An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    Gentlemen:

    When you were winning Super Bowls or making deep runs in the playoff, we were willing to support your theory that it wasn't so much the players that made the team, but the scheme. And we stuck by you as you let go of people like Samuel, Law, Willie, Deion, Seymour, Gaffney, Graham, Vrabel and Hobbs (who was a heck of a return man). Because we were convinced that you knew what you were doing in constructing a team. But after this year, the question is -was it really the scheme? Wouldn't Law have been better than Starks in 2005? Couldn't Samuel have helped the past two years? Would Willie have made a play in the 2006 AFC Championship game or the 2007 Super Bowl? Would Branch have dropped that sure TD in the aforementioned AFC Championship game? Would Seymour or Vrabel have made a big stop in one of the teams 5 second half collapses?

    So maybe it's about the players too. Not so much big money FA's like Adalius Thomas or even Rosie Colvin, but about the guys that bought in under rookie contracts, outperformed, and want new deals. Why can't we keep those guys? Because it is starting to seem like letting all those guys go is the reason why the team has declined.

    So please, PLEASE, give Vince a contract. Extend Brady. Extend Mankins and Gost, even though you don't have to this year. And spend a little money on some B-B+ free agents (as opposed to the F/D- free agents like Galloway and Deltha O'Neal). After all, judging by the empty seats at the playoff game, you don't actually expect people to keep coming to Patriot Place if you show no loyalty AND the product is not the top notch team that we expect from an owner that is making billions of of us based on that product.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    Some truth in that post but it is a two way street with some of those players that were let go. I remember "I need to feed my family" Ty Law, and Willie thinking he should be paid as a top pass rusher when those years were definately behind him. (Not saying they were right to let them go but given the players stances it was understandable.)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    OK so the way they worked and got to the SB and deep into the playoffs is no longer any good just because of one year that it did not work well??
    You take none of the injuries or retirements into consideration.
    You are really just here for complaining and not for any real look into what happened.

    Then you cap it off by saying there were empty seats. Were you watching the start of the game? Show us the empty seats then you fool.
    Yes people left early but the game was sold out and every A SS was in every seat for most of the game.

    Think before you post and maybe you won't sound so useless and foolish.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    Don't forget Bodden...

    Oh yeah and up the salary caps you guys have set on coordinator jobs so we can hire some of the best out there, instead of some young guy trying to make a name.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    "Then you cap it off by saying there were empty seats. Were you watching the start of the game? Show us the empty seats then you fool.
    Yes people left early but the game was sold out and every A SS was in every seat for most of the game."

    Actually Jim, I was at the game. And there were empty seats. And not just the club seats, but the nosebleed seats. In fact, I have been to every playoff game since 2003, and I have never seen anything like it. Now, it wasn't Jacksonville. But it is clear that some people just didn't go, I don't know. Maybe you had a better viewpoint from Florida?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    "because of one year that it did not work well"

    Read the post. One year that it hasn't worked well? This team used to be clutch. Ty Law made clutch plays. McGinest made clutch plays. Branch made clutch plays. In every single year since 2006, this team was eliminated because they COULD NOT MAKE THE CRUCIAL CLUTCH PLAYS. 

    And this year was the culmination. By getting rid of all those guys, there were simply no more clutch players and the team simply didn't have one signature game, one stand out clutch play, etc.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    I somewhat agree with the post, some of the guys mentioned marketed, talked themselves out of the Patriots.
    This team was/is (hope it is still) built with the team first moto, when guys are questioning somethings right or not but do it in the media it is time for them to go.

    I didn't agree with Law or Willie or Lawyer and the way the handled their departure well maybe not willie he's always talked very highly of BB and Mr Kraft. But others once they leave they stone this franchise.  With that been said, I think I'm a hipocrate because I'm willing to put up with that rather than to hear Jet fans talk about their team making a better run than we did or been on the coach late January with football on and not watching my team

    So PAY the man, bring a good OC and DC they don't have to bring in a completely new scheme but someone experience and its not scared to say Bill that might not work as well as ...  I keep saying bring in Teddy Willie and Troy as coaches to keep their way alive it won 3 SBs didn't it?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    Dear Bob and Bill,

    How dare you not win us a Super Bowl every year!  What's a matter you!  We didn't sign up to be fans of some loser team.  If you don't win the next 10 Super Bowls, we'll become Colts fans!

    Sincerely,

    Your loyal fans.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    They're billionaire businessmen for a reason; they're smarter than we are when it comes to these things. Are they both passionate about winning? Yes. Are they both passionate about this organization? Yes. It could be much, much worse.

    I've always had the opportunity to watch Boston fans from afar (Atlanta) and trust me, most of the miserable people here that call for their heads after every loss will truly, truly miss this tandem when it's no longer around.

