A question about Dungy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Trox1. Show Trox1's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    MVPKilla,

    I completely agree with virtually everything you've stated in this thread.  From the hypocrisy that is Dungy to your disbelief in organized religion (this coming from someone who spent 6th grade through 12th in Catholic schools and is confirmed in the Catholic church) to your political views.  Reading through this thread the last couple hours it's been quite interesting seeing the same person share my beliefs on such a wide array of topics.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from a2433j. Show a2433j's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Dude, hold the phone. First off, I'm Catholic. My fiance's Catholic. Her sister is gay. Does that mean she HATES her own sister? No. I think you are taking one piece of a religion and then generalizing that everyone sits there on Sunday and says "Zig Heil" like Hitler's minions.

    Hold the heck up. That's not how it works.

    Unless Dungy went on the record and made some sort of remarks about gay people, I'll take him as a god-loving Christian, which means he loves EVERYONE.


    Yes, the Catholic religious isn't crazy about homosexuality. But you know what? Most of that stuff was written over 2,000 years ago. Go read the book of Leviticus to see what else you "can't do." You can't touch a pig, work on Sunday, and you can sell your oldest daughter. Hey, "It's in the Bible...it's in the religion!!" Right?


    So let's have a brain and understand that just because this stuff is written down, doesn't mean the people who follow the religion WROTE it.


    Let me put it a different way: In any number of ways, the U.S. basically attacked Iraq for no reason. They killed a lot of innocent people. Lots of innocent people. They said there were Weapons of Mass Destruction. There weren't.


    You are a U.S. citizen.


    If I'm goig to use YOUR logic, that means you condone killing innocent people.


    I don't remember you stagin a coup, so obviously you condone it, so you are basically a murderer.


    How does that feel? You like that? That's what you are writing about Dungy.


    Maybe the whole white/black thing, you might have a point. But you know what? You don't have any clue what it's like to be opressed either. So if one black person wants to stand up for another black person, I've got no quarrel with that.


    It's Dungy's word vs. Vick's actions. Vick will be lucky to get a job. He probably will, but he has a small window and a short leash.


    So let's lighten up on Dungy a little.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    a2 - This question does not intend to defend our foray into Iraq, but it is important.  

    Who has killed more innocent civilians in Iraq, the United States or Saddam Hussein? 

    Are Iraqi citizens better off with or without Hussein? (forget about US interests)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Belenus555. Show Belenus555's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    underdogg:

    Not having the exact numbers at hand -  but based on the fact that Hussein had been in power 30+ years, I would guess that the Baath party has killed (through executions, putting down rebellions etc.) more innocent people than the US. However, as this country's stay in Iraq lenghtens, I can see the US eventually catching up to Hussein.

    As for whether Iraqi citizens whether better off under the old regime or not, I guess each Iraqi will have to weigh between: a/ repressive system of order that kept every faction afraid of Hussein and thus, not fighting each other (i.e. kurds vs. sunni arabs vs. shiite arabs) while public utilities and transport were in reasonable working order; or b/ neo-democratic system where you can say whatever you like and if so desired - take action against your hated 'others' whether they may be kurds, sunnis, or shiites - while the country's infrastructure has still not regained its pre-US invasion levels.

    Hard question to answer.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Belenus555. Show Belenus555's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    All:

    Has it ever occurred to you that by putting forth all of the great points and counterpoints expressed on this thread, we are doing exctly what social missionaries such as Tony Dungy want: taking time out from whatever we are doing to discuss serious moral, social, and poitical issues of the day?

    After all, the first part of a missionary's process in "saving" or converting you is to make you discuss the underlying issues that may be keeping you from your salvation or at the very least, getting you to think about it.


    Right?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    "Yapple - a personal question.  Do you not have health insurance and if not why not?  Otherwise, please elaborate on your comment."

    I used to have health insurance. It was too expensive so I cancelled. You may now accuse me of being retarded and incapable of earning enough money to afford health insurance like the millions who have it and are overjoyed because they assume they're covered and can get sick any time they want and their professional, competent and genuinely caring HMO and doctors, nurses and other medical professionals will rush to dedicate themselves to providing you with a timely and accurate diagnosis and heal you, especially if you happen to be a politician, celebrity, professional athlete, foreign national or convict.
    I confess to being in complete denial and I would rather take care of my health through eating good food, walking and shooting hoops whenever possible rather than contributing to a racket.   

