additional camp observations (but still early)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to Eldunker's comment:

    So what's up with Chandler Jones?  He was one of our highest draft picks and expected to be the pass rush savior that we desparately needed.  But Nobody is talking about him. Not a peep.  Is he not living up to expectations?  Is the pass rush not that important anymore?  Is he still injured?      I don't think it matters how good our CBs and S are if the QB has all day to pass...

    I'm not local, but would sure like sometbody to focus in on Jones and report something about the guy.  I believe his productiveity is THE most important factor in the improvement and success of our D this year.



    Jones is a freak. He is tall with abnormally long arms. He is fast and quick. He has great footwork. He is stronger than last year while still appearing slim. He has nice pass rush moves. He has 20 sack potential in a D that lets him loose on the QB. Question is will BB allow Jones to get after the QB every snap rather than playing the edge...if Jones is let loose, there will be some runs, same as we see with some one like JPP. Doubt BB will have that

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Adrian Wilson (health provided) is a lock.  

    He is one of our most talented defenders and nobody else on the roster can do what he can do.  We don't have another true Strong Safety on the roster and haven't had a legit one since Rodney Harrison.  

    This guy is a 5x Pro Bowler, 4x All Pro, is a member of an elite group (the 25/25 club) who have that many or more sacks and interceptions...

    Saying Wilson is "on the fence" is ridiculous.




    Wozz,

    I have no prolem with Wilson going into the Hall. I know he was a pro bowler. SUrely my opinion is meaningless, other than posting what I saw at practice. He is with out question a step slow. Will it matter...only BB will know. WHere I had envisioned A Wilson lining up in that big nickle spot, Collins has been in that spot and excelling.

    Most likely Wilson makes the team, I simply see him as on the fence. Gregory has been the better player from what I have seen at camp.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Adrian Wilson (health provided) is a lock.  

    He is one of our most talented defenders and nobody else on the roster can do what he can do.  We don't have another true Strong Safety on the roster and haven't had a legit one since Rodney Harrison.  

    This guy is a 5x Pro Bowler, 4x All Pro, is a member of an elite group (the 25/25 club) who have that many or more sacks and interceptions...

    Saying Wilson is "on the fence" is ridiculous.

     




    Wozz,

     

    I have no prolem with Wilson going into the Hall. I know he was a pro bowler. SUrely my opinion is meaningless, other than posting what I saw at practice. He is with out question a step slow. Will it matter...only BB will know. WHere I had envisioned A Wilson lining up in that big nickle spot, Collins has been in that spot and excelling.

    Most likely Wilson makes the team, I simply see him as on the fence. Gregory has been the better player from what I have seen at camp.




    My God, if Steven Gregory is better than Wilson (or anyone else) this is horrible news. Gregory is a guy that athletically can't get it done, I saw him get run by, over and around so many times last season it made me sick. I remember one particular play where he actually tackled a guy on our own team because his head was swimming from players running by him so fast. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Wozz,

    I have no prolem with Wilson going into the Hall. I know he was a pro bowler. SUrely my opinion is meaningless, other than posting what I saw at practice. He is with out question a step slow. Will it matter...only BB will know. WHere I had envisioned A Wilson lining up in that big nickle spot, Collins has been in that spot and excelling.

    Most likely Wilson makes the team, I simply see him as on the fence. Gregory has been the better player from what I have seen at camp.



    Wilson ran a 4.45 forty pre-draft, if he slowed down substantially he would would still be faster in his advanced age than Rodney Harrison was as a rookie.  Good safeties aren't good because they're amazing athletes, they're good because they have it upstairs.  Our defense will be nasty this year provided they remain healthy.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Wozz,

    I have no prolem with Wilson going into the Hall. I know he was a pro bowler. SUrely my opinion is meaningless, other than posting what I saw at practice. He is with out question a step slow. Will it matter...only BB will know. WHere I had envisioned A Wilson lining up in that big nickle spot, Collins has been in that spot and excelling.

    Most likely Wilson makes the team, I simply see him as on the fence. Gregory has been the better player from what I have seen at camp.

