Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    That's funny Russ. I was under the assumption bb and the pats are trying to win a SB every year .

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sw4288. Show sw4288's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to sw4288's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    The first drive of the Tampa game was a thing of beauty. Well executed, using Develin like they used to use Heath Evans, Patrick Pass etc. Matt Chatham tweeted during the game that one of the most important things for the offense is getting 5+ yards on the ground on first down. Ridley was just getting chunks, you put yourself in second and third and managable and you're going to have success. The drive ate up about 7 minutes of clock as well. That's what I'd like to see from this offense this season. The whole run/pass ratio has been beaten to death, Brady's strange post season play, but that opening drive against Tampa was amazing. Keep that going and we'll roll.


    Defensively, Spikes was a monster blitzing. I don't know anything about the Bucs o-line but he was flying. What Brandon Spikes brings on first and second down I think is invaluable. Chandler looked like a beast. That run stuff was awesome. Good to see Logan Ryan get a pick six as well. We'll see what happens when the starters suit up for a little longer on Thursday. This team is exciting and I hope they take the "they didn't believe we could do it" attitude like Rodney had.

     




    I agree with Chatham, but against the good front 7s, which is what TB's is, if we come out with the spread, we never even have a chance to establish the run.

     

    You have to commit to the run vs the better front 7s, because it opens up the playbook. 

    That's been my whole argument here for years. I can tell if we might lose a game just by how we come out early in the game on offesnse. I am not kidding you.

    We play with fire when we use finesse vs a good or great front 7, and we usually lose, with everyone coming running in to blame our D, which is beyond old at this point.

    I can look at our schedule right now and tell you the teams we can throw on with shotgun spreads and it not be a huge factor.

    Bills and Jets? Sure. No problem. Neither team has much of a pass rushing strength and they have sketchy LBs and DBs.

    @ Atlanta? We must run the ball early and often in that game and we might win it.   If we don't, we will likely lose it.

    To me, it's so simple.  You up your odds to win with a larger playbook at the disposal of a Tom Brady.

    Subbing in your RB to pretend to run in the 3rd qtr is too easy to tell what is coming and you cannot establish a run from the shotgun either.

    Ridley/Bolden  (75% use, hammer the rock, only sub these guys on and off if they need a rest, but use them the same)

    Vereen/Blount (25% use or in specific situations like shotgun spreads or wrinkles)*

    Now, that doesn't mean I don't want Vereen in there as a slot WR against an LB.*

    [/QUOTE]


    Great point about the ATL game. That is gonna be a huge road game and I agree, they need to go in there and hit them in the mouth. This team cannot be out physical'd in big games anymore. That has to be a point of emphasis.


    The Seattle game last year is the perfect example. D played sketchy at times, gave up big pass plays, but our offense pissed that one away and Brady threw upwards of 60 times with the lead. Our defense in the third Q was getting to Wilson, I believe Jones had 2 sacks and Vince may have had one as well. They were put in bad situations. A lot of people will look at the D being in base in the final minute of the fourth, but against Lynch, and a running QB you take your chances. I look at the fact that we ran for close to 300 yards against Denver and then turned around to throw it 55 plus against a defense who is close to the best in the league against the pass.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    I like the offenses they're running so far in the preseason.  Brady lining up under center more is a nice sight to see.  The running game is a strength of this offense now and needs to be utilized more.  That's the big difference between having Bill O'Brien and Josh McDaniels as the OCs.  O'Brien was too pass happy because he wasn't creative enough.  McDaniels knew he had a gem of an offense in 2007 but that the play calling in the Super Bowl left a lot to be desired.  I think he's a better OC now than he was back then.  If Brady spreads the ball around more like he did in the Super Bowl winning days, esepcially with his experience, he's gonna have more success especially against the tougher defenses come playoff time.  And please use the running game.  We have a stable of very good running backs with a terrific offensive line.  That opens up the playaction more and Brady is deadly with that.  I think he's more deadly with that than the shotgun spread formations.

