Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

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    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     



    We signed Washington to a $1.2mil deal. Comparing cap numbers that's $.5mil less then Woody's cap hit this year. Appearently BB thought it was important enough to back up Vereen to give $1.2mil to Washington. Not sure why that $.5mil made such a huge difference when we knew Woody fit the system

     

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    im not speaking for BB but when giving 500K less to Washinton he probably thought ok that's our backup scat back AND this guy is a great KR! I have Vereen to play main scat back and Leon can be our reserve guy for him and be our KR and finally have a competent KR again and all for 500 K less.

    but of course none of that panned out and washington was a waste

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that was the thinking, no doubt but we are always having issues finding guys who fit the system so why take that risk over 500k, does that make sense to you? As a KR guy I agree worth signing to improve kicking game but he wasn't much of a scat back since the Jets. So, personal preferrence on my part, if your scat back is oft injured my first priority is to find him an effective backup and if a KRer is considered a critical need $1.2mil for a kick returner isn't spending a ton. They could afford $1.2mil and not be burdened with having to decide between a KRer and an effective scat RB backup. Honestly if $1.2mil breaks this team we are in real trouble aren't we?  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    ....Going for it is spending, it's the out of pocket money that really hits an owner's wallet. It's not the favorable contracts that land you subpar players who you can cut and not have to worry about a dime of that cash coming out of your actual pocket (dead money). That's going for it...again it's not something you do every year, but in my opinioin it would of been a good idea a few years ago (I thought it was warranted) and I think it's a great idea now. What's the down side? The player you acquire could suck here. The player you spend that money on may decline in performance and you are stuck with him and the bonus/contract you spread out through his deal...it could potentially hurt you at some point..it also could win you a Super Bowl (see Giants, Pittsburgh, Ravens). I can live with a 8-8 season while we suffer through a season of paying for a few bigger contracts/salary cap hell. I would gladly do that for another Super Bowl, hell yes! What is the worst that could happen? We don't win a Super Bowl (which we haven't done in a decade) and then we end up with a top 12 pick because of our poor record? That's bad? That's so scary? No it isn't, what is scary is our owner is dead set against going over the budget, that is scary because Brady is not a guy who comes along very often...neither is Belichick.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Ravens make occasional forays into free agency, but the Giants and Pittsburgh are as conservative as the Pats, especially Pittsburgh. They're better known for guys who've left there as free agents than ones they've signed. 

    Big name free agents are overpaid by definition. If signing overpriced guys who are seldom worth the price is how you go for it, then the Patriots, like most teams (including Pitt and the NYG), don't usually go for it. They make trades and sign mid-level FAs, and reserve big contracts for their own FAs.  They manage the cap and don't splurge.

    I really think this whole discussion boils down to unhappiness with players they've brought in, not the money being spent. That really has very little to do with it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ...


    Unless one is getting injured all the time then you need a proper backup. No Bolden is not a scat back, never will be. Bolden is closer to Ridley and Blount so why do we need 3 of those types but only 1 scat back who's injured a fair amount of time?

    [/QUOTE]

    So then, if they had kept Woody they'd have been better than Denver, is that it? That cost them the SB?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ...


    Unless one is getting injured all the time then you need a proper backup. No Bolden is not a scat back, never will be. Bolden is closer to Ridley and Blount so why do we need 3 of those types but only 1 scat back who's injured a fair amount of time?

    [/QUOTE]

    So then, if they had kept Woody they'd have been better than Denver, is that it? That cost them the SB?

