have picked, they had a 5 year span that they whiffed on 36 of 41 draft choices

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    Are you seriously this dumb?  If they had "whiffed" on 36/41 NCAA prospects, there is no way on earth they'd be in a SB last year or challenging for one with 4 rookies starting on D in 2010 or just having very young players playing.

    What did you want BB to do? Trade all the great or good players he had here just to justify wy maybe a draft pick, with more reps and more games played in, could replace all the defenders that left?

    You have the brain development of an 8 year old from Katmandu.  You seem to have this inability to understand that you don't flip a switch and produce football players from the college level to play on this team.

    Again, all I care about is him nailing the 1st rd pick, hopefully getting a player that grows into the system year after year, to some degree the 3rd rd pick, but after that your odds lessen.

    Is it really they're fault if a kid doesn't work hard enough or gets hurt or has the growth stunted so they don't wait on the player any more? No, it's not.  And one thing BB is quick to do because it HELPS the team, is to cut bait and move on.

    Your premise is a joke.  You just cherrypicked your drafts to try to weasel back into this and at the same time expected those picks to unseat all the veteran starters he had here?

     

     

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    I think what he's trying to tell you dumb dumb is that we have made it to the Super Bowl because of Brady and Belichick's coaching. Not because of guys like Cunningham and Patrick Chung. My god you really didn't get enough milk as a child, did you? 

    Have you come up with a reason why we decided to not spend to the cap the last two seasons?

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to wozzy's comment:
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    We can always play "what if" with drafts, but it certainly won't help anything.  Nobody can predict injury, to the irrational fan an injured player is a bust.  Doesn't change that most of the players on our team have been labeled a bust at some point by fans whose allegiance wavers week to week. 

    Chung is a very good player, on a defense that showcased his skill set he would have more individual acclaim, but he wouldn't necessarily be winning.  Here he puts personal recognition aside, that's the Patriot way. 

    It's the same with McCourty playing free safety; he's playing there because he's the best athlete and can erase mistakes by Dennard and Moore at corner.  When our injured safeties come back, he'll go back to corner.

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    You can't predict injury but if a player is oft injured in college then odds are he'll be oft injured in the pro's, see Ras.

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    Jones looks great, so do the rest.

    After having what looks like reaches/misses on McCourty and (moreso) Dowling, I really want to see how the DBs hold up long term. 

    The DBs they draft tend to look good for a season then taper off. 

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    I'm not an anything washer. I love the drafts BB has come up with the last few years. I do not, however, think they've done a good job drafting defensive backs. 

    Yeah. I think given how he's performed after his rookie year he was a reach. And with two seasons now on IR I think Dowling is a bust and a reach, I didn't like the selection then, and unfortunately he hasn't proven me wrong. Injured players stay injured. 

    You would take McCourty in that draft for a first round selection if they had it to do over?

    I'm pretty sure no one in the the Patriots' organization would.

     

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
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    I am pretty sure you're wrong.  My god are you arrogant.  If you asked BB if he would draft McCourty again, you think he'd say "absolutely not"?   Dude, get over yourself already.

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    Yeah. I don't think he would take McCourty for a 1st rounder again. If that makes me arrogant ... ok. 

     

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
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    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
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    I put a less less stock in the interceptions though, Wilson still looks lost out there at times, and Dennard picks were both of terribly thrown passes.

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    Yeah but at least we know they can catch.  An underrated quality in DBs.

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    exactly , it is always said if DBs had good hands thet would be WRS

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
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    So, a Pro Bowl rookie year with 10 INTs, one of the best ever for a CB, a down sophmore slump year with a separated shoulder off a lockout with BB jetissoning his safeties, and this means to you he's not worthy of being a needed CB choice in that 1st rd?

    Would you rather have Kyle Wilson? Joe Haden has already been suspended. 

    It's arrogant for you to think you know more than BB as a defensive coach, one of the best of all time, if not the best.

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    Kyle WIlson, no. Not for a first. In fact, I don't think any of those DBs taken in that draft were worth the hype. Nor Kareem Jackson who was drafted ahead of him, nor Patrick Robinson a guy some people compared him to. 

    I'd add, it was the most over-rated draft in years -- none of those CBs and only one or two of those vaunted DE/OLB types lived up to the hype.

