All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]BB has never liked to blitz all that much (and I'm defining "blitz" as sending more than 4 rushers at the QB).  He prefers to send 3 or 4 rushers and get whatever pressure he can with those guys.  In my opinion, his defenses have always been designed more to stop the run and the deep play.  He doesn't attack the backfield a lot and he's willing to play a bit softer in the underneath zones as long as his guys are stout at the line of scrimmage and protect the deep part of the field.  Even as he goes to a 4-3, I haven't seen a big change in the basic concept.  I think BB would love to see more pressure from his DL and LBs--he's just not going to get that pressure by blitzing and stunting a lot.  That's the Ryan (both Rex and Buddy) approach  . . . attack, attack, attack . . . and hope to disrupt the play early before the offense can get to the unprotected parts of the field.  The attack style works well with great corners and good LBs and safeties.  If you don't have good guys in coverage, though, it leaves you very vulnerable to the big play. BB seems to prefer a more conservative approach that forces the opposing offense to execute consistently in the short passing game--something that's not all that easy on long drives. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Yeah. Usually coaches define "blitz" as when you send more pass rushers than the opponent has blockers -- so six or more. At least in classic terminology.

    Still NE sends send four men almost every down this season. The number of resources on defense dedicated to attacking the QB have increased for certain this season as a natural upshot of switching to 43. There are very few plays where they are only sending three.

    They were "attacking" more in the first three games. But they seemed to roll back those changes in game four, and by and large, looked a little better for playing more cover-2 and zone. At least better than they did against Buffalo.

    When Haynesworth, Ras-I, etc come back ... I wonder if we will see more of the cover-1 defense they were playing with in preseason and then in the first few games?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    When we play more 4-3 this is true, but playing the Bills for instance, we played a lot of 3-3-5 with only 3 lineman rushing,.....this is why Fitzy went off. When we send 4, its  not much better. with us its either all or nothing....when we rush 4 or 5, the qb just hits the open guy....when we bring 6 or 7, the ball is coming out hot and most likely an errant throw
     
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    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : true,   " Might no longer be a aneed in todays NFL to draft Seymour,Warren and Wilfork in the 1st rd 3 out of 4 years.  Its been a long time since 1st-2nd rd defensive  draft picks have been a priority. Other then secondary." if that's his method, it's not working. worst pass defense in the league.  no one ever won a championship with theworst pass defense in the league
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]


    Well, it depends on what your criteria for a defense being effective really is. Last year we were 8th in ppg allowed, better then 24 other teams. We were 1st in turnovers.....the casual fan sees all kinds of passing yards and figures we are terrible. I'm not saying we are great but it appears to me that the defense is doing what the scheme is asking for. I think if they are healthy we will see a few more pass deflections(3rd down stops) and perhaps sending extra rushers at the Qb will be in the plan at some point, but it clearly is not the goal right now.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    The line isn't helping the DB's out very well.  Check this out..

    Football Outsiders: Patriots vs. Different Receivers Stats

    It’s been well pounded into all of our heads that the Patriots pass defense ranks at or close to the bottom of the NFL in just about every passing category. My favorite rankings come from Football Outsiders who break down performance against each different receiver.

    These stats aren’t going to make you feel any better:

    • vs. #1 WR: 30th
    • vs. #2 WR: 26th
    • vs. Other WR: 5th
    • vs. TE: 26th
    • vs. RB: 18th

    Quick comparison to where the Pats finished in these rankings last year:

    • vs. #1 WR: 23rd
    • vs. #2 WR: 11th
    • vs. Other WR: 5th
    • vs. TE: 21st
    • vs. RB: 30th
    More pressure is needed, imo!!
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    how does that equate to wins and losses??  trending is great... and best practice indicators seem to drive how top managers do business...  i think there are important stats that our top manager likes....   thats points allowed, 3rd down efficiency, and red zone efficiency...   how do we trend in those after 4 games??  also how does it all equate to championships because we are the only ones who have 3 in the last 10 years and only one other team has 2... and they seem to be in early season trouble...   just sayin
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Yea the defense is working as intended...for the regular season and when the offense is putting up +30 points a game.  Then in the play-offs when the Pats face the best defenses and they need their D to step up, it will be bye bye again.  Oh I know Rusty will respond that the D is just "vanilla" now and will be different in the play-offs.  Problem is that's the same thing that was said last year, and the year before.....

    Also, when did all you guys convert to Colts fans?  When Indy was the main rival all anyone on here said was, Oh there all offense and no D that's why they can't win in the play-offs.  Now its ok for the D to give up 26 points a game and 500 yards of offense.  Somehow thats' going to be "ok" for the Pats come play-off time?

