All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Clearly this is a good defense that Bill Belichick has schemed to look bad coming out of the gates in September...he always does this. Yeah we are at or near last in yards allowed, sacks, yards per pass play, time of possesion, and 19 teams have allowed fewer points, but this is what he wants. He's trying to trick all of us. What he is doing is fooling the entire league to lure them into a false sense of security, it's all part of a larger picture - grand scheme if you will. What he then will do is unleash a feverish mass of tornado like defense on our first playoff opponent...just like the last two seasons. You're all just silly trolls.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Clearly this is a good defense that Bill Belichick has schemed to look bad coming out of the gates in September...he always does this. Yeah we are at or near last in yards allowed, sacks, yards per pass play, time of possesion, and 19 teams have allowed fewer points, but this is what he wants. He's trying to trick all of us. What he is doing is fooling the entire league to lure them into a false sense of security, it's all part of a larger picture - grand scheme if you will. What he then will do is unleash a feverish mass of tornado like defense on our first playoff opponent...just like the last two seasons. You're all just silly trolls.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    mturtle. Do you think rushing the passer is high on BB's list of priorities? Do you see a coach that is trying hard to get to the other teams Qb and is just failing miserably, or is it concievable that he does not value a "pass rush" in todays NFL as much as the media, or you and I do?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Leaving the stats aside (sacks, yards, points, whatever) and just watching this defense play. I do not have confidence that this defense is good enough (in both personel and how the currently scheme) to win a Super Bowl. That is my impression having watched them play and various other NFL game this season. We can sit here and regurgitate different statistics and argue over their validity, but just watching this team, the D does not pass the "eye test" of a championship caliber defense.

    It seems like anytime some one questions BB or his ability to win a game on defense it turns into name calling (trolls, irrational, etc.). I think it is completely fair for a fan to have lost some faith in BB since the Super Bowl loss.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoLongHarryTruman. Show SoLongHarryTruman's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : C'mon now, really?  Seriously?  I'm not buying this bs! Why rely so much on the Offense and TFB12? I know he's great and we have so many weapons on offense but turnovers happen and what if the opponent has a great game plan and shuts down the O, then what? Posted by BradyMossFan[/QUOTE]

    You play the hand you're dealt. If you've got the worlds best QB you build around that. As the Bills game showed, you can fall down. But, with TFB12, it doesn't happen often.

    Coach will pull this D together by the time its needed.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]I see what I want? no, if so I would see more sacks



    Awesome.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : mturtle. Do you think rushing the passer is high on BB's list of priorities? Do you see a coach that is trying hard to get to the other teams Qb and is just failing miserably, or is it concievable that he does not value a "pass rush" in todays NFL as much as the media, or you and I do?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    I do think he values a pass rush. I imagine he believes a pass rush needs to be synchronized with the secondary in order to stop teams passing games. I just think that unfortunately he doesn't have guys that can get to the passer right now. He must value the position or else he wouldn't of give Banta Cain a 8 million dollar contract or draft Crable and Cunningham.

    The guy is a brilliant coach and it's not like the guy doesn't know what a pass rusher is supposed to look like (he did coach Lawrenece Taylor), I think maybe perhaps he has not guessed right on where some of these pass rushers would end up being selected in the draft...and we missed out.

    I kind of envision it like this...We are sitting there at 22 (or whatever) - he sees that there is 4 guys that he likes at that spot - a trade is made to move back 8 or so spots (he banks on one of those 4 being there) and maybe one of them is, but it hasn't been the pass rusher. I think this has bitten him a bit, but he figures they got extra picks, a decent player and value. I also think he's wanted a guy or two in free agency, but the price has been too high or he'd have to give up too much to get him.   
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    It is early in the year and it definitely hard to tell which offenses and defenses are good and which are bad. However, if you have watch this team over the past few seasons the issues with the defense are recurring. Lack of pass rush, trouble covering downfield and difficulty getting off the field on third down are not things that suddenly popped up this year. They have been trends for a few seasons now.

