All in for 2013!

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In a results oriented business like the NFL, being the winningest organization is all the results you need.

    You can't simultaneously be good and not good at the same time and winning a Super Bowl is hard, there's a fair amount of luck involved.  Spoiled and entitled is how you sound, ask a Brown's fan.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    Context is important.  Has BB had his share of busts?  Of course.  But I think the Ozzie Newsome record is helpful in understanding that not every draft choice by a very good GM will be a winner.  

    BB's record in recent years in drafting DBs and WRs hasn't been very good.  OK, acknowledged.  But the team has contended every year.  That's more than most of the teams in the league can say.  Is this due to Brady's performance in the regular season?  In large measure yes but it is very rare to see a team win in this league without excellence at the QB position.

    At the close of the 2011 season the Pats went to the SB.  At the close of the 2012 season they went to the AFCCG.  In the case of the former that is better than 30 other teams.  In the case of the latter it is better than 28 other teams.  

    Am I happy they didn't win the SB this year or last?  Of course not.  Do I think major changes are in order in either the team make up or how the team is run?  No I do not.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    I think the GM will do that. His MEDIOCRE team that he has built around Brady needs emergency surgery. His actions of last year show his sense of desperation. Unfortunatly the moves didn't really work out. Let's pray he gets lucky because purely on skill, he hasn't got it done.

     

    Both sides of the ball have paper thin functionality. Without Gronk the offense is well apt to be castrated against good teams as the running game withers and the receivers too often drop the groceries if they can even manage to get open. Without Talib the D reverts to the mickey mouse club that gives up real estate like France in 1940.

    At the very least for offense he needs a WR who can make the sideline and the deep ball threats. At the very least he needs a crackerjack CB to stabilize the secondary that can stay on the field. More than that would be better.

     

     

     



    It's the truth, isn't it?

     


    Here Baltimore spent to the cap and are headed into "salary cap hell". Yet they were able to lose their starting corner and survive. They were able to have two of their best front seven players play nowhere near 100% and not miss a beat. They draft low every year (just like us) and yet you sit there and watch these recievers they have run around out there like they were shot out of cannons...catching everything within 7 yards of them. They roll out this second string running back and he plays the way our second round selection runner only dreams of.

    Something tells me we would of looked like that if we had not botched free agency the last three years. It's almost as if we approached free agency like it was a disease - any name player in his prime was going to infect and kill us all!! Scary...stay away from them! Instead let's sign cheap backups, nobody's and huge character risks (because they are cheap...Haynesworth, Ocho). With the millions and millions in cap space that we had saved up over the years, we ended up with four decent players Lloyd (who may get cut), Carter (who couldn't last past November and got three of his eight sacks in one game), Anderson (who was a one trick poney that wanted to get paid...and did elsewhere) and Brian Waters (who went home and sulked after we wouldn't pay him more).

    Now out of those four guys, three of them didn't last for more than a season. And it's very likely that one of them (Lloyd) may get cut this spring.

     



    this has been my thinking exactty top to bottom. 

    look at balt, o line, d line, wrs, dbs better than pats, ozzie has done a better job than bb (and bb has handicapped himself with josh as oc verses top oc).

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    I think the GM will do that. His MEDIOCRE team that he has built around Brady needs emergency surgery. His actions of last year show his sense of desperation. Unfortunatly the moves didn't really work out. Let's pray he gets lucky because purely on skill, he hasn't got it done.

     

    Both sides of the ball have paper thin functionality. Without Gronk the offense is well apt to be castrated against good teams as the running game withers and the receivers too often drop the groceries if they can even manage to get open. Without Talib the D reverts to the mickey mouse club that gives up real estate like France in 1940.

    At the very least for offense he needs a WR who can make the sideline and the deep ball threats. At the very least he needs a crackerjack CB to stabilize the secondary that can stay on the field. More than that would be better.

     

     

     



    It's the truth, isn't it?

