Agent maintains...."Patriots didn't want Welker"

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    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Again, how did he lose? The 500K difference between this year and next (balanced with a decent chance of $6 million next year)?  You keep saying he "lost."   The reality is he basically broke even.  Maybe lost a small amount.  Maybe came out ahead, depending on what happens in 2014. 

     

    It's not like he ever had 20 million on the table and turned it down.  That would have been a "loss." But that was never there. 

     



    Will you just stop already?  My god, dude.

     

    Here's how he lost:

    1. He has no control of his deal past 2013. The cap doesn't go up until 2015. Slot WRs with that many miles entering age 32 don't have leverage and don't make prime era deals. 

    So what?  He's still getting pretty much the same amount of money in 2012 and 2013 as he would have if he signed the reported deal teh Pats offered him in 2012. He would have had no control of the Pats deal after 2013 either.  

    2. He would much rather prefer to play in NE.

    Maybe . . . maybe not, though, after the way he feels they treated him. 

    3. His agent was looking for 8 per from NE and 3 years just this past Tuesday if you believe what Reiss reported (I do), which should tell all you need to know about what his expectations were and what the market really was.

    Again, so what?  It's not like they lost this deal.  It was never there. That's just what they were hoping for.  

    His agent failed him by not being realistic AND not getting him signed in NE to retire a Patriot. He completely was oblivious to the real market for his services.

    Maybe they knew the market full well, but were bluffing a bit.  You don't go into a negotiation saying to your partner, "oh gee, you're right, I can't get more than you're offering me . . ."  You act like you want more than you think you'll get.  Also, they key to testing the market is getting a chance to have teams compete against each other.  This requires getting away from the tag--and at Welker's age getting away from the tag in 2013 was important rather than waiting another year.  I can't believe you don't get this.  It's basic. 

    Dead honest: The Pats will be a better team overall than the Broncos next year. Denver's D isn't that great down the middle at LB and S.

    Welker probably sees that too.

    Brady got an extension and restructured and I think Welker felt that gave him leverage. It didn't.

    BB called the bluff. He lost.

    No he didn't. He just went to Denver. At this point, maybe he's glad he did.  

    Go watch his press conference and tell me he's enjoying being up there at the podium. lol

    He couldn't wait to get off that podium and get the hell out of there.

     




     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

    Accept the fact that Dunnn badly misjudged the market for his clients services...he "asked" the Bronco's for a deal?   C'mon man...the dude screwed the pooch...he lost his client money....Kraft told everyone the caP WOULD BE FLAT FOR TWO YEARS NOW, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A SURPRISE TO ANYONE, THE GUY KNEW ALL THE LEGUES NUMBERS, HE NEGOTIATED THE LAST CONTRACT WITH THE NFL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION......THAT IS AN AGENT'S JOB, TO KNOW THE MARKET AND THE NUMBERS AVAILABLE..THAT'S WHAT THE GUY GETS PAID TO DO, AND HE GETS PAID WELL...HE COST HIMSELF, AND HIS CLIENT WELKER CASH...opps, for the caps

     

     


    I was on here in 2010 saying if they do lockout it will leave a cap around the 2009 number for a big chunk off the lockout. I was right.


    I shouldn't know more than any agent, including Welker's.

     

    Interesting.....

     

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

    Accept the fact that Dunnn badly misjudged the market for his clients services...he "asked" the Bronco's for a deal?   C'mon man...the dude screwed the pooch...he lost his client money....Kraft told everyone the caP WOULD BE FLAT FOR TWO YEARS NOW, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A SURPRISE TO ANYONE, THE GUY KNEW ALL THE LEGUES NUMBERS, HE NEGOTIATED THE LAST CONTRACT WITH THE NFL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION......THAT IS AN AGENT'S JOB, TO KNOW THE MARKET AND THE NUMBERS AVAILABLE..THAT'S WHAT THE GUY GETS PAID TO DO, AND HE GETS PAID WELL...HE COST HIMSELF, AND HIS CLIENT WELKER CASH...opps, for the caps

     

     


    I was on here in 2010 saying if they do lockout it will leave a cap around the 2009 number for a big chunk off the lockout. I was right.


    I shouldn't know more than any agent, including Welker's.

     

     



    You also were claiming Mankin's agent blew it too  . . . then Mankins ended up signing a massive deal.  I don't think you really understand how this works.  Look, the franchise tag puts players at a big disadvantage.  In that situation, agents have tough, tough games to play to try to get their clients' the most money.  Welker "lost" little if any money over what he would have gotten had he signed the (alleged) 2-yr, 16 million deal the Pats offered him.  It's obvious to anyone who can do simple math that Welker pretty much broke even.  I don't believe you're too dumb to realize that, but I do think you're too stubborn to admit it.  