     



    Wilson ran a 4.45 forty pre-draft, if he slowed down substantially he would would still be faster in his advanced age than Rodney Harrison was as a rookie.  Good safeties aren't good because they're amazing athletes, they're good because they have it upstairs.  Our defense will be nasty this year provided they remain healthy.

     



    I agree, but the fact of the matter Wilson is enormous, and has lost a step. if he is on the team and getting regular snaps, he is going to be picked on to see if he can cover..

    I did not see him play much last year. I can only go by what I have been told and what was written...he was not out of the line up for salary reasons or to play young guys...after the Cards beat the Pats, the CArds were thought to be a legit playoff contender...Wilson was beaten out of snaps because he couldnt cover...

    Maybe BB can game plan and hide him, or maybe he will be in on snaps that play to his strength. my only comment is that from what I have seen in the limited time I have watched is that Collins is excelling in that spot, and Wilson has not...

    make of it what you wish, it is only my comment

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Adrian Wilson (health provided) is a lock.  

    He is one of our most talented defenders and nobody else on the roster can do what he can do.  We don't have another true Strong Safety on the roster and haven't had a legit one since Rodney Harrison.  

    This guy is a 5x Pro Bowler, 4x All Pro, is a member of an elite group (the 25/25 club) who have that many or more sacks and interceptions...

    Saying Wilson is "on the fence" is ridiculous.

     




    Wozz,

     

    I have no prolem with Wilson going into the Hall. I know he was a pro bowler. SUrely my opinion is meaningless, other than posting what I saw at practice. He is with out question a step slow. Will it matter...only BB will know. WHere I had envisioned A Wilson lining up in that big nickle spot, Collins has been in that spot and excelling.

    Most likely Wilson makes the team, I simply see him as on the fence. Gregory has been the better player from what I have seen at camp.

     




    My God, if Steven Gregory is better than Wilson (or anyone else) this is horrible news. Gregory is a guy that athletically can't get it done, I saw him get run by, over and around so many times last season it made me sick. I remember one particular play where he actually tackled a guy on our own team because his head was swimming from players running by him so fast. 

     



    I agree, and I thought Gregory wold not make the team. but in my estimation, so far he has outplayed both Wilsons....so far Harmon and Ebner are on a completely different level...

    McCourty-pro bowl level player

    Gregory-starter who wll be taken out in game plan situations

    AWilson-contributor who will be picked on in certain match ups, but in other situations will make a key sack or stuff a run.

    TWilson-playing like a rookie, not a 2nd year player. still making the same mistakes he made last year. has potential physically, have to question the mental aspect

    Harmon-strictly a special teamer this year. lost out there

    Ebner-on the fence. has value as a special teamer

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Adrian Wilson (health provided) is a lock.  

    He is one of our most talented defenders and nobody else on the roster can do what he can do.  We don't have another true Strong Safety on the roster and haven't had a legit one since Rodney Harrison.  

    This guy is a 5x Pro Bowler, 4x All Pro, is a member of an elite group (the 25/25 club) who have that many or more sacks and interceptions...

    Saying Wilson is "on the fence" is ridiculous.

     




    Wozz,

     

    I have no prolem with Wilson going into the Hall. I know he was a pro bowler. SUrely my opinion is meaningless, other than posting what I saw at practice. He is with out question a step slow. Will it matter...only BB will know. WHere I had envisioned A Wilson lining up in that big nickle spot, Collins has been in that spot and excelling.

    Most likely Wilson makes the team, I simply see him as on the fence. Gregory has been the better player from what I have seen at camp.

     




    My God, if Steven Gregory is better than Wilson (or anyone else) this is horrible news. Gregory is a guy that athletically can't get it done, I saw him get run by, over and around so many times last season it made me sick. I remember one particular play where he actually tackled a guy on our own team because his head was swimming from players running by him so fast. 

     

     



    I agree, and I thought Gregory wold not make the team. but in my estimation, so far he has outplayed both Wilsons....so far Harmon and Ebner are on a completely different level...