     


    Here Baltimore spent to the cap and are headed into "salary cap hell". Yet they were able to lose their starting corner and survive. They were able to have two of their best front seven players play nowhere near 100% and not miss a beat. They draft low every year (just like us) and yet you sit there and watch these recievers they have run around out there like they were shot out of cannons...catching everything within 7 yards of them. They roll out this second string running back and he plays the way our second round selection runner only dreams of.

    Something tells me we would of looked like that if we had not botched free agency the last three years. It's almost as if we approached free agency like it was a disease - any name player in his prime was going to infect and kill us all!! Scary...stay away from them! Instead let's sign cheap backups, nobody's and huge character risks (because they are cheap...Haynesworth, Ocho). With the millions and millions in cap space that we had saved up over the years, we ended up with four decent players Lloyd (who may get cut), Carter (who couldn't last past November and got three of his eight sacks in one game), Anderson (who was a one trick poney that wanted to get paid...and did elsewhere) and Brian Waters (who went home and sulked after we wouldn't pay him more).

    Now out of those four guys, three of them didn't last for more than a season. And it's very likely that one of them (Lloyd) may get cut this spring.

     

     




    No, it's not the truth.

     

    The truth is, Gronk got hurt and Brady looked lost. Meanwhile, Flacco threw 11 TDs and 0 INTs in the postseason, while Tom Brady sucked his thumb again.

    Baltimore gambled and won in their window of opportunity before Ray Ray retired and Reed, amongst others, left the team.

    Good for them. It worked.  But, their time is now over as is Pitt's.  NE, meanwhile is clearly going to be knocking on the door for years to come. It's up to Brady and how he leads the offense where it matters.

    THAT is the truth.

    Train is ready to roll, but we don't know if Brady is. He hasn't in YEARS. Last 3 AFC title games?

    5 TDs, 7 INTs

    THAT, right there, is all we need to know.  Joe Flacco is outplaying Tom Brady.  And don't even think for a second that it's about our D, because we saw him score on Denver, a D the media awkwardly pumped up ALL YEAR and we just saw him smoke SF's supposed vaunted D.

    Maybe if our own QB wasn't busy throwing INTs or making bad decisons, we can win a SB again.

    Enjoy reading the truth.




    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to mia76's comment:

    Baltimore was certainly brilliant and a juugernaut. unless you actually look at how they got in to the AFC championship - beautiful pass, but one of the worst defensive plays of all time to allow it to be completed. It takes luck to get to and win the SB and I say the Pats have been unlucky in the last two SBs - not that they were not 'good enough.'

    We have a chance almost every year, and I would take that over most teams boom/bust cap mentality. Baltimore got lucky and won a SB and they are now in cap hell. They could just as easily be watching Denver, SF, or the Pats raising the trophy from that hell. Jets are in cap hell without any hardware because they thought they were so close a couple of years ago and spent like crazy.

    I am not sure any GM is 'brilliant' - they all make mistakes in evaluating FAs and draft picks and spending big is no guarantee of success - in fact few teams that spend big are actually very good and the best teams and GMs tend to be pretty measured in their moves every year.



    other team got "lucky" = lament of losers

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to NOISE's comment:

    ALL IN!  No doubt about it !  Can't wait for NE PATS @ BALTIMORE Opening night!  (I'm sure that will be the opening game! How cannot it not be)....when we beat their a%s....Great home and road schedule too! wow...

    I'm hoping they have a off-season like they did in 07! when I felt the Pats were ALL IN that year in the moves they made....I'm not saying the pats don't make moves, they make plenty, but it's the quality of the talent they bring in, then just overloading a position in hoping one or two work out...

    I look at being 'All in' as re-signing Welker! Signing the likes of Mike Wallace and or A BOLDIN (wish they did this a couple years ago when he was a FA) & hope the TEs can finally stay healthy.....THEN focus on Defense, whether that is Talib or another big time cover corner of the likes.....I also think Special Teams is important. I know they tried Demps this past yr for kickoff returns, but got hurt. 

