A question about Dungy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    If the universe (and therefore the number of clestial bodies in it) is infinite, how can you calculate the odds that such and such an ideal situation will or will not occur?


    It seems to me, if you can grok infinity at all, the odds of just about everything and anything happening at least once are pretty high.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Killa

    I’ve taken out the things we’ve come to agree on or agreed to disagree

      (Once again in my opinion if you think the church aired out all of its dirty laundry in the bible you are naive to think so. They might acknowledge that they are not perfect and that they will sin but that does not mean they openly talk about ALL of their sins.

    I agree.  The Church regularly tries to hide bad behavior.  This is not right, but human nature steps in because people don’t want to get caught doing bad things.  The Bible says every hidden thing will be revealed, so no one gets away with anything, unless it is covered by the Blood of the Lamb.

    For example when was the last time you went to church and they openly bashed their own church?

    Bash, no.  Correct, yes.  I don’t think it is appropriate for a preacher to do this.  If all religion is, is hitting us over the head with our past, then there is no point in going to Church.  Recognize the sin, repent for it, and help the congregation move on/get better is the role of a preacher.  Granted, the world probably wants to see more contrition from Churches, and I agree there is room for it.  However, if it was there, I would venture to say that it wouldn’t be considered as genuine.

    When was the last time you saw a preacher bad mouth the very church he belongs to for all of the sins I mentioned before that came after the bible was written? Have you ever once seen a preacher stop in the middle of a Sunday morning sermon and say something bad about how all those priests touched little boys?

    I’m not Catholic anymore so I cannot say.

    I find it hard to believe that they openly talk about their own modern day sins in church on Sundays. If anything they try to move past them and sweep them under the rug. )

    I disagree.  I have heard preachers address current sin in the Church.

    I am getting married in October and when me and my future wife talk about this kind of thing she says how she thinks it would be fun to bring our kids to church on holidays and such and I always tell her if she wants to do that then she can do it but that I will not attend with her. And I will not teach my kids to go to church or any of it. If they grow up and choose to become church going people then I am 100% with them making that choice once they have all the information to make a educated choice but I will not force religion on them the way so many other people do. )

    Congrats on your wedding. 

    They won’t be able to have all the information unless you support your future wife taking them to Church.  Holidays are ok, but to get the complete picture, regular attendance would be required.  Otherwise, kids usually (not always) follow the example of their parents.


    Only church people try and say being gay is a choice everyone else see’s it for what it is which is they do not make a choice to be gay they are just gay.) 

    You have no proof, just like I have no proof.  Both are suppositions.  Since that is the case, do I have the right to say you and all those that agree with you are wackos?  I’d rather the debate continue.

     

      (Exactly my point, you will leave church and think wow the preacher really missed on this one thing but do you challenge him?

    I have challenged many preachers on many subjects.  I feel it is my responsibility to challenge them if I feel they are dividing the word incorrectly.  Small things that I feel are insignificant, I won’t challenge on, but major points of doctrine, I will definitely approach them.

    You know its hard to believe that everyone agrees with the church on everything but yet no one challenges them? Why because then you become an outsider in your own church.

    If they kick you out because of a challenge, it was time to find another Church anyway.


    ( I like the sound of that, I am not being a joker either that truly sounds nice to hear, we need the church because we need each other that’s a nice way to look at it. I just don’t see it that way. I am one of those people who hate most people lol so I honestly don’t feel like I need people. I need the people I need, I need my future wide because I love her and she is my lady lol but I don’t need a church full of people. I get what your saying though it just does not apply to me personally.)

    Ok, but I think you’re depriving yourself of good company, or at least a good laugh now and then or a good place to find people you can hate!!!

    (true you the people are not in church because your perfect you are correct and you the people are there for salvation I get that but the preachers and the higher up’s are not you, they are not there for salvation they are there to give you salvation as if they are god themselves.

    You’ll find disingenuous people everywhere and Church is no exception. I can either choose to be part of the solution or the problem and abandon ship.  Like I said before, Jesus loves the Church (people) so I must strive to do the same.

     (See I would say people change people, god has nothing to do with it. Unless you have some photo of god coming down from heaven and putting his godly hands on a sinner and “changing” them. I think people will take comfort in god and use that comfort to help themselves change but that does not mean god literally changed them. And I did not say Science changes human nature, you asked me to name one thing that we have progressed other then technology in the last 12000 years and I answered you. Science since 12000 year ago has told us that we are not the center of the universe and that the sun is in fact the center of our universe a point that Galiao had to die for because it went again what the church was saying at that time. They literally killed a man for not lying about his findings, they wanted him to lie and he would not so they put him to death. That does not sound very godly to me. With Science man has progressed since the bible was written which is why in some backward a ss states you still can not talk about Evolution in some classrooms. Because god forbid you bring in an alternate theory into the world other then Adam and Eve.) 

