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Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    I think he's a great GM, maybe the best, except for drafting. When he picked  Dowling a few years  ago I was shocked, it made me think he didn't do his homework on the guy. I follow UVA football and anyone else who does would be able tell that he will NEVER make it through an NFL season without going on IR. worst pick in franchise history .. Jermaine Cunningham was very bad too..

    I love Belichick but think he's a below average drafter.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    Well I think he's no better and no worse than anyone else...he's made mistakes over the last five years that I think cost us a Super Bowl, but he is the best coach I've ever seen. I think this whole organization has gotten caught up in the "we are smarter than you" mind set, when they really aren't. Brady has given them all huge egos and false senses of security, without him we'd be in the same boat as everyone else. I imagine little Jonathan Kraft will find that out soon enough.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    I'd put a lot of the blame on the scouting staff.  That's their one job after all.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    maybe part of his legacy is due to a little bit of lady luck and Brady

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    Interesting read from Agent, Jack Bechta about what makes the perfect GM



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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    "I would agree drafting is his weakest quality as a GM."

    Hmm not sure if I agree there....he had a rough drafting stretch for a few years but last few years (post Pioli, not sure if that matters, just establishing the time frame), he has been pretty solid - he has some quirks and often seems to do best in the late rounds. Not sure if I would call him a draft genuis but I don't think it's his worst GM quality. 

    I'd say his worst GM quality is either paying or evaluating marquee free agents, including the rigid "value based" philosophy he often has applied to his own players. The problem is that being too rigid in negotiations you can lose track of the unique value a player has in your system. Especially in areas like cornerback (Samuel) or receiver (Branch - even better example, losing branch cost us the easier Super Bowl the AFC has won in the last 15 years, ceding it to Peyton instead).. Or taking Mankins to the brink - the examples are endless.

    The way BB handled Pittsburgh's Sanders was borderline incompetent and showed all those weaknesses. It's not as if Sanders was the key to our season, but you either put a premium on a player you want and go get him, or you don't. While a minotiry of blowhards on this board revelled in how BB had forced Pittsburgh to take on more cap (all to sign a player they really needed), sensible people understood making a weak offer Pittsburgh was sure to match was an underconfident and namby-pamby thing to do. Go out and get your man, and make sure it's the right man (unlike Adalius Thomas or even Ocho). 

    BB is way better at drafting than he is at some of these other functions (player retention, marquee free agency). Anything that goes outside his "value realm" exposes his GM weaknesses. Drafting by comparison I think he's pretty strong, though sometimes the value part gets the best of him. His first round picks are generally excellent yet he often trades down. 

    I think the reason folks give BB such a hard time in the draft part is because the draft has become such a big thing in the NFL to set up your playing cards and wait for your GM to draft your besties. BB can be maddening in terms of his draft style and many hate his style. The mistake is to elevate that style to genuis or downgrade it to average. It's somewhere in the middle. 




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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    So you dredge up some quotes from years ago that you use out-of-context (as if they were current) as what? Proof that BB is not the greatest GM in history? OK, fine. So what?

    Wring your hands about some draft pick if you want. He fields pretty competitive teams year after year, isn't that the true measure? Or is it the guy who gets the most value in the draft, according to Kiper/McShay/Mayock and the rest?

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    How many of us are claiming that BB is the greatest GM of all time? History will decide that. Compare him to his peers and he is as good as any of them.

    There are just a handful of teams including New England that manage better than others. Only one of them can win the super bowl. That isn't to say those handful of teams that didn't win it are doing something wrong which is what Babe is trying to tell us.

    Or maybe Babe is just trying to get Rusty's goat.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    I think the quality of a GM is best evaluated by looking at the record of his team. And as such it is hard to argue that BB is a great GM. There is not a team in the history of the cap era that has had a better overall record for a 12 year period than the Pats have had under BB.

    And you can look at specific aspects all you want and the same is going to be true. Drafting - we can all select a few years of brillinace from a specific GM, or great 'hits', but if you evaluate that GM on totality of drafting over any prolonged period there will be terrible moments as well. Given the draft capital assigned to NE over the last decade the statistical analyses all put the Pats at the top. Player retention - people point to specific players lost, but never point to all the players retained because BB did not overpay a single player. People look at two SB losses and other post season losses, but the Pats made it to those games EVERY year - while the other brilliant GMs missed playoffs half the time or failed earlier in the post season. And the locker room in NE has remained one of if not the strongest in the NFL - that speaks to getting the right players, treating them well, keeping the salary structure balanced, and cutting losses and malcontents early.

    So I am not complaining.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    The average career of an NFL player lasts three years, why do certain posters think the Patriots are any different?  

    I look at this team and wonder how even a good coach can win with such terrible players and question where did all the great players came from, I mean if BB stinks at drafting and free agency?

    Then I realize this is just a lovefest for all the gloom and doomers.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    I don't have any disdain for his drafting of young players as any player is a question mark in the NFL unless they goo to a team with very little scheming, meaning small and not very hard to learn verbiage. BB has a notoriously difficult playbook too learn on both sides of the ball, staying healthy isn't something BB can forsee! Drafting an entire secondary from the same school is actually a good idea if they are good. Doubling down seems like a wise choice in drafting tactics and I'm sure every team will be using this tactic soon. Especially after this year.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    Once BB has players in camp and practice, he does a great job of understanding their strengths and weaknesses and then figuring out how best to combine his players and adjust his schemes to ensure that the strengths of his players are accentuated and the weaknesses hidden.   Because of this, when you look at Belichick's teams, you always see a whole that is much greater than the sum of its parts. 