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    ...please oh please can you tell me what he does not get a pass on? Do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars?


    Ok, here is what I don't give bush a break on:  1) His stance on illegal immigrants 2) His abandonning of capitalistic principles and starting the bailouts 3) His pro-life stance without the backbone to do anything about the issue.

    I'm sure there is more but these are the three that are most important to me (not in any particular order).  There's some more good rabbit trail jumping off points for this thread, which I'm still enjoying tremendously!

    If you will watch Bill Mahar on HBO you shouldnt have a problem with anything John Steward says.


    I'll watch Stewart before Maher.  You talked about Rush being a hater!! Maher's over the top, plus he's an idiot.

    ...war we did not NEED to be in...


    ...stained with the blood of the young men and women who died in a pointless war...


    ...it would be really great to watch you try and talk this "big picture" c rap with someone who has actually lost someone to this war.
    Posted by MVPkilla


    Having spent 24 years in the military, I have a different view from you and others of what is pointless and what is not.  If I thought every war was pointless, I never would have joined up.  I see a real need to stop oppression around the world.  Some people believe the US should not be the world's police force.  jesus said that to whom much is given, much is expected.  There is not a country on this planet that is more blessed than us.  If Liberty and Freedom are only for Americans or Westerners, than we've missed the point.  It's for everyone:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    If despots around the world are killing their own people and promoting terrorism, don't you think we have a duty to take them down?  The lassez-faire mindset is a thing of the past.  Terrorists don't have that mindset, why should we?  Do you think they will stop, ever?  This is a struggle, not for our way of life, but for our lives!  I will grant you the intel was imperfect and I may even give you that things could have been dealt with differently in Iraq.  But I truely believe that this war was inevitible.  The difference between the two sides is that westerners value freedom and liberty.  Islamic fundamentalists value purity.  They say look at all the graft, corruption, sexual perversion, crime etc, etc that freedom has gotten you.  our response is that a forced purity is not purity at all.  Look at all the looting that happened after Sadaam fell.  The difference is external controls vs internal controls.  If a people have internal controls (in their hearts) then they can live and let others live.  if control is forced ona people, then they comply out of fear.  this is not what America stands for and is why we fight.  We understand that freedom also drags bad living behind it, but it is also a cost of freedom.  It's not perfect, but it's the best we have.  And it's up to us to promote it, even though there is a cost.  If you say that you friends died in a meaningless war, then you cheapen their sacrifice.  I'm sure the Iraqis do not believe it was a meaningless war, even without their infrastructure being completely rebuilt.  Can you imagine what the reporter that threw the shoe at Bush would have got under Sadaam?  He, and most likely, his family would have been skinned alive.  Instead, he's serving some time for trying to injure a visiting dignitary.  If Islamic Fundamentalists are allowed to do what they want, do you think, (if they win this war) that they will spare your life?  Do you think they will put you in jail?  They strap bombs to their children!  They will kill you without a second thought.  Your life means NOTHING to them.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    "MVPKilla,"

    "I completely agree with virtually everything you've stated in this thread.  From the hypocrisy that is Dungy to your disbelief in organized religion (this coming from someone who spent 6th grade through 12th in Catholic schools and is confirmed in the Catholic church) to your political views.  Reading through this thread the last couple hours it's been quite interesting seeing the same person share my beliefs on such a wide array of topics." - trox1


    Trox, its good to know I am not alone in all of this lol Its seems I have had more people challenge what I have said then back me up so its good to know and thanks for saying so.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    ...In the first WTC bombing, I do not believe Clinton was briefed on the potential situation even though the FBI had an informant who told them of the potential attack a year before it happened.


    Most likely because Clinton did more to dismantle our intelligence capability than any other president in history.


    Bush, on the other hand, was fully briefed on the potential of suicide bombers hijacking planes and using them as bombs but chose to minimize the threat to the point of dismissing it.