    My bigger point is that it is completely fair to question BB's decisions with the team the personel and the schemes for both the offense and the defense. From 2001 to 2004 we were possibly the best team over a four year span in NFL history. In 2005 and 2006, the team was rebuilt with coaching and roster changes. In 2007, we saw this team turn from a balance (run vs pass on offense and defense) into a pass happy offensive powerhouse setting NFL records and racking up regular season wins with no new Lombardi trophies to show for it.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : Because we're dropping back and not scheming or sending safety blitzes. It's very vanilla and it's been this way since the Polian rules were introduced. It's true. You act like 2003 or 2004 is the same as 2011 and it's not.  And yes, we weren't at the top of the sack list every year. We were never known as a high sack producing team in a base 3-4 defense. The Colts much more so than us with Freeney and Mathis. Buffalo was #1 in 2004. Buffalo! That proves it's a bloated stat. Epic FAIL Without Bruschi used in sack situations in 2005 due to his stroke our sacks dipped from 45 to 33. This proves BB used our players differently. You don't always get pressure and sacks from DEs and OLBs, either. Learn football. If NE can end up over 40 sacks, that should be the goal. We had THE SAME sack totals in 2009 without your beloved Seymour and Vrabel. So as you can see, looking at a stat sheet, it doesn't tell the whole picture. We had 36 last year.  If you want to work for a bean counting company and look at bottom lines all day and be shortsighted, congratulations. The rest of us will watch the games.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    You love to write books of nonsense. You still haven't explained how having the 2nd most sacks in the league for a season = We've never had a high sack team here. Ever. LOL LOL LOL. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Look what the Ravens did to Sancheeze and the Jets with a pash rush Sunday night. They totally shut down the Jets O and darn near killed Sancheeze a few times.  They made the Jets O look foolish, that's how a defense is supposed to play, not making their offense have to carry the load.

    Now if you are going to tell me that BB is not going to go after Sancheeze like that and sacking the helpless Jets QB is not in the game plan then that is just plain foolish!!  If the Pats D does not get several sacks in this game against the Jets then there is seriously something wrong with BB and his defensive philosophy.  There is no reason to get in a high scoring shootout with the Jets just because we have TFB12 and because we can. 


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    What's with all the sacks addicts in this forum?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

     First of all the defense did not contain Oakland's run during the game. 160 yards at 6 ypc is not containing it. The Pats offense contained it when it scored right out of half time making it 24-10. The Raiders only ran it like 10 times in the second half.
     All is not good with the pass rush though. Sacks can be an overrated stat, Qb pressure is more than just sacks. Manning's interception to Sanders in the Colts game last year was caused by pressure. People here sometimes make me confused because one week the Pats defense is underrated because it got some sacks then the same person a week later says that sacks don't matter, therefore the defense is still good. If Bruschi says the defense is playing bad I believe him before i believe any of you.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Really? I've seen more pressure in a can of coke then what the DL has produced so far. When he limits the opposing QB to under 4s a play then I'd say that their pass rush has improved
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    love it eng.

    so how bad a coach is pepper?
    or is he just protecting players egos.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]No no no, the key to that entire interview was this, "I'm quite sure that the questions are from stats and not really detail and watching the game. I'm watching the guys do what we're asking them to do." As in a pass rush is not currently in our game plan. We send the fewest extra rushers in the league. We send 3-4 d-linemen at 5-6 o-linemen every game. It is time to accept that as of right now Bill Belichick does not think getting to the other teams QB is as important as using the offense to pressure the other teams defense and wait for the mistakes down field. We have shifted philosophy to the offense. We are drafting weapons for Brady, not D-linemen or edge rushers. it is not in our game plan. Look BB probably isn't always right but I think we are seeing another case where he is adapting to the NFL rules. Defense unfortunately might no longer win championships. Do we all think that if BB was really worried about a pass rush that he would consistently ignore drafting D-linemen and edge rushers to basically only draft CBs high in the draft? Do we think he is an idiot? Or is it possible he may in fact have a method to his madness? Might no longer be a aneed in todays NFL to draft Seymour,Warren and Wilfork in the 1st rd 3 out of 4 years.  Its been a long time since 1st-2nd rd defensive  draft picks have been a priority. Other then secondary. Welcome to the NFL 2010 version.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    true,
      "
    Might no longer be a aneed in todays NFL to draft Seymour,Warren and Wilfork in the 1st rd 3 out of 4 years.  Its been a long time since 1st-2nd rd defensive  draft picks have been a priority. Other then secondary."

    if that's his method, it's not working.
    worst pass defense in the league. 
    no one ever won a championship with theworst pass defense in the league


