All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Guys! Guys! Listen, there is nothing wrong with our defense. When Bill Belichick mails me the coach's tape after the game I analyze the secondary - zone, man, depths, press, league current strategies, new rule changes, the Polian effect, playing on, playing off - you know, who's doing what. This is why I'm such an expert on these things. Don't get frustrated (I know that everyone at home has to watch what they show on tv - line of scrimmage - qb play, etc.) That's why I know so much about pass defense, the blitz, and our vaunted third down defense!!

    Don't you all feel better now silly pants?

    Thank you,
    Rusty
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    LMAO!

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Patsman3 Pepper Johnson didnt say he was happy with the entire D he said he was happy with the D line and the pass rush because they are doing exactly what they have been asked to do. They just dont get many sacks and if you remember the championship years we never had a lot of sacks but we always had someone around the QB which is what they have been doing if you look at the tape. Im not saying they will be the best D in football but I am saying they can win it all with this D. They just need to show up to play when it counts.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    Well I am really confused then MVP.  As we saw in the first exhibition game and from all we heard from the team, they were going to be more aggressive and go after the QB.  The whole debate about Haynesworth (outside the char) issue was he didnt like to play read and react defense, he liked to rush the passer.  If they don't want the D-line getting after the QB why sign Ellis, Carter and Anderson???  all who are better at rushing the passer then playing the run.

    If there going to play this passive d/bend don't break again this year, I don't see a bright future come play-off time.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]I dont understand what is confusing you? Are you saying that only if they get sacks are they getting after the QB? Only if they get sacks are they rushing the passer? Only if they gets sacks are they getting after it? Cause from the games I have watched and re watched it looks like they get after it on every play. Those guys they brought in are not going to get you 15 sacks per player and if that is what you thought then my guess is you have not been a fan very long cause that is not how they play in NE. Whether its a 3-4 or a 4-3 that is not their goal in the game. Its not there goals to get the sack, if they get it great but the goal is to get in the QB's face and force a bad throw and work hard on every down and play the run and THEY DO ALL OF THAT. Which is why their coach likes what they are doing and the fans who only look for the sack stat think they are not doing their job. Would you say the Packers have a good defense? Cause last time I checked they are only a hand full of bad plays away from being just as bad if not worse then NE.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    I think he is referring to the idea posted that NE isn't really interested in getting after the QB.

    I wouldn't buy that if you gave me the money to buy it. You don't overhaul your front seven, getting four guys that are known for being pass rushers, because you aren't interested in getting after the QB.

    re: sacks being misleading. That is true. They can be. Sometimes pressure manifests itself in holding calls, TFLs, INTs, PDs, and incompletions, etc. But I think we can agree that the first place sack team and the last place sack team would be separated by a large margin. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]I dont understand what is confusing you? Are you saying that only if they get sacks are they getting after the QB? Only if they get sacks are they rushing the passer? Only if they gets sacks are they getting after it? Cause from the games I have watched and re watched it looks like they get after it on every play. Those guys they brought in are not going to get you 15 sacks per player and if that is what you thought then my guess is you have not been a fan very long cause that is not how they play in NE. Whether its a 3-4 or a 4-3 that is not their goal in the game. Its not there goals to get the sack, if they get it great but the goal is to get in the QB's face and force a bad throw and work hard on every down and play the run and THEY DO ALL OF THAT. Which is why their coach likes what they are doing and the fans who only look for the sack stat think they are not doing their job. Would you say the Packers have a good defense? Cause last time I checked they are only a hand full of bad plays away from being just as bad if not worse then NE.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    Ok MVP then we will have to agree to disagree.  I do not see them getting after the QB.  I don't see lots of blitzes, stunts, etc.  All i see is 4 guys running right into the OL in front of them and hoping they can push them back.  I am not talking about sacks (thou i would love it).  I am talking about being aggressive and shooting gaps and getting in the backfield.  Hitting the QB and being disruptive.  Being aggresive and hitting recievers at the line of scrimmage.  This D is just to passive in my eyes.  Maybe i need glasses.

