Analyzing the interception.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : As I've said multiple times on this thread, I think BB is a great coach. Still, he's either missing on a lot of guys he's drafted or he's not doing a great job of developing some of that talent.  There's been a long string of guys like Wheatley, Crable, Butler, Price--even Merriwheather--who seem to hang around for a long time without getting better and sometimes actually getting worse.  Maybe they're all just duds and the problem was drafting them in the first place . . . but it is weird then that BB keeps them around so long.  It's as if even BB thinks they have potential but he (or his coaches) can't seem to unlock that potential. I realize BB is drafting low down most drafts, but he's worked his trades masterfully to get reasonably decent picks each year despite the Pats low draft position.  But he's either picking the wrong guys or not doing the right things to develop them.  I don't know which it is, but I think you can legitimately question what's going on. As far as BB's game planning and in-game coaching, though, there's no question he's about the best there is.   
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    It's not complicated. He's not the greatest GM around. His drafting and FA signing has been a very mixed bag.

    If he was not developing the talent then they would leave here and excel somewhere else that is more capable of developing talent. That largely has not happened.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : Underwood wasn't SUPPOSED to run along the back of the end zone-so he didn't run the route he was supposed to run. You fail the exam. Again, a 10 point lead is better than a 14 point lead?  
    Posted by Patsfansince1966


    AH! So you, the fan, "assures all" that Underwood wasn't supposedto run trhe back of eh end zone. Interesting..... And I missed that AND failed your exam..... INteresting....

    Guess Brady flunked the course as he OBVIOUSLY had no clue that Underwood ran a "wrong route", yet still tried to squeeze a ball into a hopeless spot, needing a WR "effort to break up the pass that never should have been thrown".
    Do I get ewxtra credit for suggesting that maybe if teeh ball went into the stands the fans would have a better chance of "breaking up the pass"?

    Sorry, but I don't recall ever enrolling in Pats66 Pointless U!
     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : You guess correctly. You did miss something. Nothing new, I'm sure. Gregg Bedard breaks the play down for the Globe and shows how the receiver blew the pattern. I'm guessing even you can understand this. Don't let me down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhQ-e_7IwxY
    Posted by BabeParilli


    So I guess the NFL replay (CBS's) showing Gronk open in the end zone with his defender clearly BEHIND him, and the ability to go up and catch a high throw was the WRONG play?  

    I'll concede that you're right. it's much better to throw a ball to a WR running an obvious wrong route than to your All World TE who's already caught high TD passes during the game being played, right?

    My guess is that perhaps you SHOULD understand this concept, but notice that I'm saying that "evenyou can understand this". Guess it's much better to polish the halo Brady sports 24/7/365 than to be objective.

    Bottom line is you won't change your view and I won't change mine. Brady doesn't throw the ball anywhere near an in-bounds player, and they get the FG.  Remember, a properly thrown ball leaving the playing field CANNOT be intercepted.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : Did you watch Bedard's breakdown?  Underwood was supposed to hook back to the ball, which was what Brady was expecting.  Instead, he ran parallel to the back of the end zone, which ALLOWED Wilson to undercut the route and get the pick. If Underwood runs the route correctly, it's a TD.  If not, it's a pick. Personally, I would have rather had a 14 point lead than a 10 point lead, which is why everyone is blaming Brady.  If a street WR hadn't screwed up, it would have been 41-27.
    Posted by Patsfansince1966


    What coaching staff is he on? What Patriots position coach is he? What's his coaching experience? His credentials? The factual basis for his commentary? Methinks it's his opinion, which really doen't matter a whiole lot. At least only to those who take 100% stock and faith in it. God knows that teh media, sports or otherwise, doesn't have opinions, right?

    My guess, no make that theory, is that as long as he or any other writer/broadcaster/TV personality says GOOD things about our favorite players, their commentary is as good as gold, right?

    Did you happen to notice that Gronk was wide open in the endzone, with his defender BEHIND him, with the proven ability, in that game, to go get a high TD toss? Bedard "hinted" about this but never elaborated. Suggestyou review the CBS tape/breakdown to see Gronk making an effort to get the ball as it goes over his head. Suffice to say, a little lower and rthere's the TD.

    But, no.... it's much more fashionable to blame the receiver for Brady's poor judgement. Unless Brady didn't have a clue that the receiver was runningteh WRONG route. In that case, if the TD is good, then Brady's a hero (why, Underwood would just be doing his job). If it fails, then, as we see, it's Underwood that failed (read: Is to blame).

