Agent maintains...."Patriots didn't want Welker"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    When all is said and "Dunn", the agent screwed up and will never admit to it.  We all recall Welker stating his "agent" is handling everything.  So, what has Dunn said and NOT said to Welker?  Only Dunn knows and the Patriots are too good of an organization to say anything negative.  It simply moves on.



    How did Dunn screw up?  Does anyone thing Welker could have gotten more from the Patriots than 16 million over 2012 and 2013?  Welker is getting just about the same over those two years, with a chance at another 6 million in 2014.  Dunn screwed up if Welker could have gotten something signficantly more from the Pats than 16 million over two years, but if that's what the Pats were offering, then Welker ended up with about the same.  

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     


    Dude, he and Brady take vacations together. They're buddies.  LIke, good buddies. Wes WANTED to be here.

     

    Did you see his press conference? He looked like he couldn't wait to get the f off that podium and just get this week over with.

    He could have played this year out here at 8 million and then been a FA in 2014 possibly securing a big FA deal by some desperate team.

     



    If being in New England was that important to him, he maybe should have taken the deal.  But from a financial perspective, I think he and his agent made a reasonable choice even if it didn't pan out as well as they would have liked.  

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

     

    When all is said and "Dunn", the agent screwed up and will never admit to it.  We all recall Welker stating his "agent" is handling everything.  So, what has Dunn said and NOT said to Welker?  Only Dunn knows and the Patriots are too good of an organization to say anything negative.  It simply moves on.

     



    How did Dunn screw up?  Does anyone thing Welker could have gotten more from the Patriots than 16 million over 2012 and 2013?  Welker is getting just about the same over those two years, with a chance at another 6 million in 2014.  Dunn screwed up if Welker could have gotten something signficantly more from the Pats than 16 million over two years, but if that's what the Pats were offering, then Welker ended up with about the same.  

     

     

     




    It is about the same, but he could be HERE vs there.  Dude, he doesn't really want to be there. Once camp starts, the season starts, he'll be fine, but the fact 1-2 teams only were in on his services, that proves the lack of bidding with a flat cap, his age, the fear of overpaying to due NE's system and Brady's relationship, and too few quality QBs like Brady needing a slot guy, it limited the market.

     

    Repeatedly, we heard things like "the general consensus is Welker's best fit is in NE with Brady in that system".

    It's the truth.



    Sure, I agree with that.  All I'm saying is when offered 16 mill over two years with a chance to test the market in 2014, the agent thought it was better to take 9.5 for one year and test the market a year earlier in 2013.  That seems reasonable given Welker's age. He may have even less value in 2014 and might still be desirable to only one or two teams. 

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sw4288. Show sw4288's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    Bedards article about the evolution of the offense is what tells me everything. They were prepared to move on and they did. I think they'll be better for it. What is most encouraging is is the development of the running backs. Shane Vereen's balls dropped in the Houston playoff game and Brandon Bolden without any injuries or suspensions could have been a big part of the offense and I think he will be in 2013.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

    How did Dunn's agent NOT screw up? !16 mil guarenteed for 2011 and 2012 is worth much more then 6 million gaurenteed for 2013...remember 2014 is Denver's option, not Welker's, so even though something drastic would have to happen for him not to get paid in 2014, it's not any kind of certainty.

     

    The time value of money dictates that, given the same investment, money received earlier, all other thing being equal, is worth more than money received later....two years worth of investment rates of return versus inflation...nope, Dunn really screwed up!



    The offer was supposedly 16 million for 2012 and 2013.  He got 9.5 in 2012 under the tag and is set to get 6 million in 2013, plus he has a decent opportunity to get another 6 million in 2014 (some reports even say the 2014 6 million is guaranteed).  Welker didn't get what he wanted either way, but he really didn't lose much in 2012 and 2013 by not taking the Pats offer and had a second chance in free agency this year (at age 32) to get what he wanted that he wouldn't have had had until 2014 (when he was turning 33) if he had taken the Pats offer.  

     

    The reality is the market for Welker was soft this year.  It probably would be even softer next year with Welker older and the cap unlikely to be much higher.  Last year, the franchise tag kept Welker from testing the market.  So he either had to take what the Patriots offered (8 million per year average) and test the market in 2014 or play under the tag for 9.5 million for one year and get a chance at the market this year.  It may not have worked as Welker would have liked, but it certainly wasn't a bad decision.  

