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Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to NYC's comment:

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:

     

    Another thought on this; maybe it's not just the Colt's first round pick that the Brown's have their eye on.

    The value of winning no games instead of, say, 4 games could set this franchise up for 10 more years.

    As far as giving up a number 3 pick overall; Sunk costs are never relevant.

    this could be "suck for Bridgewater"

     




     

    Bostate

    It is obvious you understand more than football with your statement "Sunk costs are never relevant". The mistakes many of us make in life is living too much in the past. 



    Yo NYC,  it's obvious the present Brown's management understands the same concept.  They realize that the fact that he was an overall number three can not factor into their future plans.  I'm afraid that their part of the deal may be a conscious decision to tank the season to improve their own 1st round pick.  The Brown's may earn the number one overall pick and get their franchise QB.  Disturbing trend.  If this was baseball, the deal might be voided by the commissioner.

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?


    Kind of funny listening to Rusty talk about running backs when he didn't realize Curtis Martin caught footballs and is ready to place BJGE into the hall of fame everytime he stumbles over his feet for two yards. Just last year he said YPC is a meaningless statistic..he said that...no lie. And by the way, there are roughly 10000 guys who have played running back in the NFL....Curtis Marin has caught more passes than 9987 of them, not bad for a guy that can't catch.  

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to UD6's comment:

     played for a team where opposing defenses could stack the box without concern for exposing themselves to the passing game.  You've always been a guy who appreciated context.  There's some for you. 



    You might want to reassess that context.

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to UD6's comment:

    Perfectly relaxed.  Happy to have amused you.  Btw, I wouldn't exactly call your response a ringing endorsement.  In fact, if one were to judge it, I think they'd say you were leaning to the side of a bad trade vs a good one for the colts.  No one said his stock was as hifh as it was on draft day.  No one thinks the pick the colts gave up will be the third pick in the draft, and the colts don't have the financial or cap responsibility of that pick.  As smart as you are, you' recognized this, I am sure.  So , given the obvious we have to take your response as a negative toward the colts.  i gave my 2 cents.  Happy Friday.



    I don't think it is obviously a steal.  It could be a good trade, but I think too many people are assuming that Richardson's stock is the same as it was on draft day and that the change of scenery will automatically boost his pedestrian ypc.  I question that assumption.  For someone who talks about context a lot you seem to have missed the post I was responding to.

     

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to the-redsox-rule's comment:

    The only back worth being a first round pick would be Adrian Peterson. Backs have a short shelf life, especially guys who played at Alabama for Saban. Cleveland shouldn't have used the 3rd pick for him in the first place. I guess they've done what they had to do to put themselves in position to draft a franchise QB. They've packed it in for the season after week two.



    What I'm saying is that backs usually don't have the longer term impact than that of guys in other positions.. The rebuilding Browns used the 3rd pick in the draft on him, too high imo. I think he's a good fit for the Colts though, their first rounder isn't going to be the 3rd overall pick, and they already have a very good QB.

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    Hmmmm...Richardson could not stay on the field nor would I consider him worthy of a first. Colts got suckered and Cleveland is setting themselves up for a very deep QB draft next spring.



         The Colts were desperate. They had no running threat to speak of, and were becoming very one-dimensional on offense. Crazed owner Jim Irsay just raved at his team and coaches because QB Andrew Luck was getting hit too much. Richardson is pretty good at pass blocking, and is a good pass receiver, coming out of the backfield. But, the concern about him when he was drafted was that he was over-used at Alabama, and had some injury issues. In the pros thus far, he's had problems staying on the field. 

         For these reasons, it appears that Cleveland did very well to get a #1 draft pick for him...and that the Colts vastly overpaid. But, time will tell.

           

     

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    Hmmmm...Richardson could not stay on the field nor would I consider him worthy of a first. Colts got suckered and Cleveland is setting themselves up for a very deep QB draft next spring.

     



         The Colts were desperate. They had no running threat to speak of, and were becoming very one-dimensional on offense. Crazed owner Jim Irsay just raved at his team and coaches because QB Andrew Luck was getting hit too much. Richardson is pretty good at pass blocking, and is a good pass receiver, coming out of the backfield. But, the concern about him when he was drafted was that he was over-used at Alabama, and had some injury issues. In the pros thus far, he's had problems staying on the field. 