    Go Pats! 2013! 



    demps got redshirted, wallace wants the moon. boldin would have given us the sb this year if we had him, we need talib and a nother big corner in the draft, a pass ruhser and a big outside wr who can separate. we also need to improve the o line.  see the balt o line, they can run block and flaco has 15 seconds often. we lso need a cover lb. all that with 3 draft picks before rd 7 and18 mil purportedly to spend in fa, including on our own guys (welker may be the MOST expendable of our top 3, but at least the 2nd most).

    a tall order.

    and if we move bakc in draft, were likely to end up with more jags. we have plenty of youth. we dont need a ton of jag young players. 3 studs and a few free agents and we can improve, provided josh learns how to call a game against a better defense (something he hasnt done in years).

    the stubborness in not hiring top tier coaches and coordinators is infinite.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    He drafted Asante Samuel and Deion Branch, both of whom won Super Bowl rings with us and have gone on to very impressive careers.

    I just explained that away.

    The draft at best is a crapshoot and your only an "expert" on Navarro Bowman years later in hindsight.

     




     

    No actually I knew of him and Jenning before they were drafted but in BBs defense , atleast Jackson looked the part and he got a recommendation from Meyers so cant fault him too much. It is what it is. Noone saying BB has to be perfect but you dont have to explain away why he hasnt been better. I thought he spent too much time in Florida that offseason and didnt scout OTHER talent. Ive never heard of a guy drafting so many players from one system due to his buddy running it. I mean how many BAD endorsements is coach gonna give knowing the more of his players go pro, the more he gets in recruiting. Its simple things like this that are never discussed. Im just saying, it aint always "BB piks late, u get whats left"  Sometimes it actuall wrong or bad decisions made and people Act like BB is above making the wrong choice and he is not.



    " I mean how many BAD endorsements is coach gonna give knowing the more of his players go pro, the more he gets in recruiting"

    been thinking this for years.

    bb, simialr to his valuing attitude, maturity and likability over talent on occasions, often prefers a player from a buddy's team that his buddy coached and presumable knows, over a more talented player he doesnt have the inside scoop on from the coach. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    I got U babe..... 
    BB the GM (until last yrs draft and pick up of Talib) has been subpar at best. One can look at the 2009 season and only shake their heads.....

    Remember we lost, Bruschi, Harrison and traded Seymour and we replaced them with ????

    ^ #23: New England → Baltimore (D). New England traded its first-round selection (23rd overall, used to select Michael Oher) to Baltimore for first- and fifth-round selections (26th overall, traded to Green Bay, who selected Clay Matthews; and 162nd overall, traded to Green Bay, who selected Jamon Meredith).[source 6]

    ^ #26 New England → Green Bay (D). New England traded the first-round selection it acquired from Baltimore (26th overall, used to select Clay Matthews) and a fifth-round selection (162nd overall) to Green Bay for a second-round selection (41st overall, used to select Darius Butler) and two third-round selections (73rd overall, traded to Jacksonville, who selected Derek Cox; and 83rd overall, used to select Brandon Tate).[source 7]

    ^ #34: Kansas City → New England (PD). Kansas City traded this selection (34th overall) to New England for Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel.[source 10]  (Patrick Chung)

    ^ #40: Oakland → New England (D). Oakland traded this selection (40th overall, used to select Ron Brace) to New England for second-, fourth- and sixth-round selections (47th, 124th, 199th overall, respectively).[source 12]

    ^ #73: New England → Jacksonville (D). New England traded this selection to Jacksonville for its 2010 second-round selection and 2009 seventh-round selection (232nd overall, used to select Julian Edelman).

    ^ #89: New England → Tennessee (D). New England traded this selection (used to select Jared Cook) to Tennessee for its 2010 second-round selection.