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

    How did Dunn's agent NOT screw up? !16 mil gaurenteed for 2011 and 2012 is wotrth much more then 6 million gaurenteed for 2013...remember 2014 is Denver's option, not Welker's, so even though something drastic would have to happen for him not to get paid in 2014, it's not any kind of certainty.

     

    The time value of money dictates that, given the same investment, money received earlier, all other thing being equal, is worth more than money received later....two years wortth of investment rates of return versus inflation...nope, Dunn really screwed up!

     




    No, it's 8 million from NE in on that offer with himg being a FA in 2014.  So, it's 2 million less at 6 in Denver in 2013.

     

    2 million and a place he'd prefer not to be.

    It's quite possible Wes's numbers will be worse in Denver than here, so if Denver let's him walk after 2013 or he gets hurt in 2013, that's where Dunn screwed up more.

     

     



    Yeah, but he got 9.5 million last year instead of 8 million (assuming the deal was structured to give him 8 million last year).  He's being paid 2 million less this year, but he was paid 1.5 million more last year.  

     

    Also, time value of money actually plays in favour of what Welker and his agent did, unless under the Pats offer he would have gotten more than 9.5 million in year one, something I doubt. 

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In my opinion the Patriots were miffed Welker spurned their offer last year - they probably didn't like his age either. And Welker probably didn't like the offer he got this year (and I don't blame him). In the end this offense needs more than just Welker catching a million short passes - they need to spread the ball around and get better/younger on the outside. Hopefully Amendola will be able to be a litle more dynamic than Wes and hopefully we will get some guys that are smart and can run on the outside.

    I'd be willing to bet Welker would NOT of accepted the same 2 year 12 million dollar deal that Denver offered him...and I don't blame him.



    "n my opinion the Patriots were miffed Welker spurned their offer last year - they probably didn't like his age either. And Welker probably didn't like the offer he got this year (and I don't blame him). In the end this offense needs more than just Welker catching a million short passes -"

    agreed and ive been saying the latter for a while

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    WHO CARES! Who REALLLLLLLLY cares. If you want a soap opera watch some bad TV. If you want football watch football, talk football, even play football. But why this never ending obsession with soap opera BS. You should hear yourselves.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

    And the last major point that has previously been mentioned...Dunn, as an agent, has one primary responsibility..TO KNOW THE MARKET for his client's skills......he obviously miscalculated BADLY....it's HIS fault...because of that, you'll never likely get the TRUTH, only his spun version of events...he's got to protect his professional rep after a screw-up with a high profile player...The Pats are doing the same, spinning the same way...it's the nature of the business



    You can't calculate the market precisely . . . that's absurd.  What you do is make judgments based on the information you have.  I think the agent was trying to get 20 million guaranteed for Welker, with Welker assuming he'd play three more years.  When the Pats went 16 million for two years, the agent and Welker had to decide whether they take that and have to try to get the other 4 million in 2014 or take 9.5 and see if they can get upwards of 10.5 million in 2013 and 2014.  If Welker gets the 6 million in 2014, I think they would have accomplished their goal of $20 million.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    Now water under the bridge. 

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I could understand the Pats not wanting Welker if they are going to move away from a offense that relys heavily on the slot position.  Based on the moves so far it doesn't look like that was the case.  So I really question why they decided to move on in the first place.  Amendola is not a proven player, he is injury prone, and although he is younger then Welker, he isn't exactly young at 28 yrs old.  If he was 23-24 then I get it.  But with everything I posted I just don't get it.  No way Amendola makes this a better offense then Welker did.

    Had the Pats wanted to keep Welker it would have just cost a little more, they could have easily done it. But since they were trying to do the Moss phase out last season and then signing Amendola before Welker got an offer then the writing was on the wall.  Big mistake, and if they don't do something "BIG" with this receiver situation before the season starts then I just don't see how the offense will be what they need to get over the top this season.