    A successful dynasty in sports is like a successful, tenured company. They have a philosophy and they stick to it, especially if it's reaped rewards for a decade. Apple isn't going to slash research and development budgets because that's going to take away from their intuitive products. The Patriots philosophy is this value-based system, which is low risk and high reward. To keep this system in place and to keep it successful, you need a handful of people to maintain the checks and balances. In sports, and it's the same way in business, other companies/teams watch you from afar and want a piece of your braintrust. We've been milked of our coaching, scouting and management. That's what winning does. The system will be fine but we can't have this many misses in free agency/drafts. Several years without a Super Bowl isn't exactly the end of the world and it most certainly does not taint the Patriots organization. Again, that'd be like Apple having two bad years and people calling for Steve Jobs' head. Not going to happen and if it did, you wouldn't have Apple anymore.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    AP:

    I agree to an extent. In business, the management is the talent. They come up with the ideas and make them work. The product is solely a concept of management and it is, say, an iphone. The product can never come into existence without the management.

    In sports, the management is only part of the success. The product is not solely the concept of management. It is also based on the god-given talents of the athletes themselves. The existence of the product does not solely depend on the management. In fact, in the 1920's, 1930's, etc. the coaches were usually players, e.g., Curly Lambeau. They didn't need an elaborate business model to put on the game.

    I guess this argument all comes down to - what is more responsible for the success of the Patriots, coaching or players? I think it's a combination, but I am starting to think that the players have more to do with it than coaches/management thinks.

    And that has always been the players' beef with the Pats. That the coaches think they can just coach people up and they will still be at a certain level. I used to know one player who was on the 2001-04 team. He would tell me that and I would politely agree, but at the time I thought he was just bitter. I also have heard from a former player's wife that this is the case. Again, I didn't believe it. But now I am starting to understand and I think the Wilfork and Seymour situations have woken me up to it. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    You're right but I think Belichick/Kraft banked on the new direction of the NFL which is based more on economics and less on talent and coaching. Not saying that talent and coaching is unnecessary but they're not as prevelent as they once were and that's because of the new economics of the NFL (salary cap, free agency)

    Honestly, you can't be smart economically AND make all your players happy so yes, I'm sure plenty of Patriots will be pissed off ultimately but that's the nature of the business. Players have the right to sit out if they're not satisfied with the contracts and similarly, management has the right to not extend a player and to ask him to play out his current agreement. It works both ways and to me, you can't be smart and efficient economically and still be that friendly, grandfatherly coach/owner/GM.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    A team has to have terrific players to win, and we have let some terrific players go.  The idea seems to be that we can have a chance to win for a longer period of time by focusing on value and avoiding paying big contracts certain players.  I think the stategy demands two things.  One, that we can pick the right replacements.  And I think the team has done well.  The original post mentions Law and Samuel, but come on, Samuel replaced Law.  The second thing it demands is being able to coach the players to a higher level than they would be elsewhere or were elsewhere.  They've been pretty successfull at that, too.  Don't you mention Galloway and not mention Dillon.  But, can they still coach these guys?  Do they still offer the team led atmosphere of success?  I feel the team is lacking in coaching and player leadership.  Edelman is a sign that we can still choose winners out of nowhere, so I hope we just need a better offensive coach and better defensive leaders.  This year really goes to show how great the team was for a while there, but it doesn't mean BB, Kraft, Brady, et al can't get it toghether for another run.  In the words of Eddie Murphy in that Steve Martin film movie, "keep it together, keep it together, keep it together."

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimijazz. Show jimijazz's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    More testimony on the empty seats from a 20-year season ticket holder.

    There were LOTS of empty seats in the 3rd tier.  The upper corners were only about 20% full.  The SRO spots were empty throughout the game except for the bridges, which were single file when they are usally 3-4 deep.  In the lower corners where I sit it was about 60% full at kick off (about the same as a dull regular season game against Arizona) and about 90% full at the end of the first.  Those people missed the game while still walking in.

    Also, ticket prices on eBay were dropping all week long.  On Saturday I picked up a second pair in my section for $102 ($254 face value).  Pairs in the third tier were going for $50-70 dollars.  In short there was very little fan interest.  Stub Hub must have taken a bath.

    Finally, I was watching the Kraft's booth throughout the game.  With 10 minutes left they closed 3 of the 4 glass panels.  Bob Kraft is a great man who has accomplished great things so I shouldn't complain, but to me that was one of the most disappointing things I saw all day.  That and the fact that they never threw a pass to #65, who was eligible on every other play the Ravens ran.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking103. Show harleyroadking103's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    You have admit the players we have out there really can dance.....even when they're down 20 pointsin the 4th quarter.