     

         For these reasons, it appears that Cleveland did very well to get a #1 draft pick for him...and that the Colts vastly overpaid. But, time will tell.

           

     



    Wow don't mention him getting hurt or injury issues. Someone gets upset. 

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

         Here's how I think that most Colts' fans appear to view the deal: http://www.stampedeblue.com/2013/9/18/4746592/analyzing-the-colts-blockbuster-trade-for-trent-richardson 

         But then, there is this from Hall of Famer Jimmy Brown on Richardson, after seeing him perform in Cleveland during his rookie year: “I think the kid is a good working back, and if you’ve got everything else around him, he can play his role,” Brown told ESPN last year. “But when it comes to outstanding, I don’t see anything outstanding about him. It’s not said in a cruel manner. He’s very efficient, and that’s what you want.” http://www.indystar.com/article/20130919/SPORTS15/309190067/Bob-Kravitz-Trade-Trent-Richardson-re-energizes-Colts

         Yet, Indy Star columnist Bob Kravitz see it differently:

         "This is not a one-year fix,” Kravitz said. “This is a guy (Richardson) who’s still on his rookie contract and he’s going to be here a long time to come.”

         Kravitz also expects Richardson’s production to increase now that he won’t face an eight-man front on every play.

         “I think this guy has a chance to become a dynamic running back,” Kravitz said: http://feinstein.radio.cbssports.com/2013/09/19/bob-kravitz-we-were-all-floored-by-richardson-trade/

         Folks, the Colts still paying for busting out on RB Donald Brown, their #1 draft choice, and 27th selected player overall, in the 2009 draft. When Indy drafted him, Colts' fans were thrilled: http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/4/27/855629/2009-indianapolis-colts-draft. But, how did that actually work out?: http://coltscast.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/donald-brown-is-not-a-good-football-player/  

         The Colts now are compounding the Brown mistake by spending yet another #1 draft choice on a RB...when a top flight body guard for Andrew Luck should be their top priority. History has repeatedly shown that good RBs can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one. 

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    This makes the Patriots' December 9 contest with Cleveland just a bit easier.  After that, Cleveland probably doesn't play New England for another three years, so I guess that we all can wish them luck with that first round pick.  Cleveland is already #28 on my list but I guess they can drop to #31 if they try hard enough, Washington being the #31 team.  Nobody on earth can beat mighty Jacksonville for that #1 draft pick. 

    The trade probably makes Houston's two games with Indianapolis a bit harder.  I have Indy with a 6.4 (a bit over 6-10) power rating and Houston with a 9.6 power rating.  New England probably won't play Indy until 2015.

    So let's hear it for the Monsters for once. 

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         The Colts now are compounding the Brown mistake by spending yet another #1 draft choice on a RB...when a top flight body guard for Andrew Luck should be their top priority. History has repeatedly shown that good RBs can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one. 

     

     

    How are they compounding the Brown "mistake"? 

    RESPONSE: Are you finally admitting that Donald Brown is a BUST? Read my previous post above! 

    Did I miss Minnesota offering Matt Kalil for the colts 1st round pick next year?

    RESPONSE: I've been out of town. Did I miss that? Do you have a cite? When did the Vikings offer to trade their 2nd year, pro-bowl LT Kalil, to the Colts for Indy's #1 draft choice? Or...are you merely doing what you always do...say anything to try to buttress your silly arguments?

    Richardson is a significantly better body guard for Luck than Brown is in a number of ways.  He's a better pass blocker.  He's a better pass catcher, and he's a bigger running threat which causes teams to change the way they rush Luck, now. 

    RESPONSE: The above is one of the silliest statements that you have ever made here...and that's saying something. Are you seriously going to argue that a good-decent RB is as good a pass protector for a QB as a stud LT? LOL!!!

    I have no idea if Richardson will live up to the pick the colts have given, but he was not ineffective last year on a horrible team.

    RESPONSE: He was not all that effective, either. Hall of Fame RB Jim Brown has referred to him as "ordinary". Based on what I've seen of Richardson in Cleveland, I tend to agree. Like other highly decorated Alabama RBs, Mark Ingram and Eddie Lacey, Richardson appears to be a product of the Nick Saban system, who flourished running behind the best OL in college football. 

    That gives him value as a known quantity unlike a draft pick - Laurence Maroney anyone?

    RESPONSE: LOL!!! What does Maroney have to do with this conversation? You've been around here long enough to know that I have bashed BB for his poor drafts, including the selection of Maroney.

