Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from David233. Show David233's posts

    Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    Boyer coaches the CB and Patricia the safeties.  I seriously question the coaching these guys are getting.  What is Boyer and Patricia's experience coaching the secondary before they came to the Patriots.

    Butler, Wilhite, Wheately and Meriweather are prime examples of high picks never developing.  Sergio Brown and James Inhegibo should only be playing on special teams. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    They probably are...  the better question is can the players execute?  Seems that is the case as coaches do not play the game.  Sort of like asking, "Can BB coach?"
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]They probably are...  the better question is can the players execute?  Seems that is the case as coaches do not play the game.  Sort of like asking, "Can BB coach?"
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]
    THIS, in spades.  If you were coaching Sergio Brown, Sterling Moore, Julian Edelman, Nate Jones, and Kyle Arrington is your stud guy???  Good luck with that. Besides none of those other guys (wheatley, butler, etc) blew up after leaving NE, it's just poor drafting and poor overall talent.  Best coaches on planet earth can't change that.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    I think its a combination of poor coaching and execution.

    BB probably needs to hire a DC with new coordinators next year, even if the patrots win the Super Bowl


    Nascar owner Tony Stewart won the championship this year and still fired his crew chief.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from expertmike. Show expertmike's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    Here's a bit of info about Boyer, the CB's coach...

    After graduating from Muskingum College,[1] where he played football as a wide receiver and defensive back, he began his coaching career in 2000 as a graduate assistant at King's College, Pennsylvania, and then served in the same capacity at the University of Dayton in 2001 and Kent State University in 2002 and 2003. In 2004, Boyer served as the defensive backs coach at Bryant University. He then served as the defensive coordinator at the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology in 2005 before joining the Patriots in 2006 as a defensive coaching assistant. He was promoted to defensive backs coach following the 2008 season.

    (scary... defensive coordinator at the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology.  Inspires confidence.). 



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from expertmike. Show expertmike's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    And here's a bit of information about Patricia...

    Patricia began his coaching career as a graduate assistant at his alma mater, RPI, in 1996. He spent the next two seasons out of football before returning as the defensive line coach for Amherst College from 1999 to 2000. In 2001, he moved to Syracuse University as an offensive graduate assistant for the team, a position he held for three seasons.

    -----
    It seems to me neither of these guys has the qualifications to coach/guide/instruct any defensive back who has NFL-level talent or even major college level talent.  These schmucks are the bottom of the barrel. BB's response to other teams raiding the Patriots of coaches - hire guys so obviously unqualified that no other team would think of trying to steal them away.

    How could these guys possibly help make Butler, DMC, etc. better players?  "Well, Devlin, at Amherst we had a situation exactly like this with Williams College, and here's what we did... ". 




      
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]They probably are...  the better question is can the players execute?  Seems that is the case as coaches do not play the game.  Sort of like asking, "Can BB coach?"
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    well, yes and no. Even good players need coaching to get them prepared for any game.  If the problem is that there's not enough talent or the player's aren't "executing" - then what was/is the root cause of the lack of talent?

    If, as you imply it's not the coaching - and we assume that it is exclusively the lack of talent - then it's because the Patriot organization failed to draft or acquire the right player for the job.  It's not like this is the first year we've had problems in the secondary.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    OK one thing that continues to drive me out of my skin, Jonathan Wilhite WAS NOT A BUST.  A 4TH ROUND PICK CANNOT BE A "BUST".  Total, absolute, utter nonsense.  If you are expecting a 4th rounder to develop into a starting outside corner, you are a loon.  I can't stand when people call him a high pick, because as a matter of plain fact he was not.  Whealtey, Butler, sure they were busts....but Wilhite was a 2nd day guy, what do you expect?  When you trade down, you are on average going to be selecting players with lesser talent.  A 1st rounder is very likely going to be better than a mid 2nd rounder, sometimes I think BB gets too cute moving down again and again.  No sense in peddling for more/lower picks if you're still swinging and missing 50% of the time.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]Boyer coaches the CB and Patricia the safeties.  I seriously question the coaching these guys are getting.  What is Boyer and Patricia's experience coaching the secondary before they came to the Patriots. Butler, Wilhite, Wheately and Meriweather are prime examples of high picks never developing.  Sergio Brown and James Inhegibo should only be playing on special teams. 
    Posted by David233[/QUOTE]