     

    As a side note, I think a lot of you are smart football fans and of course there are a few trolls but making arguments for why the defense stunk in a key moment or why Brady has had poor outings in the last 3 AFC title games isn't what I would call trolling.  It's just observation and analysis.  Stats and facts can back up those arguments and I have seen quite a few of you guys use facts to help the argument.  If you ignore the facts and continue to harp that you're right and the other person is wrong, you're getting nowhere and quite frankly, not helping your argument at all.  Let's try to get along, guys.  We're all Pats fans here.  You guys seem like good people.  You just get a little testy in your arguments.  :-)

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    I will just bring up the phrase, Paper Champs!  Lets not be the team that wins it all in August like the Jets have done. I like the team, I like the youth, etc. BUT noone has any idea how its all gonna look. I have seen too many loaded teams to disrespect them by saying this team is better before playing one preseason game. Too many questions. Sure the rooks have come along well, but once the lights come on and gameplans are in, lets see how they perform week to week. Who are our tight ends on opening day? What have they done in the league? I am excited that our D should be better, but noone knows how much better. I will temper my predictions until after the 1st quarter(1st 4 games)
     but im excited because atleast its something different so we arent being insane anymore and going in the same way we did the last 4 years. Be happy but be patient and expect growing pains. If we come out like world beaters, Great, But I want postseason success. Gonna be a while before we can compare this team to others. Just Enoy it!

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    I will just bring up the phrase, Paper Champs!  Lets not be the team that wins it all in August like the Jets have done. I like the team, I like the youth, etc. BUT noone has any idea how its all gonna look. I have seen too many loaded teams to disrespect them by saying this team is better before playing one preseason game. Too many questions. Sure the rooks have come along well, but once the lights come on and gameplans are in, lets see how they perform week to week. Who are our tight ends on opening day? What have they done in the league? I am excited that our D should be better, but noone knows how much better. I will temper my predictions until after the 1st quarter(1st 4 games)
     but im excited because atleast its something different so we arent being insane anymore and going in the same way we did the last 4 years. Be happy but be patient and expect growing pains. If we come out like world beaters, Great, But I want postseason success. Gonna be a while before we can compare this team to others. Just Enoy it!

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     



    Nice to see you remembering to take your meds

     

     Solid post from you.




    Stop the M -F'n Presses!  I appreciate the kind words, but im consistent. You have been the one acting like you smoked a lace dubie of hocus pocus. I'll send some better bud your way. Nothing but trash out in N.C.. Where u staying? Shall I google the most expensive condos in the best area or you near the Panthers stadium?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    Tough to compare to a 14-2 and a 13-3 team. 

    The team has a better overall strategy this year.  BB has been evolving the hurry-up offense and it was murder last year, despite the team having no "X" wide receivers at all. 

    QB is about perfect.  If Tebow slightly works out this year (if he either doesn't get cut or if he gets called back in November) various opponents will be using the Lord's name in one form or another, because it's like a pitcher adding a good curve ball.  I have no doubt that BB will use him in obvious running situations, when his passing liabilities don't add up to a hill of beans.

    "X" receivers are better this year than since 2009 when Randy Moss stretched the field, and certainly better than last year when opponents crowded the line.  KT beats Dobson.

    Slot receivers are deep and good.  For a while, Brady had Wes Welker and then Julian Edelman could sort of play in a pinch.  This year, Boyce wants to get behind Amendola.  I suspect that Brady won't lead Amendola into any linebackers and get him injured, the way his previous QB did when he alone was the team's only offense on the field.

    Tight end is just a wonder to behold.  Ballard plus Suds, no draft choice wasted on either of them, almost equals Hernandez.  Gronk might be on the field by game 4, or they might wait until game 7 to allow a 54th player to slide by the September 1 deadline.

    The O-line is solid.  The running backs are solid and deep.

    The D-line is better than last year, with a healthy Chandler Jones and Tommy Kelly is a find.  Nink wants the other job, and there are substitutes behind the starters too.  Linebacker is both solid and deeper.  

    The defensive backfield is ordinary, which is better than "a little weak", which would be typical.  Aqib Talib is solid.  McCourty is solid.  Dennard is solid and he will beat the drunk driving rap and stay out of jail.  The Rutgers third rounders both have a pulse and are getting a surprising number of reps with the starters.  Behind them is good depth, although there's not exactly a Revis Island in the bunch.

    I can't say "most talented".  Losing Hernandez was a blow.  Losing Gronk for a little while is rough.  Going from Wes Welker to Amendola was a downgrade.   I'll only say "as talented". 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to sw4288's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to sw4288's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    The first drive of the Tampa game was a thing of beauty. Well executed, using Develin like they used to use Heath Evans, Patrick Pass etc. Matt Chatham tweeted during the game that one of the most important things for the offense is getting 5+ yards on the ground on first down. Ridley was just getting chunks, you put yourself in second and third and managable and you're going to have success. The drive ate up about 7 minutes of clock as well. That's what I'd like to see from this offense this season. The whole run/pass ratio has been beaten to death, Brady's strange post season play, but that opening drive against Tampa was amazing. Keep that going and we'll roll.