    The pick is next year's pick which means the colts have given up nothing this year.

    RESPONSE: Ridiculous! Who is to say that the Colts are a playoff team this year? They play a tougher schedule than last years' walk in the park, their best offensive weapon is a 35 year old WR, they have a below average OL, and their defense is far from stellar.

    The (1-1) after two home games Colts must still play the Texans twice, the NFC West teams, the Broncos, Kansas City, and San Diego in San Diego. Good luck, son.  

    Richardson's cap hit is not significant given that the colts are only responsible for about 30% of his total contract.  Financially, he's a steal.

    RESPONSE If he produces as you hope he will, than yes, financially, it's an okay move. But, if he's "ordinary", or continues down the injury prone path, he's a waste of cap space, and a waste of a valuable #1 draft choice.

    Finally, 3 of the pats 3 starting offensive linemen were not picked in the first round.  2 were not drafted at all.

    RESPONSE: Pleeeasssee. Their LT was a #1 pick in 2011, their RT was the 58th overall pick in the 2009 draft, and their LG was a #1 pick in 2005. Their starting RG and OC were found in "the scrap heap". But, history has shown that centers and guards, like RBs, can be found in later rounds. Tackles...rarely.

    This is likely not dissimilar throughout the league.  What's that mean?  History has repeatedly shown that good offensive linemen can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one.  That cut and paste function really works. 

    RESPONSE: Man...you are really hoping that Richardson pulls through. Good luck with that, Doggie-dooo. LOL!!!




     

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    How are they compounding the Brown "mistake"? 

    RESPONSE: Are you finally admitting that Donald Brown is a BUST? Read my previous post above! 

    TP - how come you didn't answer my question?  Tell you what, lets do this in a normal kind of a discourse.  If I ask a question, then you answer it.  If you have questions subsequently, then I answer them. 

    RESPONSE: Even you can't be this stupid! Brown was a mistake because the Colts wasted a first round pick on a RB in 2009...and are now doing the same, in wasting a 2014 #1 pick on yet another RB. Capische??

     

    Did I miss Minnesota offering Matt Kalil for the colts 1st round pick next year?

    RESPONSE: I've been out of town. Did I miss that? Do you have a cite? When did the Vikings offer to trade their 2nd year, pro-bowl LT Kalil, to the Colts for Indy's #1 draft choice? Or...are you merely doing what you always do...say anything to try to buttress your silly arguments?

    RESPONSE: Couldn't help but notice how you avoided answering this portion of my response, Dog(ggggg). Up to your old lying and misrepresenting tricks again I see, Pinocchio? Where's the cite showing that Minnesota offered the Colts Matt Kalil for Indy's 2014 #1 pick? I'm waiting, Doggie...doo.  

    Richardson is a significantly better body guard for Luck than Brown is in a number of ways.  He's a better pass blocker.  He's a better pass catcher, and he's a bigger running threat which causes teams to change the way they rush Luck, now. 

    RESPONSE: The above is one of the silliest statements that you have ever made here...and that's saying something. Are you seriously going to argue that a good-decent RB is as good a pass protector for a QB as a stud LT? LOL!!!

    Where did I say that a good RB is a better pass protector than a good LT?  The colts already have a good LT.  Richardson is a better pass protector, runner, and pass catcher - all which help Luck - than any other back they have.  Wake up Texas Pat.   

    RESPONSE: Oh, that's right. You not so cleverly tried to misdirect my comments from a discussion about whether an improved OL or Richardson would be a better pass protector for Luck...and switched it around to a comparison between Donald "BUST" Brown, and Richardson. How juvenile can you get. The Colts' OL is weak...to such a degree that your idiot owner twittered that things had better change, or else...which likely prompted this silly trade.

    I have no idea if Richardson will live up to the pick the colts have given, but he was not ineffective last year on a horrible team.

    RESPONSE: He was not all that effective, either. Hall of Fame RB Jim Brown has referred to him as "ordinary". Based on what I've seen of Richardson in Cleveland, I tend to agree. Like other highly decorated Alabama RBs, Mark Ingram and Eddie Lacey, Richardson appears to be a product of the Nick Saban system, who flourished running behind the best OL in college football. 