    david, i posted same at beginning of season.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]Here's a bit of info about Boyer, the CB's coach... After graduating from Muskingum College , [ 1 ] where he played football as a wide receiver and defensive back, he began his coaching career in 2000 as a graduate assistant at King's College, Pennsylvania , and then served in the same capacity at the University of Dayton in 2001 and Kent State University in 2002 and 2003. In 2004, Boyer served as the defensive backs coach at Bryant University . He then served as the defensive coordinator at the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology in 2005 before joining the Patriots in 2006 as a defensive coaching assistant. He was promoted to defensive backs coach following the 2008 season. (scary... defensive coordinator at the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology.  Inspires confidence.). 
    Posted by expertmike[/QUOTE]

    i critiqued all the technique mistakes in the secondary in the preseason. they were never corrected. that's coaching
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]And here's a bit of information about Patricia... Patricia began his coaching career as a graduate assistant at his alma mater, RPI, in 1996. He spent the next two seasons out of football before returning as the defensive line coach for Amherst College from 1999 to 2000 . In 2001 , he moved to Syracuse University as an offensive graduate assistant for the team, a position he held for three seasons. ----- It seems to me neither of these guys has the qualifications to coach/guide/instruct any defensive back who has NFL-level talent or even major college level talent.  These schmucks are the bottom of the barrel. BB's response to other teams raiding the Patriots of coaches - hire guys so obviously unqualified that no other team would think of trying to steal them away. How could these guys possibly help make Butler, DMC, etc. better players?  "Well, Devlin, at Amherst we had a situation exactly like this with Williams College, and here's what we did... ".   

    re: "BB's response to other teams raiding the Patriots of coaches - hire guys so obviously unqualified that no other team would think of trying to steal them away. "

    mike, my theory has been quite different. posted in bdc 3 or 4 times.
    Posted by expertmike[/QUOTE]
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    I don't know who called that blitz in the 4th that left McCourty alone on a deep route with a receiver who can run faster than him but they should get a slap in the head.

    And the PI call with the pass sailing 10 feet in the air--ridiculous
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    When a level of play is consistently this bad, you need to shake things up.  I would let them go, bring in new coaches and the best Defensive Coordinator money and Patriots prestige can buy.  I think it's high time BB does something drastic with this defense of his. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    agree with most posters above.  They've had a revolving door of coaches handling the defensive backfield.  There has been no improvement in the play of all the draft picks come and gone.  It's time we start looking at the coaching or lackthereof and figure things out.  If 31 other teams can execute and draft/sigh defensive backs, then something is definitely amiss and needs to be scrutinized.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]When a level of play is consistently this bad, you need to shake things up.  I would let them go, bring in new coaches and the best Defensive Coordinator money and Patriots prestige can buy.  I think it's high time BB does something drastic with this defense of his. 
    Posted by agill1970[/QUOTE]

    second that
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    On the safeties, it's the players who take bad routes to the ball and react too slowly to break up pass plays that competent safeties can break up (i.e. the Brandon Marshall touchdown catch in the seam where Sergio Brown should have gotten there about 2 seconds sooner)

    On the cornerbacks, it's the coaches.  Cornerback is about preparation and technique and it seems like our cornerbacks are surprised every time an NFL receiver runs a route against them.  The perfect example is Devin McCourty.  Running off the fumes of his coaching at Rutgers, he showed up to camp last year and led the league with 7 interceptions.  After spending enough time around whoever coaches the Patriots' secondary, he's deteriorated to what he is now, which is barely serviceable while showing signs of potential if someone would just show him the way.


    My conclusion: sign Ty Law to coach the secondary (or at least the cornerbacks) because the man truly understood the craft (in fact, his presence on the Jets was a big boost to the development of another #24, Darrelle Revis)
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In response to "Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?": [QUOTE]And here's a bit of information about Patricia... Patricia began his coaching career as a graduate assistant at his alma mater, RPI, in 1996. He spent the next two seasons out of football before returning as the defensive line coach for Amherst College from 1999 to 2000 . In 2001 , he moved to Syracuse University as an offensive graduate assistant for the team, a position he held for three seasons. ----- It seems to me neither of these guys has the qualifications to coach/guide/instruct any defensive back who has NFL-level talent or even major college level talent.  These schmucks are the bottom of the barrel. BB's response to other teams raiding the Patriots of coaches - hire guys so obviously unqualified that no other team would think of trying to steal them away. How could these guys possibly help make Butler, DMC, etc. better players?  "Well, Devlin, at Amherst we had a situation exactly like this with Williams College, and here's what we did... ".     Posted by expertmike[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're looking for on Patricia, some guy who has a doctorate in DB coaching and 30 years experience? That is a fairly extensive resumee, even if you did leave off the 8 years he spent as a coach in the NFL with the Patriots.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]The perfect example is Devin McCourty.  Running off the fumes of his coaching at Rutgers, he showed up to camp last year and led the league with 7 interceptions.  After spending enough time around whoever coaches the Patriots' secondary, he's deteriorated to what he is now, which is barely serviceable while showing signs of potential if someone would just show him the way. 
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]