    Actually, Galileo was not killed, but he was put under house arrest.

                Following a papal trial in which he was found vehemently suspect of heresy, Galileo was placed under house arrest and his movements restricted by the Pope. From 1634 onward he stayed at his country house at Arcetri, outside of Florence. He went completely blind in 1638 and was suffering from a painful hernia and insomnia, so he was permitted to travel to Florence for medical advice. He continued to receive visitors until 1642, when, after suffering fever and heart palpitations, he died.” Wikipedia

    Also why is that there is no outrage by the church that in some states people can marry and have sex with their pets but you are all up in arms about gays getting married? Kind of screwed up.)   

    I’d agree with that.  I’ve never heard of it so do you know which states?

    (Because it is there right to get marred that’s why, maybe in some third world country it is expectable to deny some people the same rights as others but we live in America and if they want to use the word married so they can tell their babies that they are married mommys and daddys then that is there right. Who are you (not you directly of course) to tell someone else what they can and cant do? What makes your opinion so important? If they want to get married they should be allowed to, the people standing in the way are not god and they can not speak for him I don’t care what the good book says you can not speak for him. If god is truly on your side on thi subject then why has he not come down to smite these sinners? If he would be truly upset about gays getting married then where is he to stop them? Cause Tony Dungy is not god and neither is anyone else in the church.)   

    I refer you to the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible.  However, that was in the Old Testament.  In the New Testament, God has deferred punishment until the great White Throne judgment.  Right now, He is giving all men a chance to repent.  Since Jesus is the sacrifice for sin (both the act and the nature), there is no judgement. Men will not be judged anymore by what they do, but by what they are (children of God or children of the devil).

    (well if the wacko’s with in your faith did not make it so easy for the “liberal” media to paint that picture they wouldn’t paint it. And that goes for the wacko’s in all faiths not just yours of course) 

    Point taken.

    (Because it is the right thing to do. And I thought going to church was soopossed to teach to do the right thing. If it is as simple as a definition then why do you care so much? It seems to me that the church is simply afraid of change. The fought change when it was science trying to change our knowledge of the world around us and now they are doing it with the gays)  

    I’d say that the right thing is to follow what the Bible says.  If you don’t accept the Bible, then you can justify any type of behavior.  As a Churchgoer, I’m not afad of change that doesn’t go against the Word of God.  Like I said before, there is nothing progressive about sin.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    good point Pmike, is it just me or is it the longer this thread goes on the more and mor ei think we all need to be passing a hooka around or something lol. This has turned into a stonerpalooza of theorys lol but i love it. I mean think about how many times a thread dies down and then there is no chatter on teh forum at all for hours, at least with this it keeps going so you have something to check in and read between work or whatever. 347 I have decided that I will only reply to your posts when they are directed at me, if i respond everytime you post to Z or Enoch I will never get any work done lol. I look forward to your next post.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    I'm with you, Killa -- I get lost in the techno-speak, but there's nothing I like better than a question that has no answer -- or many answers -- whichever you like.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Killa
    Check the post just before yours.  That one was in response to yours.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]If the universe (and therefore the number of clestial bodies in it) is infinite, how can you calculate the odds that such and such an ideal situation will or will not occur? It seems to me, if you can grok infinity at all, the odds of just about everything and anything happening at least once are pretty high.
    Posted by prairiemike[/QUOTE]


    PM
    I would say that is another problem with the universe being infinite.  I read a book in a class one time that estimated the amount of particles in the universe (don't remember the number).  But scientisits came up with a specific number.  i think it had to do with the red shift or something like that but I can't remember.  I'll try to dig it up.  Don't know if that science has been over run or not (Z may know).  but if there is a finite number of particles, then there is only so many interactions possible and I think the odds of all things lining up correctly were more than the amout of matter in existence.  I'll get back to you on that.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Speaking of infinity - this thread is approaching it!! lol
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    I just read your post 347, I will respond tomorrow as i do nothave enought ime here at work to do so.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Don't you just hate it when work interferes with your internet posting?

    I do.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kmaxx. Show Kmaxx's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    This thread is up to 10 pages......Dam I hate the off season.
    Does mini camp start soon?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Yes it is such a pain in the a ss I mean cant they just pay me to talk shop all day? lol
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Hi 347,

    OK, I don't have time to go "full bore" on the thread, I just wanted to "pop in" and science and religion to their seperate corners.

    The only time they need to meet isin creation arguments, and I don't see this as one per se, it seems more like a "belief" argument.

    At least that is as far as I take it, LOL.

    1/10,000, ok , let me explain.

    Most of what you are talking about is the development of a class planet like earth, roughly the same size, distance, etc. I have heard or read that 1 in 4 to 2 in 5 to 2 in 4 Systems has a planet "like" earth. 