    2009 New England Patriots Draft Selections RoundOverallPlayerPositionCollege 2 [65] 34 Pat Chung Safety Oregon 2 [66] 40 Ron Brace Defensive tackle Boston College 2 [67] 41 Darius Butler Cornerback Connecticut 2 58 Sebastian Vollmer Offensive tackle Houston 3 [67] 83 Brandon Tate Wide receiver North Carolina 3 97 Tyrone McKenzie Linebacker South Florida 4 [68] 123 Rich Ohrnberger Offensive guard Penn State 5 170 George Bussey Offensive guard Louisville 6 [68] 198 Jake Ingram Long snapper Hawaii 6 207 Myron Pryor Defensive tackle Kentucky 7 [69] 232 Julian Edelman Wide receiver Kent State 7 234 Darryl Richard Defensive tackle Georgia Tech

    We then proceeded in 2010 to trade pick 22 (Deymarius Thomas) for 24 which we traded to Dallas (Dez Bryant) for 27 and took Devin McCourty.....Me done thinks the MASTER done outhinks himself at times!!!



    at times? frequently enough to spurn super bowl wins in last ten years. and to be sure we didnt get there and win, he hired josh and gave him free reign.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    I think the GM will do that. His MEDIOCRE team that he has built around Brady needs emergency surgery. His actions of last year show his sense of desperation. Unfortunatly the moves didn't really work out. Let's pray he gets lucky because purely on skill, he hasn't got it done.

     

    Both sides of the ball have paper thin functionality. Without Gronk the offense is well apt to be castrated against good teams as the running game withers and the receivers too often drop the groceries if they can even manage to get open. Without Talib the D reverts to the mickey mouse club that gives up real estate like France in 1940.

    At the very least for offense he needs a WR who can make the sideline and the deep ball threats. At the very least he needs a crackerjack CB to stabilize the secondary that can stay on the field. More than that would be better.

     

     

     



    It's the truth, isn't it?

     


    Here Baltimore spent to the cap and are headed into "salary cap hell". Yet they were able to lose their starting corner and survive. They were able to have two of their best front seven players play nowhere near 100% and not miss a beat. They draft low every year (just like us) and yet you sit there and watch these recievers they have run around out there like they were shot out of cannons...catching everything within 7 yards of them. They roll out this second string running back and he plays the way our second round selection runner only dreams of.

    Something tells me we would of looked like that if we had not botched free agency the last three years. It's almost as if we approached free agency like it was a disease - any name player in his prime was going to infect and kill us all!! Scary...stay away from them! Instead let's sign cheap backups, nobody's and huge character risks (because they are cheap...Haynesworth, Ocho). With the millions and millions in cap space that we had saved up over the years, we ended up with four decent players Lloyd (who may get cut), Carter (who couldn't last past November and got three of his eight sacks in one game), Anderson (who was a one trick poney that wanted to get paid...and did elsewhere) and Brian Waters (who went home and sulked after we wouldn't pay him more).

    Now out of those four guys, three of them didn't last for more than a season. And it's very likely that one of them (Lloyd) may get cut this spring.

     

     




    I have no problem with trading down. But you better damned well have a plan on who you think you can get and you had better be right that they are a major contributor. This hasn't happened with BB much at all to say the least.

     

    How in the hell can a person possibly miss on so many defenders year after year after year? Even Millen's record looks not so bad when compared to that aspect of BB's team building.

    Meriweather, Wheatley, Chung, Brace, Butler, McCourty, Cunningham, Spikes, Dowling, Jones, Hightower and Wilson; 12 second round or higher picks for D, over an entire defense worth of players in 6 years; and can a one of them be called a "standout" player? ONE?

    How can you possibly blow something so badly? A blind monkey could do better by accident. And even in the lower rounds you can sometimes find a special player but BB hasn't found one for D except maybe Dennard.

    And his FA tactic is obvious. Instead of investing in a true elite player and taking his chances on the guy succeeding, he signs several lower cost hope and a prayer guys and prays they perform. That way he doesn't take the heat when they fail because he spread out the money and nothing sticks out like a sore thumb.