    If this D is playing like this in January, its one and done.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Yea well the Packers D does not pass the eye test either but you dont see that stopping anyone from sucking them off like a porn star. A lot of GOOD teams look real BAD on defense this year. FACT.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]


    The Packers' defense lost Cullen Jenkins. That is a huge, tremendous loss for them, no matter how you slice it. 

    One dominant interior lineman, especially in the 34, can change the way a whole unit plays. People forget that. 

    The defensive doldrums of the last few years can be as much a tale about the decay of NE's line from Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, to Wilfork and some JAGS. 

    NE needs Haynesworth in here yesterday, and contributing at a high level if BB's 43 dream is coming to fruition any time soon ... the difference between his presence being there and not being there (even with him playing into shape after missing the pre-season) was visible to the naked eye when they played Buffalo and to a lesser degree Oakland. If he can get healthy (for once here) and be motivated they'll generate more pressure from all angles. 
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Z, thats our problem though IMO, that we are all waiting and hoping for Haynesoworth to bail out our defense.  Not a guy I would put my hopes on. He has a bad track record and although he showed flashes when he played, he is still a part time player who gives up plays as much as he makes them.

    One minute he busts through the hole and slams a Rb, the next play he takes the wrong gap and gives up a 20 yard run. He is too inconsistent, out of shape and displays bad technique for him to be our saviour, IMO

    I pray that im wrong, but I hope B.B. has another ace in the hole...maybe R.Brace.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Z, thats our problem though IMO, that we are all waiting and hoping for Haynesoworth to bail out our defense.  Not a guy I would put my hopes on. He has a bad track record and although he showed flashes when he played, he is still a part time player who gives up plays as much as he makes them. One minute he busts through the hole and slams a Rb, the next play he takes the wrong gap and gives up a 20 yard run. He is too inconsistent, out of shape and displays bad technique for him to be our saviour, IMO I pray that im wrong, but I hope B.B. has another ace in the hole...maybe R.Brace.
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    It's our problem as fans watching. It's also BB's problem trying to fix the defense. Interior lineman don't grow on trees, and good ones are even harder to find. Defensive ends and outside linebackers that can apply legitimate pressure are almost equally rare. 

    BB completely overhauled this defense, as top to bottom as you can in one season, after watching it's failures the last few seasons. 

    The list of total player turnover is nothing less than stupendous. The majority of the guys he got rid of were cuts in the middle of standing contracts. The guys he picked up were all risks of some sort. And he completely changed the defensive front from 34 to 43. It's obvious he wanted something to change, and it was obvious why ...

    Now Haynesworth might not be as safe a bet as going out and grabbing a player that is in his prime, or has a clean track record. But first, those players aren't going to fall in NE's lap, especially not when you are drafting so low every season. Seymour was a top six selection IIRc. 

    So Haynesworth (and Carter, Anderson, and all those cuts) was a gamble BB was demonstrably willing to take to improve the defense from what it has been the last few seasons to somethig closer to what it was in the early part of the decade. 

    If he doesn't work out? It will be a wash probably when all is said and done. They'll have the same mediocre defense they've had the last few seasons. And NE can always win the Superbowl the "Saints" way, by gunning through the playoffs scoring 36 ppg and essentially being perfect. 

    It's just not a smart plan to bank on, because historically it really doesn't work often. 

    A QB like Brady always gives you that shot, as long as your defense is as bad as Buffalo's or something. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Ron Brace might end up on IR and I can see the haters now "cut him!" His elbow injury had a time table of a year for recovery and its not been a year yet and even after he might not be good to go right away. But i hope he is healthy cause he is better then people give him credit for. And yes the Packers lost a good player and as a result dont look as good on D but that does not stop people from acting like they are the 85 Bears and the Pats are the worst D in the history of the game. Its just funny how people are easily fooled by the media.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    Brace has shown BB something he likes ... he usually doesn't keep people around for nothing. In fact, especially on defense ... BB tends to shed players that he doesn't think are working out rather quickly if their contract is moveable. 

    He cut or let go half the starting defense from last season (Sanders, Meriweather, TBC, Moore, Warren) and essentially drafted a player designed to put Arrington on the bench in Ras-I Dowling. All told, BB probably wanted more from at least those six positions.

    Yet  he hung on to Brace, who would have been an easy cut amongst those names. 