    Defensively, Spikes was a monster blitzing. I don't know anything about the Bucs o-line but he was flying. What Brandon Spikes brings on first and second down I think is invaluable. Chandler looked like a beast. That run stuff was awesome. Good to see Logan Ryan get a pick six as well. We'll see what happens when the starters suit up for a little longer on Thursday. This team is exciting and I hope they take the "they didn't believe we could do it" attitude like Rodney had.

     

     




    I agree with Chatham, but against the good front 7s, which is what TB's is, if we come out with the spread, we never even have a chance to establish the run.

     

     

    You have to commit to the run vs the better front 7s, because it opens up the playbook. 

    That's been my whole argument here for years. I can tell if we might lose a game just by how we come out early in the game on offesnse. I am not kidding you.

    We play with fire when we use finesse vs a good or great front 7, and we usually lose, with everyone coming running in to blame our D, which is beyond old at this point.

    I can look at our schedule right now and tell you the teams we can throw on with shotgun spreads and it not be a huge factor.

    Bills and Jets? Sure. No problem. Neither team has much of a pass rushing strength and they have sketchy LBs and DBs.

    @ Atlanta? We must run the ball early and often in that game and we might win it.   If we don't, we will likely lose it.

    To me, it's so simple.  You up your odds to win with a larger playbook at the disposal of a Tom Brady.

    Subbing in your RB to pretend to run in the 3rd qtr is too easy to tell what is coming and you cannot establish a run from the shotgun either.

    Ridley/Bolden  (75% use, hammer the rock, only sub these guys on and off if they need a rest, but use them the same)

    Vereen/Blount (25% use or in specific situations like shotgun spreads or wrinkles)*

    Now, that doesn't mean I don't want Vereen in there as a slot WR against an LB.*

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Great point about the ATL game. That is gonna be a huge road game and I agree, they need to go in there and hit them in the mouth. This team cannot be out physical'd in big games anymore. That has to be a point of emphasis.

     


    The Seattle game last year is the perfect example. D played sketchy at times, gave up big pass plays, but our offense pissed that one away and Brady threw upwards of 60 times with the lead. Our defense in the third Q was getting to Wilson, I believe Jones had 2 sacks and Vince may have had one as well. They were put in bad situations. A lot of people will look at the D being in base in the final minute of the fourth, but against Lynch, and a running QB you take your chances. I look at the fact that we ran for close to 300 yards against Denver and then turned around to throw it 55 plus against a defense who is close to the best in the league against the pass.

    [/QUOTE]


    This team is BUILT to run the ball with a great stable of 5 backs (Ridley, Blount, vereen, Bolden, and tebow) that can pound the rock...  Behind a massive and gelling OL, TE group.

     

    Brady is older and slower.  HAND THE BALL OFF.  It just makes so much sense.  Preserve the guy.  Go back to the glory days  of Dillon and Weis.  Any QB is better off with a good running game.  the defense benefits too by taking time off the clock, shortening the game.  The pass happy offense had its day when it was new and different.  The shotgun would dominate certain teams. 

     Now teams are built to stop it.  San Fran mauled Welker and Lloyd at the line and got away with it.  the pass rush finished the job.  Other teams like Seattle copied, etc.  And there was no plan B.  Weis always had a plan B, or C and made game plan changes in real time.  Pass happy got predictable. 

    This team is showing signs of getting past their stale tendencies.  The tight end dominant offense was the first step in that direction.  Now a more dominant run offense can be the final piece to the puzzle, and it will be great to see.  

    BB seems to be stacking this team in the right places.  This could be another epic year for the ages.  Gotta love this team .  It is definitely not boring. 

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know it's early, but after the first two preseason games, I'm thinking this is the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007.  At just about every position I see a lot of guys who are young and athletic with tons of potential.  No more old guys.  No more misfits and marginal players cut from other squads.  This looks like a team with lots and lots of upside to me . . . and at least decent quality and diversity at almost every position.  Mostly, it's a team with a lot of youth and a lot of athleticism.  