    It appears BB's tactic with team building is quantity over quality and just hope for luck. He used up all his luck the day he drafted Brady.

    And people wonder why we fall just short and want to blame Brady because he can't carry this MEDIOCRE team on his back through the playoffs as well as the season. It's obvious as to why. Too many poor decisions by the GM.

     

     



    re: "It appears BB's tactic with team building is quantity over quality and just hope for luck. He used up all his luck the day he drafted Brady."

     

    re:"quantity over quality "

    this  IS bb in a nutshell. till last draft.

    re: "And people wonder why we fall just short and want to blame Brady because he can't carry this MEDIOCRE team on his back through the playoffs as well as the season. It's obvious as to why. Too many poor decisions by the GM."

     

    this is spot on.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brad34. Show Brad34's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to leatherhelmet's comment:

    This is after dumping Assante Samuel the year before.. So yes Brady hasn't played well in recent playoff memory but.... and a Beyonce sized Butt at that.... In 2 seasons we lost Samuel, Bruschi, Seymour, Harrrison, and Vrabel and BB the GM tried to replace them with duct tape believing his own "Defensive Guru" title......Hope the humble pie has him cooking with better ingredients in the future!!!


    I think this pretty much nails what the problem has been with the defense. Lost too many great players and too much experience at once. They are still recovering from it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    High draft picks (especially before the current CBA with its rookie salary scale) and big FA signings are high-risk, high-reward strategies.  If they pan out, they can make you a great team.  If they fail, they can lock you up for years in salary cap hell, limiting your ability to make necessary moves and improve your team. 

    Belichick's approach so far has been dictated by several facts. First, as a team that finishes high almost every year (and has also had to pay significant draft pick compensation for spygate and Belichick's own signing), pursuing the "draft-and-sign-stars" strategy has been less feasible for the Pats because we just don't have the best picks to work with. Given that, Belichick has taken a more conservative approach, which involves increasing the number of picks we have by trading down and keeping lots of cap space open to move mid-level free agents in and out.  He has signed a few big deals (Brady, Wilfork, Mankins), but mostly with players who are relatively safe because they've proven their value in his schemes already.  The rest of the roster is in constant transformation with different guys being brought in to fill needs; and the schemes employed each year are also constantly adjusted to match the available players. 

    This strategy has produced a contending team for over a decade--an unheard of feat and Belichick deserves credit for it.  But like any approach, there are trade offs, and the approach has its weakneses.  Most important, it tends to produce a team with a lot of players who are solid but not great.  And if enough "hidden gems" aren't found among the lower draft picks, there can be a lot of busts among those picks.  The best teams have lots of young players--not just because young guys are in peak condition, but because they tend to be cheaper than good veterans so you can have more of them on your team without running into cap problems.  If you fail to get enough good young players in the draft, though, you are forced to build through free agency which is very difficult given the cost of good free agents and the cap. Busts like Butler and Tate do hurt.  And while they are in part compensated for by the Vollmers of the world, we still have had real trouble building talent at certain positions and remain weak at those positions. 

    At this point, I think the Pats do need a few key quality signings (corner, WR, right tackle, and maybe safety, DL, and G/C) to get over the hump.  If I were Belichick, I'd go for quality more than quantity at a few key positions, then try to bring in lots of UDFAs, CFL players, and others to try to find some hidden gems to build depth.  But getting a top corner, WR, and right tackle (either in the draft or through free agency) all seem critical to me if we're going to contend for a Championship next year. 

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dwhite1220. Show dwhite1220's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I say go all in for Goldson, don't let this http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2013/01/goldson_reflect.html

    happen again.

    The kid is big, fast, hits like a ton of bricks and is young. I'm not saying he can cover like Ed Reed, but I've got to think Belichick would be able to maximize his talents or refine them like he did with Harrison. This guy made a play in the Super Bowl where I immediately thought...brake the bank for him...bring him here...he will change the defense. It was a running play and he got so low and attacked the ball carrier fast and aggresively - I don't think I've seen anyone do that here since Harrison. I watched Chung try - I watched Merriweather try, but they weren't big enough to do it. This guy is.