    The scouts must have been looking for this,  1) dances well no matter the situation on the field. 2) laughs and yucks it well on the sideline no matter the situation on the field. 3) always very jovial with media no matter how bad the embarrassing loss.

    This team needs more Willie attitude, and Law play then what we have out there.
    Maybe they asked for a payday because they were were worth it. Law walked on to Denver on a Thursday and was playing on Sunday and played well, you think we could have used him all those years in between.   
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    And I want Wilfork back, too, he's one of my favorites.  Still, remember the time they brought in Ted Washington.  Incredible acquisition.  Did you see three games to glory, "don't get tash talking with them.  We'll settle this on the field!"
    I sure hope we haven't lost too much attractiveness to players who want to come in b/c they want to play for a winner.  That's scarey.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    Dear bearded clam, if we "stick a fork" in all the teams who haven't won a SB more recently than 2004, then at least there won't be much comtetition.

    "But uh, back to the lecture at hand," Caesar, could we ask for an excellent coach in your request to Kraft to spend some of his dough.  We don't acquire coaches generally, and well, we could use one.  Even if top assistance would be reluctant to work for BB given his level of control, they'd have to admit that Pats coaches move on to get good opportunities elsewhere.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    I think some Pats fans might need to stop and smell the roses.  Do you realize how competitive the Pats have been for the past decade?  They have missed the playoffs twice (once going 11-5 with a backup QB all season).  This ownership and front office has put a quality product on the field each and every year and I don't see any big losses this team will have next year (assuming they keep Wilfork) to keep them from competing in future years.  They have four draft picks in the first two rounds next year and two first round picks the year after.  They have a franchise QB to continue to build around a solid core of young players.  I guess some of you must not remember the five years from 1989 to 1993 when the most games the team won was 6, and they had years of winning 1 and 2 in that span.  So I think in your open letter you should congratulate the Kraft family for turning the organization around and ask them to keep up the good work.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    I believe the Pats braintrust has forgotten the value of talent and they have us drinking the 'value' player koolaid.

    The teams that won the SB' '01' 02 and '04 were made up of keen scounting and talent assement by on Bobby Grier who also preached the value of long term contracts to keep the good ones. Grier draftees on those teams were: Law, McGinnest, Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Faulk, they made up the stardom that turned into SB's He also got Bledsoe and a lot of other 'stars' who made plays and those guys we all around in the glory years.

    One by one they wer cut because of $ and Kraft seems to think its him and the BB mistique that brought al the glory. It wasn't it was Grier's asstute talent evaluation and spending $ on star players.

    Who do we have now besides Brady? Warren, Green, Wihite, Merriweather, Guyton, Burgess, Thomas, - none can play worth a darn. Were down to 4 stars on this team  (and we'll lose Wilfork and Mankins because of $) which is why we won't see another SB appearance for years. Kraft has to stop the cheap ways and sign some stars. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    Jader:

    On the last paragraph, I would disagree with Warren and Guyton. Warren has been a member of two Super Bowl champions and almost a third. He almost always plays and is a big time run stuffer.

    Guyton is a good third linebacker. Merriweather seems to be a me-first type of guy. I would be up for trading him while his value is high. Then we have a three safety rotation Sanders, Chung and McGowan.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    So MVP, I am off-base for asking the ownership to sign Brady, Wilfork and extend Mankins and Gost?

    If so, GAC brother, GAC.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    posted at 1/13/2010 4:36 PM EST
    Posts: 667
    First: 9/25/2009
    Last: 1/13/2010
    So when we had Seymore and Vrabel we were too old and "NEEDED" to get younger at any cost and now that the team has gotten younger you want to complain about how these young guys cant play the same as the old guys? You cant have it both ways, you cant call for the team to rebuild and then act all surprised when they have a down year. You know what kind of teams have fans writing letters to the owner and renting addspace off the highway and stuff like that? The Oakland Raiders, The Buffalo Bills. We are not those teams, we had a bad year and we lost in the PLAYOFFS! but we still made it, we still won the div so I dont think its time for us to start writing letters to the owners asking for a change. Get a f*cking grip.
    I'll add my name to this letter.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    This is all about inventory turnover. When you have a team that is widely perceived to be the gold standard, every other team will try to replicate that standard or formula. Basic economics tells you that you will not be able to keep all the management, personel, and talent for a great length of time. People have egos and want more money. I don't begrudge any player wanting more money because that's the inherent nature of all businesses. If I work for Fleet and some manager wants me at Goldman Sachs and is willing to increase my salary/enhance performance bonus, buy me a Bentley, who am I to turn that down. If Wilfork wants a long term contract it's probably because 1) he wants to set his entire family up for the rest of their lives 2) there is no certainty or job security in the NFL; a player is always one bone jarring play away from a career end 3) I am built to play football; when my playing days are over I wanna spend time with my kids, make love to my wife and play Streetfighter Alpha online with Warren Sapp and never worry about the money.....ever....