     

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

    And the last major point that has previously been mentioned...Dunn, as an agent, has one primary responsibility..TO KNOW THE MARKET for his client's skills......he obviously miscalculated BADLY....it's HIS fault...because of that, you'll never likely get the TRUTH, only his spun version of events...he's got to protect his professional rep after a screw-up with a high profile player...The Pats are doing the same, spinning the same way...it's the nature of the business

     



    You can't calculate the market precisely . . . that's absurd.  What you do is make judgments based on the information you have.  I think the agent was trying to get 20 million guaranteed for Welker, with Welker assuming he'd play three more years.  When the Pats went 16 million for two years, the agent and Welker had to decide whether they take that and have to try to get the other 4 million in 2014 or take 9.5 and see if they can get upwards of 10.5 million in 2013 and 2014.  If Welker gets the 6 million in 2014, I think they would have accomplished their goal of $20 million.  

     

     



    Not precisely, but you can make educated guesses.  Dude, the cap has been essentially flat since the 2011 season started.

     

    Each team's cap numbers are public. So you can see who screwed up and who didn't.

    If you're an older team with some bloated contracts, you're screwed, which means a bloated FA market.

    So, there are all kinds of ways to play the odds with how you negotiate with your players as you look at FA and realize that a flooded market helps YOU as a GM.

    Ironically, the WR market is thin, but Welker is not a flanker, so the dumb Wallace or Jennings contracts really don't tie into Welker's situation. Welker is a victim of his own success, in a nutshell.

     

     



    Welker was disadvantaged in numerous ways.  First of all, he was tagged, which prevents him from negotiating with other teams.  Really a player's only leverage is being able to negotiate with other teams.  If he can't do that, he's pretty much at the mercy of the team that tagged him.  Welker is also getting up in years and, as you say, is a slot receiver who most GMs probably think wouldn't be nearly as successful in most NFL offenses. So he and his agent were negotiating from a position of weakness.  The only way for Welker to increase his leverage was to get out from under the tag, and doing that sooner rather than later was important because of his age.  I'm sure that's the calculation Welker and his agent were making when they decided to play under the tag and get to market again in 2013.  The market might not be any better with a flat cap, but at least with some competition in the bidding for Welker's services there was a chance another team would get into the action and drive the price up.  As it is turned out, Welker didn't get a ton of interest, but if the rumours are true, he coud have had as much as 15 million from Tennesse . . . that would have been much better financially than what the Pats offered.  But Welker also wanted to play for a team where he felt he'd have a chance to win.  Denver's a good choice for him.  Good QB, a contender, and close to Aspen where Welker got married  . . . 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I could understand the Pats not wanting Welker if they are going to move away from a offense that relys heavily on the slot position.  Based on the moves so far it doesn't look like that was the case.  So I really question why they decided to move on in the first place.  Amendola is not a proven player, he is injury prone, and although he is younger then Welker, he isn't exactly young at 28 yrs old.  If he was 23-24 then I get it.  But with everything I posted I just don't get it.  No way Amendola makes this a better offense then Welker did.

    Had the Pats wanted to keep Welker it would have just cost a little more, they could have easily done it. But since they were trying to do the Moss phase out last season and then signing Amendola before Welker got an offer then the writing was on the wall.  Big mistake, and if they don't do something "BIG" with this receiver situation before the season starts then I just don't see how the offense will be what they need to get over the top this season.

     

     


    Welker has failed during his two biggest opportunities to make a big play in consecutive play-off runs. Stop glossing over that fact. Welker has lost his way in following the Patriot Way during those same two seasons. Welker of last season is older and has proven two years in a row that when the chips are on the line, he chokes. Why would an older, slower, less confident Welker be better than a VERY YOUNG 28-yr old receiver who has so much less mileage and is a bigger faster stronger and more efficient pass catcher with TB throwing to him? You only get so many chances to make THE PLAY of your life in a carreer. WES HAD TWO! You either do it, and gain fame and stardom and leverage, or you don't and you move on. STOP QUESTIONING BB on this! Get back to your accountig job where you belong. Or, do you make Wes Welker Fat Heads for the bedroom ceiling? Either way, your whining is really, really old. Its OVAH!!!

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    Again, how did he lose? The 500K difference between this year and next (balanced with a decent chance of $6 million next year)?  You keep saying he "lost."   The reality is he basically broke even.  Maybe lost a small amount.  Maybe came out ahead, depending on what happens in 2014. 

     

    It's not like he ever had 20 million on the table and turned it down.  That would have been a "loss." But that was never there. 

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    We didn't want Jennings either. 

     

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