Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    Just wondering what peoples thoughts were...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    It's just a weak team in general.  Finishing at the top for all these years has hurt when it has come to the draft.  Unable to pick up some of the great talent that comes with the top 10.  Another problem was the Belichick/Pioli draft team.  They didn't do so well.   BB has done a better job on his own.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    They play the softest most vanilla defense in the league and they can't run the ball consistently.

    Is that soft?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    Yep they are a finesse team. The hallmark is that when they need to just pound to ball for a couple of yds or to run the clock down they can't. They are completely dependent on their passing game and running perfect routes. But, I do think they are less of a finesse team then they were last year which is a sign they are moving in the positive direction

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yep they are a finesse team. The hallmark is that when they need to just pound to ball for a couple of yds or to run the clock down they can't. They are completely dependent on their passing game and running perfect routes. But, I do think they are less of a finesse team then they were last year which is a sign they are moving in the positive direction

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree, and it was puzzling watching woodhead try to run out the clock in the 4rth qtr. Then again, woodhead is the shotgun back so.......I hope Ridley gets 20 carries against buffalo. We finally have a rb that most agree can handle a load, but have only rode him once.....which was our only victory btw!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    I know seems kind of strange. I know Ridley is a back that will either get you 5+yds or lose yds but why not give him 20 carries? He'd at least run the D down like he did in Tenn trying to catch him.

    Or at the very least Bolden seems like a back that won't lose you yds. He's like BJGE, might only get you 2-5yds a carry but he doesn't go backwards most of the time. Why not wear the D down with Ridley in the first 3 quarters on 15-20 carries then have Bolden as a bruiser just hit between the T's for 4-5yds a clip (at that point when the D is tired I think that's a fair possibility) and just run things out?

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to Mighty2013's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great, another stir the pot thread from Troll in Hawaii

    [/QUOTE]


    It's a legit question. Think about where in the country the Pats are located and the fanbase. We aren't a finesse fanbase and how we won those SB's reflected that with hard nosed football, grinding out drives, and hard hitting D. After 06' that changed greatly and it's a valid question on whether a finesse team is what's needed to bring us another championship or even if it's right for this fanbase as a whole.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to patsfan76's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yep they are a finesse team. The hallmark is that when they need to just pound to ball for a couple of yds or to run the clock down they can't. They are completely dependent on their passing game and running perfect routes. But, I do think they are less of a finesse team then they were last year which is a sign they are moving in the positive direction

    [/QUOTE]


    But Gronk isn't the O as a whole. Gronk is a classic throwback smack you in the mouth TE but what about the rest of the O last year? They didn't try to cram the run down the opponents throats until the D died. OB gave up the run typically after a couple of carries if they didn't get more then a couple of yds. Hern, Welker, Branch weren't going to hit tacklers and run people over. That OL was always on the defensive and never attacking the D. With the exception of Gronk looking to run people over that O last year was very finesse. At least this year Lloyd is bringing some fight to the WR core in blocking duties and getting off of the line. Gronk is Gronk and at least in the Tenn game McDaniels stuck with the run and just wore out the D. He didn't try to get cute it was tosses and between the T running that eventually broke that D down.


    Then on D how many times last year did they drop back into protect? They weren't going after the QB. I know what Anderson and Carters stats say but the majority of Andersons sacks came from garbage time on the last drive of the game when the Pats already won it and Carters came in bunches not spread out throughout the season. There was no constant pressure being applied, no fear of the Pats D, for the most part last years D line got manhandled

     

    Atleast when we passed last year it was with GRonk and him running over players is not finesse. This year he has like 9 catches thru 3 games and we are emhpasizing Edleman and Lloyd. We are more finess now, if u take out the titans game and only go by real defenses

    [/QUOTE]


     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to Mighty2013's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great, another stir the pot thread from Troll in Hawaii

    [/QUOTE]


    Aaahhh, Mighty Premature Ejaculation comes back to use his only card - the devastating "troll" card.

    "The ball is snappped, the kick is up......"  "oh, ughhg, oh...ughhhh" says mighty pre ejac. "The field goal is no good, wide to the left" says the announcer.  Mighty Pre Ejac is devastated.......for more than one reason....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    Considered by whom?

    The entire NFL has gone "finesse," in case you haven't noticed, and the Pats are as good at it as just about anyone. As I mentioned in another thread yesterday (and today I see two new threads on the topic), the Pats primary problem is an inability to execute in crunch time. They can't get a stop or a first down when they desperately need one and that is why they have become either (a) a solid contender with legitimate Super Bowl aspirations or (b) a perennial bridesmaid . . .  depending upon your perspective.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to jri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    what is the tool for measuring toughness?

    Run D an Rushing O?

    They are 7th against the run ahead of teams like SF, NYG, Pitt, Balt and the ground and pound Jesters.

    They are 12th running the ball ahead of teams such as Chi, NYG, NYJ, Pitt.

    Just throwing this out there.

     [/QUOTE]


    Those are good questions. I don't think that we're questioning the physical toughness of any individual player.  They're all tough athletes, otherwise, they wouldn't have made the team playing a professional sport.