    Here is the site for the actual memo that was redacted and released.  See if you call that "fully briefed" after reading it.
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB116/pdb8-6-2001.pdf

    But do you think he would have received Congressional backing to declare war on al Qaida?


    He didn't need it to go after him.

    Also, Clinton's killing bin Laden doesn't necessarily mean the hijackings never would have occurred. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed planned the attack so it is not a foregone conclusion that with bin Laden out of the picture, the attack would not have occurred.
    Posted by EnochRoot


    Ok, I'll give you that if you're willing to give me that the possibility was extremely reduced.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    All: Has it ever occurred to you that by putting forth all of the great points and counterpoints expressed on this thread, we are doing exctly what social missionaries such as Tony Dungy want: taking time out from whatever we are doing to discuss serious moral, social, and poitical issues of the day? After all, the first part of a missionary's process in "saving" or converting you is to make you discuss the underlying issues that may be keeping you from your salvation or at the very least, getting you to think about it. Right?
    Posted by Belenus555


    Yes, we're doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing.  And it's about time you rejoined the discussion B.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Here is another good link to a letter that an FBI agent wrote to the FBI director.  Shows (IMO) that there was much confusion concerning intel prior to 9-11.

    http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/pearly/htmls/911-memo.html

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Ok, here is what I don't give bush a break on:  1) His stance on illegal immigrants 2) His abandoning of capitalistic principles and starting the bailouts 3) His pro-life stance without the backbone to do anything about the issue.