    If we can give Mayo 40 million and watch him go on to get blocked outside, not get to runners on the perimeter, lose guys in coverage and not beat blockers unless he's inside with Vince in front of him....we can get dangerous and spend 50 million on a safety, that we can cut in four years if it get's crazy. 

    Pats had a chance 2 years ago but he stayed with SF.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dwhite1220. Show dwhite1220's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    This thread has devolved into another anti-Belichick screed...

    It is impossible to field a winning team every year, be in the Super Bowl or one game from it, and also be a bad GM.      Impossible.

    Anyone saying this is no better than the jackazzs who say Brady is no good.  Show me a GM that hits on as many draft picks and undrafted free agents with the continued success of Belichick nevermind better than him?  You can't, so don't bother.

    You all realize that Belichick is picking from the bottom of the draft right, that's because he wins.  Nobody hits on all their picks except the experts here who make their picks two years in hindsight.  

    What this team needs is a defensive tackle from the top of the 1st round in the next draft because big three hundred pound tackles can't be found outside the first round.  "All in" in New England means packaging some picks to move up in the 1st round which is what BB did last year with Jones and Hightower, both of whom will be solid players for years to come barring injury. 

    Baltimore picks from the bottom every year and they do well. FA's have been excellant and John Harbaugh may be a better coach than BB at this time.BB was out coached in the AFC game weith out a doubt. BB coached scared!!


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to dwhite1220's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    This thread has devolved into another anti-Belichick screed...

    It is impossible to field a winning team every year, be in the Super Bowl or one game from it, and also be a bad GM.      Impossible.

    Anyone saying this is no better than the jackazzs who say Brady is no good.  Show me a GM that hits on as many draft picks and undrafted free agents with the continued success of Belichick nevermind better than him?  You can't, so don't bother.

    You all realize that Belichick is picking from the bottom of the draft right, that's because he wins.  Nobody hits on all their picks except the experts here who make their picks two years in hindsight.  

    What this team needs is a defensive tackle from the top of the 1st round in the next draft because big three hundred pound tackles can't be found outside the first round.  "All in" in New England means packaging some picks to move up in the 1st round which is what BB did last year with Jones and Hightower, both of whom will be solid players for years to come barring injury. 

     

    Baltimore picks from the bottom every year and they do well. FA's have been excellant and John Harbaugh may be a better coach than BB at this time.BB was out coached in the AFC game weith out a doubt. BB coached scared!!


     




    I'm still amazed that more people didnt notice this and rather made a lazy, casual fan assesment of Brady S*cking!  If you re-watch the game you will see Brady doing his job and everyone around him failing. BB even said HE wanted Brady to spike the ball and not call timeout and Brady still gets slammed for it. Brady=Beyonce now....  lol

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    You don't "luck" your way into a Super Bowl contender every year for over a decade.  That's dumb.

    Also I didn't mention Damien Woody, Ridley or the undrafted guys like Bolden, Francis we currently have or the Randall Gay's who, while they weren't all pro players helped us win a ring.  

    It's impossible to field one of the league's best teams, be the model franchise that others emulate and have our own entitled fans say he is a bad GM.  It's as nonsensical as the Brady bashers.




    Woody was not a BB pick.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Context is important.  Has BB had his share of busts?  Of course.  But I think the Ozzie Newsome record is helpful in understanding that not every draft choice by a very good GM will be a winner.  

    BB's record in recent years in drafting DBs and WRs hasn't been very good.  OK, acknowledged.  But the team has contended every year.  That's more than most of the teams in the league can say.  Is this due to Brady's performance in the regular season?  In large measure yes but it is very rare to see a team win in this league without excellence at the QB position.

    At the close of the 2011 season the Pats went to the SB.  At the close of the 2012 season they went to the AFCCG.  In the case of the former that is better than 30 other teams.  In the case of the latter it is better than 28 other teams.  