    So Brace has to have done something he liked. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : We'll be in every game with a balanced offense just like LAST YEAR from Week 5 through Week 17. We were one and one or lost to Buffalo due to turnovers and no longstanding drives, Phat Rex. Please stop using different board names. You aren't fooling us. You're the same guy who said the cap era is easier to win in as opposed to the pre cap era when we did that poll last year, Phat Rex.  You're a fraud and WRONG constantly. They allow 20 points per game, on average, if Brady doesn't throw multiple INTs or we don't turn it over mutiple times. Just a fact. 19.8 points per game last year. We allow 20 and not 27, if not for Brady's whoppsies against Buffalo.  Yup.  Just facts. Funny how our D is responsbile for around 20 points per game so far this year, but our supposed all world pass happy COlts offense struggled to sustain past 20 points at time. See Jets, Broncos and Dolphins losses in 2009 for examples, SB 42, 2010 playoff loss to the Jets or Week 1-4 in 2010. Case closed and it's been closed.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Yes the case is closed Rusty.  You made the same arguement two years ago and they lost to Baltimore.  You made the same arguement last year and they lost to the Jets.

    Ignoring a problem doesnt solve it.  If the D doesnt improve this team is not going far in the play-offs. 

    Some Facts on a trending problem:

    In 2010 Pats offense averaged 32 points a game in the reg season and def gave up 20.  In the play-offs the Pats lost 28-21.

    In 2009 Pats offense averaged 27 points a game in the reg season and def gave up 18.  In the play-offs the Pats lost 33-14.

    This year the Pats D is giving up an avg of 24.5 points a game.

    Do you not see the trend that once the play-offs role around the Offense goes down (playing better defenses) and the D DOES NOT get better as you keep saying it will. 

    If the D does not improve, 2011 will end just like 2010 & 2009.  That's not a radical statement to most people, just to you Rusty. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : The Packers' defense lost Cullen Jenkins. That is a huge, tremendous loss for them, no matter how you slice it.  One dominant interior lineman, especially in the 34, can change the way a whole unit plays. People forget that.  The defensive doldrums of the last few years can be as much a tale about the decay of NE's line from Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, to Wilfork and some JAGS.  NE needs Haynesworth in here yesterday, and contributing at a high level if BB's 43 dream is coming to fruition any time soon ... the difference between his presence being there and not being there (even with him playing into shape after missing the pre-season) was visible to the naked eye when they played Buffalo and to a lesser degree Oakland. If he can get healthy (for once here) and be motivated they'll generate more pressure from all angles. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, Warrens career sputtered out way too early. He was done at 29 which is sort of a stroke of bad luck. Haynesworth is a band aid, but I think the way things have sort of fell have left the team short a quality lineman next to Wilfork the last couple years. After taking 3 first round defensive lineman in 4 drafts they now haven't taken one in the last 7 drafts. I think one is coming in the next draft. Just a guess, and I think it is the missing piece.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Yes but Patsman you dont win in the playoffs based off how you play in September you win in the playoffs based off how you are playing in December so talk to me about the defense in the December. In 08 with Matt Cassel we did not look great all year but many people think that had we made the playoffs that year we would have been the one team no one wanted to play. Its not how you play at the beginning it is how you play at the end. This D COULD get better as the year goes on. That HAS happened. Fact.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    MVP I agree with you 100%.  My point was that you can't just ASSUME it will get better.  People said in 2009 oh they will get better, it didn't.  People said in 2010 oh they will get better, it didnt.

    My response was to the original post that quoted Peppers as saying he was "happy" with the D and then the posts after saying not to worry about the D.  My point is I am WORRIED about the D and IF it doesn't improve I don't see them going anywhere in the play-offs.  I didn't say it woudln't get better, I said it has to.  Just my opinion but i am not "happy" with the D at this point. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : It's our problem as fans watching. It's also BB's problem trying to fix the defense. Interior lineman don't grow on trees, and good ones are even harder to find. Defensive ends and outside linebackers that can apply legitimate pressure are almost equally rare.  BB completely overhauled this defense, as top to bottom as you can in one season, after watching it's failures the last few seasons.  The list of total player turnover is nothing less than stupendous. The majority of the guys he got rid of were cuts in the middle of standing contracts. The guys he picked up were all risks of some sort. And he completely changed the defensive front from 34 to 43. It's obvious he wanted something to change, and it was obvious why ... Now Haynesworth might not be as safe a bet as going out and grabbing a player that is in his prime, or has a clean track record. But first, those players aren't going to fall in NE's lap, especially not when you are drafting so low every season. Seymour was a top six selection IIRc.  So Haynesworth (and Carter, Anderson, and all those cuts) was a gamble BB was demonstrably willing to take to improve the defense from what it has been the last few seasons to somethig closer to what it was in the early part of the decade.  If he doesn't work out? It will be a wash probably when all is said and done. They'll have the same mediocre defense they've had the last few seasons. And NE can always win the Superbowl the "Saints" way, by gunning through the playoffs scoring 36 ppg and essentially being perfect.  It's just not a smart plan to bank on, because historically it really doesn't work often.  A QB like Brady always gives you that shot, as long as your defense is as bad as Buffalo's or something. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]