    I'm sure there is more but these are the three that are most important to me (not in any particular order).  There's some more good rabbit trail jumping off points for this thread, which I'm still enjoying tremendously!
       So you admit that he is at fault for the bailouts? But you don’t cut Obama any slack for having to clean up Bush’s mess? So its Bush’s fault but Obama doesn’t deserve any slack for having to fix such a colossal cluster f*ck? That is some twisted logic, you get on Obama for losing bailout money but if Bush had not put us in this situation in the first place Obama would not have had lost any of that money. I am just saying if you give Bush a pass on such huge issues like lying to us all and starting a war on false pretences then you should be able to cut the new guy some slack for cleaning up Bush’s mess.  I am just wondering, what was your problem with his stance on immigrants? I am not as up to date with where Bush was on that topic so what was your issue there?  As for his “pro life” stance, his lack of action should really show you what a fraud he truly was. He used his religion to get himself elected but did not have the “backbone” as you say it to do anything about it. You know why? Well for one he can not force his values on all of us and neither can you so it would never work….ever. And two he is a fake, he played you, all of you. Do you have any idea how easy it was for him to say “oh I found Jesus, vote for me” and get elected? We could have elected a smart man who could have helped us with the health care problem in American or Global Warming in Al Gore but instead Bush played all you religious people into voting for a him and he ended up being a puppet who lied his way into a war that got lots of people killed so him and his pals could get rich. And try and remember I am not a democrat I just like Al Gore that’s why I say he was the better man for the job. But I got off the point what I was trying to say is the reason Bush never did anything about his pro life stance is he could care less, once he was in office he did not have a stance anymore. He played you. And by the way I am also still very much enjoying this thread.    I'll watch Stewart before Maher.  You talked about Rush being a hater!! Maher's over the top, plus he's an idiot.  He received his Bachelor of Arts in English and History from Cornell University in 1978. I would not call Bill Maher an idiot by any means. Just because he does not agree with your stance on life does not make him an idiot in fact he is a very smart person who is involved in a lot of different hot topics. Maher is known for his political satire and sociopolitical commentary. His commentaries target a wide swath of topics: religion, politics, bureaucracies of many kinds, political correctness, the mass media, greed among people and persons in positions of high political and social power, among many others. He supports the legalization of marijuana and gay marriage and serves on the board of PETA.[1] He is also a critic of religion and is an advisory board member of The Reason Project. Maher is number 38 on Comedy Central's 100 greatest stand-ups of all time. You don’t have to agree with him but to call him an idiot is short sighted. He is as objective as they come on his show, he brings on just as many Republicans as he does anyone else and he truly embraces debate. How exactly is he over the top? He might make a mean joke about how stupid Sarah Pailin is or something like that but he does not go over the top at least not anymore then anyone else does on other shows. Rush is a despicable human being and I would not lose a lick of sleep if someone killed that man. You call Maher an idiot but you support someone like Rush? Someone who is as one sided as I have ever seen. He will say anything he has to to further his own agenda. Wasn’t it Rush who was happy when that man killed that abortion doctor earlier this month? Him and others like him do nothing but spread false facts and half truths and will say pretty much anything short of actually telling people to go out and kill people who don’t agree with them. They make me sick and they are the reason a lot of people hate republicans. It is these types of republicans like Rush who try and force good upstanding people like General Powel out of the Republican Party. You can’t stand Bill Maher but you like this trash? I don’t even know what to say. At least Maher offers opposing views to his own on his show. He brings in Republican Governors and Bush supporters and sometimes he even agrees with the right wing like when Maher openly said he thought the serge was working in Iraq. He is a thinker not a hater.   I got the info on Maher’s history from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_MaherIncase you want to check my facts.    Having spent 24 years in the military, I have a different view from you and others of what is pointless and what is not.  If I thought every war was pointless, I never would have joined up.  I see a real need to stop oppression around the world.  Some people believe the US should not be the world's police force.  Jesus said that to whom much is given, much is expected.  There is not a country on this planet that is more blessed than us.  If Liberty and Freedom are only for Americans or Westerners, than we've missed the point.  It's for everyone:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    If despots around the world are killing their own people and promoting terrorism, don't you think we have a duty to take them down?  The lassez-faire mindset is a thing of the past.  Terrorists don't have that mindset, why should we?  Do you think they will stop, ever?  This is a struggle, not for our way of life, but for our lives!  I will grant you the intel was imperfect and I may even give you that things could have been dealt with differently in Iraq.  But I truely believe that this war was inevitible.  The difference between the two sides is that westerners value freedom and liberty.  Islamic fundamentalists value purity.  They say look at all the graft, corruption, sexual perversion, crime etc, etc that freedom has gotten you.  our response is that a forced purity is not purity at all.  Look at all the looting that happened after Sadaam fell.  The difference is external controls vs internal controls.  If a people have internal controls (in their hearts) then they can live and let others live.  if control is forced on a people, then they comply out of fear.  this is not what America stands for and is why we fight.  We understand that freedom also drags bad living behind it, but it is also a cost of freedom.  It's not perfect, but it's the best we have.  And it's up to us to promote it, even though there is a cost.  If you say that you friends died in a meaningless war, then you cheapen their sacrifice.  I'm sure the Iraqis do not believe it was a meaningless war, even without their infrastructure being completely rebuilt.  Can you imagine what the reporter that threw the shoe at Bush would have got under Sadaam?  He, and most likely, his family would have been skinned alive.  Instead, he's serving some time for trying to injure a visiting dignitary.  If Islamic Fundamentalists are allowed to do what they want, do you think, (if they win this war) that they will spare your life?  Do you think they will put you in jail?  They strap bombs to their children!  They will kill you without a second thought.  Your life means NOTHING to them.
         I never said every war was pointless, when we are fighting for something worth fighting for like in WW2 I am down to go to war but this war is not WW2 not even close and it was started under false pretences. He said they had weapons of mass destruction and sent us to war and he was lying! There were no weapons of mass destruction he lied. Not every war is pointless and wrong just this one. I am one of those who do not think it is America’s job to police the world because it is not our job to do so. You go on to quote Jesus and I am sorry but this is not a religious country, we are not the Holy Empire of America so quoting Jesus mean’s nothing to me. You are right when you say freedom is not just for us but for everyone, you are correct however it is not our job to make sure everyone else is free. It is not the job of our young men and women to die for other people’s freedom. American’s freedoms all over this country are being taken away by thing like the Patriot Act and you want to worry about someone else’s freedom? I don’t think so.  And don’t quote the constitution to me, using your logic it should read all men are created equal…unless you are gay in which case you are not privy to the same rights as the rest of us. If you truly believe all men are created equal you should have no problem with two gay people enjoying the same rights as the rest of us. You can’t have it both way’s.   Your point would make a lot more sense if we were at war someone else other then Iraq, you say “If despots all around the world are killing their own people and promoting terrorism don’t you think we have a duty to take them down” the problem with this point is we are at war with the wrong people. What about the genocide that has been going on in Africa for years? Or Pakistan? Or North Korea? There are plenty of country’s that were far worse to their people before we went into Iraq but we didn’t care because they didn’t have any oil. If this war was truly about stopping genocide and what not we would have gone to war with a real threat instead of with Iraq who was no threat what so ever at the time. Also there wouldn’t have been a need to lie to the American people about WMD’s that did not exist.  They don’t have that mindset so why should we? Hmmm because we are not them. Because we are not monsters the way they are. You don’t give up the moral high ground and become like them to beat an enemy. We are better then that.  And if when you say things culd have been dealt with better in Iraq you mean Bush could have told the truth instead of lying to the entire nation then yes it could have been handled better. He tricked us into this war and people died because of it. F*ck George W. Bush.  Look at all the looting that took place after their leader fell? Heck look at all the looting after the Lakers won the championship (sorry I had to go there lol )   You have a point about taking away from my friends sacrifice. I would feel more strongly about it if I didn’t know for a fact that my friends agreed with me that this was not what they signed up for. They signed up after 9/11 because they wanted to get Bin Laden and then suddenly Bin Laden become Sadam even though they could never connect the dots to prove that Bin Laden and Sadam had anything to with each other. But once you are in you follow orders. They took pleasure in the fact that they did get to help liberate Iraq and they were proud that at least some good came of this whole thing but before any of them died they agreed that this was not a war worth fighting the way taking down the Nazi’s was. They did not die for nothing but they also didn’t need to die in the first place.   And I have to say by the end of your last post it seemed to me that you were just trying to spread the fear that Bush sold us for 8 years and it wont work. Go ahead and tell us all about how they will never stop and how they will strap bombs to their own kids just to get us, and when your done please tell all about the boogy man under my bed while your at it. It sounded like the same fear mongering that Rush Limbaugh would spout out about and it’s BS. Just a scare tactic to try and get people too afraid to ask questions. Why don’t you also try and convince me that the war on drugs is a worth while campaign as well while your at it. Its just BS.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    sorry that post came out so lumped together i had it spread out but when I pasted into the thread it came out like one giant paragraph my bad. Hope its not too tough to read.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