    Of course that misses all the stars that are too large or small to really have a planet like earth anyhow. 

    That sounds daunting, but detrapolated over the universe this could equal numbers in tens of billions to trillions. It is that large, and it destroy's the meager odds that life could survive long enough to get to where humans are. This is what life does, it strives biologically to improve itself, that is beautiful to me.

    The 1 in 10,000 is roughly, the chances that intelligent life like humans (or maybe Dolphins too, lol) could deve developed "by now" on one of those planets like earth, that is in about 4 billion years.

    Given that it is a certainty that other "life bearing" planets exist out there, I mean life clings to the surface of harsh places like Mars and on one of Jupiter's moon's IIRC, the odds like that are the ones worth watching.

    The universe is so immense that it simply rushes large odds. And in the grand scheme of things 1/10000 is't that long. Like I said, fin dthe odds of powerball to see long odds. And our universe is so vast it crushes powerball odds too. It is like a giat random experiment.

    I don't believe in god, but I see no reason why alien intelligent life has any bearing on whether a god exists or not. If we find life on other planets, it only means that there are some friendly pals for us, hopefully friendly anyway, lol.

    And if someone who isn't me sees something more in that grandeur, good for them.

    About faith/logic. I would just say that you were partialy on to it, if there is a "god" that is truly omnipotent, logic is meaningless, and science is no help in detection. So why bother using them to 'fnd him'?

    It would be like using a telescope to find a tumor. Two seperate concepts.

    Metaphysics are not physics, they are what goes beyond physics into the world of dreams, desires, imagination, faith. Those irrational things that human kind couldn't write books, make paintings, or even develop politics or make senseless self-sacrificial acts without.

    That is my point about failed attemtps by therwise brilliant logicians to mesh the two together by breaking their own rules.

    As far as science, if God could be 'detected' then he is a sham god, lol. I wouldn't worship anything that is bound by the laws of physics, lol. If there is one he better be a humdinger of a god.

    As an atheist I don't look down on 'faith' per se. It is an understandable, and comepletely  human thing. I do get angry when people let their belief in a higher being cause pain to others that believe differently, or do not believe, but isn't the same thing as calling people wacko if they have it.

    I don't think either my mother or father are "wacko" and they believe.

    I just try to live my life with respect for every one on principle alone, and things will sort themselves out. All I hope is that everyone of every religion, or non-religion can get together and figure out how to improve life across the board.

    That way everyone can live with respect for thier neighbor and how he wants to live.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    "I just try to live my life with respect for every one on principle alone, and things will sort themselves out. All I hope is that everyone of every religion, or non-religion can get together and figure out how to improve life across the board."

    Sounds good. But it will never happen. It's 2009. Isn't it obvious by now that the human race, despite occasional good intentions, is headed towards self-destruction? Not necessarily from guns and bombs, but rampant hatred, jealousy, suspicion, corruption and the perversion of the environment. Most of the elected governments of the world are run by crooks, morons and those given to solving problems of economics, science and nature with religious platitudes ( of course, someone voted for them ). Other governments are medieval dictatorships or houses of poppycock royalty. But even if governments were perfect, there are just too many people. I was at the Rec Center the other day. I went into the sauna. A person in there asked me what I thought of the economy. I said..."Do you think there would be a crisis if the population were half of what it is now?" He walked out. That means that he thought I was nuts or he was greatly disturbed by the truth or maybe it was just time for him to leave. Anyway, he looked disturbed by what I said. Politicians and religious leaders might address just about any troubling issue. But never overpopulation. Who is going to tell humans to stop having so many babies? I was actually surprised that Octomom received some negativity. But that was more a case of anger that it might cost the taxpayers money rather than a sense of horror over the birth of eight more mouths to feed. Still, other multiple births and 66 year old pregnant women get standing ovations and congratulatory messages from politicians. And thanks to nice couples who mean well, the population continues to expand while our natural resources dwindle. How do you think that will that turn out? Naturally, the answers from humans are really clever...like cloning and artificial methods of food production that might result in who knows what side effects. Good luck. Be fruitful and multiply. Go Pats!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]This thread is making my brain hurt, but I would just like to mention that the reasoning that Z uses here is exactly the kind of thinking that could lead an imaginitive mind to speculate that our entire universe could, in fact, be the equivalent of a sub-atomic particle in a fantastically larger system. Ever try to wrap your mind around THAT? What if we're all just characters in "Horton Hears a Who"?
    Posted by prairiemike[/QUOTE]

    What you need,  I've got plenty of Tylonol, Ibuprofen, Advil or Aleve.  This is turning quite interesting and very "brainy".  Some thought provoking stuff.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    After reading all these loooooooonnnngggggg posts...  we can almost boil it all down to some simple thoughts...

