All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    BB has never liked to blitz all that much (and I'm defining "blitz" as sending more than 4 rushers at the QB).  He prefers to send 3 or 4 rushers and get whatever pressure he can with those guys.  In my opinion, his defenses have always been designed more to stop the run and the deep play.  He doesn't attack the backfield a lot and he's willing to play a bit softer in the underneath zones as long as his guys are stout at the line of scrimmage and protect the deep part of the field.  Even as he goes to a 4-3, I haven't seen a big change in the basic concept.  I think BB would love to see more pressure from his DL and LBs--he's just not going to get that pressure by blitzing and stunting a lot.  That's the Ryan (both Rex and Buddy) approach  . . . attack, attack, attack . . . and hope to disrupt the play early before the offense can get to the unprotected parts of the field.  The attack style works well with great corners and good LBs and safeties.  If you don't have good guys in coverage, though, it leaves you very vulnerable to the big play. BB seems to prefer a more conservative approach that forces the opposing offense to execute consistently in the short passing game--something that's not all that easy on long drives. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid

    Yeah. Usually coaches define "blitz" as when you send more pass rushers than the opponent has blockers -- so six or more. At least in classic terminology.

    Still NE sends send four men almost every down this season. The number of resources on defense dedicated to attacking the QB have increased for certain this season as a natural upshot of switching to 43. There are very few plays where they are only sending three.

    They were "attacking" more in the first three games. But they seemed to roll back those changes in game four, and by and large, looked a little better for playing more cover-2 and zone. At least better than they did against Buffalo.

    When Haynesworth, Ras-I, etc come back ... I wonder if we will see more of the cover-1 defense they were playing with in preseason and then in the first few games?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    When we play more 4-3 this is true, but playing the Bills for instance, we played a lot of 3-3-5 with only 3 lineman rushing,.....this is why Fitzy went off. When we send 4, its  not much better. with us its either all or nothing....when we rush 4 or 5, the qb just hits the open guy....when we bring 6 or 7, the ball is coming out hot and most likely an errant throw
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : true,   " Might no longer be a aneed in todays NFL to draft Seymour,Warren and Wilfork in the 1st rd 3 out of 4 years.  Its been a long time since 1st-2nd rd defensive  draft picks have been a priority. Other then secondary." if that's his method, it's not working. worst pass defense in the league.  no one ever won a championship with theworst pass defense in the league
    Posted by bredbru



    Well, it depends on what your criteria for a defense being effective really is. Last year we were 8th in ppg allowed, better then 24 other teams. We were 1st in turnovers.....the casual fan sees all kinds of passing yards and figures we are terrible. I'm not saying we are great but it appears to me that the defense is doing what the scheme is asking for. I think if they are healthy we will see a few more pass deflections(3rd down stops) and perhaps sending extra rushers at the Qb will be in the plan at some point, but it clearly is not the goal right now.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    The line isn't helping the DB's out very well.  Check this out..

    Football Outsiders: Patriots vs. Different Receivers Stats

    It’s been well pounded into all of our heads that the Patriots pass defense ranks at or close to the bottom of the NFL in just about every passing category. My favorite rankings come from Football Outsiders who break down performance against each different receiver.

    These stats aren’t going to make you feel any better:

    • vs. #1 WR: 30th
    • vs. #2 WR: 26th
    • vs. Other WR: 5th
    • vs. TE: 26th
    • vs. RB: 18th

    Quick comparison to where the Pats finished in these rankings last year:

    • vs. #1 WR: 23rd
    • vs. #2 WR: 11th
    • vs. Other WR: 5th
    • vs. TE: 21st
    • vs. RB: 30th
    More pressure is needed, imo!!
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    how does that equate to wins and losses??  trending is great... and best practice indicators seem to drive how top managers do business...  i think there are important stats that our top manager likes....   thats points allowed, 3rd down efficiency, and red zone efficiency...   how do we trend in those after 4 games??  also how does it all equate to championships because we are the only ones who have 3 in the last 10 years and only one other team has 2... and they seem to be in early season trouble...   just sayin
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    Yea well the Packers D does not pass the eye test either but you dont see that stopping anyone from sucking them off like a porn star. A lot of GOOD teams look real BAD on defense this year. FACT.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life



    The Packers' defense lost Cullen Jenkins. That is a huge, tremendous loss for them, no matter how you slice it. 

    One dominant interior lineman, especially in the 34, can change the way a whole unit plays. People forget that. 

    The defensive doldrums of the last few years can be as much a tale about the decay of NE's line from Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, to Wilfork and some JAGS. 