         -- "Go ahead and tell us all about how they will never stop and how they will strap bombs to their own kids just to get us, and when your done please tell all about the boogy man under my bed while your at it." --

    Ummm . . .

    see . . .

    the thing is . . .

    they actually do strap bombs to their children (just like those fun-loving Viet Cong).

    No, Killa, the boogeyman is not hiding under your bed. But he is real, and one of his most effective weapons is your misconception that you are safe from him.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Pmike I am not saying they dont kill their own kids what I am saying is right wing America use stuff like that to keep other American's scared and stupid enough to let people like Bush do whatever they want in the name of "keeping us safe" and its BS.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    War is always about money, Killa -- always and forever -- and whatever the government sells us in the way of justification . . .  jingoism, deliverance, fear . . . is all just requisite smokescreen.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    agreed PMike, also you seem to know a lot about the boogy man, do you know him personally? lol
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Had lunch with him yesterday.

    He wanted me to tell you he's gonna getcha!Surprised
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Well then maybe I need to get my good friend the Candyman to watch my back, I just need to find a mirror and repeat his name 3 times and he is here so bring it! lol
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    "Yapple - a personal question.  Do you not have health insurance and if not why not?  Otherwise, please elaborate on your comment." I used to have health insurance. It was too expensive so I cancelled. You may now accuse me of being retarded and incapable of earning enough money to afford health insurance like the millions who have it and are overjoyed because they assume they're covered and can get sick any time they want and their professional, competent and genuinely caring HMO and doctors, nurses and other medical professionals will rush to dedicate themselves to providing you with a timely and accurate diagnosis and heal you, especially if you happen to be a politician, celebrity, professional athlete, foreign national or convict. I confess to being in complete denial and I would rather take care of my health through eating good food, walking and shooting hoops whenever possible rather than contributing to a racket.   
    Posted by Yapple


    Nope.  I do not accuse you of anything.  I do understand that healthcare is not affordable for many.  And if it makes you feel any better, one of my very best friends gave up his (and his family's) coverage about 1 year ago and his 11 year old son was diagnosed with Leukemia 3 months ago.  To date they have probably incurred in the neighborhood of 200k of billed charges which might equate to maybe 120k in contracted discounted services if they were insured.   

