Another stupid draft trade!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]They get the Saints 2nd Rounder this year as well- not a bad trade.  So 33, 56, 60 overall or 1, 24, 28 for Round 2.
    Posted by Angry[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but "numbers" DON'T run for 1000 yards. Late in games, on 3rd and 4 yds, BJGE doesn't scare anyone, so the defense keys on Brady. Want to re-wind the end of the JESTS! playoff disaster when they HAD to throw the ball? Was that a good thing?

    I agree with the prior poster: what's the sense of trading for future picks if all you;re going to do is trade them for... FUTURE PICKS!  All the "brillianjt" drafting since the last SB title has gotten players who.... have made early playoff exits, save for 2007.

    This was the time to put it all together in the draft, and we get another "same old, same old".

    I'm disappointed.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]I cant agree more with grogan77... I was thinking the same thing (just as I have in years past)!!! We always trade for picks for "next year" that we never use!!! Just for one year, I would like to see BB just take players in the draft spot that come up (not trade any) and see how they pan out. I would have loved for us to take a chance on Ingram. Time will tell. But, in the end, I do support BB and hope that all will work out as it should. Just hard to watch sometimes...
    Posted by ejusox21[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry but do people think or try to use logic before posting?  If they "never use" the picks, how do you explain the fact that they have made 8 picks in rounds 1-2 in the last 2 years?  And if they make the three picks tomorrow, it will be 12 picks in rounds 1-2 in 3 years.  So I ask, where did all these extra picks magically come from????  They came from the trades.  And they will continue to come that way every year.  BB is turning one high pick into 2-3 slightly lower picks every year.  If he didn't use these methods, you could basically kiss Gronkowski, Spikes, etc. goodbye.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mac24. Show mac24's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    this thread=waste of time

    Bill knows exactly how to keep this team in contention every year yet it seems like no other team ever catches on to the way the Patriots do buisness. I really like the pick of Solder the more I read about the kid.

    Good trade. 3 second round picks. 2 firsts next year AGAIN. Flexability to do whatever. Com'on now... 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    hEY GUYS GUESS WHAT:

    Patriots coach Bill Belichick plans to use No. 17 overall pick Nate Solder at left tackle.

    Solder doesn't play with enough power to kick to the strong side, so Sebastian Vollmer will stay there. The Pats may still look to re-sign free agent Matt Light, but the writing on the wall says Solder will likely be a Week 1 starter. New England now has arguably the most athletic offensive tackle duo in football. Vollmer and Solder are both freaks of nature
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    Another stupid, pointless thread by narrow minded, arm chair GM's that would have us at the bottom of the NFL every year by listening to Kiper instead of Belichick!

    Solder is the best OT in the draft... period.  

    A 2nd round pick added without losing anything except having to pick a year later... genius.  It's how an NFL team ends up with 2 #1's, 2 #2's and 3 #3 picks in a draft, not listening to the short sighted.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ender587. Show Ender587's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    Why do you keep posting this exacte same thing over and over again?  I dont think bill is using Solder at LT at all.. I mean.. i dont know for sure, but I wouldnt put a rookie at LT protecting the most important position on the field.  Vollmer LT Solder will battle for a spot on the right side IMo.

    You are right about the infinite second round picks though.. but I think what the consensus on the forum is.. we dont want to be in contestion every year and bubble out of the SB.  We have a great team, and it was 1-2 game changers away from being as close to a sure thing as you can be.  We passed for the ability to be in the playoffs every year.