     

    McCourty-pro bowl level player

    Gregory-starter who wll be taken out in game plan situations

    AWilson-contributor who will be picked on in certain match ups, but in other situations will make a key sack or stuff a run.

    TWilson-playing like a rookie, not a 2nd year player. still making the same mistakes he made last year. has potential physically, have to question the mental aspect

    Harmon-strictly a special teamer this year. lost out there

    Ebner-on the fence. has value as a special teamer

     




    I don't see the physical potential in T. Wilson, to me he is just another undersized safety that we drafted who we thought was a gamer and who knows, maybe he'll turn into that.

    I really can't wait to see A. Wilson in game action because I think we'll be able to see right away if they're picking on him and how he handles it. If he doesn't handle it well, we all remember how Bill cut Lynch at the end of camp and I thought Lynch looked pretty good in that last pre season game..very physical, but he couldn't run anymore. If you can't run anymore in the secondary it's hard to hide you - for all the Rodney was slow crap - Rodney didn't look like he lost any speed throughout his career...he may not of come in with much, but he didn't lose it.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    The comment on twilson and the other kid from Rutgers who we drafted at safety make me wonder what bb is looking for in the position. It seems we have had a revolving door at this position and the one guy that is a lock to play it is a converted cb. 

    If what some say is true, that there really isn't a difference anymore between fs and SS, why bring in a guy like awilson? Why draft two years in a row, a shorter more compact SS type like Wilson and the kid from Rutgers? Maybe we are better off playing or drafting another athletic lb like a Collins instead of going to the well so many times with guys who seem undersized to play SS and not terribly athletic. Or, just draft a big corner and convert them. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I really can't wait to see A. Wilson in game action because I think we'll be able to see right away if they're picking on him and how he handles it. If he doesn't handle it well, we all remember how Bill cut Lynch at the end of camp and I thought Lynch looked pretty good in that last pre season game..very physical, but he couldn't run anymore. If you can't run anymore in the secondary it's hard to hide you - for all the Rodney was slow crap - Rodney didn't look like he lost any speed throughout his career...he may not of come in with much, but he didn't lose it.



    Apparently you didn't hear the story of John Lynch's final game in pro football, it's one of the best football related stories I have heard and a Belichick classic, but he wasn't cut, he retired.

    The story goes something like this, Lynch walked into BB's office right before the final preseason game and told coach he was retiring, Belichick tried to dissuade him telling him he made the team.  Lynch who suffered stingers over his entire body thanked coach but told him no thanks, but he did ask Bill for a favor.  He asked to play in the final preseason game and told coach not to take him out until he was done.  

    Anyway so the game starts and Lynch is out there, he ignores whatever play is called and free wheels, he blitzes like crazy, he's flying all over the place, Belichick is seen on the sidelines laughing. John Lynch was later asked what was his favorite game over his long illustrious career after finally hanging them up and he said it was the final preseason game with the Patriots.

    Big, strong, smart safeties don't need to be fast, they put themselves in position long before the play develops.  Wilson makes this team provided he stays healthy and he has been pretty durable over the course of his career.  Camp is all about shaking the rust off, it's about getting beat and learning from it.  

    He won't be "hid" at all, he will be the starting Strong Safety next to McCourty assuming everyone remains healthy throughout preseason.  This guy was a physical marvel when he was drafted, theres video of him making a 66" vertical leap.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu7W71aUr5s

    He could blow out a knee and have only one useable leg and he would still be faster than Rodney and Lynch.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    I think the Adrian Wilson stuff will play itself out. I do not think the comparison to Rodney are apt. For one thing, he is three years older than Rodney was when he came here (by the time Rodney was 34 he missed time every year). Also, Wilson was not cut simply to save money in Arizona. He had lost his starting job because the Cardinals felt they had a better player, not a cheaper alternative. 

    Ballard I am wondering about. I saw some of the footage from the practice with Philly and he still looks like he is limping a little bit out there. I am actually surprised he is taking part in full contact drills.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    I think the Adrian Wilson stuff will play itself out. I do not think the comparison to Rodney are apt. For one thing, he is three years older than Rodney was when he came here (by the time Rodney was 34 he missed time every year). Also, Wilson was not cut simply to save money in Arizona. He had lost his starting job because the Cardinals felt they had a better player, not a cheaper alternative. 