    My favourite group right now is the LBs and all the edge players.  Hightower and Jones both look ready to break out.  And I just love the athleticism of Fletcher, Collins, Bernard, Buchanan, and Beauharnais.  Already we're seeing better pass rush and pass coverage from those guys.  This to me is a huge, huge improvement on defense.  

    I love Kelly and Wilfork in the middle.  Worried about depth there, but that's looking like a great starting unit in the middle of the D line.  

    It's hard to judge the secondary with McCourty and Dennard out, but gotta like Talib.  And while the young guys are making lots of mistakes, I'm liking the athleticism.  Harmon, I think, is gonna surprise people.  He'll be the fourth safety I think (after McCourty, Gregory, and A. Wilson, in that order)--and may start winning snaps from Gregory by midseason.  Intrigued by Justin Green too . . . . the guy's getting a lot of snaps and while he doesn't look like a great cover corner to me seems to be around the ball and seems to be quite physical.  May end up as the ninth or tenth DB. 

    On offense, gotta love the RBs.  Ridley and Vereen really look like a quality NFL backfield.  As much as you gotta like the hardworking Woodheads and BJGEs of the world, those guys are really marginal starters.  Ridley and Vereen, however, bring us the kind of quality we've needed to make the running game a real part of the offense.  The back-ups are all pretty good too.  

    And then there are all the new receivers.  Amendola and Brady seem to have the same chemistry as Welker and Brady, but with Amendola being bigger and faster. Then there are young, outside receivers (Dobson, Tompkins, and Boyce), who will add a whole new dimension to our offense that has been missing for years. 

    The TEs are good too . . . and once Gronk is back, we'll have a nice unit there with plenty of depth.  With Hern gone, I doubt the passing offense will be quite as TE focused as it was last year, but these guys will block well in the running game and will still have a lot of receptions.  

    I doubt Devlin will stick, but it was kind of nice to see a real FB in the offense . . . a guy who not only blocks and catches, but runs hard in short yardage situations . . . 

    I've said for years that the Pats have done remarkably well given talent that never seemed quite up to championship quality.  I think now we are turning once again into a really talented, athletic team.  The coaching will be as stellar as ever, and with all the young, athletic football players on the team I think the Pats are in the best shape they've been in since about 2007.  

    As Pete Carroll would have said . . . "we're pumped and jacked" about this year . . . 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I started this thread last year, but as I look over the roster this year, I'm thinking the title of this thread is still valid . . . because in my opinion we're even better this Labour Day than we were a year ago. Here's what I like about this year's version of the team:

     

    • The secondary is great.  If we think in conventional terms--two corners, two safeties--we might think the second safety spot is weak. But I don't think that's the way to view the secondary on this team.  I think we're going to have a core of McCourty, Revis, and one other corner--three guys.  And then we'll add additional DBs around the core depending on situations and match ups.  Arrington is going to play a big role as a small safety or nickel corner. Harmon will be the more traditional safety Wilson and/or Chung will give us a heavier set of options if we want to focus more on the running game.  Then we may use Ryan and Butler if we want to emphasize pass defense. 
    • The front seven may lack depth . . . or it may not.  Again, I think you have to look at it through an unconventional lens.  I see this front seven as basically three positions: core interior down linemen (two or three in most formations), edge guys (two in most formations) and backers (two or three in most formations).  At the core, we've got five guys (Wilfork,Easley, Siliga, Vellano, and Chirs Jones) playing two or three positions, and Chandler Jones can move inside if we need a sixth.  For those edge roles we have Chandler Jones, Nink, Buchanon, Moore, Hightower, Flemming, and maybe Collins--at least seven guys who can fill the two slots.   And then on the backers, we've got Mayo, Collins, Hightower, Flemming, White, and, in a pinch, Nink--six to cover two or three positions. Versatility means depth without lots of roster slots. 
    • Moving to offense, Brady remains great, but have we ever had better depth at QB?  Hopefully we never have to use that depth, but if Garoppolo were ever to have to come in for a few games, I don't think I'd assume the season was over. 
    • I like the WRs/TEs much better than I did last year.  Last year I saw potential, but wasn't 100% sure the receivers would live up to the potential.  This year, I feel better.  In large part, that's because Dobson and Thompkins do look (from what we've seen) to have progressed.  Amendola and Edelman are excellent in the slot and I'm much more comfortable with them when we have some real outside receivers to complement them.  Gronk (if healthy) is the best in the league . . . and Wright gives us another bigger receiver, something we really needed when Gronk was out. 
    • The backs excite me in the passing game . . . I like Vereen and Develin as receivers.  I wasn't overly impressed with White's running, but I'm hoping he's a contributor in the passing game.  And Ridley and Boldin give us some run-focused options (though I think this is looking like a pass heavy team unless Ridley stops fumbling).
    • The one concern I have is with the interior O line.  The Mankins trade has left some big question marks on an interior line that seemed to need some improvement.  Tackles (if healthy) are fine . . . but we'll have to see what the interior line looks like.  Right now, I just haven't seen enough from anyone to feel confident that the line hasn't gone backwards rather than forward.  But the jury is still out . . . I'm hoping for the best. 
    • Finally, the kicking game remains a strength . . . good coverage units and good kickers. 