    Mike Riess was keeping track of how often they blitzed in the preason.  Anyone have the stats of how many plays the Pats have blitzed, rushed 5, 6, just 4 or 3?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : Ok MVP then we will have to agree to disagree.  I do not see them getting after the QB.  I don't see lots of blitzes, stunts, etc.  All i see is 4 guys running right into the OL in front of them and hoping they can push them back.  I am not talking about sacks (thou i would love it).  I am talking about being aggressive and shooting gaps and getting in the backfield.  Hitting the QB and being disruptive.  Being aggresive and hitting recievers at the line of scrimmage.  This D is just to passive in my eyes.  Maybe i need glasses. Mike Riess was keeping track of how often they blitzed in the preason.  Anyone have the stats of how many plays the Pats have blitzed, rushed 5, 6, just 4 or 3?
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

    "All i see is 4 guys running right into the OL in front of them and hoping they can push them back."

    pretty much

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : I think he is referring to the idea posted that NE isn't really interested in getting after the QB. I wouldn't buy that if you gave me the money to buy it. You don't overhaul your front seven, getting four guys that are known for being pass rushers, because you aren't interested in getting after the QB. re: sacks being misleading. That is true. They can be. Sometimes pressure manifests itself in holding calls, TFLs, INTs, PDs, and incompletions, etc. But I think we can agree that the first place sack team and the last place sack team would be separated by a large margin. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    We certainly are not interested in getting to the Qb so far this season. We have consistently rushed 3-4 d-linemen, almost never bringing a LB. I can't find any statistical evidence to better portray this, but I would bet we are dead last in the league at sending "extra" rushers.

    This is not to say we don't care about getting to the QB, and to your point, I think BB went out and got the 4-3 type guys who have a history of applying pressure without help. This would fit the idea to pressure the QB with minimal personnel, while flooding the field with maximum coverage and awaiting desperate QB mistakes.

    I think BB came to the realization that our best defense may in fact be a great offense.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Remember, if you send six or seven guys at the QB, you're going to be reducing the guys in coverage by two or three. This is a group that already struggles in coverage with seven back.  How is it going to do when you take two or three of those guys out of coverage and send them upfield toward the QB?  If they get to the QB before the QB can hit the outlet receiver great. But if they don't get there, they're going to give up some big plays.  From what I've seen over the years, BB just doesn't like to take those kinds of risks very often. Not that he won't blitz ocassionally--he's just not going to do it often.  And with mediocre pass rushers and mediocre coverage guys maybe it's more sensible to play conservative schemes rather than to rely on defensive techniques that require exceptional talent and skills (i.e., great pass rushing skills and great man coverage skills). 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : I could say the exact same thing about you. You can't even be humble when embarrassed by the Oakland game or when Pepper Johnson slaps you pink hats down yesterday. You spend all week telling us we can;t run the ball and then the Oakland game happens. Pathetic. LMAO Yeah, you know more than BB and Pepper Johnson, Pinkie.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I'm so embarrassed by the Oakland game? Lmao! Why, because we ran the ball? Oh my god...did you think of this new ground breaking concept? Run the football? Why didn't I think of that? Amazing!! Truly is. Dufus, if I remember you were blaming our loses on the offense (play calling and such). I was blaming it on the defense (lack of pressure, 3rd down efficiency).

    See the problem with blaming the offense is this........we're probably the best offense in the NFL...we are close to breaking a record regarding consecutive games with 30 points or more per game. We score lots of points, which last time I checked is how you win a game of football - team with more points win. Simple, correct? So if our offense scores lots and lots of points, they're not the problem. Is this brilliant or what?

