Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9246386/miami-dolphins-pay-stadium-fixes-ceo-mike-dee

    Looks like the Fins might not be staying in Miami for long.  Seriously, how cheap is their ownership? Ross and Dee have combined net worths of over $5 Billion and yet they're b*tching that the state won't help fund the renovations to their stadium?  Kraft built Gilette from the ground up without state funding or scamming the fans through PSLs.  

    We have arguably the best ownership in all of sports, couple that with one of the best GM/coaches and QB's of all-time which makes us beyond spoiled.  Witnessing other teams' turmoil makes me even more grateful for what we have here in NE.  

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

     

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9246386/miami-dolphins-pay-stadium-fixes-ceo-mike-dee

    Looks like the Fins might not be staying in Miami for long.  Seriously, how cheap is their ownership? Ross and Dee have combined net worths of over $5 Billion and yet they're b*tching that the state won't help fund the renovations to their stadium?  Kraft built Gilette from the ground up without state funding or scamming the fans through PSLs.  

    We have arguably the best ownership in all of sports, couple that with one of the best GM/coaches and QB's of all-time which makes us beyond spoiled.  Witnessing other teams' turmoil makes me even more grateful for what we have here in NE.  

     




    Well, I suggested they were making all these splash desperation FA moves for a reason. They spent a lot of money on those moves.  It's boom or bust for them in 2013 and if Tannehill has a sophmore slump (he faded in late 2012), they may not get one of the 2 wildcards.

     

    I am telling ya, some of these teams were struggling badly into the lockout. I still wonder why Indy didn't bid on Welker. New stadium, SB hosts, major cap space and now real big moves. Hmm.

    Florida is a terrible market in general, but add in their unemployment rate and a horrendous economy, and teams like Jax, Buffalo is in trouble, SD has stadium issues, etc.

    LA is sitting there with control of who to take out there. And, Goodell keeps pushing London.

    Note the logo changes by Miami and the Vikes. Each is in the midst of some financial issues and are desperate to generate revenue.

    Makes our whiny pink helmets here with Kraft and BB  laying the foundation here look absolutely pathetic.

    I have been saying this for almost 3 years now. If you didn't get your projected ROI into that lockout, you're in trouble off the lockout.

    It took a few years for bigger operating entities like the NFL franchises to feel the hit of this economy, and here it is.

     

     




    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9246386/miami-dolphins-pay-stadium-fixes-ceo-mike-dee

    Looks like the Fins might not be staying in Miami for long.  Seriously, how cheap is their ownership? Ross and Dee have combined net worths of over $5 Billion and yet they're b*tching that the state won't help fund the renovations to their stadium?  Kraft built Gilette from the ground up without state funding or scamming the fans through PSLs.  

    We have arguably the best ownership in all of sports, couple that with one of the best GM/coaches and QB's of all-time which makes us beyond spoiled.  Witnessing other teams' turmoil makes me even more grateful for what we have here in NE.  



    Top to bottom, the New England Patriots are the best franchise in sports - period.  And as I have said in other threads, if that makes me a hopeless homer than just call me HH. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleTimmy31. Show LittleTimmy31's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    Well, when you have a savy owner like Kraft who is truly passionate about the sport and his team, only good things happen. I just hope Kraft's son, Jonathan, is taking good notes on what to do and what not to do to make and keep a franchise successful.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    I don't like the idea of the taxpayers funding sports stadiums unless they get a sufficient and direct return on their investment in the form of revenues from leases or a share in the gate receipts or the profits earned by the teams playing in the stadium.  I don't buy the argument that the additional economic activity associated with the stadium is enough to reimburse the taxpayers for their investment.  Sure, sports stadiums do create economic activity, but is it really better economic activity than what would be generated in the absence of the stadium or that could be generated by a similar investment in something else?  If the taxpayers think supporting private business is a good thing to do, then why not give money to Toyota or Ford or Apple to locate a factory in their community rather than giving the Dolphins that money?  Which investment would have a higher return in good-paying jobs, associated economic activity, and related tax revenue?  I don't know for sure, but I doubt it's the sports stadium. 

    Ask the Florida taxpayers how they like their "investment" in the Marlins . . . 

    I'm generally a liberal, but on this issue, I completely agree with the conservative Republican speaker of the Florida house. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    Lets look at the facts of playing football in the south east.  No one wants to go to a game on Sunday, they go Saturday.  Any team down there has issues filling the stands for a day game   Look at jax or the marlins. Unless they play at night or try to compete with college there may not be a team that's turquoise and orange with a goofy looking fish on the helmet. 