    But does that mean that a national system would be affordable?  Not necessarily.  There are serious problems with the system.  It is too disjointed and each player in the process wants its piece of profit and some want excessive profit.  But a goverment run system change that?  not necessarily.  Do we have an example - yes.  Medicare and Medicaid.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Underdogg you can tell us all about how s crewed the system is it does not matter, we are sopossed to be the greatest nation in the world so why dont we have health care for all? Your friend shouldnt be left out because he cant afford health care and now his son is sick and he has no one to help him. If Canada can make a health care system work through their goverment then we should be able to. But too many rich f*ck republicans would lose money if they did this and so greedy American wins out yet again. yahhhhhhh greed!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Please talk to an actual Canadian before trumpeting the success of socialized medicine in the godless north. Trust me, those who can afford to steer very wide of gubmint doctors. But hey, if endless waits for substandard care is your idea of good times for all, then by all means, jump right on board with your children's checkbooks.

    Oh . . .

    but before you do that, please identify one program the government runs efficiently and under budget.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    ...So you admit that he is at fault for the bailouts? But you don’t cut Obama any slack for having to clean up Bush’s mess?


    Absolutely none!  Bush may have started down the trail, but Obama turned it into a super highway!!!  Let me ask you.  If you have $5,000 worth of credit card debt, do you say to yourself, well i better take a $100,000 cash advance so I can get out of this debt?  It's sheer craziness, so no, he deserves NO SLACK!

    I am just wondering, what was your problem with his stance on immigrants?


    He wasn't firm enough on border security.  As a nation, we need the ability to pick and choose who comes into our country, and right now we don't.

    ...he can not force his values on all of us and neither can you so it would never work….ever.


    That's why I'm hoping for a Constitutional Amendment.  You seem completely outraged by the 3000+ Americans that have died in Iraq.  Why no outrage at the 50,000,000+ Americans who have died in the womb?  kind of hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

    And two he is a fake, he played you, all of you. Do you have any idea how easy it was for him to say “oh I found Jesus, vote for me” and get elected?


    He did appoint some conservative SC Justices though, which I was happy about.

    We could have elected a smart man who could have helped us with the health care problem in American or Global Warming in Al Gore...


    I'm assuming you mean John (I've got the purple hearts to prove it) Kerry.  Both he and Al (do what I say not what I do) Gore would have been terrible for this country.  Fakes all around.

    He received his Bachelor of Arts in English and History from Cornell University in 1978. I would not call Bill Maher an idiot by any means.


    I'm not impressed with his degrees.  you shouldn't be either. After all Bush's academic degrees come from Yale.

    Just because he does not agree with your stance on life does not make him an idiot...


    No, what makes him an idiot is he talks like an expert on things he knows nothing about.

    Rush is a despicable human being and I would not lose a lick of sleep if someone killed that man...Wasn’t it Rush who was happy when that man killed that abortion doctor earlier this month?


    If that is true, (and I'm not saying it is) how are you any different than Rush? That is the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw it!  And you tell me I can't have it both ways???  You have a Ditto card, don't you????

    I never said every war was pointless, when we are fighting for something worth fighting for like in WW2 I am down to go to war but this war is not WW2 not even close and it was started under false pretences.


    Nazis we're trying to take over the world.  What do you think Islamic Fundamentalists are trying to do?

    He said they had weapons of mass destruction and sent us to war and he was lying! There were no weapons of mass destruction he lied.


    Everyone, including Democrats thought that.  "He lied" is an assumption.

    ...we are not the Holy Empire of America so quoting Jesus mean’s nothing to me.