    Really, there's a lot to be optimistic about.  O line is my only question mark.  I'm not sure exactly how good the offensive weapons will be, but we've got so many intriguing options, I'm certain enough will gel to make this a top 5 offense.  And I think the defense is going to be special.  Maybe not number 1, but certainly top 10.  This seems to be the most complete team we've had since 2007.  There's a real chance that this team not only makes it to the Super Bowl, but finally has the horses to get over the hump and win. 

    Barring injury of course . . . 

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    Pro, good stuff!!!!

    I hate to nit pick but the one thing you failed to mention was coaching. The one thing you can consistently say over the years is that they are very rarely not prepared for the opponent they are facing. BB isn't perfect but for the most part he has this ready week almost every week.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know it's early, but after the first two preseason games, I'm thinking this is the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007.  At just about every position I see a lot of guys who are young and athletic with tons of potential.  No more old guys.  No more misfits and marginal players cut from other squads.  This looks like a team with lots and lots of upside to me . . . and at least decent quality and diversity at almost every position.  Mostly, it's a team with a lot of youth and a lot of athleticism.  

    My favourite group right now is the LBs and all the edge players.  Hightower and Jones both look ready to break out.  And I just love the athleticism of Fletcher, Collins, Bernard, Buchanan, and Beauharnais.  Already we're seeing better pass rush and pass coverage from those guys.  This to me is a huge, huge improvement on defense.  

    I love Kelly and Wilfork in the middle.  Worried about depth there, but that's looking like a great starting unit in the middle of the D line.  

    It's hard to judge the secondary with McCourty and Dennard out, but gotta like Talib.  And while the young guys are making lots of mistakes, I'm liking the athleticism.  Harmon, I think, is gonna surprise people.  He'll be the fourth safety I think (after McCourty, Gregory, and A. Wilson, in that order)--and may start winning snaps from Gregory by midseason.  Intrigued by Justin Green too . . . . the guy's getting a lot of snaps and while he doesn't look like a great cover corner to me seems to be around the ball and seems to be quite physical.  May end up as the ninth or tenth DB. 

    On offense, gotta love the RBs.  Ridley and Vereen really look like a quality NFL backfield.  As much as you gotta like the hardworking Woodheads and BJGEs of the world, those guys are really marginal starters.  Ridley and Vereen, however, bring us the kind of quality we've needed to make the running game a real part of the offense.  The back-ups are all pretty good too.  

    And then there are all the new receivers.  Amendola and Brady seem to have the same chemistry as Welker and Brady, but with Amendola being bigger and faster. Then there are young, outside receivers (Dobson, Tompkins, and Boyce), who will add a whole new dimension to our offense that has been missing for years. 

    The TEs are good too . . . and once Gronk is back, we'll have a nice unit there with plenty of depth.  With Hern gone, I doubt the passing offense will be quite as TE focused as it was last year, but these guys will block well in the running game and will still have a lot of receptions.  

    I doubt Devlin will stick, but it was kind of nice to see a real FB in the offense . . . a guy who not only blocks and catches, but runs hard in short yardage situations . . . 

    I've said for years that the Pats have done remarkably well given talent that never seemed quite up to championship quality.  I think now we are turning once again into a really talented, athletic team.  The coaching will be as stellar as ever, and with all the young, athletic football players on the team I think the Pats are in the best shape they've been in since about 2007.  