    Now lets take a look at our defense (you know that little piece that you think is not the problem). They're 20th in points allowed. They are giving up almost 500 yards of offense per game. Per game! They are ranked last or near dead last in almost every single meaningful defensive catergory. Even if they add 10 more teams to the league - we will still be near the bottom. So it's really not all that "scientific", one is ranked the BEST, one is ranked the WORST. Still hard to understand? Maybe Belichick needs to put one of those cool little sticky notes to the coach's tape to notify you of which unit you are watching.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Yes however when we were winning super bowls we did not have double digit sack type guys. If a few guys can rack up 5 or 6 a piece that will be fine and help us win but it wont be enough for the sack stat fans to stop their line of thinking. Its sack or go home with some fans and it gets old. New flash that is not how the Pats play D. I love seeing a sack and im sure they want more but that is not their goal.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]


     It's true that in 2003 and 2004 there were no double digit sackmasters on the Patriots. The team though was near the top in sacks for the season. In 2003 the Pats were one of only 8 teams to have more than 40 sacks (the Ravens led the league with 47 I believe). In 2004 the Pats had 45 sacks which was only 3 behind the league leader. While you are all correct that sacks are not the only signifier of pressure (zbellino put it best) they surely are one of the leading signifiers. Leading the league in TD passes and QBR does not necessarily means you were the best QB that year but it means you were probably one of the best ones.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush :  It's true that in 2003 and 2004 there were no double digit sackmasters on the Patriots. The team though was near the top in sacks for the season. In 2003 the Pats were one of only 8 teams to have more than 40 sacks (the Ravens led the league with 47 I believe). In 2004 the Pats had 45 sacks which was only 3 behind the league leader. While you are all correct that sacks are not the only signifier of pressure (zbellino put it best) they surely are one of the leading signifiers. Leading the league in TD passes and QBR does not necessarily means you were the best QB that year but it means you were probably one of the best ones.
    Posted by ccnsd[/QUOTE]
    So what you are saying is that a team that has sacks (or a lot of them) is a team that provides good pressure and if they have an outstanding offense might have a better chance to win a Super Bowl? It's funny how simple this is, yet many don't seem to comprehend this. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

     Obviously we have to be optomistic and hope when these guys get healthy they will be playing at a much higher level in December. Unfortunately there will be more injuries between now and then. During December the Pats will be playing three teams that are currently terrible (Colts, Broncos & Dolphins) and two others (Redskins, Bills) who I do not think are as good as their record currently indicates. I worry that the Pats defense will all of a sudden start looking good and playing well against the cream puffs and will revert back to normal, like in the playoffs last year. The offense did not play to it's true level while the defense unfortunately did last year against the Jets. While optomistic of improvement it seems that the defensive depth is really shallow this year. I can't believe that the loss of Haynesworth has been this crucial. 
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE] Obviously we have to be optomistic and hope when these guys get healthy they will be playing at a much higher level in December. Unfortunately there will be more injuries between now and then. During December the Pats will be playing three teams that are currently terrible (Colts, Broncos & Dolphins) and two others (Redskins, Bills) who I do not think are as good as their record currently indicates. I worry that the Pats defense will all of a sudden start looking good and playing well against the cream puffs and will revert back to normal, like in the playoffs last year. The offense did not play to it's true level while the defense unfortunately did last year against the Jets. While optomistic of improvement it seems that the defensive depth is really shallow this year. I can't believe that the loss of Haynesworth has been this crucial. 
    Posted by ccnsd[/QUOTE]


    crazy huh?
    another year of terrible defense. with all those accumulated picks.
    i do have some faith in dowling
    and if haynesworth miraculously plays the 2nd half of the year and into the playoffs like a demon, and the others come on, maybe we'll be a little better. we'll need some luck for sure.

    stat just came across:
    first four games pats have given up more yards than any team over 4 games in history, 1900 yards. uh...dont think anyone can explian that away.  hope bb goes to a more agressive strategy.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Jets are giving up 308 total yards a game

    The Pats are giving up 477.

    Something is gonna give this w/e....lets hope its not our "D"

    Sooner or later the offense is gonna be held to under 30 points and then we will see if our "D"  is good enough to win a game.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    So a good defense gets 40+ sacks a season.  How many defensive snaps are there a season?  1,000?  I would say what you do on the other 950 plays is more important.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]So a good defense gets 40+ sacks a season.  How many defensive snaps are there a season?  1,000?  I would say what you do on the other 950 plays is more important.
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    No for the Pats its more like 2,000. They can't stop anyone on 3rd down Cry
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Can we agree that forced turnovers and points scored are important also?  