    #1 - there are a lot of things that happen that can only be explained by saying there must have been some "divine" intervention...

    #2 - Scientists will always make the case that ANYTHING is possible and it took millions and millions of years to do it.  Give it time and it will happen!!

    #3 - If anything like we see in sci-fi movies were to happen ( ala - The Day the Earth Stood Still ) it will change a lot of thinking!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Greed will be the down fall of humanity Yapple, or at least thats what i think.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    "#3 - If anything like we see in sci-fi movies were to happen ( ala - The Day the Earth Stood Still ) it will change a lot of thinking!!"

    And speaking of "The Day The Earth Stood Still". After 58 years, it finally occurs to me...the alien supposedly has a superior intellect and superior technology. He demonstrates this by making condescending speeches and solving super complicated equations and turning off all power on earth. His robot vaporizes anything that gets in his way and brings the alien back to life after he's been shot. He threatens earth with total annihilation because we've developed the capability of launching nuclear weapons into space and that can't be tolerated by the other planets. If he's so omnipotent, why can't he just disable all missiles and nuclear weapons or have the robot just make them disappear? If a stray missile finds it's way into space, why can't it just be zapped? Instead, he says, if we don't behave, the entire planet earth will be reduced to a cinder. Therefore, he's no better than us. He's a pompous, hypocritical, pontificating ( his reference to the supreme being ), prejudiced, paranoid, saber-rattling buffoon. Both him and his stupid robot.
    Go Pats!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

           --"That means that he thought I was nuts or he was greatly disturbed by the truth or maybe . . .  " --


    "IT'S PEOPLE!!!  SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!" 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Its quite possible Yapples that the alien in that movie was in fact sith! lol
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    "Isn't it obvious by now that the human race, despite occasional good intentions, is headed towards self-destruction? Not necessarily from guns and bombs, but rampant hatred, jealousy, suspicion, corruption and the perversion of the environment."

    I would wrap this all up into selfishness and a lack of compassion.  Everyone is out for themselves and what they can get.  The "we're all in this together" mindset is gone, probably for good.  But it was foretold...


    "Who is going to tell humans to stop having so many babies?"

    Again, I think it's a lack of compassion.  There is plenty of space to make enough food for the world in Minnesota (according to the US government anyway).  Why we don't do it is because we don't care.


    "Be fruitful and multiply." Go Pats!
    Posted by Yapple

    The only commandment God gave that nobody has a problem with obeying!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

           -- "Again, I think it's a lack of compassion.  There is plenty of space to make enough food for the world in Minnesota (according to the US government anyway).  Why we don't do it is because we don't care." --

    As long as that wacky federal government keeps throwing gobs of subsidy dollars down the E-85 rabbit hole, my taciturn Scandanavian neighbors will not be growing your wheat.

    Okay?

    Yah, sure.

    Real good then.

    (Is it just me, or did this thread just take a sharp left?)Surprised

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    "Again, I think it's a lack of compassion.  There is plenty of space to make enough food for the world in Minnesota (according to the US government anyway).  Why we don't do it is because we don't care."

    Correct me if i am wrong 347 but you were a George W. Bush supporter right? Which means you're man has been in teh white house for 8 years. He always claimed to be a god fearing man (which I think is BS and he used religion to get eleceted but thats just me) so if you just had 8 years of backward a ss religious right wing politics in the white house then why did he not use his godly compassion that you speak of?

    I am not dissagreeing with you, i to think that greed and stupity will be the down fall of the people on this plannet. But I just wanted to see what you thought about that, I mean if you have had "you're guy" in the white house for 8 years and he is as religious has he claimed to be then why was he not growing enough food in Minnasota the way you suggest? Could it be that he too was only out for himself and he didnt care about teh American people one bit? I think that sounds more like him then him being full of compassion.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Religion meets politics.

    This should be fun.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    It was bound to happen lol I have been fighting the urge to bring it up since 347 tried to tell me he thought Bush was one of the presidents of all time which is just laughable. The guy had the lowest aporoval rating of all time and he left the white house a joke and a disgarce to Americans all ove rthe country. His reasoning was "we have not been attacked again since 911" like that is some how sopossed to make everything else he did ok. what a joke.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    There's not much point in debating the value of the Bush administration's policies regarding national security.  We cannot change the past. Of course, the Bush administration will never really be gone. You may rest assured that every neophyte mistake Bo Mama makes (and gosh, is he off to an impressive start) will be blamed on "the previous administration;" while anything remotely successful (if there is any such thing) will be the by-product of "progressive reforms" and "change we can believe in"

    What I think is interesting is that while the Human Ad Campaign is singing love songs to the Muslim world, he is also maintaining those reactionary policies almost in their entirety. Which is a refreshing "change" from all those silly campaign lies he told to get this job. I just "hope" everything works out.

     

Share