    It must be comforting to Brady to know that he'll always be in a win/win situation on his game playing decisions. Like overthrowing a wide open Welker (No, wait! Welker should have been 6" taller!) 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : So I guess the NFL replay (CBS's) showing Gronk open in the end zone with his defender clearly BEHIND him, and the ability to go up and catch a high throw was the WRONG play?   I'll concede that you're right. it's much better to throw a ball to a WR running an obvious wrong route than to your All World TE who's already caught high TD passes during the game being played, right? My guess is that perhaps you SHOULD understand this concept, but notice that I'm saying that "evenyou can understand this". Guess it's much better to polish the halo Brady sports 24/7/365 than to be objective. Bottom line is you won't change your view and I won't change mine. Brady doesn't throw the ball anywhere near an in-bounds player, and they get the FG.  Remember, a properly thrown ball leaving the playing field CANNOT be intercepted.
    Posted by AZPAT


    We can agree to disagree on whether Brady threw a bad pass or the reciever executed the route improperly, or even if the decision to throw to him was valid.

    But we cannot agree to disagree in regard to O'Brien inturrupting Brady relating the issue he had with what the receiver did.  O'Brien could have informed Brady of his deficiencies on the play after Brady concluded with Underwood if he had to. Barging in was just trying to show up Brady and when the reaction wasn't all cherry sweet and apple blossoms O'Brian melted down like a fool.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : What coaching staff is he on? What Patriots position coach is he? What's his coaching experience? His credentials? The factual basis for his commentary? Methinks it's his opinion, which really doen't matter a whiole lot. At least only to those who take 100% stock and faith in it. God knows that teh media, sports or otherwise, doesn't have opinions, right? My guess, no make that theory, is that as long as he or any other writer/broadcaster/TV personality says GOOD things about our favorite players, their commentary is as good as gold, right? Did you happen to notice that Gronk was wide open in the endzone, with his defender BEHIND him, with the proven ability, in that game, to go get a high TD toss? Bedard "hinted" about this but never elaborated. Suggestyou review the CBS tape/breakdown to see Gronk making an effort to get the ball as it goes over his head. Suffice to say, a little lower and rthere's the TD. But, no.... it's much more fashionable to blame the receiver for Brady's poor judgement. Unless Brady didn't have a clue that the receiver was runningteh WRONG route. In that case, if the TD is good, then Brady's a hero (why, Underwood would just be doing his job). If it fails, then, as we see, it's Underwood that failed (read: Is to blame). It must be comforting to Brady to know that he'll always be in a win/win situation on his game playing decisions. Like overthrowing a wide open Welker (No, wait! Welker should have been 6" taller!) 
    Posted by AZPAT



    What should we go by then? Your malevolent spin? No thanks.
     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjfiton. Show kjfiton's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    Of course a touchdown is better, nobody's going to deny that. The point of running the ball down there was to kill the clock and score.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    Of course a touchdown is better, nobody's going to deny that. The point of running the ball down there was to kill the clock and score.
    Posted by kjfiton


    Have you considered that if the guy runs the route right and we get a TD the clock then becomes irrelevant?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjfiton. Show kjfiton's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In response to "Re: Analyzing the interception.":
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : Have you considered that if the guy runs the route right and we get a TD the clock then becomes irrelevant? Posted by BabeParilli
    14 points is definitely better but 10 points with less than a minute in the game is pretty safe too. Either way the coaches don't agree with my theory , they know better and thats why I just watch the games on tv.
     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    To nobody in particular...

    Joe Montana is the only argument if Tom Brady isn't the greatest QB ever, personally I'd like him to retire with the only passing stat that matters; rings won.  If he wins more rings, his legacy will be sealed for ages when paired with the effeciency with whatever his stats are from this point forward.

    Dan Marino and Dan Fouts both threw for a ton of yards and aired it out, they are the patron saints of fantasy football, neither of them won a ring.  I truly don't think TB thinks of anything except winning, you might ask yourself why do you care if he throws 50 TD's again?

