Anatomy of a Choke.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : No - this board of pats fans said it last year about a colts team that went to the superbowl.  Its not my premise.  Not my criteria.  Its the board's.  If you don't believe it about the pats this year, then you must not have believed it about the colts last year, but the only dissenting opinions last year on this board came from colts fans like me.  If you were silent, you tacitly accepted the premise.   Thus, by the pats not even meeting the board's criteria for the colts, they get the label as they labeled the colts. Own it.  
    Posted by UD6

    You have such a sad perspective on life.  But relative to the posters we have been subjected to for the last week, your spelling, grammar, and ability to construct a logical argument are impeccable. Still weird to me that you are here, but I will leave it alone going forward.  

    Oh, and the Clots su¢k.  Just Sayin'-

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kingliar. Show kingliar's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Anatomy of a Choke.:
    What is the definition of "choke" in sports? Here is one definition: "In sports , a choke is the failure of an athlete or an athletic team to win a game or tournament when the player or team had been strongly favored to win or had squandered a large lead in the late stages of the event. Someone who chokes may be known as a choker or, more derisively, as a choke artist . Choking in sport can be considered a form of analysis paralysis ."   -Wikipedia Here is another definition: 'To choke' is a phrase used to refer to athletes who are typically very good in their sports but fail to deliver in key situations. The immense pressure of these key moments tends to overwhelm them and they end up making an uncharacteristic mistake. Although this phrase is used most often in the context of American Football, it can apply to any sport when a normally reliable athlete fails. For example, this phrase is often used to describe Peyton Manning, who as the revered quarterback of the Indianapolis Colts has failed multiple times in big moments (for instance, when he threw an interception to lose Super Bowl 44 late in the game).  -Sports Definitions The opposite of choking is to be clutch . A clutch player or team rises to the occasion under pressure rather than collapsing.  -Wikipedia No one enjoys seeing their team choke, but if the opposite of "choke" is "clutch" then what happened to the Pats and Belichick Sunday against the Jets? Were the Pats clutch against the Jets last Sunday? No.  The Pats, and especially Belichick and Brady, choked under pressure and coughed up the biggest game of the season, the only one that really counted for anything. There is no better example of choking in the 2011 NFL season than the Pats v Jets game:  in fact the Pats should now be considered the Poster Boys for choking and coughing up a big game. After beating the Jets in a blowout a few weeks earlier did they forget the "on any given Sunday" mantra:  did they believe the media spin:  did they fail to take the Jet's bluster and mouthy, trash-talking seriously:  did they think that they only had to show up in order to win? All that bye time to prepare, and BB could not get his team ready?  That trick play at an inopportune time that should never have been on the table, then trying to throw a player under the bus for the coaches blunder?  A slow drive to nowhere with the clock running down?  A symbolic benching of Welker for even one series that sent the wrong message to your team (thank you Mr. Wilfork for being a man and speaking truth to power)?  Now the spin-miester, the Patriot Way, with Brady's foot?  Ridic-u-bobble! Organizational choke from the top down. Of course Belichick and Brady don't bear sole responsibility for the loss and are not the only ones who choked, in fact, it was a long term organizational choke that was a longtime coming. But Tom "Happy Feet" Brady and Belichick drive the train and are the men at the controls, so when the train runs off the track and crashes it's primarily the engineers who must bear the brunt of the blame. It's difficult for some fans to "fess up" and admit that their heroes choked and coughed up a big game under pressure, but this is not the first time: look at the playoff record of recent years:  It's choke after choke after choke, and I call that a trend, a distinct, disturbing trend.  But the Kool-aiders will never fess-up and admit that their infallible heroes choked and stunk up the place but will instead rest on the cliche that the Jets simply outplayed them.  No, the Pats choked. In Belichick you can trust all you want, but show me the money, show me why we should still trust him and Brady.  Because they won 3 Super Bowls many years ago?  And the Kool-Aid fans still insist that we should be grateful for a good regular season of 14 - 2, when everyone understands that the regular season only exists to get to the playoffs where it's a new season, where it's one and done, and its been done for the Pats for many years now. How many years can they coast by on past accomplishments while the Krafts print profits from their money machine by putting a decent product out there but always trying to win on the cheap while fans line up to hand over their hard earned money for the some of the highest ticket prices in the NFL, if not the highest. In Bill we trust?  Pleeeese!  Pahsahw!  Such naive BS! They say a fish rots from the head down.  Something stinks in Foxboro. Nuff said.  End of story. 
    Posted by RajonRondowski