    Would you rather win 2 SB's in ten years or be in the palyoffs 10 out of 10 times?  Im taking the super bowls.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SentientMeat. Show SentientMeat's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    BECAUSE of planning ahead, this year's first round pick was much higher than the normal place the Patriots would have picked from (#28)  They had Oakland's pick and thanks to PLANNING AHEAD had enough desirable picks to trade up higher and take from the quickly dwindling supply of Rookie starters on the OL and DL.  Football is won and lost in the trenches.  After the rest of the top OL and DL (where we have a need) players were picked away before the 28th pick, Belichick wisely got value for the pick because we pick FIRST Friday - The Patriots staff has done a good job of anticipating other teams picks while Belichick has been HC.  Most everyone in the trenches listed here:  http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/gallery/2011/patriots_draft_prospects_2011?pg=7

    ...was GONE by the 28th pick - get value, look ahead.  When BB stops planning ahead for future drafts that means he is retiring and letting the next guy start from scratch instead of inheriting the legacy

    I have doubts about the speed of Ingram - if the scouts say he lacks top end speed then what would we gain over what we have now?

    No other team in the NFL has the power and the number of picks in the first rounds that the Patriots have

    Seymour, McGinest, Law, Warren Mankins and Wilfork might have been picked in the 1st round, but so were Maroney and Bledsoe.

    And what about Curtis Martin, Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi?  Picked in the 3rd round or lower.  What about the Free Agent walk-ons who were never picked but make a team?  There is value in the draft if you do your homework. 

    Speaking of which:  I think Cam Newton, the number one pick this year is too green.  I hate a scrambling QB in the NFL how's THAT workin' for ya Michael Vick? Kordell Stewart?  Tony Eason?


    Contrast this with former NY Jets HC, former (omigod, no) NE Patriot HC and current (really, no other choices but him again?) Seattle Seahawk HC Pete Carroll and his "Hey, it's my turn to pick!"  "Let's see, if I pick that guy the Ravens won't like me...  Let's see, that guys picked to go in the 2nd round, I could trade down and get more picks and still get him, NO, I like his name! CARPENTER!  He will accept my "challenge" to play well in the NFL and help me RE-BUILD (get it?) this team..."

    Want THAT?  Go be a fan of Seattle, I promise you will need their famous coffee to get psyched for their games.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from priest1972. Show priest1972's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    Bill's tactics may make for a boring draft night for some, but the 1st draft where he doesn't pickup future picks will be a huge disappointment for me. 

    From there on out, the Pats will be picking in the 26 to 30 range and again at 56-60. That's it.

    No more picking two times in the top 33. No more picking 5 times in the top 60.

    The gravy train will just come to a screeching halt.

    It's taken years to manipulate the draft to the point where BB always:

    1) Picks ahead of where the Pats' record would normally allow.

    2) Has plenty of picks to move up and get his guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

    3) has extra picks to trade for the Moss and WWs that come available.

    The first season Bill decides to move up in the draft and make all his picks, the party's over.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]that 1st next year will probably be one of the last picks in the draft. basically a 2nd. saints are stacked thanks to us. 
    Posted by artielang[/QUOTE]

    yep!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]what planet do you live on that trade sucks because we will get such a low first from them next year we could have traded with cinn for there first next year or another team that need a QB
    Posted by vegasredsox[/QUOTE]

    they used the time. it may very well be no better offers came in. and yeah, if we traded down at all, and im not a fan of that, i would have preferred with a bottom 5 team.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade! : You mean the pick that will be traded again next season?  What good are picks that you don't use!  The Pats have holes and need players.  Brady isn't getting younger!
    Posted by Grogan77[/QUOTE]

    right again. i made a very thorough version of this critique 3 months ago on the marathon mock thread. now ive started an after the draft thread. "respectful, thoughtful everything patriot thread"
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]I'm with ya Grog--every year i watch right up to the pick and then...."the Patriots have traded..." I'm probably too impatient but it gets pretty frustrating when you have heard of so many names that are still available and the implication is "we're too smart" to take one of them...but I'll wait and have faith
    Posted by wmasschilly[/QUOTE]

    ditto, ditto, ditto
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]Another stupid thread about BB being stupid....  I wish you guys ran the Patriots.
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    sports is a place to get your emotions out. its about "boos" and "yeahs".
    so lets let people vent. and hold back from criticizing one another.

    likely we will learn the grand plan.

    or maybe the organization will make a mistake here or there. it happens.