    He might be the best play action QB of all time, that only works when a defense fears that you'll run.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    To nobody in particular... Joe Montana is the only argument if Tom Brady isn't the greatest QB ever, personally I'd like him to retire with the only passing stat that matters; rings won.  If he wins more rings, his legacy will be sealed for ages when paired with the effeciency with whatever his stats are from this point forward. Dan Marino and Dan Fouts both threw for a ton of yards and aired it out, they are the patron saints of fantasy football, neither of them won a ring.  I truly don't think TB thinks of anything except winning, you might ask yourself why do you care if he throws 50 TD's again? He might be the best play action QB of all time, that only works when a defense fears that you'll run.
    Posted by wozzy



    When you're the 20th rated rushing team, you aren't going to scare many with the run threat.
     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : First of all that is not a contradiction. I never said that the Broncos have a good passing game. I said that a good passing game makes a defense better.  I do not think that the Broncos could have "protected" Orton. First of all, I do not think Orton is capable of running the option. Second, he throw interceptions at a much higher rate than Tebow. Orton threw 7 picks in 155 attempts while Tebow has thrown just 2 in 198 attempts. He may not be accurate, but he makes good decisions with the ball. He is definitely not "terrible". By the way, the Broncos threw more than the ran against the Bears (and moved the ball much better they more they threw the ball). I am not sure what makes you think we have a good running game. The Patriots average 4.0 yards per carry (good for 20th in the NFL). The NFL average YPC is 4.2 so by definition they are below average when they run the ball.  BJGE is down to 3.8 yards per carry and his numbers have gotten worse over the course of the season. Ridley has the only three runs over 20 yards by the Patriots this year (and those came back in week 4 - he has 83 yards on 30 carries since). Just for comparison Tebow has four 20+ yard runs - more than the entire Patriots team.
    Posted by FrnkBnhm


    Sorry if I came off as combative, I seem to have been on the defensive this entire thread.

    I don't think the Broncos ran the option until Tebow arrived, but the Dolphins had a late surge of greatness in them with Hall at QB also, some teams played better later with little training camp and off season, no doubt Denver played better when they started running more often and their defense magically got better.  

    Orton's final game as a starter they Broncos ran the ball 23 times, Tebow's first game as a starter they ran the ball 40 times, the game this past Sunday against the Bears they ran it 38 times. 

    Only Houston runs the ball more than the Broncos, just think if they started Tebow from the beginning they'd be at #1 in running attempts.  Look at the Bronco's schedule and look at how low scoring all the games were for the defense after Tebow took over and they ramped up the running attempts.

    I don't dispute that Orton isn't great but I stated that previously in this thread, and yeah Tebow threw it 40 times against the Bears but he only completed 21. In the playoffs 50% passing won't get you through the AFC championship game, the defenses are too good and everyone can stop the run. Do you recall what Green Bay and Detroit did to him?

    Another example could be Denver game one and two;
    Keyshon Moreno Game 1; 8 carries, 22 yards, 2.8 YPC Loss 
    McGahee starts Game 2; 28 carries, 101 yards, 3.6 YPC     Win

    After that their defense was terrible for stretches early, sure Orton wasn't great but he never was and they were moving it on the ground and scoring some points.

    The Pats average 4 yards a carry, not too bad, but the teams that average more attempts typically their average rises. The Pats have had no continuity at runningback either, but Ridely and Law Firm have been healthy almost the entire season. 

    Ridely averaging 4.8 yards a carry and dangerous in the pass game looks good to me. I prefer to make him the featured back and use Law Firm as a utility guy but that's a whole other thread entirely.

    We have Logan Mankins and Brian Waters at Guard, just about every one of our lineman has been or will go (Solder) to a Pro Bowl.  We've never been more talented at Oline during BB's tenure. 

    Yeah we can run the ball well if we choose to, we don't by design, player health or by ineptitude depending how you look at it.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : A team does what they do because they have SUCCESS doing it.
    Posted by Patsfansince1966


    Are you trying to say the Pats' brain trust thinks they have a better chance of success with Brady throwing to Gronk than they do handing it off to 3.8 yards a carry Benny?

