Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

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    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

    Nice post, Pat.
     
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    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

    In Response to Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?:
         All this talk about the Patriots switching to a 4-3 defense is leading me to believe that the Patriots are laying in the weeds, hoping to acquire NY Giants' disgruntled DE, Osi Umenyiora: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/5231/schefter-rumblings-that-osi-is-on-the-bubble        Though Osi has two more years left on his contract with the Giants, he's seeking a substantial raise. The Giants have given him permission to go out and seek a trade. But, with their current asking price being a #1 draft choice...that's not going to happen: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2011/08/01/2011-08-01_giants_give_osi_umenyiora_ok_to_seek_trade_big_blue_wants_at_least_a_first_round.html        But, if the Giants lower their demands to a second rounder, the Patriots could strike. Remember, the Pats own the Raiders second round pick in 2012.      Can you imagine a front line of Wilfolk, Haynesworth, Umenyiora, and, say, Matt Roth? That four man front should remedy the Pats' pass-rushing woes.      Here's a bio. on Osi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osi_Umenyiora   
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Hi Tex,

    The Pats HAVE to find a good DE or OLB. Neither the 4-3 nor 3-4 will work without that person. Osi could be that person but it looks like another Julius Peppers pipe dream.

    I think there are two questions here.
    1. If they go 4-3 who are the DE's (and they need to be elite)?
    2. If they stay 3-4 than who are the OLB's?

    If they don't find some edge presense than its just a Haynesworth for Warren straight swap with no improvement. NE can't depend on interior line sacks.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

    In Response to Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?:
    In Response to Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi? : Hi Tex, The Pats HAVE to find a good DE or OLB. Neither the 4-3 nor 3-4 will work without that person. Osi could be that person but it looks like another Julius Peppers pipe dream. I think there are two questions here. 1. If they go 4-3 who are the DE's (and they need to be elite)? 2. If they stay 3-4 than who are the OLB's? If they don't find some edge presense than its just a Haynesworth for Warren straight swap with no improvement. NE can't depend on interior line sacks.
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron


    I think the Pats best bet is to bring in Roth, not Osi. I like Osi, and possibly what he can bring, but if we are talking scheme versatility coupled with investment/value, to me Roth is our best candidate. He will play 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. He answers both of your questions above. Plays the run very well, can be disruptive, get after the passer, etc. Osi I think is a 4-3 DE. he comes off the field if we went to a 3 man line, because I don't think he can play 3-4 DE nor 3-4 OLB.
    My 4-3 DE's assuming we got Roth, would be Roth and Cunningham. Same guys at OLB if we switch to the 3-4. That is why I like Roth a lot. he and Cunninghame can stay on the field and allow the Pats to change up on the fly. Wright, Moore, Carter provide depth.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

    In Response to Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?:
    In Response to Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi? : I think the Pats best bet is to bring in Roth, not Osi. I like Osi, and possibly what he can bring, but if we are talking scheme versatility coupled with investment/value, to me Roth is our best candidate. He will play 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. He answers both of your questions above. Plays the run very well, can be disruptive, get after the passer, etc. Osi I think is a 4-3 DE. he comes off the field if we went to a 3 man line, because I don't think he can play 3-4 DE nor 3-4 OLB. My 4-3 DE's assuming we got Roth, would be Roth and Cunningham. Same guys at OLB if we switch to the 3-4. That is why I like Roth a lot. he and Cunninghame can stay on the field and allow the Pats to change up on the fly. Wright, Moore, Carter provide depth.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I agree, I think the guy has to be either Roth or Brock at this point. They offer the most flexibility to play elephant OLB or 43 DE. Both a 3 down type of players that can set the edge or rush the passer. Brock being older to me brings much more risk if you expect him to be a 2-3 down player so Roth makes the most sense to me. We'll have to see what BB wants to do though. He might be to in love with his guys, the ones he trained from basically ground zero (Moore, Nin, Fletcher, Murrell). He might not want to bring in a guy who won't be starting at ground zero and has the adapt his experience to BB's system
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

    In Response to Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?:
    In Response to Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi? : I agree, I think the guy has to be either Roth or Brock at this point. They offer the most flexibility to play elephant OLB or 43 DE. Both a 3 down type of players that can set the edge or rush the passer. Brock being older to me brings much more risk if you expect him to be a 2-3 down player so Roth makes the most sense to me. We'll have to see what BB wants to do though. He might be to in love with his guys, the ones he trained from basically ground zero (Moore, Nin, Fletcher, Murrell). He might not want to bring in a guy who won't be starting at ground zero and has the adapt his experience to BB's system
    Posted by PatsEng


    It's a good point, but I think Roth's learning curve is a heck of a lot smaller than Brock's. Much has been said on this board about his experience in Parcell's and Mangini's defense, working under Rob Ryan, which at one point worked for Bill. There has to be a lot of similarities in terms of what he was asked to do in Cleveland and what might be expected of him here. Question is, after the Solder signing, how much money do we have left?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

    In Response to Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?:
    In Response to Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi? : Hi Tex, The Pats HAVE to find a good DE or OLB. Neither the 4-3 nor 3-4 will work without that person. Osi could be that person but it looks like another Julius Peppers pipe dream. I think there are two questions here. 1. If they go 4-3 who are the DE's (and they need to be elite)? 2. If they stay 3-4 than who are the OLB's? If they don't find some edge presense than its just a Haynesworth for Warren straight swap with no improvement. NE can't depend on interior line sacks.
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron


         Hey Fantasy! Long time no hear! How've you been?