    eother way. share your feelings.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]Yup...  Yet another person who wants NE to be cr#p for 4-5 MAJOR rebuilding years, then getting mayyybe 1 or 2 seasons in which they "might" win it.  Instead of being relevant and being able to maybe win it each & every single season...ALWAYS. 
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    last i looked you dont need to go to extremes.
    see pittsburgh, etc
    no reason to go bankrupt
    but ok to use some top picks you garner on gamechangers.
    with brady and a smart coach (bb) there is no reason we cant be in contention for the super bowl yearly at least till brady retires.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!



    vaIn Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade! : A this point it sounds good to me,Pats need impact players not cannon fodder.I want the pats to go 5-11 and actually draft  real players.The pats dont choke they just dont have impact players on defence save 2 or 3 including cb which shouldnt be a impact position.Think pitts,ravens at least 5 players on defense who can turn a game around. Pats Wilfork? Game plan? UFOs? Wife swapping? Digging holes in turf? 9-11? Taping thats the pats defense.If you cant see the forrest for the trees maybe Bill should think adout Indy, 3 impact lid points. except for that ufo stuffplayers makes a superbowl defense thats all you need and 8 carboard boxes.think about it.
    Posted by deadZeppelin[/QUOTE]


    valid points.
    except for that ufo stuff  :)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    Pyegian,

    Nice posts, I'm with you 100%.

    Would like to add that I feel we are too spoiled these days. What happened to the time when a 2nd round pick was huge? A 3rd round pick was looked at to be a solid starter for us?

    This was back in the old days when we were terrible as most teams are now.

    Now we feel a 2nd round pick is a a borderline no talent bum and might as well not even make the third round pick, those guys never play in the NFL less there a punter or long snapper?

    A second round pick is something to be excited about guys and if we have a team comprised of solid 2nd round players we will be the best in the NFL.

    The fact we have been able to add so many second round choices has been amazing and we are the envy of the other GM's in the league, let's enjoy it.

    I am not part of the cash it all in crowd for one big name. I say let's keep this train rolling.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade! : Your right ignore the hillbillies.
    Posted by deadZeppelin[/QUOTE]



    save the namecalling (if thats what that was). its ok and acceptable to disagree.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]Pyegian, Nice posts, I'm with you 100%. Would like to add that I feel we are too spoiled these days. What happened to the time when a 2nd round pick was huge? A 3rd round pick was looked at to be a solid starter for us? This was back in the old days when we were terrible as most teams are now. Now we feel a 2nd round pick is a a borderline no talent bum and might as well not even make the third round pick, those guys never play in the NFL less there a punter or long snapper? A second round pick is something to be excited about guys and if we have a team comprised of solid 2nd round players we will be the best in the NFL. The fact we have been able to add so many second round choices has been amazing and we are the envy of the other GM's in the league, let's enjoy it. I am not part of the cash it all in crowd for one big name. I say let's keep this train rolling.
    Posted by Asher77[/QUOTE]


    hey asher,
    as long as it rides to the super bowl for at least 2 more years while we have brady. otherwise whats the point of having one of the best qb's in the league.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]Grogan, lets do some math:  They're not just trading one pick this year for one pick next year.  Like they have in the past, they are also getting a very valuable second round pick with it.  So theoretically, they could make this same trade every single season, and would basically be picking up a free second round pick every year.  Basically, they are turning one first round pick into (theoretically) infinite second round picks, one each year.  It's genius, actually.
    Posted by pyegian[/QUOTE]


    until you consider if you dont win you are wasting potential super bowl year opportunies we could be winning with brady and a couple more studs. we still might do it. will have to see the masters plan once it's all laid out. if we dont in my opinion as well it will have been a squandering of the opportunity to win 2-3 more sb's.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]I cant agree more with grogan77... I was thinking the same thing (just as I have in years past)!!! We always trade for picks for "next year" that we never use!!! Just for one year, I would like to see BB just take players in the draft spot that come up (not trade any) and see how they pan out. I would have loved for us to take a chance on Ingram. Time will tell. But, in the end, I do support BB and hope that all will work out as it should. Just hard to watch sometimes...
    Posted by ejusox21[/QUOTE]

    exactly! eric
    down to the last comment!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]this thread=waste of time Bill knows exactly how to keep this team in contention every year yet it seems like no other team ever catches on to the way the Patriots do buisness. I really like the pick of Solder the more I read about the kid. Good trade. 3 second round picks. 2 firsts next year AGAIN. Flexability to do whatever. Com'on now... 
    Posted by mac24[/QUOTE]