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    Would have been silly to move the Pats from a large media market like the Boston-Providence one to a smaller one like St. Louis.  Kraft was too smart for that.  He did, however, try for public funding, but the people of Massachusetts were also too smart . . . In the end, it worked out best for everyone, I think. 

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    Most of the problem teams have a TERRIBLE product and have had for years. Miami in the Marino years and before had a good product that sold and the stands were full. It is harder with Baseball because there is so much fluctuation in team fortunes - even the Yankees who spend like crazy put some real clunker teams out there.

    As for Kraft - he is an 'throw back' owner - he owns a team because he made a ton of money in another business and he is a huge fan. But he does not think he is the smartest guy in the room - business maybe, but football, no. So he hires good football folks and lets them do the job and gets out of their way. He gets to schmooze with the players, and does a good job in integrating them in the community, but doesn't try to coach them.

    And yes - he saw a football stadium complex as a good business investment outside of the team ownership. I am sure he is making his money back on that investment.

    As to the tax issue and communities paying for stadiums - it is not dissimilar to a number of other deals cities and states make to bring in other business - tax breaks, land, whatever. Everybody sees the stadium deals because it is an expense, but the reductions in revenues given out for businesses are never even publicised and have just as much of an effect on the bottom line. 

    And yes - a major sports franchise has a huge trickle down effect - not sure of what the total payroll number is for a NFL team, but you can start with $125M in salaries for players. FL does not have an income tax but they do have sales taxes, property taxes, etc. and a fair amount of that payroll is being spent locally. And that leaves out whatever revenue is generated by the fans. And the teams local operations budget - vendors, advertising, sub-contractors, etc. is likely to be another huge influx of money indirectly into the economy.

    I think the biggest problem with stadium deals is with not locking in the team for the life of the stadium. Nothing worse than having a big stadium and no team.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    lets point to the facts that Kraft wanted and tried for taxpayer support..

    while it is assumed he was never serious, he publically looked at other cities..

    the final outcome on the stadium turned into a very profitable decision, and if it wasnt, he too would be publically looking for taxpayer support or threatening to leave...

    lastly, the Phins will never leave Fla, the NFL will never allow it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    lets point to the facts that Kraft wanted and tried for taxpayer support..

    while it is assumed he was never serious, he publically looked at other cities..

    the final outcome on the stadium turned into a very profitable decision, and if it wasnt, he too would be publically looking for taxpayer support or threatening to leave...

    lastly, the Phins will never leave Fla, the NFL will never allow it.



    He actually did what most owners would do.  Try to make a deal with the mayor/governor so that the city would make money off of the stadium, and the owner would get funding to build the new stadium.  Two-way street, both sides are satisfied.  Yes, any smart businessman would do that.  But when push came to shove, the deals fell through for numerous reasons and he decided to sack up and use his own funding.  That's the logic I'm using with Ross and Dee.  Instead of b*tching about not having funding, sack up, be a true owner to your fans, and invest some of your $5 Billion.  

    Also, rkarp, I hope you're not trying to insinuate Kraft was ready to "leave" to other cities.  Those "other cities" were still located in the New England region.  Boston, Providence and Hartford.  

    He has been a huge reason why there still is football in the New England region.  Thank you, Mr. Kraft.

     

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    lets point to the facts that Kraft wanted and tried for taxpayer support..

    while it is assumed he was never serious, he publically looked at other cities..

    the final outcome on the stadium turned into a very profitable decision, and if it wasnt, he too would be publically looking for taxpayer support or threatening to leave...

    lastly, the Phins will never leave Fla, the NFL will never allow it.

     



    He actually did what most owners would do.  Try to make a deal with the mayor/governor so that the city would make money off of the stadium, and the owner would get funding to build the new stadium.  Two-way street, both sides are satisfied.  Yes, any smart businessman would do that.  But when push came to shove, the deals fell through for numerous reasons and he decided to sack up and use his own funding.  That's the logic I'm using with Ross and Dee.  Instead of b*tching about not having funding, sack up, be a true owner to your fans, and invest some of your $5 Billion.  

     

    Also, rkarp, I hope you're not trying to insinuate Kraft was ready to "leave" to other cities.  Those "other cities" were still located in the New England region.  Boston, Providence and Hartford.  

    He has been a huge reason why there still is football in the New England region.  Thank you, Mr. Kraft.

     



    what is your point? How does the Pats situation differ from the Phins situation?