     

     

     

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

    Accept the fact that Dunnn badly misjudged the market for his clients services...he "asked" the Bronco's for a deal?   C'mon man...the dude screwed the pooch...he lost his client money....Kraft told everyone the caP WOULD BE FLAT FOR TWO YEARS NOW, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A SURPRISE TO ANYONE, THE GUY KNEW ALL THE LEGUES NUMBERS, HE NEGOTIATED THE LAST CONTRACT WITH THE NFL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION......THAT IS AN AGENT'S JOB, TO KNOW THE MARKET AND THE NUMBERS AVAILABLE..THAT'S WHAT THE GUY GETS PAID TO DO, AND HE GETS PAID WELL...HE COST HIMSELF, AND HIS CLIENT WELKER CASH...opps, for the caps

     

     


    I was on here in 2010 saying if they do lockout it will leave a cap around the 2009 number for a big chunk off the lockout. I was right.


    I shouldn't know more than any agent, including Welker's.

     

     

     

    YOU ARE RIGHT AND YOU DON'T! The Patriots just didn't want Wes and the hype that they really did was simply to drive up the costs to their rivals. What is so hard to understand about not wanting a guy who flopped on the two most important plays of his career. Time to move on. At least they gave him two tries at becoming a big play maker. Enough already......Welcome DA!

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    well BB obviously thinks a change is necessary....and cant say i disagree. welker was a great patriot, but now they start a new chapter. this may be better for brady and the team.

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    Amendola can play inside and outside, he's 5'11--average height for many WRs in the NFL--and runs a 4.5--also average speed--and has longer hands. 

     

    Welker's one thing he did well was have dependable hands, he dropped 10 balls lst season.

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    There is so much nonsense in her that it's no longer crazy, it's absolutly funny!

    It was clear that the Pats were going to move away from Welker, no way did he deserve to sit on the bench and watch as he was being phased out while they already had Amendola signed and being brought in to take his spot.  And no, they weren't phasing him out because Welker cost the Pats a SB or a Playoff game, it's not like he dropped a pass in the end zone that would have won the games.  There is plenty of blame to go around, starting at the top with the coaches and game plan of both games.  For instance... Where was Vereen in the game plan against the Ravens after having such a huge role the game before?  Why did things go down hill on defense against the Ravens?  Talib was on the bench hurt, again.  We could go on and on with pointing fingers at the playoff game as well as the SB.  To put all the blame on Welker just shows how many fans here watch the games with blinders on.

    There is no way to tell how this is going to workout this season.  History shows that while Welker was producing on the field, being one of the top receivers in the league, Amendola was spending onother season on the bench being hurt.  Everyone acts like Amendola is some young 22-23 year old but he's going to be 28.  28 without having being a top producer or having a year where he had even half the stats as a Welker season.

    Now, unless the Pats make some great WR moves they aren't even going to have Welker to be a go to guy.  I don't like it and if all the Welker haters are too blind to see any of this then you are looking throw rose colored glasses.

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    what's funny is your man crush on a broncos player! LMAO

    now tell us why they were phasing him out and why he's no longer a patriot after back-to-drop dropsies




    Because he wouldn't accept their low ball contract offers.  Its well documented to being the Patriot way that they will offer a player what they want to pay, usually lower then market value, expecting them to take a hometown discount.  Welker already played with a team friendly deal, totally out played his prior contract, most teams usually redo contracts for players who are outporfoming their current contract, not the Pats.  Then when he wanted and deserved to get paid they wouldn't do that, as once again it's not the Patriots way to do so.  Pats got butt hurt and in the end it's going to cost them exactly the same way it cost them when they wouldn't extend Moss.  Same story, different player.... same results are expected.

    I'm pretty sure if Welkers drops were a problem TFB wouldn't put the trust in him that he did.  Last I checked Brady trusted him pretty good as once again Welker had another amazing season last season.

    It's funny to see you and a few others continue to defend the mistakes the Patriots make.  It's okay to admit they make mistakes, it doesn't make you less of a fan.

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    "It's become very apparent the offense needs a tweak and that's really all this is.  NE and its fans don't sign up dominate bad or average defenses only to see the formula disppear in the postseason. Nothing personal, it was what it was."

     In several years I don't think I have agreed with anything you have posted about our offense beyond the need for a good run game but this is spot on. 

    "No way Amendola makes this a better offense then Welker did."

    Umm, you don't know that yet. No one does. 

    Rusty is correct, however, that this team is focused on the postseason. And while Wes has been good in the postseason he has been far from perfect. 

    I get that you're bummed Welker is gone, understood. But I don't see how you get to decide now which player is going to work out better. You may be right, you may not be. The rest of us would like to play the games out and see how we fare in the postseason if that's ok with you. 

    One thing I think we do agree on is that it was unfortunate Welker ended up in Denver. But you can't make decisions based solely on those factors. 