    Kraft wants a winner. He doesn't need disco demolition night at Patriot Place to appease the fans...He is a fan. That's why he bought the team and brought in the talent to instill success.  Some of that talent has left (cf: 49ers, Cowboys, Steelers) and new blood is needed to continue to succeed as a franchise. BB, Kraft and nearly everyone is probably super-peeved. Rightfully so. The sign of a good businessmen is not to engage in knee jerk reactive behavior (Dan Snyder) ,to be prepared to walk away from a bad deal, and make tough decisions that have reprecussions and consequences for his organization. They will never be the right decisions all the time, but you make them anyway. Willie, Law, Milloy, Bruschi, Harrison, Washington etc....all tough decisions. Pay for the present, plan for the future. When you look at all the talent at all levels that has been lost it is very difficult to retain the same competitiveness and continue to play at a very high level in the most competitive league in professional sports. Above all you need character ,patience, and dedication. Oh and leadership. Most of those traits are acquired over time and not bestowed upon by fans and media pundits. Quality employees = quality organization= successful product= straight cash homey divided by fans.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    I agree we need to resign the guys you named i was mostly saying we dont need to start writing letters to the team you know?

    Yeah, the post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But I will not be happy if Fork isn't resigned. He, Gost, and Mankins are home grown, homerun draft picks. The draft hasn't really been the best thing in the world for us from 2004-2008 and it would be a shame to let them go.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x45. Show sday4x45's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    Wilfork had better get signed..........why hasn't AT been let go yet
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: An Open Letter to Bill and Bob

    "OK so the way they worked and got to the SB and deep into the playoffs is no longer any good just because of one year that it did not work well??"

    The fact of the matter is they have lost too many irreplacebale guys over the years since 2004, and the results support the thread authors argument.  If they had only kept Law, they would would have had Law and Samuel in 2005, 2006 and 2007.  Just that extra player alone probably gets them SB wins in those three years.  With that, there is no question the Pats would be hailed as the best team ever, bar none. Not the Browns of the '40s, not the Packers of the '60s, not the Steelers of the '70s, not the 'Niners, not the Cowboys of the '90s.  OK, so maybe Law gave them little choice, but I think my point is clear and substantiable.  And Branch gave them not choice, but many others did.  I can see only MCGinnest a justifiable loss becasue he started a shoving fight along the sidelines with Lonnie Paxton in the 2005 AFC divisional round against Denver.  Inexcuseable on that type of team, so he had to go.

    "You take none of the injuries or retirements into consideration.
    You are really just here for complaining and not for any real look into what happened."

    All teams get injuries and the Pats were not the most injured team in the NFL.  But in 2004 they were.  Like Brady said, "Injuries are just an excuse." The retirements would not have been so devastating had they retained more guys like Samuel, Fauria, Graham, Evans, Paxton, Andruzzi and other vets.  Why did they lose them?  Because they low-balled all of those players to start, just as they are doing with Wilfork.  What they should be doing is re-writing the contracts well in advance of the expirations after they players prove their value.  Instead, they pay Wilfork, Mankins, Ghostowski and Brady well below their level of play, while overpaying for guys that have had no impact.  They could have kept Law if they renegotiated his contract two years before he hit F/A.  He earned it. Same with Samuel, Branch, etc., etc., etc.  That is why these guys feel no loyalty and that is why they make huge demands when they are approaching or are in free agency.  The Pats consistently let the window close before they get the deals done.  Other successful teams (Colts, Chargers, Steelers) avoid this result by being proactive.  The Pats rely too much on guys giving hometown discounts like Bruschi, Faulk, Green and Brady. Samuel and Law basically said as much, just as Wilfork and Mankins are saying now.

    "Then you cap it off by saying there were empty seats. Were you watching the start of the game? Show us the empty seats then you fool."

    Many first-hand reports here, and many reports in the news support that there were many empty seats.  Time to apologize, lest you look like a "fool".

    "Yes people left early but the game was sold out and every A SS was in every seat for most of the game."

    The game was not sold out, as I understand it, but I may be wrong.  If it was, it was probably sold out to scalpers, not fans. Th epalced was emptying in the third quarter.  Consider it a fan boycott for a generally poorly mananged season.  Based on his comments, it seems like even BB realizes he blew the pooch this season by not hiring a quality supporting staff in some critical spots, not pcking good talent and not delegating more responsiblites to capable people.  Expect staff changes.  Lots of them. 

    "Think before you post and maybe you won't sound so useless and foolish."

    Good advice.  Follow it.

     
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