    NE needs Haynesworth in here yesterday, and contributing at a high level if BB's 43 dream is coming to fruition any time soon ... the difference between his presence being there and not being there (even with him playing into shape after missing the pre-season) was visible to the naked eye when they played Buffalo and to a lesser degree Oakland. If he can get healthy (for once here) and be motivated they'll generate more pressure from all angles. 
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Z, thats our problem though IMO, that we are all waiting and hoping for Haynesoworth to bail out our defense.  Not a guy I would put my hopes on. He has a bad track record and although he showed flashes when he played, he is still a part time player who gives up plays as much as he makes them.

    One minute he busts through the hole and slams a Rb, the next play he takes the wrong gap and gives up a 20 yard run. He is too inconsistent, out of shape and displays bad technique for him to be our saviour, IMO

    I pray that im wrong, but I hope B.B. has another ace in the hole...maybe R.Brace.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    Z, thats our problem though IMO, that we are all waiting and hoping for Haynesoworth to bail out our defense.  Not a guy I would put my hopes on. He has a bad track record and although he showed flashes when he played, he is still a part time player who gives up plays as much as he makes them. One minute he busts through the hole and slams a Rb, the next play he takes the wrong gap and gives up a 20 yard run. He is too inconsistent, out of shape and displays bad technique for him to be our saviour, IMO I pray that im wrong, but I hope B.B. has another ace in the hole...maybe R.Brace.
    Posted by JayShizzle45

    It's our problem as fans watching. It's also BB's problem trying to fix the defense. Interior lineman don't grow on trees, and good ones are even harder to find. Defensive ends and outside linebackers that can apply legitimate pressure are almost equally rare. 

    BB completely overhauled this defense, as top to bottom as you can in one season, after watching it's failures the last few seasons. 

    The list of total player turnover is nothing less than stupendous. The majority of the guys he got rid of were cuts in the middle of standing contracts. The guys he picked up were all risks of some sort. And he completely changed the defensive front from 34 to 43. It's obvious he wanted something to change, and it was obvious why ...

    Now Haynesworth might not be as safe a bet as going out and grabbing a player that is in his prime, or has a clean track record. But first, those players aren't going to fall in NE's lap, especially not when you are drafting so low every season. Seymour was a top six selection IIRc. 

    So Haynesworth (and Carter, Anderson, and all those cuts) was a gamble BB was demonstrably willing to take to improve the defense from what it has been the last few seasons to somethig closer to what it was in the early part of the decade. 

    If he doesn't work out? It will be a wash probably when all is said and done. They'll have the same mediocre defense they've had the last few seasons. And NE can always win the Superbowl the "Saints" way, by gunning through the playoffs scoring 36 ppg and essentially being perfect. 

    It's just not a smart plan to bank on, because historically it really doesn't work often. 

    A QB like Brady always gives you that shot, as long as your defense is as bad as Buffalo's or something. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    Ron Brace might end up on IR and I can see the haters now "cut him!" His elbow injury had a time table of a year for recovery and its not been a year yet and even after he might not be good to go right away. But i hope he is healthy cause he is better then people give him credit for. And yes the Packers lost a good player and as a result dont look as good on D but that does not stop people from acting like they are the 85 Bears and the Pats are the worst D in the history of the game. Its just funny how people are easily fooled by the media.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life

    Brace has shown BB something he likes ... he usually doesn't keep people around for nothing. In fact, especially on defense ... BB tends to shed players that he doesn't think are working out rather quickly if their contract is moveable. 

    He cut or let go half the starting defense from last season (Sanders, Meriweather, TBC, Moore, Warren) and essentially drafted a player designed to put Arrington on the bench in Ras-I Dowling. All told, BB probably wanted more from at least those six positions.

    Yet  he hung on to Brace, who would have been an easy cut amongst those names. 

    So Brace has to have done something he liked. 

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : The Packers' defense lost Cullen Jenkins. That is a huge, tremendous loss for them, no matter how you slice it.  One dominant interior lineman, especially in the 34, can change the way a whole unit plays. People forget that.  The defensive doldrums of the last few years can be as much a tale about the decay of NE's line from Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, to Wilfork and some JAGS.  NE needs Haynesworth in here yesterday, and contributing at a high level if BB's 43 dream is coming to fruition any time soon ... the difference between his presence being there and not being there (even with him playing into shape after missing the pre-season) was visible to the naked eye when they played Buffalo and to a lesser degree Oakland. If he can get healthy (for once here) and be motivated they'll generate more pressure from all angles. 
    Posted by zbellino