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Clearly this is a good defense that Bill Belichick has schemed to look bad coming out of the gates in September...he always does this. Yeah we are at or near last in yards allowed, sacks, yards per pass play, time of possesion, and 19 teams have allowed fewer points, but this is what he wants. He's trying to trick all of us. What he is doing is fooling the entire league to lure them into a false sense of security, it's all part of a larger picture - grand scheme if you will. What he then will do is unleash a feverish mass of tornado like defense on our first playoff opponent...just like the last two seasons. You're all just silly trolls.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    mthurl,
    thank you, thank you, thank you! i love it!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Clearly this is a good defense that Bill Belichick has schemed to look bad coming out of the gates in September...he always does this. Yeah we are at or near last in yards allowed, sacks, yards per pass play, time of possesion, and 19 teams have allowed fewer points, but this is what he wants. He's trying to trick all of us. What he is doing is fooling the entire league to lure them into a false sense of security, it's all part of a larger picture - grand scheme if you will. What he then will do is unleash a feverish mass of tornado like defense on our first playoff opponent...just like the last two seasons. You're all just silly trolls.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Please tell me you're joking. There is no way Belichick would gameplan his defense to be horrible at the risk of losing games. If your theory is correct, why didn't Belichick "unleash" his defense to stop the Bills on the last drive of that game?

    There is no way any coach in the NFL would purposely make his team look bad to lure the league into a sense of security. That's just idiotic. If the goal is to deceive other coaches so that, come playoffs, you'll surprise them with your actually-great defense, then you should be fired. You have to make sure you make it to the playoffs first, and you're jeopardizing that for the slight advantage of surprising one team in January.

    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. It's hard to do through text. But I really hope you are.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]What's with all the sacks addicts in this forum?
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    Some people just like sack ... lol.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    I think I got chucked at in the "worst Defense Ever"  thread because I said this team was a player away.

    They had decent pressure digits when Haynesworth was on the field. When he wasn't ... they didn't.

    The big problem for the defense this season has been cornerback play. McCourty had a rough go of it. Bodden has looked slow coming back. Ras-I played ok, then got injured. NE started the season playing a lot of man-to-man and cover 1. 

    They switched back to cover-2 last weekend and it paid immediate dividends for McCourty in particular who is much more effective with a safety behind him. Arrington didn't look good, but he is what he is .... a third or fourth corner, who tackles really well, and plays special teams.

    BB isn't stupid. He knew what he had last offseason. He watched the playoff games. He almost completely overhauled the defense to rectify it's failures. 

    He jettisoned Meriweather, Sanders, TBC, Warren (who is now back because of injuries) Butler, Wilhite, Moore. Then changed the entire defensive front, and grabbed Barret, Ihedigbo, Anderson, Carter and Haynesworth.

    The last four weeks the defense has looked about the same as it did last season. They had some better pressure, though, when everyone was healthy. But the amount of injuries they have played through puts too much noise into the equation to really figure out of BB has "fixed" the problem or not.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]I think I got chucked at in the "worst Defense Ever"  thread because I said this team was a player away. They had decent pressure digits when Haynesworth was on the field. When he wasn't ... they didn't. The big problem for the defense this season has been cornerback play. McCourty had a rough go of it. Bodden has looked slow coming back. Ras-I played ok, then got injured. NE started the season playing a lot of man-to-man and cover 1.  They switched back to cover-2 last weekend and it paid immediate dividends for McCourty in particular who is much more effective with a safety behind him. Arrington didn't look good, but he is what he is .... a third or fourth corner, who tackles really well, and plays special teams. BB isn't stupid. He knew what he had last offseason. He watched the playoff games. He almost completely overhauled the defense to rectify it's failures.  He jettisoned Meriweather, Sanders, TBC, Warren (who is now back because of injuries) Butler, Wilhite, Moore. Then changed the entire defensive front, and grabbed Barret, Ihedigbo, Anderson, Carter and Haynesworth. The last four weeks the defense has looked about the same as it did last season. They had some better pressure, though, when everyone was healthy. But the amount of injuries they have played through puts too much noise into the equation to really figure out of BB has "fixed" the problem or not.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]


    all good points. re the last one, question is will we have enough of our best players on the field to have a decent defense this year and especially in the playoffs.

    more to the point, why doesnt bb in the offseason (any offseason while brady is still here) get legit defensive players so this defense can even be middle of the pack, never mind good.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    To nobody in particular...

