And the New England Patriots Select...
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Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:00 PM EST
- Rockdog1293000
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My point about height is that to be a #1 wideout you need it, but you don't for a top pass rusher. It's not inconsistent at all. A taller wideout can outjump a CB, while a shorter OLB will be able to move quicker than a taller OLB. I'm talking about pure pass rushing skills. Look at Jerome Harrison, Dwight Freeney, and Dumerville. TBC is quicker off the snap than the taller A Thomas. Why is that? Shorter pass rushers tend to be more successful than taller ones for OUTSIDE pass rushers. Why do the Pats pick shorter corners? Because they have better quickness and change of direction skills than taller players all things equal. They have better 3 cone times. Well, a shorter OLB will have better movement skills than a taller OLB all things equal. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:01 PM EST
- Rockdog1293000
- Posts: 1138
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I agree that Graham is not a DE in a 3-4. That's silly. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:02 PM EST
- Rockdog1293000
- Posts: 1138
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But I have seen several publication having Graham at #22. Our boy Reiss thinks it's a good idea too. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:14 PM EST
- m1020us
- Posts: 4851
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hi -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:17 PM EST
- mthurl
- Posts: 7196
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No way Graham is there at 22. There are to many teams playing the 34 to expect him to last that long. His play during senior bowl week assured that. Last year the chargers took Larry English in the teens and he was as short as Graham, but a lot lighter in the pants.
thats the problem with playing the 34 nowadays, your competing with half the league for the same type of players. I think the pats take him if he is even there at that point, this guy plays like Lamar Woodley. Tate wouldn't be a bad consolation price as well and this team needs talented players almost everywere. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:27 PM EST
- Radionowhere228
- Posts: 32
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In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select... : I haven't seen any reputable draft publications projecting Graham to DE in a 3-4 and especially not in NE. He's 6-1 263, he'd get mauled as a 3-4 D-lineman.
Posted by mbeaulieu07
Your right... I thought I heard someone say that he could play DE in a 3-4 system, but yeah he definitely doesn't have the size to play one the line. However, that doesn't mean that the Pats should still look at him. Despite the fact that he may be shorter than BB ideal OLB, Graham has shown that he is possibly one of the best pass rushers in this draft class. So now the question remains, can he effective play OLB in the 3-4 system, and I totally agree that BB and the Pats should not take a risk with their 1st round pick -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:28 PM EST
- mbeaulieu07
- Posts: 5712
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In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:My point about height is that to be a #1 wideout you need it, but you don't for a top pass rusher. It's not inconsistent at all. A taller wideout can outjump a CB, while a shorter OLB will be able to move quicker than a taller OLB. I'm talking about pure pass rushing skills. Look at Jerome Harrison, Dwight Freeney, and Dumerville. TBC is quicker off the snap than the taller A Thomas. Why is that? Shorter pass rushers tend to be more successful than taller ones for OUTSIDE pass rushers. Why do the Pats pick shorter corners? Because they have better quickness and change of direction skills than taller players all things equal. They have better 3 cone times. Well, a shorter OLB will have better movement skills than a taller OLB all things equal.
Posted by Rockdog1293000
There's a lot more to a #1 receiver than height and you don't need it to be one, how tall is Steve Smith (Car) or Steve Smith (NYG) or Reggie Wayne or Hines Ward/Santonio Holmes or DeSean Jackson or Greg Jennings/Donald Driver or Chad Ochocinco or Anquan Boldin or Derrick Mason to name a few? 5-10 to 6-1, Tate is 5-11. Shorter WR's can't have good verticals allowing them to out jump DB's?
Sure there are some talented "shorter" OLB's in the NFL I'm not denying that, but what you're missing is BB doesn't like them and/or doesn't draft them high.
I wouldn't mind drafting guys more based on skill set vs. height, but I'm not running their draft room so I try to project based on what their known preferences are. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:34 PM EST
- wonderdrums
- Posts: 293
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The majority of BB succcess has been in drafting linemen. I dont see him gambling on a "skill" position player in the first round. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:36 PM EST
- mthurl
- Posts: 7196
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This guy Tate kind of reminds me of Hines Ward when he was young. They both don't look physicaly impossing, both have that doughy look to them. But the run after the catch and that running back style of player with the ball in their hands are simmilar. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:39 PM EST
- Rockdog1293000
- Posts: 1138
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Good points re the shorter receivers. It'd be fun to be in the draft room and see the dynamics behind it. In the end it's a crap shoot. I mean who thought Vollmer would be such a beast, and he wasn't even invited to the combine. Shorter receivers can be good too, just not in the Moss/Fitz mode. But having Marvin Harrison for 10 years (before he started shooting at people) wouldn't be a bad thing, which helps your argument. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:43 PM EST
- russgriswold
- Posts: 3621
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In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:Tate is Great! No really, I watched several ND games this past season and to say I was impressed is an understatement. This guy is tough and has great hands. He is small for a WR, but so is Steve Smith, the guy he reminds me of. IMO, no one should be thinking Welker in 2010. If he comes back great, but im not expecting him. Bottom line this team has too many holes to fill. It will be a few years before this team is good again.
Posted by patsfaninsatx
I heard that after 2002 and 2006. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:45 PM EST
- mbeaulieu07
- Posts: 5712
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In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:But I have seen several publication having Graham at #22. Our boy Reiss thinks it's a good idea too.
Posted by Rockdog1293000
I respect Reiss for his coverage of the Pat's, but I'd debate these same points with him too. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:45 PM EST
- arodrambone
- Posts: 2653
- First: 12/9/2012
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Tate would be a safe pick for a WR. There are a few bigger guys I also like, one of which will be available in the second.