    Offensively, can our running backs get tough yards up the middle by barrelling thru or are we getting running yards on sweep plays? Are we ground and pound?

    Passing wise, are our receivers able to fight for the ball? Are they stepping out of bounds quickly or fighting for that extra yard? Are they bringing the hit to the defender after catching a ball when they have a chance or are they sliding? Is the majority of the passing game based on timing patterns?

    Defensively, are they merely playing to the scheme and vanilla defenses between the 80s or are they being aggressive and creating opportunity for turnovers between the 40's, are they shutting down the opponent in the defensive red zone?

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    They're making a transition from finesse to smashmouth, I think they proved in game one they can run the ball effectively. Against the Ravens they made a choice to play finesse utilizing Woodhead heavily, can't say I fault them since they scored 30 points and only lost because they got jobbed by the replacement refs.

    Now that the real guys are back we should settle into a more regular season...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to p-mike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Considered by whom?

    The entire NFL has gone "finesse," in case you haven't noticed, and the Pats are as good at it as just about anyone. As I mentioned in another thread yesterday (and today I see two new threads on the topic), the Pats primary problem is an inability to execute in crunch time. They can't get a stop or a first down when they desperately need one and that is why they have become either (a) a solid contender with legitimate Super Bowl aspirations or (b) a perennial bridesmaid . . .  depending upon your perspective.

     [/QUOTE]

    execution certainly does play a big part in this, especially during crunch time - cuz that's what we remember.  Some of it is playing style by individuals - and mebbe that's not fair to judge the whole team by any one individual.  Gronk is not a finesse player. He's a balls-to-the-wall banger and takes as many hits as he gives.  Lloyd, is finesse. He catches the ball and steps out asap more often than not. 

    What makes it more difficult is that the team's playing style may be dictated/constrained by the offensive/defensive scheme and coaching style/play calling.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They're making a transition from finesse to smashmouth, I think they proved in game one they can run the ball effectively. Against the Ravens they made a choice to play finesse utilizing Woodhead heavily, can't say I fault them since they scored 30 points and only lost because they got jobbed by the replacement refs.

    Now that the real guys are back we should settle into a more regular season...

    [/QUOTE]

    Wozzy, I'm hoping your right.  Why do you think they strayed away in games 2 and 3?

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    Against the Ravens we had 3 tightends on the field to start the game, certainly not finesse.

    Woodhead got a lot of play though because he is a match up problem, he is effectively a slot receiver out of the backfield that also has a knack for being hard to find when he runs. I think they're trying to define his role as a third down back but a lot of it might also have to do with keeping Ridely healthy for the playoffs, the platoon system that they've used over the past years.  Woody would have been more effective if the replacements didn't slow the game down so much as well.  

    BB doesn't care about Ridely's fantasy stats, or about having a 1000 yard rusher on the team, he would rather have a healthy, effective runner in December and I know how much that bothers some people here but it is "big picture" thinking.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to patsfan76's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Atleast when we passed last year it was with GRonk and him running over players is not finesse. This year he has like 9 catches thru 3 games and we are emhpasizing Edleman and Lloyd. We are more finess now, if u take out the titans game and only go by real defenses

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't have any numbers, but it seems to me like Gronk is being used to block more on passing plays which would make sense since the O-line is still gelling as a unit.  I think we'll see more of him in the passing game as the season goes on.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Against the Ravens we had 3 tightends on the field to start the game, certainly not finesse.

    Woodhead got a lot of play though because he is a match up problem, he is effectively a slot receiver out of the backfield that also has a knack for being hard to find when he runs. I think they're trying to define his role as a third down back but a lot of it might also have to do with keeping Ridely healthy for the playoffs, the platoon system that they've used over the past years.  Woody would have been more effective if the replacements didn't slow the game down so much as well.  

    BB doesn't care about Ridely's fantasy stats, or about having a 1000 yard rusher on the team, he would rather have a healthy, effective runner in December and I know how much that bothers some people here but it is "big picture" thinking.

    [/QUOTE]

    this is simply incorrect. Woodhead was on the field because the Pats were in a spread offense, and Woodhead offered a better check down than Ridley. The discison to run Woodhead out of the spread is Bradys read depending on what he sees from the defense.

    Lets not forget Pats were in spread offense becuase the o-line could not open any holes to run thru...Ridley's YPC was very similar to Woodheads (under 3.0)

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Considered A Finesse Team?

    Ridely would have had a tough time averaging 5 yards against these guys for a complete game.

    Ngata and Kemoeatu are absolute monsters in the middle. If anyone disagrees with my reasoning for more 3-man fronts look to Baltimore for the example, they have two guys that weigh 700 pounds combined.  Then for good measure they add the slew of rush end's who each weigh 280-310 pounds who provide pressure.  You're not running on these guys unless you can disguise each run and use a lot of misdirection but it won't be easy.

    Football is about creating mismatches, thats why they put Woody in.  They scored 30 points, the game was over, review the kick.

     
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