    It is true but overly simplistic to lay all the blame for defensive shortcomings on the new rules and Bill Polian, other things factor into our lack of pressure, mainly the use of personnel.

    Every time we make a stop on third down or at the goalline, there is a price to pay; miles put on defenders, sore knees, hurt backs etc...  

    Players particularly susceptible to injury, mainly defensive tackles, have been used sparingly and despite that, Albert is dinged up and Wright and Myron Pryor are already gone.  

    Also those big 300+ pound defensive tackles are limited when it comes to versatility, they typically only play a certain amount of defensive downs and play limited special teams.  We can only dress 53 men for a game so we'll never bring more one dimensional players than we absolutely have to.  

    BB is saving gas for the championship run, we make stops when we have to, use personnel in spurts, but we have a good enough offense to be frugal with our manpower.  Do you think it was coincidence we lost at Buffalo after losing two tackles back to back, then Haynesworth..?

    The defensive backfield is stellar, they've been handed a very difficult task, hold other teams out of the end zone, "bend don't break" despite the lack of pass rush up front.  Pepper Johnson isn't concerned because he knows what the defense is capable of when they put all their chips on the table.  

    Think big picture.

     
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    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]sml1210...  I didn't know our D line played in those games. This is why you're stooge. You think everyone should scheme exactly the same despite having players with different skill sets and playing teams with different offenses?  Any of those teams have a someone behind center as good as the Chargers or Bills do? I don't think any of them are even as good as Henne. Here's a clue genius. You blitz a team with a top QB and a receiver or 2 who knows what to do when a blitz is coming and that QB is going to burn you big time. Here's another clue clueless. The 4 teams you mention ONE the Cowboys ranks in the top ten in offense and they have one of the biggest choker QBs in football. We've already played 3 of the top ten offensive teams and beat 2 of them. And the Buffalo loss was Brady's doing.
    Posted by Evil2012[/QUOTE]

    His point, moron, was that OUR defense plays the way it does because of league rules. And thus, we can't expect anything better.

    Just an asinine comment, and an asinine response related thereto by you.

    And by the way, your defense just gave up 504 yards to the Oakland Raiders, that offensive powerhouse let by the immortal Jason Campbell. Do yourself a favor and actually think before you write.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    BB has never liked to blitz all that much (and I'm defining "blitz" as sending more than 4 rushers at the QB).  He prefers to send 3 or 4 rushers and get whatever pressure he can with those guys.  In my opinion, his defenses have always been designed more to stop the run and the deep play.  He doesn't attack the backfield a lot and he's willing to play a bit softer in the underneath zones as long as his guys are stout at the line of scrimmage and protect the deep part of the field.  Even as he goes to a 4-3, I haven't seen a big change in the basic concept.  I think BB would love to see more pressure from his DL and LBs--he's just not going to get that pressure by blitzing and stunting a lot.  That's the Ryan (both Rex and Buddy) approach  . . . attack, attack, attack . . . and hope to disrupt the play early before the offense can get to the unprotected parts of the field.  The attack style works well with great corners and good LBs and safeties.  If you don't have good guys in coverage, though, it leaves you very vulnerable to the big play. BB seems to prefer a more conservative approach that forces the opposing offense to execute consistently in the short passing game--something that's not all that easy on long drives. 


     
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    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush


    Given that Master Hoodie doesn't like to blitz all that much and wants his LB's and DB's to play multi-looks in the secondary, it places even MORE importance for the Pats to obtain real and talented Pass Rushers in the draft...they haven't been able to get any legitimate, young, talented pass rushers for years, and it really shows. Other teams get them, we need to get a couple.

    Master Hoodie seems to have a fetish of not selecting one.....it's finally having a negative impact. I used to be in the "BB can do no wrong club", but next years draft has to be a time where they grab a couple of bona-fide pass rushers, even if they have to package a couple of high draft picks to do so...

    If Atlanta can do likewise to grab Julio Jones (and that move has nothing to do with how Atlanta is playing right now!), so can we make a similar move for a pass rusher!. Afterall, how many drafted guys will likely make the team next year?
     
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