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kingliar. Show kingliar's posts

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    Posted by kingliar


         They did look flat, some of the calls were odd, the time management was poor. The last 4 teams remaining in the playoffs have one significant aspect in common; great defense, usually coming with a good to great pass rush. The Pats defense is not ready. Thye have no pass rush [ and one wonders why after so many stock-piled drafts], they need size at CB, Merriweather IS too much like Tebucky Jones, and the LB group doesnt have a single player who, like McGinest or Bruschi or Vrabel, can make the critical play at the critical time. [Mayo is a tackling machine, great athlete but I dont see the big plays often enough]. 
          They also need to upgrade at WR.   
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

         Pats' fans...don't argue with the trolls. You're defending the indefensible. The Patriots were awful last week. It was a combination of poor execution, with Brady looking like a rookie throwing that inexcusable pick while trying to force a play that wasn't there, instead of merely throwing the ball away...the subsequent Crumpler crumpling of a sure TD pass...and the Patrick Chung game-killing muff. 

         The rest of the game had the Jets taking advantage of the flawed Patriots' defense. The inability of this team to rush the passer made Mark Sanchez look like an all-world QB. With the time he was given, he was easily able to make plays against the very mediocre NE secondary. Give the Jets their due. They brought their "A" game, while the Pats brought their "C" game. The Jets were the better team last Sunday. Rather than continue to dissect this disappointing  defeat...accept it, and move on.

         The trolls' claims that the Patriots' best days are behind them are laughable. This is a young team that finished with a league best 14-2 record, which has a bevy of high draft choices in the upcoming draft. If the Pats use those picks as wisely as they used their picks last season, they'll take the next step in 2011.  
               
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    They definitely need to improve the pass rush, but remember this team went 14-2. They scored over 30 points per game. Was offense really an issue? You really think they need an upgrade at WR? I think they have an ideal set for a guy like brady who likes to spread the ball around. And who are you getting rid of? They'll have Branch, Welker, Tate, Edelman, and Price under contract next year. Hernandez plays more like a WR too and probably takes snaps from any WR. I don't know if there's room for more bodies. 

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. :      They did look flat, some of the calls were odd, the time management was poor. The last 4 teams remaining in the playoffs have one significant aspect in common; great defense, usually coming with a good to great pass rush. The Pats defense is not ready. Thye have no pass rush [ and one wonders why after so many stock-piled drafts], they need size at CB, Merriweather IS too much like Tebucky Jones, and the LB group doesnt have a single player who, like McGinest or Bruschi or Vrabel, can make the critical play at the critical time. [Mayo is a tackling machine, great athlete but I dont see the big plays often enough].        They also need to upgrade at WR.   
    Posted by kingliar

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    We have different opinions and will probably never agree about what the real issue is (and that doesn't matter anyway), but thanks for keeping the convo civil. Too many times on this site differences in opinion turn into name calling arguments. I'm ready to move on and watch this team get more talented in the offseason and cross my fingers that postseason success will follow another good regular season. If you're ever near section 104 pregame next year look me up.  In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000



    You're welcome Rockdog . . . we may be disagreeing but I can tell you're a serious, passionate fan and not one of these bandwagon whiners who seem to have shown up in droves on this board since last weekend.  

    I do agree with you that the Pats--if not a perfect team--weren't any worse than a lot of the other playoff teams.  (Though I think the Packers are the real deal this year and only struggled midseason because of all their injuries.)  I just think the Pats offense is still vulnerable to being shut down by a good defense because it's not versatile enough and there aren't great weapons outside of the short passing game. I think we need a better running game and better wideouts.  Add those, and I don't think BB and Brady will be laying eggs in the playoffs anymore. 