    I really do worry about the coaching.  I never thought Butler was as good his rookie year as some others thought . . . but still he seemed just to regress in year two.  McCourty is doing the same thing, it seems.  That does make me wonder about the coaching. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    Wow - it's the coaching?  A defensive secondary (with perhaps one exception) comprising the blind, the lame and the hault gives up lots of yardage but is slightly about average (or a little better) in points surrendered and it's the coaching?

    With all due respect to the knowledgeable posters who preceded me on this thread I must disagree.  Bad play calling from time to time?  Name a coach who doesn't do that. Arrington leads the lead in picks and McCourty is playing hurt.  Apart from that I see an injury riddled secondary that is bearing up in large measure because of the coaching.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatFanInBA2. Show PatFanInBA2's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]Wow - it's the coaching?  A defensive secondary (with perhaps one exception) comprising the blind, the lame and the hault gives up lots of yardage but is slightly about average (or a little better) in points surrendered and it's the coaching? With all due respect to the knowledgeable posters who preceded me on this thread I must disagree.  Bad play calling from time to time?  Name a coach who doesn't do that. Arrington leads the lead in picks and McCourty is playing hurt.  Apart from that I see an injury riddled secondary that is bearing up in large measure because of the coaching.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

    DMC is playing hurt? Is that a fact or are you guessing?

    btw, it is the technique everyone is critisizing - not turning around to look for the ball for example !!!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    In Response to Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?:
    [QUOTE]OK one thing that continues to drive me out of my skin, Jonathan Wilhite WAS NOT A BUST.  A 4TH ROUND PICK CANNOT BE A "BUST".  Total, absolute, utter nonsense.  If you are expecting a 4th rounder to develop into a starting outside corner, you are a loon.  I can't stand when people call him a high pick, because as a matter of plain fact he was not.  Whealtey, Butler, sure they were busts....but Wilhite was a 2nd day guy, what do you expect?  When you trade down, you are on average going to be selecting players with lesser talent.  A 1st rounder is very likely going to be better than a mid 2nd rounder, sometimes I think BB gets too cute moving down again and again.  No sense in peddling for more/lower picks if you're still swinging and missing 50% of the time.
    Posted by andrewmcintosh[/QUOTE]

    If you're expecting a 6th round draft choice to become a starting QB you must be a loon as well !!  Just a thought . 

    Hetchinspete. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    Well . . .  you coach the guys you have. Whether or not the Pats know how to assemble a team is another discussion entirely, but if you've got a bunch of cab drivers and insurance salesmen back there, then it's the coaches' job to put them in a scheme to -- at the very least -- minimize the effect of their suckitude on the outcome of the game. That's why New England plays that infuriatingly ineffective zone and gives up five miles in yardage every week.

    I think it's kind of funny that when we discuss, for instance, Tod Haley being fired, plenty of people pipe up and mention all the devastating injuries the Chef's have had to deal with . . .  but here in this thread, with two receivers playing in the defensive backfield alongside six guys who wouldn't be picked up if they were put on waivers tomorrow, we're wondering if the coaches are competent.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tjwoods. Show tjwoods's posts

    Re: Are our Secondary Coaches Competent?

    Thanks for the coache's resumes . . . no wonder this secondary stinks. Couldn't BB at least hire Division I college coaches?

    Of course the talent level in this secondary s low, but now I see the coaching experience is one small step beyond high school.

    But ultimately you have to hold Kraft/BB for being cheap in this area of team development. How long have we as Pats fans been scratching our heads over a secondary that had to play Troy Brown and now Edelman on defense? This is inexcusable.

    I like the idea of hiring Ty Law to coach (and bring Lawyer Milloy too). Those guys stopped the greatest show on turf. A bit more impressive than figuring out what Williams College did in their defensive schemes.
     
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