    As Pete Carroll would have said . . . "we're pumped and jacked" about this year . . . 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I started this thread last year, but as I look over the roster this year, I'm thinking the title of this thread is still valid . . . because in my opinion we're even better this Labour Day than we were a year ago. Here's what I like about this year's version of the team:

     

    • The secondary is great.  If we think in conventional terms--two corners, two safeties--we might think the second safety spot is weak. But I don't think that's the way to view the secondary on this team.  I think we're going to have a core of McCourty, Revis, and one other corner--three guys.  And then we'll add additional DBs around the core depending on situations and match ups.  Arrington is going to play a big role as a small safety or nickel corner. Harmon will be the more traditional safety Wilson and/or Chung will give us a heavier set of options if we want to focus more on the running game.  Then we may use Ryan and Butler if we want to emphasize pass defense. 
    • The front seven may lack depth . . . or it may not.  Again, I think you have to look at it through an unconventional lens.  I see this front seven as basically three positions: core interior down linemen (two or three in most formations), edge guys (two in most formations) and backers (two or three in most formations).  At the core, we've got five guys (Wilfork,Easley, Siliga, Vellano, and Chirs Jones) playing two or three positions, and Chandler Jones can move inside if we need a sixth.  For those edge roles we have Chandler Jones, Nink, Buchanon, Moore, Hightower, Flemming, and maybe Collins--at least seven guys who can fill the two slots.   And then on the backers, we've got Mayo, Collins, Hightower, Flemming, White, and, in a pinch, Nink--six to cover two or three positions. Versatility means depth without lots of roster slots. 
    • Moving to offense, Brady remains great, but have we ever had better depth at QB?  Hopefully we never have to use that depth, but if Garoppolo were ever to have to come in for a few games, I don't think I'd assume the season was over. 
    • I like the WRs/TEs much better than I did last year.  Last year I saw potential, but wasn't 100% sure the receivers would live up to the potential.  This year, I feel better.  In large part, that's because Dobson and Thompkins do look (from what we've seen) to have progressed.  Amendola and Edelman are excellent in the slot and I'm much more comfortable with them when we have some real outside receivers to complement them.  Gronk (if healthy) is the best in the league . . . and Wright gives us another bigger receiver, something we really needed when Gronk was out. 
    • The backs excite me in the passing game . . . I like Vereen and Develin as receivers.  I wasn't overly impressed with White's running, but I'm hoping he's a contributor in the passing game.  And Ridley and Boldin give us some run-focused options (though I think this is looking like a pass heavy team unless Ridley stops fumbling).
    • The one concern I have is with the interior O line.  The Mankins trade has left some big question marks on an interior line that seemed to need some improvement.  Tackles (if healthy) are fine . . . but we'll have to see what the interior line looks like.  Right now, I just haven't seen enough from anyone to feel confident that the line hasn't gone backwards rather than forward.  But the jury is still out . . . I'm hoping for the best. 
    • Finally, the kicking game remains a strength . . . good coverage units and good kickers. 

    Really, there's a lot to be optimistic about.  O line is my only question mark.  I'm not sure exactly how good the offensive weapons will be, but we've got so many intriguing options, I'm certain enough will gel to make this a top 5 offense.  And I think the defense is going to be special.  Maybe not number 1, but certainly top 10.  This seems to be the most complete team we've had since 2007.  There's a real chance that this team not only makes it to the Super Bowl, but finally has the horses to get over the hump and win. 

    Barring injury of course . . . 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Agree across the board. And Tyms is a dark horse to make an impact. Browner getting 4 games to be healthy just gives a better chance of his health late in the season and of other guys getting really meaningful time early. You should expect Butler to make some rookie mistakes so each game is a plus for him.

    I would not rule out one or two more headline moves between now and opening day.

    While this team controls it fate (meaning it has the talent to truly control it) health is the one thing that can derail any of the top teams. If we have early or mid season injuries that will come back soon enough for the playoffs but bad enough to impact our record we also have early indications that the Jests are alrready having some troubles (mostly in the secondary but also in their recent high draft pick WR Hill just not panning out and so leaving the passing game with limited receiving talent). That gives some potential extra room to recover from any short term injury skid.

    But returning to the actual talent level, yes this looks like a blue chip team.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pro, good stuff!!!!