    "this thread=waste of time"

    its called sports talk.
    it's entertainment.
    for some, its quality of life. it makes life more enjoyable to share opnions, criticisms, feelings about our team.
    its why we all are here.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]Why do you keep posting this exacte same thing over and over again?  I dont think bill is using Solder at LT at all.. I mean.. i dont know for sure, but I wouldnt put a rookie at LT protecting the most important position on the field.  Vollmer LT Solder will battle for a spot on the right side IMo. You are right about the infinite second round picks though.. but I think what the consensus on the forum is.. we dont want to be in contestion every year and bubble out of the SB.  We have a great team, and it was 1-2 game changers away from being as close to a sure thing as you can be.  We passed for the ability to be in the playoffs every year. Would you rather win 2 SB's in ten years or be in the palyoffs 10 out of 10 times?  Im taking the super bowls.
    Posted by Ender587[/QUOTE]


    "Would you rather win 2 SB's in ten years or be in the palyoffs 10 out of 10 times?  Im taking the super bowls. "

    correction, with the top tier talent (esp qb brady we have), we should be in contention 3 out of 4 years and win 2 of 4.

    see as good or, i think better, than the steelers record of sb's
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    We don't know if it will or it won't ride us to the Superbowl.
    My opinion is it gives us a more grounded shot at it over the next 5 years.

    My opinion is it also gives us a much better shot to win it without Brady at QB.

    With the sell it all now approach I am affraid even if we do win it we will be setting ourselves up to go back to being a losing franchise down the road.

    We are fans of all ages and I think some of the younger fans might not remember what it was like to be the Detroit Lions of the NFL. It was bad.

    Being a team who makes the the playoffs every year but never wins it can hurt but let's keep it in context. We are not that team yet as we made the Superbowl 4 times in the 2000's. We can go a couple more years if we must before we are demoralized as a fan base.

    We are a young team now that will get better and ANY team in the NFL that adds multiple picks in the first 2 rounds year after year WILL get better going forward.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    In Response to Re: Another stupid draft trade!:
    [QUOTE]BECAUSE of planning ahead, this year's first round pick was much higher than the normal place the Patriots would have picked from (#28)  They had Oakland's pick and thanks to PLANNING AHEAD had enough desirable picks to trade up higher and take from the quickly dwindling supply of Rookie starters on the OL and DL.  Football is won and lost in the trenches.  After the rest of the top OL and DL (where we have a need) players were picked away before the 28th pick, Belichick wisely got value for the pick because we pick FIRST Friday - The Patriots staff has done a good job of anticipating other teams picks while Belichick has been HC.  Most everyone in the trenches listed here:  http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/gallery/2011/patriots_draft_prospects_2011?pg=7 ...was GONE by the 28th pick - get value, look ahead.  When BB stops planning ahead for future drafts that means he is retiring and letting the next guy start from scratch instead of inheriting the legacy I have doubts about the speed of Ingram - if the scouts say he lacks top end speed then what would we gain over what we have now? No other team in the NFL has the power and the number of picks in the first rounds that the Patriots have Seymour, McGinest, Law, Warren Mankins and Wilfork might have been picked in the 1st round, but so were Maroney and Bledsoe. And what about Curtis Martin, Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi?  Picked in the 3rd round or lower.  What about the Free Agent walk-ons who were never picked but make a team?  There is value in the draft if you do your homework.  Speaking of which:  I think Cam Newton, the number one pick this year is too green.  I hate a scrambling QB in the NFL how's THAT workin' for ya Michael Vick? Kordell Stewart?  Tony Eason? Contrast this with former NY Jets HC, former (omigod, no) NE Patriot HC and current (really, no other choices but him again?) Seattle Seahawk HC Pete Carroll and his "Hey, it's my turn to pick!"  "Let's see, if I pick that guy the Ravens won't like me...  Let's see, that guys picked to go in the 2nd round, I could trade down and get more picks and still get him, NO, I like his name! CARPENTER!  He will accept my "challenge" to play well in the NFL and help me RE-BUILD (get it?) this team..." Want THAT?  Go be a fan of Seattle, I promise you will need their famous coffee to get psyched for their games.
    Posted by SentientMeat[/QUOTE]