    I'd also add, I think BB needs help at Offensive Coordinator.  I think they could use a more creative guy there.  A lot of times during this season (especially early on and then again in the playoffs), that offense seemed to go flat.  I think the shotgun was overused.  I think we need to do more with Brady under center.  Hopefully, that's something we see more of next year. 

    I will try to find you down in 104 next year.  I'm up in 313 but I'm hoping to upgrade this year.  We'll see where I end up . . . 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:



    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : You're welcome Rockdog . . . we may be disagreeing but I can tell you're a serious, passionate fan and not one of these bandwagon whiners who seem to have shown up in droves on this board since last weekend.   I do agree with you that the Pats--if not a perfect team--weren't any worse than a lot of the other playoff teams.  (Though I think the Packers are the real deal this year and only struggled midseason because of all their injuries.)  I just think the Pats offense is still vulnerable to being shut down by a good defense because it's not versatile enough and there aren't great weapons outside of the short passing game. I think we need a better running game and better wideouts.  Add those, and I don't think BB and Brady will be laying eggs in the playoffs anymore.  I'd also add, I think BB needs help at Offensive Coordinator.  I think they could use a more creative guy there.  A lot of times during this season (especially early on and then again in the playoffs), that offense seemed to go flat.  I think the shotgun was overused.  I think we need to do more with Brady under center.  Hopefully, that's something we see more of next year.  I will try to find you down in 104 next year.  I'm up in 313 but I'm hoping to upgrade this year.  We'll see where I end up . . . 

    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    -

    After all that arguing over a word "choke" it seems that you at least agree the the Pat's, in your own words, have been laying eggs in the playoffs.  And I'd guess that you're referring to stinky eggs, not the pretty eggs of Easter.  LoL

    "I think we need a better running game and better wideouts.  Add those, and I don't think BB and Brady will be laying eggs in the playoffs anymore." 

    I'd also add, I think BB needs help at Offensive Coordinator."

    They say the first step to recovery is to admit that you need help.

    And I guess an egg by another name is still an egg and so is a choke, to paraphrase a famous expression about a rose is a rose, or "a rose by any other name smells just as sweet", and so a choke by another name is still a horrible loss in a big game by an over-confidant, under-prepared, unable to adjust team.  Call it what you will, I call it a choke, as it fits that definition as it's been applied in football, forever.  It's still just another L, another L in the playoffs.

    Well, they brought us tantalizingly, damn close, but this loss won't be moved on from so easily by the Pats, as Teddy B. has implied, so I hope that the needed changes, that seem so obvious to everyone on this forum, are addressed by the Patriot's brain trust.  If so, next season can be awesome too.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    I totally agree about Green bay. I think they probably could beat the pats this year no matter how well the pats play. I also wouldn't mind them winning since they seem to be decent bunch of guys. No dbs like the jets. 

    I'm wondering if BB is going to tweak the staff. I would add it might be nice to have a RB like Forte who you could utilize more on passing plays (BJGE is fine but not great out of the backfield). We'll see. They have a bunch of ammo to land some impact players. 
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : You're welcome Rockdog . . . we may be disagreeing but I can tell you're a serious, passionate fan and not one of these bandwagon whiners who seem to have shown up in droves on this board since last weekend.   I do agree with you that the Pats--if not a perfect team--weren't any worse than a lot of the other playoff teams.  (Though I think the Packers are the real deal this year and only struggled midseason because of all their injuries.)  I just think the Pats offense is still vulnerable to being shut down by a good defense because it's not versatile enough and there aren't great weapons outside of the short passing game. I think we need a better running game and better wideouts.  Add those, and I don't think BB and Brady will be laying eggs in the playoffs anymore.  I'd also add, I think BB needs help at Offensive Coordinator.  I think they could use a more creative guy there.  A lot of times during this season (especially early on and then again in the playoffs), that offense seemed to go flat.  I think the shotgun was overused.  I think we need to do more with Brady under center.  Hopefully, that's something we see more of next year.  I will try to find you down in 104 next year.  I'm up in 313 but I'm hoping to upgrade this year.  We'll see where I end up . . . 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid

     
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    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : - After all that arguing over a word "choke" it seems that you at least agree the the Pat's, in your own words, have been laying eggs in the playoffs.  
    Posted by RajonRondowski


    Well you choke at one end and lay eggs at the other, but okay . . . a problem with an orifice is a problem with an orifice . . .  and whatever hole it is, the Pats definitely are in a hole . . .