    [/QUOTE]

    certainly didn't help did it? I hate this game because in the end it's not whether that player would have pushed them over the edge it's if they are using the right mindset and management. Is the practice on the whole of saving scraps for unknowns or less productive players over rewards those who fit the system and preformed. But, if we are talking Woody, 2 of the loses in which Vereen was injured the Pats went a combined 2 for 24 on 3rd downs. Woodhead's specialty was getting 3rd downs. With Woodhead or Vereen could they have won one of those games, might have. Then the AFCCG game would be in Foxboro. Would that have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not but it certainly wouldn't have made it worse would it?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that was the thinking, no doubt but we are always having issues finding guys who fit the system so why take that risk over 500k, does that make sense to you? As a KR guy I agree worth signing to improve kicking game but he wasn't much of a scat back since the Jets. So, personal preferrence on my part, if your scat back is oft injured my first priority is to find him an effective backup and if a KRer is considered a critical need $1.2mil for a kick returner isn't spending a ton. They could afford $1.2mil and not be burdened with having to decide between a KRer and an effective scat RB backup. Honestly if $1.2mil breaks this team we are in real trouble aren't we?  

    [/QUOTE]

    i guess so. you can never know injuries and that screwed them at RB this year

    i just think BB made a good decision on Woody and bringing in Wash. it saved 500K and got us a backup 3DRB and KR. in the end it didnt work out but you win some and lose some.

    if Vereen stay healthy a full season this discussion on Woody wont continue

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    ....Going for it is spending, it's the out of pocket money that really hits an owner's wallet. It's not the favorable contracts that land you subpar players who you can cut and not have to worry about a dime of that cash coming out of your actual pocket (dead money). That's going for it...again it's not something you do every year, but in my opinioin it would of been a good idea a few years ago (I thought it was warranted) and I think it's a great idea now. What's the down side? The player you acquire could suck here. The player you spend that money on may decline in performance and you are stuck with him and the bonus/contract you spread out through his deal...it could potentially hurt you at some point..it also could win you a Super Bowl (see Giants, Pittsburgh, Ravens). I can live with a 8-8 season while we suffer through a season of paying for a few bigger contracts/salary cap hell. I would gladly do that for another Super Bowl, hell yes! What is the worst that could happen? We don't win a Super Bowl (which we haven't done in a decade) and then we end up with a top 12 pick because of our poor record? That's bad? That's so scary? No it isn't, what is scary is our owner is dead set against going over the budget, that is scary because Brady is not a guy who comes along very often...neither is Belichick.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Ravens make occasional forays into free agency, but the Giants and Pittsburgh are as conservative as the Pats, especially Pittsburgh. They're better known for guys who've left there as free agents than ones they've signed. 

    Big name free agents are overpaid by definition. If signing overpriced guys who are seldom worth the price is how you go for it, then the Patriots, like most teams (including Pitt and the NYG), don't usually go for it. They make trades and sign mid-level FAs, and reserve big contracts for their own FAs.  They manage the cap and don't splurge.

    I really think this whole discussion boils down to unhappiness with players they've brought in, not the money being spent. That really has very little to do with it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Unhappiness with players brought in is part of it, sure, but I relate that to spending as well. I'm not saying we - or anyone - can go out and get whoever they want, but they can target a better player (that costs more) some seasons. We did that in 07 - five minutes into free agency they brought in Thomas, then Stallworth, then signed Welker, then traded for Moss...that cost money. Those were higher end players - three of the four were young and either in their prime or heading into it (And Moss was far from over the hill). They also went out and signed some useful players that were in their prime that weren't high end money guys.

    We didn't win the Super Bowl in 07, but it was a memorable season one miracle catch from being perfect. I'd be willing to bet adding players like that would do more good than adding players like Gregory, Leon Washington, Michael Jenkins, Amendola, Fanene, Trevor Scott, Robert Gallery, Joseph Addai, Fells, Schiancoe, Ballard, Adrian Wilson, Shaun Ellis, Haynesworth, and many other waste of time free agents.

    Again, I'm not saying you can wildly spend every year, but you can spend more than we have...you can attract better players...you can sign guys in their prime once in a while, but it will cost more.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that was the thinking, no doubt but we are always having issues finding guys who fit the system so why take that risk over 500k, does that make sense to you? As a KR guy I agree worth signing to improve kicking game but he wasn't much of a scat back since the Jets. So, personal preferrence on my part, if your scat back is oft injured my first priority is to find him an effective backup and if a KRer is considered a critical need $1.2mil for a kick returner isn't spending a ton. They could afford $1.2mil and not be burdened with having to decide between a KRer and an effective scat RB backup. Honestly if $1.2mil breaks this team we are in real trouble aren't we?  