    Fine, but what he said is still relevant.  Those who have been given much have a responsibility to the rest of the world.

    ...however it is not our job to make sure everyone else is free.


    Who would you suggest?  France?

    It is not the job of our young men and women to die for other people’s freedom.


    Then those people will never enjoy it, plain and simple.  No other countries, save our allies, are stepping up to the plate.  You've just condemned the rest of the world to their freedom-less state.

    American’s freedoms all over this country are being taken away by thing like the Patriot Act and you want to worry about someone else’s freedom?...


    You mean the act that allows the government to eaves drop on suspected terrorists in order to prevent events like 9-11 from occurring again??  Absolutely!

    And don’t quote the constitution to me...


    It was the Declaration of Independence.  Sorry, there I go being a stickler, lol.  Just kidding.

    If you truly believe all men are created equal you should have no problem with two gay people enjoying the same rights as the rest of us...


    We've been here before.  I don't believe the government is obliged to protect non-procreating couples.  That's aside from the fact I believe it's deviantat behavior.  

    What about the genocide that has been going on in Africa for years? Or Pakistan? Or North Korea?


    One problem at a time. 

    If this war was truly about stopping genocide...


    They don’t have that mindset so why should we? Hmmm because we are not them. Because we are not monsters the way they are. You don’t give up the moral high ground and become like them to beat an enemy...


    I don't call sitting on our butts and doing nothing about terrorism "the moral high ground".  As the saying goes (and Jesus didn't say it) the only way for evil to win is for good men to do nothing.

    And if when you say things culd have been dealt with better in Iraq you mean Bush could have told the truth instead of lying to the entire nation then yes it could have been handled better.


    No, that's not what I meant but you're stuck on this Bush lied thing so.....

    Heck look at all the looting after the Lakers won the championship (sorry I had to go there lol )


    Good one.  however, this is the bad living I was talking about.  A by-product of freedom.

    You have a point about taking away from my friends sacrifice...They took pleasure in the fact that they did get to help liberate Iraq and they were proud that at least some good came of this whole thing but before any of them died they agreed that this was not a war worth fighting the way taking down the Nazi’s was. They did not die for nothing but they also didn’t need to die in the first place...


    You're friends are heros.

    And I have to say by the end of your last post it seemed to me that you were just trying to spread the fear that Bush sold us for 8 years and it wont work...


    It's only fearful if you sit on your thumbs and do nothing about it.  Bush did something about it.

    Just a scare tactic to try and get people too afraid to ask questions...
    Posted by MVPkilla


    No, the question should be "why aren't we doing more..."
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    I watch Bill Maher every week. His interviews and panel discussions are unscripted ( except for his questions ) and stimulating although I've become so cynical, I don't know if I can recognize the truth any more even if it's obvious. I also disagree with him on a number of issues. Especially nuclear power. I don't know about his high rating as a stand up comic ( I think that list also includes significantly unfunny people like Buddy Hackett ). I've seen some of his shows and they are often redundant. The opening monologue on the TV show consists mostly of him trying to make humor out of failed jokes. However, the New Rules are usually hilarious.
    As for Al Gore...he appears more intelligent than Bush. However, at the end of his movie "An Inconvenient Truth", he lists some of the personal actions you can take to prevent global warming. One of them is "Pray". After two hours of clinical, scientific evidence of global warming, he turns out to be no better than Bush by suggesting that we can save the planet by begging for help from heaven. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Please talk to an actual Canadian before trumpeting the success of socialized medicine in the godless north. Trust me, those who can afford to steer very wide of gubmint doctors. But hey, if endless waits for substandard care is your idea of good times for all, then by all means, jump right on board with your children's checkbooks. Oh . . . but before you do that, please identify one program the government runs efficiently and under budget.
    Posted by prairiemike


    Excellent point.  I have a friend in the UK who had to wait 8 months to get a hernia operation.  And that was after they bumped him up to the short list when he got a hernia on the other side too.  Socialized medicine doesn't work.  besides, someone that doesn't have health insurance can go to hospital emergency rooms and get care for free which the hospital will write off.  maybe not in all cases, but I know someone that regularly takes advantage of this program.
     
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