    I stand by my comment, Phins will never leave Fla. Ross will never relocate, and if he ever sells (he wont) the NFL will never approve a new owner without a stadium deal in place to keep them in Fla

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    in terms of Kraft - yes the best of the best

    there is talk here of salary dumping because of economic down turn

    i agree they have to be feeling it some ways and the salary cap isn't going up

    but

    doesn't esch team have to spend the total salary cap number at some time?

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    lets point to the facts that Kraft wanted and tried for taxpayer support..

    while it is assumed he was never serious, he publically looked at other cities..

    the final outcome on the stadium turned into a very profitable decision, and if it wasnt, he too would be publically looking for taxpayer support or threatening to leave...

    lastly, the Phins will never leave Fla, the NFL will never allow it.

     



    He actually did what most owners would do.  Try to make a deal with the mayor/governor so that the city would make money off of the stadium, and the owner would get funding to build the new stadium.  Two-way street, both sides are satisfied.  Yes, any smart businessman would do that.  But when push came to shove, the deals fell through for numerous reasons and he decided to sack up and use his own funding.  That's the logic I'm using with Ross and Dee.  Instead of b*tching about not having funding, sack up, be a true owner to your fans, and invest some of your $5 Billion.  

     

    Also, rkarp, I hope you're not trying to insinuate Kraft was ready to "leave" to other cities.  Those "other cities" were still located in the New England region.  Boston, Providence and Hartford.  

    He has been a huge reason why there still is football in the New England region.  Thank you, Mr. Kraft.

     

     



    what is your point? How does the Pats situation differ from the Phins situation?

     

    I stand by my comment, Phins will never leave Fla. Ross will never relocate, and if he ever sells (he wont) the NFL will never approve a new owner without a stadium deal in place to keep them in Fla

     



    My point is that if the state doesn't help you with funding, you stop being stingy, sack up and invest your own money into renovations or build a new stadium.  You didn't see Kraft whining and claiming he's going to move the franchise OUTSIDE of NE.  He was a fan before he was owner and knows how dear the Patriots are to this region; he wouldn't get up and move the franchise because the state wouldn't help fund a billonaire's business.  What don't you get?

     

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Another reason to be grateful for the Krafts

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    lets point to the facts that Kraft wanted and tried for taxpayer support..

    while it is assumed he was never serious, he publically looked at other cities..

    the final outcome on the stadium turned into a very profitable decision, and if it wasnt, he too would be publically looking for taxpayer support or threatening to leave...

    lastly, the Phins will never leave Fla, the NFL will never allow it.

     



    He actually did what most owners would do.  Try to make a deal with the mayor/governor so that the city would make money off of the stadium, and the owner would get funding to build the new stadium.  Two-way street, both sides are satisfied.  Yes, any smart businessman would do that.  But when push came to shove, the deals fell through for numerous reasons and he decided to sack up and use his own funding.  That's the logic I'm using with Ross and Dee.  Instead of b*tching about not having funding, sack up, be a true owner to your fans, and invest some of your $5 Billion.  

     

    Also, rkarp, I hope you're not trying to insinuate Kraft was ready to "leave" to other cities.  Those "other cities" were still located in the New England region.  Boston, Providence and Hartford.  

    He has been a huge reason why there still is football in the New England region.  Thank you, Mr. Kraft.

     

     



    what is your point? How does the Pats situation differ from the Phins situation?

     

    I stand by my comment, Phins will never leave Fla. Ross will never relocate, and if he ever sells (he wont) the NFL will never approve a new owner without a stadium deal in place to keep them in Fla

     

     



    My point is that if the state doesn't help you with funding, you stop being stingy, sack up and invest your own money into renovations or build a new stadium.  You didn't see Kraft whining and claiming he's going to move the franchise OUTSIDE of NE.  He was a fan before he was owner and knows how dear the Patriots are to this region; he wouldn't get up and move the franchise because the state wouldn't help fund a billonaire's business.  What don't you get?

     

     




    did you read the article? Ross was paying for 70% of the costs out of pocket...the owners are pitching for STATE funds. Kraft was posturing (doubt he would have done it) to move to another state (RI or Conn)...so correct, he would have stayed in NE...but would have left the State.

    My recollection and understanding was that Providence, RI did offer a better deal, but Mass stepped up with non stadium improvements to the infrastructure to make it sweeter for Kraft to stay.

    I actually think that the Stadium has minimal effect on our economy...Foxboro is the Stadium...but its a ghost town otherwise. Contrast it with Fenway or the TD Garden, or for that matter Miami's location, and those stadiums have a big effect on the economy.

     

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share