    [/QUOTE]

    i guess so. you can never know injuries and that screwed them at RB this year

    i just think BB made a good decision on Woody and bringing in Wash. it saved 500K and got us a backup 3DRB and KR. in the end it didnt work out but you win some and lose some.

    if Vereen stay healthy a full season this discussion on Woody wont continue

    [/QUOTE]

    True but when has that happened? If I have a sports car I really love that starts half the time I'm not going to say well maybe this winter will be different and it will start every time. No I'm going to get a solid reliable backup car to make sure I can get to work and I can trust it will do what it needs to do. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    True but when has that happened? If I have a sports car I really love that starts half the time I'm not going to say well maybe this winter will be different and it will start every time. No I'm going to get a solid reliable backup car to make sure I can get to work and I can trust it will do what it needs to do. 

    [/QUOTE]

    agreed and that solid reliable back up was Washington..

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    True but when has that happened? If I have a sports car I really love that starts half the time I'm not going to say well maybe this winter will be different and it will start every time. No I'm going to get a solid reliable backup car to make sure I can get to work and I can trust it will do what it needs to do. 

    [/QUOTE]

    agreed and that solid reliable back up was Washington..

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering his previous 3 years in Sea I would question the Pats definition of solid and reliable when talking terms of primary backup role then

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    Considering his previous 3 years in Sea I would question the Pats definition of solid and reliable when talking terms of primary backup role then

    [/QUOTE]

    all of those people were behind Marshawn Lynch who barely leaves the field and Justin Forsett for a time who was the scat back

    look, to me, signing a backup RB and good KR saving 500K was smart. it forced Vereen to step up this year and be the guy it was his jump year.

    the moe obviously didnt work because of injury but in the end injuries happpen and i still think BB made the smart move letting Woody walk. Woody isnt a solid backup to a scat back, he's a starting scat back but Vereen has more talent..

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Considering his previous 3 years in Sea I would question the Pats definition of solid and reliable when talking terms of primary backup role then

    [/QUOTE]

    True; Your always a good voice of reason here in my book, I follow you closely. I think just about the same as you. Getting rid of both Welker and Woodhead was foolish to me, as a fan. Those are first down machines and I believe keeping one or the other was the difference as the Pats would be in the SB now.

    I also read where Mthurl gets a lot of criticism but I also share his thoughts and frustration(s) as well. I suppose anything is considered BB bashing among some. Not true! That's exactly what a forum is for, opinions. You two are not lap dogs.

    I think it was Rkarp that said "A. Wilson was not moving well in pre-season practice, makes me think that he was already injured before signing. Then thinking back where in 2011 the Pats had 18 DLs' in camp, what sticks? Then last year, even before the SHTF, they had 11 TEs'? Why? Then BB fields the worst D in SB history in 2011, what a disgrace! What is most frustrating to me is that this nonsense (same wishful thinking) has been going on for quite awhile.

    Keep up your good work.

     

     

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcherbrook. Show Fletcherbrook's posts

    Re: Adrian Wilson Unsure About Future

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Google"

    lol

    What a moron. What you don't get is that for every player that plays here and the leaves on a very cheap contract, with some dead money carry over, BB has an answer. This year, it was two rookies and Julian Edelman, all but taking up maybe 3 million total on the books in 2013.

    So, again, you're not getting the fact that other NFL teams carry dead money.

    Every single NFL team carries dead money. It's as sure as water being wet or you being dumb.

    The only reason why you over-dramatize and over-sell this angle is to deflect from Brady's crappy postseasons, so just forget it.

    We carried dead money in 2007. NE went undefeated and then Brady started crapping his panties in January and then into February in the SB. He did it again in 2011, 2012 and now this year.

    So, it doesn't really matter how much dead money is on the books when you come steamrolling into the postseason and your HOF QB can't play a good game. It just doesn't matter.