         The Giants may rue the day that they refused to accept less compensation than a first round pick for Osi. His contract squabble with them is mushrooming into a major, full blown distraction.

         It's likely that many of the Giants' vets are firmly behind Osi. Management is arguing the sanctity of a contract. Yet, the vets have just seen a couple of long-time starting veteran offensive linemen, center Shaun O"Hara and OG Rich Seubert, uncerimoniously cut in mid-contract from the team due to drop off in play caused by injuries. Now, the vets are seeing a guy in Osi who has clearly out-performed his contract...yet management will do nothing to reward him? 

         The latest Osi episode has him playing the "injury card"...saying that he has a sore knee that might require surgery. Whether or not this is a mere ruse to avoid fines for missing practice, it may have a detrimental effect on his trade value:  http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2011/08/04/2011-08-04_osi_umenyiora_threatens_to_have_knee_surgery_after_giants_mock_practice_excuse_a.html

         Over the weekend, the Patriots will decide whether to continue their quest for Osi, or to move on to "Plan B". Plan B would likely entail the signing of Logan Mankins to a long term contract extension, which would provide the team with some 2011 salary cap relief...and the signing of 3-4 DE Shaun Ellis, and/or DE/OLB Matt Roth.

         Though several teams are in the hunt for Roth's services, he has stated that he wants to play for a winning team: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/04/matt-roth-interest-is-heating-up/ This means that he'll probably accept less money, in order to play in New England. But, the Saints are another good team that is interested as well.

         Another guy that the Pats were interested in, DE Raheem Brock, has resigned with the Seattle Seahawks: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=capress-fbn_seahawks_brock-7700455    
     
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

         The Osi mess continues to drag on in Gotham. Umenyiora's agent met with Giants' management  yesterday, but nothing was accomplished. Osi seeks to have his contract amended to add more money. more guaranteed money, or to remove a year left on his contract...which would allow him to become an UFA at the end of this season. But, thus far, all the Giants have offered are some unreachable incentives:   http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/08/osi_umenyioras_agent_talks_to.html

         Osi's "sore left knee", which has "caused" him to miss practices, is being checked out by team doctors today: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/osi_sits_by_docs_CtyrELBrjF5e6diMVzVSyO  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

    In Response to Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?:
    In Response to Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi? :      Hey Fantasy! Long time no hear! How've you been?      The Giants may rue the day that they refused to accept less compensation than a first round pick for Osi. His contract squabble with them is mushrooming into a major, full blown distraction.      It's likely that many of the Giants' vets are firmly behind Osi. Management is arguing the sanctity of a contract. Yet, the vets have just seen a couple of long-time starting veteran offensive linemen, center Shaun O"Hara and OG Rich Seubert, uncerimoniously cut in mid-contract from the team due to drop off in play caused by injuries. Now, the vets are seeing a guy in Osi who has clearly out-performed his contract...yet management will do nothing to reward him?       The latest Osi episode has him playing the "injury card"...saying that he has a sore knee that might require surgery. Whether or not this is a mere ruse to avoid fines for missing practice, it may have a detrimental effect on his trade value:   http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2011/08/04/2011-08-04_osi_umenyiora_threatens_to_have_knee_surgery_after_giants_mock_practice_excuse_a.html      Over the weekend, the Patriots will decide whether to continue their quest for Osi, or to move on to "Plan B". Plan B would likely entail the signing of Logan Mankins to a long term contract extension, which would provide the team with some 2011 salary cap relief...and the signing of 3-4 DE Shaun Ellis, and/or DE/OLB Matt Roth.      Though several teams are in the hunt for Roth's services, he has stated that he wants to play for a winning team: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/04/matt-roth-interest-is-heating-up/  This means that he'll probably accept less money, in order to play in New England. But, the Saints are another good team that is interested as well.      Another guy that the Pats were interested in, DE Raheem Brock, has resigned with the Seattle Seahawks: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=capress-fbn_seahawks_brock-7700455      
    Posted by TexasPat3


    if we got ellis and roth cheap that couldnt hurt. but i see nothing is happening quickly or on the sly.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Are Patriots Laying in the Weeds for Osi?

    By default someone on this team is going to get some sacks, do to playing time and hopefully a decent inside push...who will it be? From what I've read Cunnningham has not looked anything but average, which is dissapointing. I don't want to put my football faith into a guy (Moore) that hasn't done a thing, but look good for two games in his 8 year career, but I think he's your best shot right now. Someone is going to have to do it; even an average player will get some numbers if his team gets a big lead and he is put out there enough (see Banta Cain).
     
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