    So maybe we kind of agree . .  . 


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    Watching the CHOKE documentary on CBS channel 2 right now!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cloudyandrain. Show Cloudyandrain's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    BB will be aggressive during the offseason. I know BB will bring a pass rusher and maybe a good running back , a OLB, and a DL.

    He was aggressive after the 2002 disappointed season.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    BB will be aggressive during the offseason. I know BB will bring a pass rusher and maybe a good running back , a OLB, and a DL. He was aggressive after the 2002 disappointed season.
    Posted by Cloudyandrain


         In no way does this season compare to 2002, when those defenseless Pats finished 9-7, and failed to make the play-offs. The Matt Cassel led 2008 edition more closely compares to that 2002 squad.

         The 2010 Pats finished at 14-2, had the #1 seed in the play-offs, and then proceeded to lay an egg at home in the play-offs. The Patriots failed to execute against the Jets, as they had against all comers, throughout the season. In other words, they choked.

         What else can be said? Time to move on, and look forward to the upcoming draft.
     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    Watching the CHOKE documentary on CBS channel 2 right now!
    Posted by BradyMossFan


    But not as big as pats, right?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : But not as big as pats, right?
    Posted by UD6


    Or the Colts, right?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    jets s-u-c-k
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : Or the Colts, right?
    Posted by gr82bme

    Is there a colts fan making outrageous choke comments regarding the Jets?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : Is there a colts fan making outrageous choke comments regarding the Jets?
    Posted by UD6


    Not that I've seen.  And if Pats fans with a brain took a second to think about it, neither would they.  That said, you're on a Pats forum, as you are with frequency.  I've never been to a Colts forum, so I don't know what their feelings are about chocking.  I do know that you make it a point to come on here this evening instead of licking your wounds with your fellow Colts fans, so perhaps you've not been to a Colts forum as well.  Given that, how do you know whether or not Colts fans are talking about chocking or not? 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : Not that I've seen.  And if Pats fans with a brain took a second to think about it, neither would they.  That said, you're on a Pats forum, as you are with frequency.  I've never been to a Colts forum, so I don't know what their feelings are about chocking.  I do know that you make it a point to come on here this evening instead of licking your wounds with your fellow Colts fans, so perhaps you've not been to a Colts forum as well.  Given that, how do you know whether or not Colts fans are talking about chocking or not? 
    Posted by gr82bme

    But they do, and they haven't stopped, and there are a multitude of them. 

    As for what colts fans are doing on colts forums.  No, tonight, I do not know if they are talking about choking.  Regardless, its irrelevant to what some are saying here, right?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : But they do, and they haven't stopped, and there are a multitude of them.  As for what colts fans are doing on colts forums.  No, tonight, I do not know if they are talking about choking.  Regardless, its irrelevant to what some are saying here, right?
    Posted by UD6


    How would you know it's irrelevant if you've not seen that the Colts fans have been posting about?  You see, that's my point.  You're here flaming about what Pats fans are doing (or not), but as a Colts fan you're not even up-to-date about what your own fan base is talking about on their forums.  As usual, you're simply here in to dog (pardon the pun) us Pats fans sans any credible perspective as to what the Colts fans are talking about.  Hypocrisity, thy name is doggggpoop.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. :     

    In no way does this season compare to 2002, when those defenseless Pats finished 9-7, and failed to make the play-offs. The Matt Cassel led 2008 edition more closely compares to that 2002 squad.     

    The 2010 Pats finished at 14-2, had the #1 seed in the play-offs, and then proceeded to lay an egg at home in the play-offs. The Patriots failed to execute against the Jets, as they had against all comers, throughout the season. In other words, they choked.     

    What else can be said? Time to move on, and look forward to the upcoming draft.  