    Muzwell is 1000x more intelligent than you are. Truth and fact.

    It's beyond pee your pants funny to watch you impose this faux intelligence over people who are clearly dozens steps ahead of you on this. Dozens.

    Every team carries dead money. BB budgets for it as a built in contigency, similarly to how he sometimes tries to double down on draft picks when he can. The world is an imperfect place, as is signing FAs, drafting players or not knowing if your TE might morph into White Bulger or your HOF QB has the trots on the Wed before the AFC Title game and goes home to sit on the throne all day.

    Got it? Good.

    [/QUOTE]

    The question was why we had 4 million in cap space opposed to Denver's 6.6, I think I answered that pretty well. Denver spent more, they added better players. We didn't spend as much and the players we brought in because they were cheaper, didn't work out, therefore we had to go out and sign more guys who won't be here next year either. It's kind of like a viscous little cycle. Thirteen teams spent more actual money than us, that's good with you, right? Yet our actual ticket prices are the highest in the NFL...it's good business, it sure is. See Kraft is smart, he knows what he is doing even if you don't. You sure you worked in business? Because if you did you'd realize it's no longer about winning around here - it was once, but those days are long gone...now I know you'll say you're just fine with that and it's all Brady's fault anyway, but I expect more than that.

    Yesterday Kraft said he could go for it every year if he wanted to, no one is asking for that, but once in a while would be nice.

    You love Brandon Lloyd - even compared his numbers to Jerry Rice (lol) - well why wasn't Lloyd here this year? Because he was too expensive! Do you think Lloyd could of helped this team? Honest question, do you? Because you've praised the guy for over a year. Now what would Lloyd of cost this team this year? We could of afforded him. And don't say we released him because he was a head case, it was reported we reached out to him after we cut him to come back at a lower number. It's always about the budget around here. Always. Patriot Place is expensive, have you seen that place? No you haven't. There is vacancy signs on the windows  - Monday through Saturdays is a ghost town there - that place is a big reason why we are so concerned with budgets now.

    [/QUOTE]

    When did I compare Rice's career numbers to Brandon Lloyd?  Again, another lie.

    Lloyd was not here because he was too expensive. Lloyd was not here because your budddy Brady didn't want him here. Your buddy Brady has this thing that is now well known around the NFL called the "Binky Club".  

    This means WR FAs have no interest in coming here because they have heard or have seen Brady's beyond irrational behavior when a WR isn't perfect. He shows them up on the field and then jeopardizes possibly winning a game by shunning them. We've seen it time and again.

    So, when Brady sits down at the end of the year and demands other bodies in here, BB listens.

    Finally, Lloyd was not expensive at all. For a known system player like that, he was a bargain.

    Brandon Lloyd 
    Signing bonus
     - $3 million 
    Option bonus -- $3 million 
    Workout bonus -- $100,000 in 2012, $100,000 in 2013 and $100,000 in 2014 
    Base salaries -- $900,000 (2012), $1.9 million (2013), $2.9 million (2014) 
    Quick hit -- For a player of Lloyd's caliber, this deal shows how much Lloyd wanted to play in New England. Receivers who aren't as talented as Lloyd were cashing in around the NFL. 

    All you do is wait until something isn't fantastic with a FA so you can swoop in and then blame BB and the players that is signed or traded for.

    If Brady is so good, why is he in need of Pro Bowl or HOF players all around him all the time?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Pats 34-17 going away right home cheese?


    That last sentence is one of the most idiotic you have ever written. Pure 12 year old garbage. I am 90% sure you are special needs. In which case your caretaker has to be informed of your situation. 

    By the way...why would any QB need HOF players around them? To win a fkn Super Bowl idiot. Your lunch pail brigade mentality is over bro. It's 7-10 years past its prime. Times have evolved. You need talent and depth. Major talent at key positions. BB does a great job at the depth. Probably too good. It siphons cap space off from the top end talent pool. Napoleon.

     
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