    What do you expect when you have a crappy team?  Jim Brown is one voice.  Superbowl winning coaches and Front Office executives have said the Colts got a heckuva player.  Time will tell.  Eddie Lacey is a rookie.  Why not give him an opportunity before labeling him?  Oops- that's your MO.  Never mind. 

    RESPONSE: Lacey dropped like a stone during the 2013 draft because of similar concerns about him, as had Richardson. Both were over-used in a physical run attack at Alabama, and both had some problems staying of the field. And...what does Jim Brown know about RBs...right, Dog(ggggg)?

     

    That gives him value as a known quantity unlike a draft pick - Laurence Maroney anyone?

    RESPONSE: LOL!!! What does Maroney have to do with this conversation? You've been around here long enough to know that I have bashed BB for his poor drafts, including the selection of Maroney.

    Well, if you quit breaking up paragraphs you might understand the context.  The context is that draft picks are unknown quantities and some fail, like Maroney.  Since Richardson has been in the league a year, people have an idea of what he can do, and some think he can be great.  The colts gave up a future pick which is no guarantee that the player taken will perform. 

    RESPONSE: Who are these "people" You, Dog(ggggg)? Richardson is what he is...a decent to good RB...if he can stay on the field. He certainly wasn't worthy of being the 3rd overall pick ion the 2012 draft...and, now that we've seen a sampling of what he can do, his injury prone efforts aren't worthy of using a first round pick on.

    The pick is next year's pick which means the colts have given up nothing this year.

    RESPONSE: Ridiculous! Who is to say that the Colts are a playoff team this year? They play a tougher schedule than last years' walk in the park, their best offensive weapon is a 35 year old WR, they have a below average OL, and their defense is far from stellar.

    Where in my comment did I say they were making the playoffs?  I have no idea how you came up with that thought based on me saying the colts have given up nothing this year.  Come on Tex. You are smarter than that...aren't you?

    RESPONSE: Your initial comment minimizing the price to get Richardson looks even sillier after reading your latest comment, above. A first round pick for a team that doesn't make the play-offs is a very valuable commidity. No qualifications or Doggie-doo here, please...do you agree? A simple yes or no will do.  

    The (1-1) after two home games Colts must still play the Texans twice, the NFC West teams, the Broncos, Kansas City, and San Diego in San Diego. Good luck, son.  

    Thanks.  Yeah they are going to need help.  They've already got Luck.  Divine intervention would be nice.

    RESPONSE: So you admit that it's doubtful that your Dolts will make the play-offs this year. Yes or no? 

    Richardson's cap hit is not significant given that the colts are only responsible for about 30% of his total contract.  Financially, he's a steal.

    RESPONSE If he produces as you hope he will, than yes, financially, it's an okay move. But, if he's "ordinary", or continues down the injury prone path, he's a waste of cap space, and a waste of a valuable #1 draft choice.

    Financially its a great move even if he's just a 1000 yd rusher and 400 yd pass catcher with 11 TD's.  Broken ribs are not pulled hamstrings. 

    RESPONSE: If the Colts made this deal and fail to make the play-offs, how can you deem this trade to have been successful? Your top argument seems to be that the Colts got better, and gave up nothing in return...for the 2013 season. But, what about the 2014 season, and thereafter? What is going to be done to significantly improve their OL and DL...when they lack a #1 draft pick next season?

    Finally, 3 of the pats 3 starting offensive linemen were not picked in the first round.  2 were not drafted at all.

    RESPONSE: Pleeeasssee. Their LT was a #1 pick in 2011, their RT was the 58th overall pick in the 2009 draft, and their LG was a #1 pick in 2005. Their starting RG and OC were found in "the scrap heap". But, history has shown that centers and guards, like RBs, can be found in later rounds. Tackles...rarely.

    Thanks for agreeing with my comment.  By the way the colts have a 1st round left tackle.  So that box of yours has already been checked. 

    RESPONSE: Agreeing with your comment?? You are delusional...LOL!!!

     

    This is likely not dissimilar throughout the league.  What's that mean?  History has repeatedly shown that good offensive linemen can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one.  That cut and paste function really works. 

    RESPONSE: Man...you are really hoping that Richardson pulls through. Good luck with that, Doggie-dooo. LOL!!!

    Why would I hope otherwise TP?  I am a Colts fan.

    RESPONSE: You are not "hoping"...you are taking a position that this trade will turn the Colts' 2013 season around, are you not? Yes, or no.

         Adios, Pinocchio!




     
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