    Z, you are right and I dont fault B.B. for trying to change it up, but I do think its couple years late and the lockout didnt help us in terms of team building and free agency, but like you said he brought in some players and obviously after seeing what they could do in preseason he stuck with the change, but in re: to Haynesworth for a 5th, I dont mind taking a look, but to fans I say after 4 weeks here and looking at his recent history can we really put all our eggs in his basket and say If he comes back than all is well?  I think we need to consider playing more 3-4 again if Haynesworth isnt ready...as we dont have many other quality lineman after that, but have a plethora of backers who do different things.  I like the change going forward esp. if we can land a top notch 4-3 DE in the draft, but its not ideal right now and our success is dependant on old guys like Ellis, Carter and Aintsworth....IDk....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from thor7. Show thor7's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    No scoop here but BB is a defensive coach who has the best QB in the league.  He has concentrated on getting the most help for the offense confident that his coaching can pull the defense up a notch in the end.  He learned his lesson the year before Moss came in.  Get Brady the weapons and protection and make the opponent keep up with the scoring. Look how many times the pressure to score has led opponents to try for first down instead of taking a field goal... that is points off the board.  Unfortunately the strategy is not proving so effective in the playoffs when everyone steps up their play and mistakes are fewer, taking some of the pressure off.  We'll see, meanwhile yes, watching this defense is like waiting for your emergency parachute to open while flapping your arms wildly.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : Agreed, Warrens career sputtered out way too early. He was done at 29 which is sort of a stroke of bad luck. Haynesworth is a band aid, but I think the way things have sort of fell have left the team short a quality lineman next to Wilfork the last couple years. After taking 3 first round defensive lineman in 4 drafts they now haven't taken one in the last 7 drafts. I think one is coming in the next draft. Just a guess, and I think it is the missing piece.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    Me too Shenanigan. 

    That and a solid second CB, because they haven't had a solid pair in while, mostly due to injuries (Bodden, Ras-I) and half due to busts (Butler, Wheatley). 

    When I say they could be one player away ... that is exactly what I mean. The last time Carter played with a healthy, not benched (lol) Haynesworth, he garnered 11 sacks. How would Vrabel have looked without that interior line? We don't know, but we can guess. 

    And yeah, eventually I hope NE trades up for a decent lineman. Heck, Adrian Clayborne would look real good right now ... not that I am upset with Solder who has been fantastic, and secures NE a set of geat bookend tackles going down the road. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hang3xc. Show hang3xc's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you want to work for a bean counting company and look at bottom lines all day and be shortsighted, congratulations. The rest of us will watch the games.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    HAHAHAHA That is ALL YOU DO is bring up stats to prove your point, then when someone else does it and exposes YOU, you come back with "If you want to work for a bean counting company and look at bottom lines all day and be shortsighted, congratulations." HAHAHAHA

    You and Mr Evil should start your own club of people who think we have an awesome defense. Yeah a win is a win is a win, but some of us see a defense that is MUCH less than impressive. A defense that makes EVERY QB & receiver look like an All Pro.  Maybe our run numbers look good because nobody NEEDS to try and run on us, they can throw the ball 20 yards at a pop, why run?
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : Exactly. But, don't waste your time with Patsman3. Phat Rex had himself in here as Patsman, Patsman2 and now Patsman3. When Patsman3 gets banned yet again, he'll probably whip up "Patsman4" like a bozo. The reason we lost last year in January was because of the offense.  Short fields, 2 fumbles, 1 INT, botched STs plays to try to cover for our one dimensional offense, and a total of 10-14 points left off the board in the first half. A maximum of 21 points swung in NY's direction, if we had scored two TDs and if we didn't give NY a starting point at our own 35, which led to their before halftime TD. We all know it. Some admit it, irrationals and trolls don't. The defense didn't improve in 2008 because it WAS OLD and it didn't improve very much in 2009 because we lost Seymour and Vrabel and had kids all over the field learning. In 2010, we clearly grew as a D, becoming the stastical best in December, for an entire MONTH.  Second in turnovers, the Run D was solid, etc.   What we didn't know is our offense would collapse. But, yes, a BB D, 9/10, always progresses. The D is AHEAD of last year's D with more depth, at this stage. We just have too many dopes who see names like Haynesworth, Carter and Ellis and immediately expect the '85 Bears, for reasons only known to them and their pink hats. And there is way, way too much talent on D for it not too. The talent here compared to 2009 is like night and day.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately Rusty Can can't take his own advice.  He still bothers me all the time.  Dude has a serious man crush on me Cry
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Bottom line is, the Pats have exactly 6 sacks this season.  Six, in four games.

    And honestly, it's not just the lack of sacks, it's the lack of pressure at all coming from this line.

    The good news is, their O line has only given up 4 sacks.  This team is build for offense, not defense.  And that's not going to work the whole season.
     
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