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

    Accept the fact that Dunnn badly misjudged the market for his clients services...he "asked" the Bronco's for a deal?   C'mon man...the dude screwed the pooch...he lost his client money....Kraft told everyone the caP WOULD BE FLAT FOR TWO YEARS NOW, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A SURPRISE TO ANYONE, THE GUY KNEW ALL THE LEGUES NUMBERS, HE NEGOTIATED THE LAST CONTRACT WITH THE NFL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION......THAT IS AN AGENT'S JOB, TO KNOW THE MARKET AND THE NUMBERS AVAILABLE..THAT'S WHAT THE GUY GETS PAID TO DO, AND HE GETS PAID WELL...HE COST HIMSELF, AND HIS CLIENT WELKER CASH...opps, for the caps

     

     


    I was on here in 2010 saying if they do lockout it will leave a cap around the 2009 number for a big chunk off the lockout. I was right.


    I shouldn't know more than any agent, including Welker's.

     

     

     

    YOU ARE RIGHT AND YOU DON'T! The Patriots just didn't want Wes and the hype that they really did was simply to drive up the costs to their rivals. What is so hard to understand about not wanting a guy who flopped on the two most important plays of his career. Time to move on. At least they gave him two tries at becoming a big play maker. Enough already......Welcome DA!

     



    Umm, well, it's apparent I do.  The market will be the same next year.  I nailed the Jets demise lock, stock and barrel, too.

     

    The agent thought BB wouldn't pull the plug and BB called the bluff. That simple.

    I agree, welcome DA.

     

     


    OK, so since we're taking credit for predicting the future, I was flogged this time last year when I declared that Waste Welker was a goner after they tagged him going into 2012. The writing was on the wall as BB does not give aging veterans, past their primes, who buchk the pholosophy of the PATRIOT WAY, multi-year contracts.....especially those who are incapable of performing in the big moments when they count most. He hates to see the player decline right in fromt of his eyes. If the palyer doesn't still have upside potential, SEE YA! This was a no brainer. WW was gone the moment he signed his TAG last season. TFB12 and the rest tried to blast me for saying it, and now he and the rest are WHINING STILL. WELCOME to the PATRIOTS DA!!!

     

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    With all due respect to everyone posting here, may I sugges that this issue is rapidly falling into the dead horse category.  Before PETA raids the forum I recommend that we move on and look forward to the results of the offensive overhaul that, at least in my view, is inevitable.  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

     

         

    "what's funny is your man crush on a broncos player! LMAO

    now tell us why they were phasing him out and why he's no longer a patriot after back-to-drop dropsies"

     

    "Absolutely correct , sir" as Ed McMahon used to say to Carnak the Great...again, WW was 3rd for the last two years running in most drops per pass attempts for receivers in the NFL per NFL Network...it's not just in the playoffs where he drops them, it's pretty much on a consistant basis...maybe he's getting worried about the Bernie Pollards of the world, like he did in the AFC Championship game, after wrecking his knee two years ago...those injuries make a man mortal, especially when they decide tro go for the cashhhhhhh...it's just human nature...can't get a big contract if you are over 30 and damaged goods




    The real number you need to look at is the drop rate, not dropped passes.  There is a big difference between the two and you need to know that... You need to look at the drop rate, not dropped passes.    And going into last season Welker wasn't even in the top 15 of highest drop rate over the past 3 years.  So while you like to throw out a number, maybe you should throw one out that matters. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    but welkers own agent said they never offered him a contract (after he dropped the SB). instead, they gave him a nice $9M+ franchise tag and allowed him to prove himself. then he once again proved himself as a regular season stat machine and playoff choke artist. BB doesn't care about regular season stats so stop bringing them up, he coaches to win SB's. that's why today we see.....

     

    "It's funny to see you and a few others continue to defend the mistakes the Patriots make.  It's okay to admit they make mistakes, it doesn't make you less of a fan."


    ok i'll admit it.... wes welker made mistakes and had 2 HUGE playoff drops...now you admit it too...




    The only pass I see he should have caught was in the Ravens game, the SB was a bad pass, could have and should have been better.  But to say they lost those games because of those two drops, which you have said was the reason, is just plain silly.  You should know better then that and if you don't you are just a trolling hater watching with blinders on. It's a tired argument that doesn't hold up.  Without Welker they don't even get to those games.

     

     
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    Re: Agent maintains....

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    but welkers own agent said they never offered him a contract (after he dropped the SB). instead, they gave him a nice $9M+ franchise tag and allowed him to prove himself. then he once again proved himself as a regular season stat machine and playoff choke artist. BB doesn't care about regular season stats so stop bringing them up, he coaches to win SB's. that's why today we see.....

     

    "It's funny to see you and a few others continue to defend the mistakes the Patriots make.  It's okay to admit they make mistakes, it doesn't make you less of a fan."


    ok i'll admit it.... wes welker made mistakes and had 2 HUGE playoff drops...now you admit it too...

     




     

    The only pass I see he should have caught was in the Ravens game, the SB was a bad pass, could have and should have been better.  But to say they lost those games because of those two drops, which you have said was the reason, is just plain silly.  You should know better then that and if you don't you are just a trolling hater watching with blinders on. It's a tired argument that doesn't hold up.  Without Welker they don't even get to those games.

     



    I blame branch and Hernandez in the Super Bowl too.  They both dropped catchable Passes. 

     
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