    Ballard I am wondering about. I saw some of the footage from the practice with Philly and he still looks like he is limping a little bit out there. I am actually surprised he is taking part in full contact drills.



    I'll make a bet that (if healthy) Wilson will be top ten on the Pats this year in defensive snaps, that he'll start the very first game on the starting unit and finish the season the same way.  

    I agree, this will play itself out.  Every year the negative Nancies and hand wringing happens the same way, and every year we are in contention for a Super Bowl.  All the backtracking will begin once the games start, these same people will be falling over themselves to say they thought all these suxy players and too old to play guys were great all along... happens every year. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    I'll make a bet that (if healthy) Wilson will be top ten on the Pats this year in defensive snaps, that he'll start the very first game on the starting unit and finish the season the same way.  

    I agree, this will play itself out.  Every year the negative Nancies and hand wringing happens the same way, and every year we are in contention for a Super Bowl.  All the backtracking will begin once the games start, these same people will be falling over themselves to say they thought all these suxy players and too old to play guys were great all along... happens every year. 

    I think he still has some left in his tank. They did not sign him to starters money (which makes me think no one was offering him that). Gregory got $7M over 3 years with $3.35 guaranteed. Wilson got $5M over 3 years with only $1M guaranteed as a signing bonus (for comparison Ed Reed - a year older than Wilson - got $15 for 3 with $6M guaranteed). Not that contract value will be indicative of future playing time, but it gives you an idea how Wilson was looked at around the league during free agency. 

    I think that if he does end up with that many snaps it says more about the other guys they have at the position (namely Gregory and Tavon Wilson), than it does about Wilson's own ability. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    I think that if he does end up with that many snaps it says more about the other guys they have at the position (namely Gregory and Tavon Wilson), than it does about Wilson's own ability. 



    Because his 26 sacks, 27 INT's, 4x All Pro and 5x Pro Bowl nods were completely overblown..?  

    If he plays it's because he is as great as he's been over his entire career.  I may be wrong but I think he'll be a game changer for us, we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out but I can tell you my excitement to see defensive improvement is off the charts.  

    You bring a guy like this in not only to improve your level of play but to teach guys like Tavon how to play the game.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    Here's where you are are wrong:

    Wilson wants a ring.  If you look at the contending teams for a ring, there aren't many who had their books as well kept as ours off the lockout. It's more about fit than anything else.

    Put yourself in his shoes.  If Houston goes after Reed as a FS need at 6 million, just who would be attractive to you in FA and which team has some room?

    Balt, Pitt? Nope. Cap hell.  In the NFC, who has cap room to pay you on your past laurels AND be a legit contender? Bears? Nope? Packers? Nope. SF has no room, nor does Seattle.  Detroit?  They wnet younger and overpaid for Glover.  Plus, do you think your odds are better in the NFC with Detroit or in NE with Brady and BB?

    Denver? Nope. Cap hell. You're seeing it right now.

    Look around the league. There are teams who are young and trending up, but don't want to get their system guys blocked in their development or had a lot of space to go spending (TB with Goldson).

    This was about BB having respect for Adrian Wilson and Wilson the same for BB, the fit and the opportunity. This is like saying no one wanted Rodney Harrison at age 31 in 2003. That's false.

    They've already made their money. Let the the guys who want the highest biddy toil away in Arizona or wheever else for 1-2 million more and no chance at a ring.

    Anyone proclaiming Gregory is superior to Adrian Wilson isn't getting it. At best, on the depth chart, Gregory is a swing safety (if BB wants to pay someone that for that role) with Tavon Wilson the eventual succesor to the Adrian Wilson role. 