    The pass rush will "magically" start to improve by week 6 when the D receives an injection of talent on the D line with Brace and Deadrick come off the PUP. And just like the argument regarding "offensive balance," myself and others will be vindicated as long as Wilfork and Haynesworth are healthy...

    At that point the Globe writers will write multiple articles about how important the D line is to a pass rush just as they're NOW writing column after column stressing the importance of offensive balance.  

    Tell me again why I don't have my own column?


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    The New England Patriots made history in the first four weeks of the 2011 season. Or perhaps more aptly, history was made against them.

    The Patriots have allowed 1,910 yards through four games. That's the most in NFL history through a team's first four games, according to the Elias Sports Bureau, breaking a mark of 1,894 allowed by the 2005 San Francisco 49ers.

    The 504 yards for the Oakland Raiders last week were the most the Patriots ever allowed in a win. That broke a mark set in Week 1 against the Dolphins (488 yards). All three of New England's wins rank among the top five in yardage allowed in a victory.

    New England is allowing 368.8 passing yards per game, 33 more than the next worst team. That's more than the total yards per game allowed by 20 teams.

    It's once again easy to point to a lackluster pass rush, which has combined for only six sacks. Andre Carter, Shawn Ellis and Albert Haynesworth were expected to add more push from the defensive line, but they've accounted for only half a sack.

    Just 3.4 percent of opposing passing plays have ended with a sack. Only the Bills (2.6 percent) have been worse. Yet, there's no great urgency to increase the pressure. The Patriots bring more than four pass rushers only 18.0 percent of the time, the third lowest rate in the league.

    Some blame can also be pointed at the secondary, where the Patriots have been susceptible to big plays. They've allowed 33 plays of 20 or more yards, most in the NFL and nearly twice the NFL average (17). Opposing quarterbacks are 11 for 22 for 354 yards on passes thrown over 20 yards

    So how have the Patriots succeeded despite all of the yards accumulated by opponents?

    1) Field position, a small, but not insignificant reason opponents rack up yards. The average starting field position against the Patriots is around the 21 yard line, the best in the NFL. That's about seven yards shy of the league average (28.2). The difference may seem small, but multiplied over the course of a game, it could account for 50-75 more yards that New England can afford to give up.

    2)
    Another key factor is when the yards were allowed. Of the 1,475 passing yards given up by the Patriots, 795 came when they were leading by more than a touchdown. That includes 277 passing yards allowed when up by 15 or more points. In other words, much of the damage done against New England came when the Patriots could afford it.

    With all of those yards, the situation could be far worse. "Bend but don't break" is an apt description (sound familiar?). In some cases, the Patriots have bent over backwards. But the defense has also stepped up in key situations.

    3) Turnovers. New England has forced three red zone turnovers, which leads the NFL. The Patriots could be in a far different place had those drives ended in touchdowns.

    The much-maligned pass defense has excelled in the red zone. Total QBR provides a comprehensive measure of a quarterback's effectiveness on a scale of 0 to 100.

    Outside the red zone, quarterbacks have combined for an 82.8 QBR against the Patriots, highest in the NFL. But in the red zone, they've thrown three interceptions and been sacked twice against New England. That's led to a 3.0 QBR against the Patriots in the red zone, the lowest of any pass defense.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Can we agree that forced turnovers and points scored are important also?   The pass rush will "magically" start to improve by week 6 when the D receives an injection of talent on the D line with Brace and Deadrick come off the PUP. And just like the argument regarding "offensive balance," myself and others will be vindicated as long as Wilfork and Haynesworth are healthy... At that point the Globe writers will write multiple articles about how important the D line is to a pass rush just as they're NOW writing column after column stressing the importance of offensive balance.   Tell me again why I don't have my own column?
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    I agree to a point, if all this happens they will be improved. I like Deadric, although his suspension at a crucial time last year worries me. How's he going to look coming off the pup? How's a guy like Brace going to look coming off the pup? I can't picture Brace being in shape, plus he's done really nothing since he's been drafted, except for give a you a couple of solid games last year.

    If Haynesworth and Wright come back 100% then I like our chances. Those are two guys that could make a guy like Carter or Ellis look good. These are the types of players we need and right now we don't have.   
     
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