    Am I happy they didn't win the SB this year or last?  Of course not.  Do I think major changes are in order in either the team make up or how the team is run?  No I do not.



    What they have accomplished in the last few years could have been matched by the jets or fish if they had Brady and we had whatever they have.


    Thus, the team BB has built around Brady is... MEDIOCRE.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

     

    In 2010, BB started 4 rookies on D, 2 on offense and it was beyond clear going into the lockout what the approach was.

     

     

     



    Of course he started rookies on D in 2010 dumbkoff. He had just blown SEVEN high draft picks on defense in the previous 3 years!

    Meriweather, Crable, Wheatley, McKenzie, Butler, Brace and Chung.

    Junior, please at least put up a fight here. Debating you on BB's great team building is like shooting fish in a barrel.

     

     




    Wow, I forgot about some of those names...painfull to see. I think it's funny how Rusty goes on and on about how San Fran has  built their defense upon ten years of their top ten picks...very far from the truth. In fact the only top ten pick of theirs is Aldon Smith. Bowman was a third rounder. Justin Smith was a free agent signing. Dashon Goldson was a fourth round pick. Donte Wittner was a free agent signing. Ahmad Brooks was a free agent signing and a guy that went in the supplemental draft to Cincy. The only guy that was near a "top ten pick" was the best middle linebacker in the NFL, Patrick Willis at 11. San FRan is a perfect example of a defense built through multiple resources available to any team...draft, free agency, trades. And take a look at Baltimore's defense - now there's a defense built on the draft and none of them were "top ten picks".

     

    Aside from the draft busts you mention - the free agent busts are even worse...Haynesworth, Gregory, Springs, Bodden, Fenene, Ellis, Banta Cain...we spent millions on these dopes...they did nothing to help. What are the total contract values in those names? 50 million? How much of that fifty million worked out for us? None. Money and resources wasted.

     




    BB has just not gotten it done as GM. It's not that he has been terrible (except on D picks and some real dog FAs) but average or above average means you have an 8-8 team. Brady and no other stud QB in the division mitigates that but he alone can't carry that mediocrity to the promised land.

     

     

    More and more people are seeing what a few of us have seen for years. Sad but true. The genius coach is sure as hell not a genius GM.

    The party is just about over. I'm afraid unless BB gets very lucky we won't see a Lombardi before Brady hangs them up. Kraft shows no signs of bringing in somebody who can make better personnel decisions. And I doubt BB's ego would put up with that either.

    Let's hope for a miracle.

     




     

    Its definately time for BB to get a draft consultant in regards to WRs and DBs. 2 positions that he has def. failed at and it has nothing to do with WHERE we were drafting because I can site a player for everyone drafted that I had on my list that went AFTER we picked. The most glaring being Jackons over Jennings that set us back. More recently we picked Taylor Price over Navarro Bowman....lol

     

    Explain that away Wozzy....



    What are you even talking about? I can't say that you have done this before because I have no idea but people often want to talk out both sides of their face. Half the time they complain that we take the character guy over the pure talent. Well the Pats took the better talent athlete. Let's not have revistionist history here. I do not know too many people who were not psyched about drafting Jackson "at the time". I was! He was a beast. I had no idea he was lazy. Which is what came out WAY later via a Troy Brown interview. He aparently did not want to put in thw work but on pure talent and ability alone you would never have questioned that pick "at the time". He was big, fast, strong, and never dropped a thing. People can't have it both ways. Can't complain we do not go for the talented guys then cry about it when they turn out to not have been worth the gamble on the character concerns.

    Another thing that is an absolute joke that people do AND combine it with the argument trait I spoke of above is talking about missing on a player in the 3rd round or later that ends up being a stud. Picking Tom Brady was pure luck but somehow not picking Bowman over Price was some sort of egregious mistake. Every other team in the league passed on Bowman 3 times practically. If they thought he'd play like he apparently has then he would have gone in the 1st not the 3rd. The team picking him got as lucky as the Pats did picking Brady. Also, you would not even make that argument if the Pats are looking for a WR in that range they are not looking for a LB in that spot. You would need to go look for some other WR that got picked after price who is some sort of stud. Then you would still be left with the idea that they got lucky because if everyone knew he was a stud he would not be going at the "end" of the 3rd round.