    Posted by TexasPat3



    -

    "The 2010 Pats finished at 14-2, had the #1 seed in the play-offs, and then proceeded to lay an egg at home in the play-offs. The Patriots failed to execute against the Jets, as they had against all comers, throughout the season. In other words, they choked."

    TP


    Amen, Brother.

    "What else can be said.  Time to move on and look forward to the upcoming draft."

    TP

    And Halleujeha, I have seen the light!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : How would you know it's irrelevant if you've not seen that the Colts fans have been posting about?  You see, that's my point.  You're here flaming about what Pats fans are doing (or not), but as a Colts fan you're not even up-to-date about what your own fan base is talking about on their forums.  As usual, you're simply here in to dog (pardon the pun) us Pats fans sans any credible perspective as to what the Colts fans are talking about.  Hypocrisity, thy name is doggggpoop.
    Posted by gr82bme

    Its irrelevant because we are on this board.  That is what the comment was and what you responded to.  If you want to know what is going on on a different board, then go there and find out. 

    As for credible perspective, I simply didn't understand why pats fans would be talking about a jets choke today after the jets manhandled the pats last week.  You agreed with me and now are suggesting I am without credible perspective.  Either you don't consider yourself credible, you are lying, or you are just not thinking.  Whatever the case, you are wrong.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : How would you know it's irrelevant if you've not seen that the Colts fans have been posting about?  You see, that's my point.  You're here flaming about what Pats fans are doing (or not), but as a Colts fan you're not even up-to-date about what your own fan base is talking about on their forums.  As usual, you're simply here in to dog (pardon the pun) us Pats fans sans any credible perspective as to what the Colts fans are talking about.  Hypocrisity, thy name is doggggpoop.
    Posted by gr82bme



    He will never discuss that point.  I keep trying to get him to.  He has Patriot envy.  The Sparkly Blue Ponies aren't enough for him...  he needs his Patriots fix.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : Its irrelevant because we are on this board.  That is what the comment was and what you responded to.  If you want to know what is going on on a different board, then go there and find out.  As for credible perspective, I simply didn't understand why pats fans would be talking about a jets choke today after the jets manhandled the pats last week.  You agreed with me and now are suggesting I am without credible perspective.  Either you don't consider yourself credible, you are lying, or you are just not thinking.  Whatever the case, you are wrong.
    Posted by UD6


    Man, you just don't get it, but that's not surprising.  I fully understand some Pats fans are crying over spilt milk.  You understand that also, but you're here casting flys sans knowledge of what you're own fan base is talking about.  Pray tell, why are you here instead of on one of your own fan sites?  Are the Indy sites just that darn boring?  Are you intellectually too far ahead of your fellow fans, or too far behind?  What gives?  It must be easy to visit a place and opine about how bad the hosts are, yet you don't even see the faults in your own house.  Okay, I get you.  You feel alot better about yourself sitting on the fence of another fan base's site.  Yet another jealous fan wishing to all heaven that you had the success this fan base enjoys, thus when we do take one on the chin, you're envy turns to na-na-nah-na-na.  Alrighty then, Pats lost to the Jets.  Gosh, we must stink.  By the way, where are the Colts playing next week?  Oh right, they're not.  Same as us.  Feel better little man?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kt888. Show kt888's posts

    Re: Anatomy of a Choke.

    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke.:
    In Response to Re: Anatomy of a Choke. : Its irrelevant because we are on this board.  That is what the comment was and what you responded to.  If you want to know what is going on on a different board, then go there and find out.  As for credible perspective, I simply didn't understand why pats fans would be talking about a jets choke today after the jets manhandled the pats last week.  You agreed with me and now are suggesting I am without credible perspective.  Either you don't consider yourself credible, you are lying, or you are just not thinking.  Whatever the case, you are wrong.
    Posted by UD6



    The Jets "manhandled" the Patriots?  A 7 point game?  The Pats play their worst game of the season and still kept it close.  Your Jets got lucky - the Pats had a bad game.  

    If a 7 point game is "manhandled," how would how would you characterize the 45-3 game?  You sound ridiculous.

    Guess the Jets just got manhandled by the Steelers too?
     
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