    A lot of BB's player acquisition strategy seems designed to allow lots of flexibility to move players in and out and focus on getting the team right rather than getting the most talented individuals.  The acquisition strategy is also probably motivated in part by the fact that the Pats have been disadvantaged in their picks for two reasons: (1) their consistently high finishing position each year earns them less desirable picks and (2) they have lost some important picks because of spygate and Belichick's own hiring.  With poorer picks than the average team, Belichick seems to want to increase the number of picks he has to get more chances at finding a good player.  The alternative strategy--trading away lots of picks and focusing on one or two top players high in the draft--might give him more impact players, but it would seriously limit his ability to build a deep team because of the reduced number of picks and the high cost (at least prior to the rookie cap) of top draft picks. 

    Overall, I'm comfortable with BB's value strategy, which involves accumulating more mid round picks and being cautious about signing big free agency contracts that bind you to an expensive player for a long time. However, for this strategy to work effectively, you really need to be great at evaluating talent in the mid and lower rounds of the draft and among middling free agents.  Here, I'd say BB is pretty good, but not so good that we can say his strategy as executed as been an unqualified success. While a number of his "value" players have worked out quite well, he's also missed on a large number of them.  In fact, it's not totally clear that he really ended up that far ahead of where he would have been if he had just gone for a few big names.  The one thing that going for big names would have done, however, is resulted in much less flexibiilty.  And given BB's strengths of combining and recombining players, I think he values that flexibility more than anything.  So from that perspective, BB's strategy is clearly a good one for him. 

    Still, for the team to be really dominant in the postseason, it needs a few more impact players.  Going into a season with almost no NFL starting calibre WRs or almost no NFL starting caliber DBs on the team (as we've done in recent years) just doesn't make for a team that will do well against playoff level competition. BB can put all those mediocre players in the best position possible to maximize their strengths and hide their weaknesses, but sometimes they'll just get beaten by the more talented players on the other team.  

    When you evaluate BB as a GM, I think you have to give him credit for his ability to mix and match players to get the most out of the team and for his ability to accumulate a lot of decent talent.  I think he can be criticized, however, for maybe downplaying the importance of having enough true top-tier talents on the team and for missing a bit on some of his evaluation of lower tier draftees and free agents.  When you look at the whole picture, BB is excellent at building and coaching up a very competitive team.  Where he maybe drops a bit is in his ability to acquire and hold on to enough top tier talent to really move the team from being competitive to being dominant. 


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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    When asked about some of the poor decisions made over the years Reiss replied....


    "I think what is most frustrating for many is that these defensive issues are the same things we've been talking about for the last few years"

    "What I would propose is hiring a consultant like Jimmy Johnson".

    "I think the drafting can be better"

    "I think some of the recent personnel moves warrant scrutiny."

    (quotes from ESPN)

    No one is the perfect GM in the NFL. Only a few Rusty-ites on this board think BB walks on water and can do no wrong. Whatever ills the Pats, must be Brady's fault, or a media or Goodell/NFL conspiracy against BB. 

    Any sane person who follows football and especially the Pats understands that while we do not want anyone else calling the shots for the Pats, BB is not with out faults. 

    We all have faults. As fans, we have forums like this one to express our opinions of what the Pats should do, could do, or what we would do. That is part of the beauty of fandom.

    it is unfortunate that while we get to express our opinions on this forum, good, bad or indifferent, we are constantly barraged with personal attacks, put downs and name calling, while we have to put up with endless Brady finger pointing, BB toe licking, and down right lies.

    I have been personally enjoying a 5 and 2 exercise these past couple of weeks. 5 days on ignore, 2 days off ignore with any one who I have been in disagreement with. While it tends to be 1 person, it has made the board much more enjoyable.

    i understand that I must have the same effect on others. Try me on ignore for 5 days...and then 2 days off ignore. Surely your experience on the forum will be much more enjoyable as has mine.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    Every team has picks that don't work out.  If you only focus on those then it looks like he has no clue how to evaluate talent.  However, he has also picked; Gronk, Hernandez, Mayo, Wilfork, Asante Samuel, Solder, and more.  Let's not forget...these crappy players he has been drafting have been to the Super Bowl twice in the last 6 years.

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    Re: Apparently Reiss doesn't think BB is the greatest GM of all time.

    He's not perfect but you don't even have to leave the city of Boston to see ineptitude among GMs of the other major sports teams.

    Can you imagine BB as GM of the Celtics, but having no one else on the roster capable of functioning as a point guard behind RR?  I can't.  Can you imagine him allowing his roster of key players to age to the degree that they hamstring the franchise for the next several years, possibly as much as a decade?  I can't.

    Can you imagine BB as GM of the Red Sox, and allowing veterans to treat the clubhouse like Animal House?  Or bringing in a "player's coach" (BV) that was like putting out a fire with gasoline?  I can't.