    Lastly everyone always wants to assume that because a player plays well for some other team in their system and role that the same player would have exactly the same success playing in the patriots system and role he would be given by the team. It does NOT work that way.

    Your arguments are misguided and off base at best. Most people do NOT add any context to everything going on in an organization at the time a decision is made on a player. What systems they are running, who is currently on the roster, what is the cap/mponey situation of the players on the roster. Is a particular position group aging. How many players are still on the board for the pistion group you are looking to add to as well as what is the disparity to your own organizational rankings of those remaining players. Time to impact of drafting a particular player. Etc, etc.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Woody was not a BB pick.



    You're correct, but you've also cleverly evaded my question about your blanket statement.  

    If it's easy to be successful with a hall of fame QB, then why did Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton, statistically the two best QB's to ever play the game never win a championship.  Until you can answer that there is no moving forward with that arguement.  And don't tell me it's because Don Shula and Norm Van Brocklin couldn't coach...

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    What are you even talking about? I can't say that you have done this before because I have no idea but people often want to talk out both sides of their face. Half the time they complain that we take the character guy over the pure talent. Well the Pats took the better talent athlete. Let's not have revistionist history here. I do not know too many people who were not psyched about drafting Jackson "at the time". I was! He was a beast. I had no idea he was lazy. Which is what came out WAY later via a Troy Brown interview. He aparently did not want to put in thw work but on pure talent and ability alone you would never have questioned that pick "at the time". He was big, fast, strong, and never dropped a thing. People can't have it both ways. Can't complain we do not go for the talented guys then cry about it when they turn out to not have been worth the gamble on the character concerns.

    Another thing that is an absolute joke that people do AND combine it with the argument trait I spoke of above is talking about missing on a player in the 3rd round or later that ends up being a stud. Picking Tom Brady was pure luck but somehow not picking Bowman over Price was some sort of egregious mistake. Every other team in the league passed on Bowman 3 times practically. If they thought he'd play like he apparently has then he would have gone in the 1st not the 3rd. The team picking him got as lucky as the Pats did picking Brady. Also, you would not even make that argument if the Pats are looking for a WR in that range they are not looking for a LB in that spot. You would need to go look for some other WR that got picked after price who is some sort of stud. Then you would still be left with the idea that they got lucky because if everyone knew he was a stud he would not be going at the "end" of the 3rd round.

    Lastly everyone always wants to assume that because a player plays well for some other team in their system and role that the same player would have exactly the same success playing in the patriots system and role he would be given by the team. It does NOT work that way.

    Your arguments are misguided and off base at best. Most people do NOT add any context to everything going on in an organization at the time a decision is made on a player. What systems they are running, who is currently on the roster, what is the cap/mponey situation of the players on the roster. Is a particular position group aging. How many players are still on the board for the pistion group you are looking to add to as well as what is the disparity to your own organizational rankings of those remaining players. Time to impact of drafting a particular player. Etc, etc.



    Good post.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: All in for 2013!

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In summary, the morons on this threare are:  Triple OG, Babe, BdBreu and anyone who follows their rhetoric.

    It's the same anti-BB teenagers or adults who act like teenagers who share the shame continuous premise, which is blame BB at every turn, in order to make excuses for Tom Brady's horrendous last 3 AFC title games at home, whether it be in 2007 or in 2012 or obviously mediocre postseasons snce 2005.

    The last game where Brady played above and beyond in a tought situation in the postseason?

    2006 in SD.

    TRUTH HURTS



    Jeesuz, will you stop stepping on every post with the name calling, I'm trying to get Babe to answer the question above and you're providing him ample reason to ignore it.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share