    There are actually only 3 teams in the NFL that average less yards a carry than BJGE.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : Are you trying to say the Pats' brain trust thinks they have a better chance of success with Brady throwing to Gronk than they do handing it off to 3.8 yards a carry Benny? There are actually only 3 teams in the NFL that average less yards a carry than BJGE.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Parelli when Patsfan66 (the only troll on this thread) is the only person consistently agreeing with you, then you need to re-evaluate your position.
     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : We can agree to disagree on whether Brady threw a bad pass or the reciever executed the route improperly, or even if the decision to throw to him was valid. But we cannot agree to disagree in regard to O'Brien inturrupting Brady relating the issue he had with what the receiver did.  O'Brien could have informed Brady of his deficiencies on the play after Brady concluded with Underwood if he had to. Barging in was just trying to show up Brady and when the reaction wasn't all cherry sweet and apple blossoms O'Brian melted down like a fool.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    O'Brien did what any coach would do in that situation: intervene in a shouting match between two of his plasyers. What compounded this is that Brady, very apparently tried to lay the INT sat Underwood's feet. Sorry, but insisting the WR fight for the ball to break up an INT means the ball should hsve never been thrown there in the first place. What kind of "defense" for his actions is that? The point would have more validity IF Underwood was wide open and dropped a clear TD pass. Even then, the star QB, read: team leader, does NOT got publically after him on the sidelines. As it is, he did so on HIS poor decision to throw the pass. Perhaps Brady is becoming a little personal stats aware, like our friend Old Horseface, who we love to accuse of beholding to his own personal glory?  Maybe.....

    In my opinion, Brady just compounded his error by him sideline antics. Perhaps out of frustration? Who knows but Brady. In any case team leaders, especially the ones who, week-to-week in interviews, expouse "we gotta do this better", do not act this way during a game. O'Brien was justified in stepping in. Any coach would do that. Can't let the inmates run the asylum.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    To nobody in particular... Joe Montana is the only argument if Tom Brady isn't the greatest QB ever, personally I'd like him to retire with the only passing stat that matters; rings won.  If he wins more rings, his legacy will be sealed for ages when paired with the effeciency with whatever his stats are from this point forward. Dan Marino and Dan Fouts both threw for a ton of yards and aired it out, they are the patron saints of fantasy football, neither of them won a ring. 
    Posted by wozzy


    I hate this argument. So Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino? Brad Johnson is better than Warren Moon? What if Steve Young never got out of Tampa Bay? Football is a team game. Players cannot control who else is on their team (especially in the days of guys like Fouts and Marino when free agency was much more limited). For a much of Fouts career, SD had one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

    I do think Brady is among the best quarterbacks ever, but I just hate this idea that it all comes down to rings. In that case, over the past six years Roethlisberger is the best QB in the NFL (2 rings), and both Mannings, Brees and Rodgers (one ring each) are all better than Brady during that time. 

    Ironically, those are the years that Brady puts up the statistics that really got him into the discussion of greatest QB ever. 

    I still give my vote to Montana because he put up his best two statistical seasons in years that his team won the Super Bowl (84 and 89). His QB rating in the playoff is higher than it is in the regular season and actually gets better in every round. By comparison, Brady's playoff QBR is over 10 points lower than his regular season (85.7 vs 96.2).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Analyzing the interception.

    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception.:
    In Response to Re: Analyzing the interception. : Yours doesn't either, then. I suspect Bedard operates closer to the Pats than you or I do, though, but what does that matter? And who's to say said FG that everyone wants more than a TD isn't blocked? Why did everyone  want a FG in that  situation? Isn't a 14 point lead better than a 10  point l ead?
    Posted by Patsfansince1966


    Proof that people incapable of thinking for themselves will believe anything anyone in the media says, as long as it's something they either truly believe in (Brady's the greatest thing since canned ravioli and sliced bread),  or something they want to believe in (if an offensive play goes bad/wrong, it's NOT the fault of the future HOF QB). 
     
    Question: When was the FIRST or LAST time Bedard closely analyzed a play that Brady clearly messed up, such as his over throwing Welker? I think that was way too obvious a play to blame someone else, so Bedard has no possible way to blame someone else.

    !4 point vs 10 point lead? I can see that'd a HUGE problem, seeing how the Pats DFL defense would naturally give up a TD and then the special teams would naturally gak up the onside kick, right? Oh, by the way, WHEN they gave up the onside kick, that great DFL defense would have easily surrendered another TD, seeing they have proven they have no capability to stop a Pop Warner team. Doesn't say much about the difference between a 14 or 10 point lead, does it? Now, don't even go there by claiming that the INT prevented the 'Skins from scoring the TD. After all, your arguement is that they would have been better off with a 14 point lead vs the potential 10. Seems to me that giving up 2 late TD's would have forced an OT, like what would have happened if the 'Skins did score the tying TD instead of the INT. (I see how fully analyzing your argument first isn't your forte.)

    Funny but you never did answer why Brady didn't throw to Gronk, clearly open in the end zone with his defender BEHIND him. Not that Gronk isn't capable of 1) catching a high throw  2) scoring a TD on a high throw. It's like Brady got  Airplane Syndrome: No, THAT'S what they expect!!!
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share