    BECAUSE of planning ahead, this year's first round pick was much higher than the normal place the Patriots would have picked from (#28)  They had Oakland's pick and thanks to PLANNING AHEAD had enough desirable picks to trade up higher and take from the quickly dwindling supply of Rookie starters on the OL and DL.

    my criticism is not with the use of successful strategy, ie the one you mention/we use; its taking advantage of that strategy instead of using it to a fault (ie pisk up a stud when you are on the edge of perennial sb wins with a team that is a few pro bowlers away).

     Football is won and lost in the trenches.  After the rest of the top OL and DL (where we have a need) players were picked away before the 28th pick, Belichick wisely got value for the pick because we pick FIRST Friday - The Patriots staff has done a good job of anticipating other teams picks while Belichick has been HC.  Most everyone in the trenches listed here:  http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/gallery/2011/patriots_draft_prospects_2011?pg=7

    ...was GONE by the 28th pick - get value, look ahead.  When BB stops planning ahead for future drafts that means he is retiring and letting the next guy start from scratch instead of inheriting the legacy

    I have doubts about the speed of Ingram - if the scouts say he lacks top end speed then what would we gain over what we have now?

    No other team in the NFL has the power and the number of picks in the first rounds that the Patriots have

    Seymour, McGinest, Law, Warren Mankins and Wilfork might have been picked in the 1st round, but so were Maroney and Bledsoe.

    that is not an indictment of where they were picked but of discretion

    And what about Curtis Martin, Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi?  Picked in the 3rd round or lower.  What about the Free Agent walk-ons who were never picked but make a team?  There is value in the draft if you do your homework. 

    Speaking of which:  I think Cam Newton, the number one pick this year is too green.  I hate a scrambling QB in the NFL how's THAT workin' for ya Michael Vick? Kordell Stewart?  Tony Eason?


    Contrast this with former NY Jets HC, former (omigod, no) NE Patriot HC and current (really, no other choices but him again?) Seattle Seahawk HC Pete Carroll and his "Hey, it's my turn to pick!"  "Let's see, if I pick that guy the Ravens won't like me...  Let's see, that guys picked to go in the 2nd round, I could trade down and get more picks and still get him, NO, I like his name! CARPENTER!  He will accept my "challenge" to play well in the NFL and help me RE-BUILD (get it?) this team..."

    Want THAT?  Go be a fan of Seattle, I promise you will need their famous coffee to get psyched for their games.


    no we want to be patriot fans thats why we are. and we know we have the ability to compete for super bowls yearly right now (starting last year) if we make a couple right picks. oh and toss mr obrian.

    ps come check out the ongoing everything patriot thread.
    "respectful, thoughtful everything patriot thread" and share your thoughts there. love to have them.

    thanks sentien
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourjays30. Show fourjays30's posts

    Re: Another stupid draft trade!

    Another reason the Pat's probably did what they did was they are making the assumption that there will be no rookie salary cap this year. The amount of money needed to sign a first rounder vs a second or third rounder is huge. It would not have suprised me if the cap was in place that they would have gone for two first rounders. As always they never do what you expect but in the end it usually works out. I can remember pretty well last year eveyone on this board was moaning about using the 1st round pick on Devin McCourtney how did that work out!
     
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