    I still disagree that this is like Rodney. I never said no one wanted Rodney at 31. But, it is true that no one was offering Adrian Wilson starting safety money at age 34. Three years older is a big deal. Rodney was not losing playing time to younger players in San Diego. He was a straight salary dump. Wilson was not cut just to save the money. He was cut because it did not make sense to pay his salary to a safety they felt had to come of the field in passing situations. Maybe, the Cardinals were dead wrong, but that was their evaluation of him last season. 

    The cap hell thing is a BS argument. His contract from the Patriots is barely above veteran minimum for player with his experience (the minimum for a 10+ year guy is $910k per year and he is getting $1M). At that number, any team who wanted him would have found a way to get him in under the cap. Denver is something like $9.2M under the cap going into this season (only $500k less than the Patriots).

    I am sure that Adrian Wilson wants a ring. It is true that he has not entered a season expecting to be a top seed, but he has been as close to winning a Super Bowl as the Patriots have been since 2004. So he knows as well as any player that just picking the favorite does not guarantee you a ring (for questions on this see Jerome Iginla). I am sure there is a ton of mutual respect between BB and Wilson. That does not mean that Wilson can still play at high level (by which I mean pro-bowl level not just NFL capable).

    All that I said, I already mentioned I think that he will easily make the roster, and I assume he will be starting next to McCourty for the Patriots for most of the season. I just think that says more about the safeties on the Patriots roster (McCourty is a converted CB, Gregory was a dud as lasts years FA signing, and Tavon Wilson is still an NFL unknown).

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    We have not even had 1 PRESEASON game ... and some are righting off T Wilson who by all accounts is one of the smarter young safeties in the league. Was he awsome as a rookie? No. SO what. He played a reasonably good amount. I expect he will see the field and be of some value. I am not expecting great things, just that he become more solid... like Nink has.

    Also, many here all over the original post. Gee guys, the guy just said what he saw, not what BB must think or do. Give him a break. Gee, everything gets personal around here.

    RE: DTs - Armstead still held out but there is some hope he will add value as depth (and not just hold a roster spot).

    RE: DEs - Jones is not someone I worry about except I want him to simply improve over his rookie year. BB said some positive things about Bequette - not a typicla thing the way he said it. SO I hope he adds value in depth and can at least spell Nink giving us both a little more pass rush at times and making Nink more rested which does seem to impact his effectiveness.

    RE: LBs - Mayo is a stud. Spikes tough run stopper - I hope he ups his pass D at least some bit. I have high hopes for Hightower... Hightower could be one of a few guys whose improvement makes a real and concrete difference. His upside it McGinest level upside. Collins - could he add value as a DE and some value as an upgrade on passing downs at LB? I wonder where his biggest impact will be... I hope he has some impact... but I do wonder if he is a full year away from impacting at all.

    RE: DBs - no worries about DMC at S. If T wilson improves he adds some value. If A Wilson has something left he adds value over last year. If Gregory is better than T Wilson that will be a help via upgraded play but I am not sure  expect much more out of Gregory but depth. Talib and Dennard are critical and solid. Arrington is OK if not asked to play out of position. Not at all sure after those guys. Some possibilities but nothing sure. Dowling looks good for one play - a year... Lets hope he can find a way to be healthy.

    OVerall.... D shhould be improved if healthy. Early observations are interesting. If Gregory looks good that is not a bad thing! Still, I dont expect him to "start" though who knows...

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    Operating cost space? Where did you pull that one from? It's called plain old cap space, just like the other 31 teams have, just like the pats Have. 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    Karp called it

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    You know, I do plan on attending camp again this summer, but have 2nd thoughts on posting my observations here. I actually thought I was right in 75 % of my comments

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    You know, I do plan on attending camp again this summer, but have 2nd thoughts on posting my observations here. I actually thought I was right in 75 % of my comments



    Keep posting RKarp. Don't let Rusty get to you.  Observations are just observations and yours are always good to hear. 

     

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    Real fans want to know how Brady looks and if he's dropped the ego yet and if he is improving not playing favorites and keeping that Binky Club intact.  

     

    Snicker . . . 

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: additional camp observations (but still early)

    Ah, the summer of 2013. Me bludgeoning Russell about Pats personnel. Those were fun days.

     
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