    I hate to nit pick but the one thing you failed to mention was coaching. The one thing you can consistently say over the years is that they are very rarely not prepared for the opponent they are facing. BB isn't perfect but for the most part he has this ready week almost every week.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not nit picking at all.  I was focused on the roster, but if you asked me what the top strength of this team is, I'd tell you "coaching" without any hesitation at all.  BB is the best in the league--probably the best ever.  And it's in all aspects of coaching . . . talent selection, schemes, game planning, play calling, player preparation, skill refinement . . . everything.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    19-0

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    I really like what I see - young, athletic, fast - with a good vet mix.

    Really good post, pro.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    Good thread, it's a nice way to look back at what people thought of the team in previous seasons.

    As for this year, this is what I think..

    I think the offensive line is going to cause some problems. I would like to see the running game take off, but with our line and White looking like he couldn't run through a stiff wind, I think it's not going to be productive.

    I think our receiving core will be solid.

    I think if Gronk comes back everything on offense will be great, if he gets hurt again we will get beat like a drum in the playoffs to a better team.

    I think this is the best secondary we have had in a long long time, and that should really help this defense/team.

    I think Jaime Collins is going to be our best defender and I think Mayo is going to struggle.

    I think Chandler Jones will become one of the best defensive ends in football.

    I think Hightower will continue to not impress.

    I think some costly drops and injuries will get us to 11-5, but I hope we are healthy for the playoffs and win another Super Bowl...if we are healthy at the right time I could see that happening.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    I don't know. 2012 was more talented on offense. I believe Welker in his prime and Hernandez in civilian clothes was pretty rad, and they even got a late season nudge from Mark Anderson on defense. 

    All told, barring injuries, it might be. 

    Though, I am not that high on 2007 as a "total talent" team. It was a team that could embarrass anyone who couldn't stop their deep routes, and got lucky against a couple teams who could do that. But in total talent, the defense was aging and or stocked with kids that would never amount to anything. 

    I don't think it is the standard the way that the 2003 team was, at any rate, which had a lot of the same people, but in their prime, and more. 

    Still, I am super thrilled to see the cornerbacks play this season ... who is going to have a better defensive backfield than New England? How wicked is Collins going to be if New England keeps leveraging him like a wild-card like they did down the stretch last season? I'm excited about this defense. 

    Just hoping that Gronk can be healthy so the offense can look good. 

     
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    I do.  I'm not as high on our 2007 team as most though.  From the Eagles game onward we looked good but not great.  D coordinators started to figure us out.

    I like our chances this year, but we need more luck on the health front.  Several years back a reporter for a Dallas paper wrote a great article that showed how closely health correlates to winning in the NFL, and especially playoff appearances.  That's what makes the Pats so great.  It's amazing how we find ways to win even when the team gets decimated in one or more positions.  I truly believe that any other team with so many key injuries like what we had last year would not end up with a winning record, and definitely not make it to the AFCCG.

    But isn't it nice to go into every season knowing you will have a winning season, make it to the playoffs, and have a shot at winning it all?  Not bad for having a terrible GM lol.


    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    "But isn't it nice to go into every season knowing you will have a winning season, make it to the playoffs, and have a shot at winning it all? Not bad for having a terrible GM lol."


    He is a good to great GM depending. But he lost a bit of his fastball compared to what Pete Carroll built in Seattle - and yes, I never thought I would be typing that sentence.


    And no, it's not good enough for me to make the playoffs and I would hope it's not good enough for BB. His aggressive moves this offseason indicate he feels the same. 


    Denver kicked our tails and Seattle kicked Denver's. I don't want to make the playoffs just to have our tails kicked in by superior teams. 


    I don't think we had a shot at winning it all last year once Gronk went down (a predictable outcome). We'll see this year. 


    Granted, your views are not wrong, they are just different than mine. I would say that overall, the Pats ownership and management lean towards your view of sustained excellence. Whereas I want to see "all in" urgency. 


    So, for the OP, it is a talented team but health is far more important than talent on paper as many have pointed out. 


    On paper, are we good enough to win it all? I believe so.


       

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good thread, it's a nice way to look back at what people thought of the team in previous seasons.

    As for this year, this is what I think..

    I think the offensive line is going to cause some problems. I would like to see the running game take off, but with our line and White looking like he couldn't run through a stiff wind, I think it's not going to be productive.

    I think our receiving core will be solid.

    I think if Gronk comes back everything on offense will be great, if he gets hurt again we will get beat like a drum in the playoffs to a better team.

    I think this is the best secondary we have had in a long long time, and that should really help this defense/team.