    As far as what he plays on Sunday? I think BB plays the guys he has. What is going to do, cut McCourty? They owe that kid money, and have no one to replace him with. Dowling is injured. Etc.  

    Does that mean he would take him for a first again? Not in my mind. He was terrible last season, and has only been a little better this season. Far, far from his rookie year, where he did in fact look great, and truly worth a first.  

    My guess is that NE is drafting two more corners next season. Or a corner and a safety. 

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
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    You think that draft is overrated? 

    Are you going by the 1st rd only or the entire depth of the draft?  How can you claim that wasn't the deepest draft in years?

    As for McCourty, so you don't see a connection between new Safeties back there and the lockout having an effect on the chemistry in the secondary? 

    So, you think he just magically had a great rookie year and the lockout didn't affect the entire secondary last year?  It's a young team, this defense. 

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    Mostly the first round. Especially on defense. The names that were in there that were supposed to be "great" make a long list. McCoy, Haden, McClain, Alualu, Graham,  Morgan, Odrick, Willaims, yeah, Wilson and those other guys. 

    Yeah, Gronk, Hernadez and Jimmy Graham were all steals. But I don't think that draft was even remotely worth its hype. Even at the bottom end. 

    It was supposed to be 'the greatest' defensive draft in years. From where I sit, the offensive selections look better. 

    As far as McCourty ... I see him a step behind his assignment too often.

    Here is McCourty's interception against the Bills ... he is actually getting toasted. If Fitzpatrick isn't so terrible on that underthrow that could be six points the other way. This is a play 'stat checkers' here will say is good. It's terrible, terrible coverage. 

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap1000000067485/Devin-McCourty-INT

    Teams saw his game and adjusted. He hasn't learned how to adjust back. It looks like Darius Butler all over agan.

    Well, not that bad.

    But certainly not worth a first round selection IMO.

    Whatever, you can't win them all. Spikes, Mayo, Hightower, Jones are all winners so far.  

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
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    Mcourty has been fine so far this year and his work yesterday at Safety was good. Nice luxury for BB to be able to ask him to move back and forth.

    Ty Law was taken pretty early in the draft, but don't expect every CB BB takes in Round 1 to be a future HOFer.

     Also, ironic you're sold on Jones and Hightower, but they too, could have sophmore slumps next year. Would you wildly change your opinion if that happened?

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    Yep. 

    I'm not sold. But they are selling me fast. Hightower also isn't a first rounder. 

    But if Jones finished this season with 12 sacks. 

    Then comes back next season with 2 .... then has 4 the season after that. And is basically a non-factor. 

    Yeah. I'd call him a bust.

    Right now he looks like the real thing though. 

    That is why they invented the term one year wonder. Look at Jarius Byrd. 

    I like DMC better at safety. I was saying that late last season. He plays better when the action is in front of him. Wrs turn him around too often. Given how BB has mixed him in there, he tends to agree. 

    I expect a first rounder to be very very good. He was great his first season, and has been bad to mediocre since. The kid was second to last in QBR against last season, and is on the lower end this season too. 

    Given hindsight ... I would have traded out for the next season ... or thereafter. That draft didn't have anyone NE didn't already grab after that. 

    Maybe he'll pick it up again. Right now, he looks like a reach to me. 

     
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    Re: A look at Rookies Production !!!

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
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    In response to wozzy's comment:
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    We can always play "what if" with drafts, but it certainly won't help anything.  Nobody can predict injury, to the irrational fan an injured player is a bust.  Doesn't change that most of the players on our team have been labeled a bust at some point by fans whose allegiance wavers week to week. 

    Chung is a very good player, on a defense that showcased his skill set he would have more individual acclaim, but he wouldn't necessarily be winning.  Here he puts personal recognition aside, that's the Patriot way. 

    It's the same with McCourty playing free safety; he's playing there because he's the best athlete and can erase mistakes by Dennard and Moore at corner.  When our injured safeties come back, he'll go back to corner.

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    You can't predict injury but if a player is oft injured in college then odds are he'll be oft injured in the pro's, see Ras.

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    Ras played just about every game in college up until his final season, not exactly injury prone...

     
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