    Agreed, Warrens career sputtered out way too early. He was done at 29 which is sort of a stroke of bad luck. Haynesworth is a band aid, but I think the way things have sort of fell have left the team short a quality lineman next to Wilfork the last couple years. After taking 3 first round defensive lineman in 4 drafts they now haven't taken one in the last 7 drafts. I think one is coming in the next draft. Just a guess, and I think it is the missing piece.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : It's our problem as fans watching. It's also BB's problem trying to fix the defense. Interior lineman don't grow on trees, and good ones are even harder to find. Defensive ends and outside linebackers that can apply legitimate pressure are almost equally rare.  BB completely overhauled this defense, as top to bottom as you can in one season, after watching it's failures the last few seasons.  The list of total player turnover is nothing less than stupendous. The majority of the guys he got rid of were cuts in the middle of standing contracts. The guys he picked up were all risks of some sort. And he completely changed the defensive front from 34 to 43. It's obvious he wanted something to change, and it was obvious why ... Now Haynesworth might not be as safe a bet as going out and grabbing a player that is in his prime, or has a clean track record. But first, those players aren't going to fall in NE's lap, especially not when you are drafting so low every season. Seymour was a top six selection IIRc.  So Haynesworth (and Carter, Anderson, and all those cuts) was a gamble BB was demonstrably willing to take to improve the defense from what it has been the last few seasons to somethig closer to what it was in the early part of the decade.  If he doesn't work out? It will be a wash probably when all is said and done. They'll have the same mediocre defense they've had the last few seasons. And NE can always win the Superbowl the "Saints" way, by gunning through the playoffs scoring 36 ppg and essentially being perfect.  It's just not a smart plan to bank on, because historically it really doesn't work often.  A QB like Brady always gives you that shot, as long as your defense is as bad as Buffalo's or something. 
    Posted by zbellino



    Z, you are right and I dont fault B.B. for trying to change it up, but I do think its couple years late and the lockout didnt help us in terms of team building and free agency, but like you said he brought in some players and obviously after seeing what they could do in preseason he stuck with the change, but in re: to Haynesworth for a 5th, I dont mind taking a look, but to fans I say after 4 weeks here and looking at his recent history can we really put all our eggs in his basket and say If he comes back than all is well?  I think we need to consider playing more 3-4 again if Haynesworth isnt ready...as we dont have many other quality lineman after that, but have a plethora of backers who do different things.  I like the change going forward esp. if we can land a top notch 4-3 DE in the draft, but its not ideal right now and our success is dependant on old guys like Ellis, Carter and Aintsworth....IDk....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from thor7. Show thor7's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    No scoop here but BB is a defensive coach who has the best QB in the league.  He has concentrated on getting the most help for the offense confident that his coaching can pull the defense up a notch in the end.  He learned his lesson the year before Moss came in.  Get Brady the weapons and protection and make the opponent keep up with the scoring. Look how many times the pressure to score has led opponents to try for first down instead of taking a field goal... that is points off the board.  Unfortunately the strategy is not proving so effective in the playoffs when everyone steps up their play and mistakes are fewer, taking some of the pressure off.  We'll see, meanwhile yes, watching this defense is like waiting for your emergency parachute to open while flapping your arms wildly.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : Agreed, Warrens career sputtered out way too early. He was done at 29 which is sort of a stroke of bad luck. Haynesworth is a band aid, but I think the way things have sort of fell have left the team short a quality lineman next to Wilfork the last couple years. After taking 3 first round defensive lineman in 4 drafts they now haven't taken one in the last 7 drafts. I think one is coming in the next draft. Just a guess, and I think it is the missing piece.
    Posted by shenanigan


    Me too Shenanigan. 

    That and a solid second CB, because they haven't had a solid pair in while, mostly due to injuries (Bodden, Ras-I) and half due to busts (Butler, Wheatley). 

    When I say they could be one player away ... that is exactly what I mean. The last time Carter played with a healthy, not benched (lol) Haynesworth, he garnered 11 sacks. How would Vrabel have looked without that interior line? We don't know, but we can guess. 

    And yeah, eventually I hope NE trades up for a decent lineman. Heck, Adrian Clayborne would look real good right now ... not that I am upset with Solder who has been fantastic, and secures NE a set of geat bookend tackles going down the road. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hang3xc. Show hang3xc's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    In Response to Re: If you want to work for a bean counting company and look at bottom lines all day and be shortsighted, congratulations. The rest of us will watch the games.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    HAHAHAHA That is ALL YOU DO is bring up stats to prove your point, then when someone else does it and exposes YOU, you come back with "If you want to work for a bean counting company and look at bottom lines all day and be shortsighted, congratulations." HAHAHAHA

    You and Mr Evil should start your own club of people who think we have an awesome defense. Yeah a win is a win is a win, but some of us see a defense that is MUCH less than impressive. A defense that makes EVERY QB & receiver look like an All Pro.  Maybe our run numbers look good because nobody NEEDS to try and run on us, they can throw the ball 20 yards at a pop, why run?
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Bottom line is, the Pats have exactly 6 sacks this season.  Six, in four games.

    And honestly, it's not just the lack of sacks, it's the lack of pressure at all coming from this line.

    The good news is, their O line has only given up 4 sacks.  This team is build for offense, not defense.  And that's not going to work the whole season.
     
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