    I think Jaime Collins is going to be our best defender and I think Mayo is going to struggle.

    I think Chandler Jones will become one of the best defensive ends in football.

    I think Hightower will continue to not impress.

    I think some costly drops and injuries will get us to 11-5, but I hope we are healthy for the playoffs and win another Super Bowl...if we are healthy at the right time I could see that happening.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I almost missed this. The Offensive line is almost as much of a concern this year as WR and CB depth were last season. 

    "I think if Gronk comes back everything on offense will be great, if he gets hurt again we will get beat like a drum in the playoffs to a better team."

    This, scarily, is what this team seems to be. I fear the same. The point differential and win percebtage differential with and without Gronkowski are phenomenal. 

    I mean they are slightly above .500 and a ~24 point team without the guy. They lose only very infrequently with him. 

    He is that important. 

    Still, I believe the addition of Revis and Browner gives New England another area to hang their hat. They AREN'T just an offense now, but can legitimately boast one of the best back 7-8's in football -- even if their line is mediocre. 

    That is cause for hope: after the TE connection, the 2012 Pats had nuthin'! 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Yeah, I almost missed this. The Offensive line is almost as much of a concern this year as WR and CB depth were last season. 

    "I think if Gronk comes back everything on offense will be great, if he gets hurt again we will get beat like a drum in the playoffs to a better team."

    This, scarily, is what this team seems to be. I fear the same. The point differential and win percebtage differential with and without Gronkowski are phenomenal. 

    I mean they are slightly above .500 and a ~24 point team without the guy. They lose only very infrequently with him. 

    He is that important. 

    Still, I believe the addition of Revis and Browner gives New England another area to hang their hat. They AREN'T just an offense now, but can legitimately boast one of the best back 7-8's in football -- even if their line is mediocre. 

    That is cause for hope: after the TE connection, the 2012 Pats had nuthin'! 

    [/QUOTE]


    I think the O line is the one major question mark with the team.  Honestly, I think this may be the year where the offense finally isn't so Gronk dependent.  I think the passing game is going to be more varied with LaFell, with Thompkins and Dobson having more experience, with a (hopefully) healthy Vareen, and possibly with Wright as a TE/receiver hybrid.  It just seems like we have more passing options with greater diversity of skills.  In the past, it was mostly Gronk and a small slot receiver.  Take away Gronk and the whole passing game was concentrated on short quick passes to small slots. 

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Yeah, I almost missed this. The Offensive line is almost as much of a concern this year as WR and CB depth were last season. 

    "I think if Gronk comes back everything on offense will be great, if he gets hurt again we will get beat like a drum in the playoffs to a better team."

    This, scarily, is what this team seems to be. I fear the same. The point differential and win percebtage differential with and without Gronkowski are phenomenal. 

    I mean they are slightly above .500 and a ~24 point team without the guy. They lose only very infrequently with him. 

    He is that important. 

    Still, I believe the addition of Revis and Browner gives New England another area to hang their hat. They AREN'T just an offense now, but can legitimately boast one of the best back 7-8's in football -- even if their line is mediocre. 

    That is cause for hope: after the TE connection, the 2012 Pats had nuthin'! 

    [/QUOTE]


    I think the O line is the one major question mark with the team.  Honestly, I think this may be the year where the offense finally isn't so Gronk dependent.  I think the passing game is going to be more varied with LaFell, with Thompkins and Dobson having more experience, with a (hopefully) healthy Vareen, and possibly with Wright as a TE/receiver hybrid.  It just seems like we have more passing options with greater diversity of skills.  In the past, it was mostly Gronk and a small slot receiver.  Take away Gronk and the whole passing game was concentrated on short quick passes to small slots. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

    i agree, but I am a little worried about lb depth, and nick and jones need to be rotated more than last year

    but as starters this is the best since 2007 IMO

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Anybody else think this may be the most talented team the Pats have had since 2007?

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

    i agree, but I am a little worried about lb depth, and nick and jones need to be rotated more than last year

    but as starters this is the best since 2007 IMO

    [/QUOTE]


    LBs do look thin, but I think a lot of the front seven players have position flexibility, so even if only Mayo, Collins, Hightower, and Flemming are listed as LBs, Nink and Jones play LB-like roles in many formations.  And then there will be lots of 5 and 6 DB formations that may not require as many true LBs.  So depending on how they play things, the LBs may be deep enough.  

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share