Brandon Tate might be a bit too similar, even if Golden seems to run better routes.
We need a big possession receiver who can also go long and block like a champ, and there are 2-3 of them ranked in the top 50. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:51 PM EST
- mbeaulieu07
- Posts: 5712
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In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:Good points re the shorter receivers. It'd be fun to be in the draft room and see the dynamics behind it. In the end it's a crap shoot. I mean who thought Vollmer would be such a beast, and he wasn't even invited to the combine. Shorter receivers can be good too, just not in the Moss/Fitz mode. But having Marvin Harrison for 10 years (before he started shooting at people) wouldn't be a bad thing, which helps your argument.
Posted by Rockdog1293000
I'd rather have a seat in the draft room than a ticket to a Pat's playoff game because it'd be such a rare opportunity to see how things operate behind the scenes.
Yes, Vollmer to this point has reflected an excellent job done by the NE scouting department. 2006-2008 were lackluster to say the least, so I'm hoping the 2009 birth was the rebirth to quality scouting, drafting and player development. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 7:54 PM EST
- mbeaulieu07
- Posts: 5712
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In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:Tate would be a safe pick for a WR. There are a few bigger guys I also like, one of which will be available in the second. Brandon Tate might be a bit too similar, even if Golden seems to run better routes. We need a big possession receiver who can also go long and block like a champ, and there are 2-3 of them ranked in the top 50.
Posted by arodrambone
Eric Decker (6-3 215 Minnesota) is a big, potential outside/possession guy that interests me and might be had in round 4 as he'll probably fall due to a foot injury that'll keep him out until May/June, preventing him from performing in any pre-draft events. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 9:25 PM EST
- papifan111
- Posts: 99
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I had the privelage of seeing the beat down the ravens handed to us in the playoffs so yes i agree and would love to have a ticket to the pats draft room to see exactly wat the hell is running through their heads.
Brady NEEDS weapons because too often had the offense shutdown come late and that extra weapon would prevent that, and boy without welker Moss is shutdown and you saw what the ravens did at that point.
But with that said we need a pass rush obv, and drafting one in the 2nd round should be done but they need a veteran like Peppers or even Dumervil/Dansby to help the defense for a few years to develop these drafted players. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 9:32 PM EST
- mbeaulieu07
- Posts: 5712
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Here's my current projection. It would fill needs on offense (WR, TE, OT) and defense (pass rush 3-4 OLB and ILB).
22- Tate
44- Jerry Hughes- OLB TCU
47- Aaron Hernandez- TE Florida
53- Kyle Calloway- OT Iowa
117- AJ Edds- ILB Iowa -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 10:23 PM EST
- One-If-By-Sea
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In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:I had the privelage of seeing the beat down the ravens handed to us in the playoffs Posted by papifan111
So did I. I don't think a pass rush would have done us any good - the Ravens did not pass, they ran over us even when we knew they were going to run. I am at a loss how we can not take a DE with the 22nd pick. Seymour gone and Baltimore made it obvious that we will be last in the league in run defense without a right defensive end. Maybe I missed something. Brace, Pryor, Wright, Green at right defensive end? I do not think so. BB history is D-Line or TE in the 1st round, and this year it will be D-Line - count on it. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 10:36 PM EST
- patriots44
- Posts: 828
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Tate is not going to the Pats at 22. He might be there in the early second round to the Chiefs. Pats are going for TCU Hughes or Odrick Penn State. 2nd round Look for Running back out of Fresno State Ryan Mathews Tight End Gronkowski Arizona and maybee Ricky Sapp Clemson. I would love to see them take Graham out of Michigan, but they will pass on his Height. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 10:51 PM EST
- papifan111
- Posts: 99
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I still believe they should try and get at least one of Dumervil, Peppers, or Dansby via free agency or trade because they really could use the experience and of course the value of such great Linebackers to ease the drafting process and not have to draft for need but for availability that we havent had the privelage of much in the past. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 11:36 PM EST
- MordecaiBloodmoon
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papifan, not going to happen. Dumervil, is a RFA, would cost picks and a ton of cash. Peppers is not a fit, he is 30 and has never been an OLB, so no thanks. Dansby I like, but he will want wayyyy toooo much cash too. He will warrant 7-8 mil per and we wont pay that for him. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/14/2010 11:59 PM EST
- DaBlade
- Posts: 1619
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Whoever it is just let it be someone who is a force for years to come. -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/15/2010 8:35 AM EST
- m1021us
- Posts: 0
- First: 6/29/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:I had the privelage of seeing the beat down the ravens handed to us in the playoffs so yes i agree and would love to have a ticket to the pats draft room to see exactly wat the hell is running through their heads. Brady NEEDS weapons because too often had the offense shutdown come late and that extra weapon would prevent that, and boy without welker Moss is shutdown and you saw what the ravens did at that point. But with that said we need a pass rush obv, and drafting one in the 2nd round should be done but they need a veteran like Peppers or even Dumervil/Dansby to help the defense for a few years to develop these drafted players.
Posted by papifan111
The offense needs a playmaker...someone who can get open at the crucial times.... -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/15/2010 8:44 AM EST
- papifan111
- Posts: 99
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thats where i see them trying to go offense early this year...whether OT/WR/RB/TE -
Re: And the New England Patriots Select...
posted at 2/15/2010 9:12 AM EST
- mbeaulieu07
- Posts: 5712
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In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select... : The offense needs a playmaker...someone who can get open at the crucial times....
Posted by m1021us
Put on some tape of Golden Tate, that's what he did game after game after game......