Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

    Three things. 1. It's not even training camp and already the doomsayers are out in full force.2. Brady, BB and the team will be fine 3. If Brady is not fine (injury) I don't expect Belichick to go into "Suck For Bridgewater or Manziel" mode ; we will just see more great coaching (Cassel season) because s--king for a high draft pick defeats the whole purpose of competing.

     

    Oh and I hope Chandler breaks Luck in half.



    I just hope Chandler can find his way to the QB again. I know he was dinged up toward the end of the year, but he had one sack after week six last season.

    I think the Pats will be fine, they will be helped by the fact that they may be the only .500+ team in the AFC East. I am waiting to see on the WR and TE situation.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    The last time Brad Wells's team played the Patriots, they were completely humiliated 59-24, with Andrew Luck turning the ball over four times, including two interceptions returned for touchdowns.  He has plenty to worry about with his own team. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    GOD I HOPE SO! Please, say the PATRIOTS ARE IN TROUBLE!!!

    You mean like in 2001 when Drew Bledsoe went down for the year and in came some lanky nobody to take them to and win the Superbowl?

    You mean like in 2007 when "Spygate" rocked their world so bad that they went 16-0 and made it to yet another Superbowl?

    You mean like in 2008 when Tom was lost in the first game of the season and some guy who was so bad that he hadn't started a single football game since HIGH SCHOOL lead them to a 11-4 record the rest of the way?

    Yeah, I really hope they think they are in trouble this year, because if you haven't noticed, the New England Patriots take tragedies and use them to galvanize the team, to display laser-like focus, and to feed off of the adversity like no other professional sports organization. Afterall, what else could motivate the most successful franchise in the NFL over the last 13-years more than being told that "THEY ARE TOAST!"? Keep the nay-sayers comin' and we'll C-U in New Jersey on 2/2/2014! CAN'T WAIT!



    You know that in 2007, the lost the Super Bowl in what is considered one of the biggest upsets in NFL history, and in 2008 they did not make the playoffs...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

     

     

    GOD I HOPE SO! Please, say the PATRIOTS ARE IN TROUBLE!!!

    You mean like in 2001 when Drew Bledsoe went down for the year and in came some lanky nobody to take them to and win the Superbowl?

    You mean like in 2007 when "Spygate" rocked their world so bad that they went 16-0 and made it to yet another Superbowl?

    You mean like in 2008 when Tom was lost in the first game of the season and some guy who was so bad that he hadn't started a single football game since HIGH SCHOOL lead them to a 11-4 record the rest of the way?

    Yeah, I really hope they think they are in trouble this year, because if you haven't noticed, the New England Patriots take tragedies and use them to galvanize the team, to display laser-like focus, and to feed off of the adversity like no other professional sports organization. Afterall, what else could motivate the most successful franchise in the NFL over the last 13-years more than being told that "THEY ARE TOAST!"? Keep the nay-sayers comin' and we'll C-U in New Jersey on 2/2/2014! CAN'T WAIT!

     

     



    You know that in 2007, the lost the Super Bowl in what is considered one of the biggest upsets in NFL history, and in 2008 they did not make the playoffs...

     

     

     


    What you said here has absolutely nothing to do with the point.

    THE POINT AS  STATED ABOVE: "the New England Patriots take tragedies and use them to galvanize the team, to display laser-like focus, and to feed off of the adversity like no other professional sports organization."

    Yeah, I know they lost the Superbowl with the help of one of, if not THE most bizzarre play that any of us have ever seen. That has nothing to do with how the TEAM and organization responded to the Spygate, THANKS!

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    You know that in 2007, the lost the Super Bowl in what is considered one of the biggest upsets in NFL history, and in 2008 they did not make the playoffs...


    How can that game be considered one of the biggest upsets in NFL history when just four weeks earlier those same two teams played a hard fought back and forth game that was decided by 3 points?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    [QUOTE]You know that in 2007, the lost the Super Bowl in what is considered one of the biggest upsets in NFL history, and in 2008 they did not make the playoffs...



    How can that game be considered one of the biggest upsets in NFL history when just four weeks earlier those same two teams played a hard fought back and forth game that was decided by 3 points?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Patriots favored by 14 points was the highest point spread since Super Bowl III when people thought it was not a fair game between the AFL and NFL.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    The Patriots favored by 14 points was the highest point spread since Super Bowl III when people thought it was not a fair game between the AFL and NFL.

    Ah, the point spread. What was your opinion? Big upset or no?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    [QUOTE]The Patriots favored by 14 points was the highest point spread since Super Bowl III when people thought it was not a fair game between the AFL and NFL.


    Ah, the point spread. What was your opinion? Big upset or no?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it was a huge upset. Coughlin looked at the game the Giants lost versus the Patriots changed his game plan and the Patriots could not adjust. I think it was the second best coaching job I have seen in a Super only to the Patriots beating the Rams. To this day, I am still amazed that the Patriots were not able to adjust at half (at which point they were still in the lead) and win that game. 

    How and why the Giants won that game has been discussed to death on these boards, but you cannot argue that the Patriots should have won that game.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    I think it was a huge upset. Coughlin looked at the game the Giants lost versus the Patriots changed his game plan and the Patriots could not adjust. I think it was the second best coaching job I have seen in a Super only to the Patriots beating the Rams. To this day, I am still amazed that the Patriots were not able to adjust at half (at which point they were still in the lead) and win that game. 

    How and why the Giants won that game has been discussed to death on these boards, but you cannot argue that the Patriots should have won that game.



    Good analogy with the Rams super bowl and I agree it was an upset. I just disagree that it was one of the biggest upsets in super bowl history. The Giants knew they cound run with the Patriots just as the 2001 Patriots knew they could stop the Greatest Show on Turf based on their previous meeting. Credit the Giants for playing a great game and outplaying the almost greatest team of all time.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Inokea4coolaid. Show Inokea4coolaid's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    Some barriers early on, but not in deep trouble.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    All these media types (and posters) writing off the Patriot's passing game, are writing under the assumption Dobson and Boyce aren't going to contribute, both of them are similar in that they are physical, fight for the ball, are extraordinarily fast, athletic and were productive in college.

    Boyce is a compact, bowling ball sized receiver (5'11" 210 lb.) with uncanny speed running a 4.3 forty at the combine, he was also the 2nd strongest receiver after TJ Moe in the whole combine. They grade out players in 7 categories at the combine, he was a top performer in 5 of those categories, add to that his overall production in college and I project him to be star material if he keeps his head screwed on.  He has a reputation as "smart."

    Dobson is tall and rangy (6'3" 210), ran a legit 4.4 at the Pro Day, one scout had him clocked at 4.37 so he's real fast, was top ten in strength, top 15 vertical, broad jump and respectable 3 cone drill compared to all the other combine participants at WR.  He was productive at Marshall with maybe sub standard QB play, made some crazy highlight catches, proved he could fight for the ball but best of all he had a reputation as "smart."

    One or both of these guys are going to be a force in the NFL if they get a good foundation, learn the system and have an especially great QB throwing to them... does that sound like anyone you know?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    All these media types (and posters) writing off the Patriot's passing game, are writing under the assumption Dobson and Boyce aren't going to contribute, both of them are similar in that they are physical, fight for the ball, are extraordinarily fast, athletic and were productive in college.

    Boyce is a compact, bowling ball sized receiver (5'11" 210 lb.) with uncanny speed running a 4.3 forty at the combine, he was also the 2nd strongest receiver after TJ Moe in the whole combine. They grade out players in 7 categories at the combine, he was a top performer in 5 of those categories, add to that his overall production in college and I project him to be star material if he keeps his head screwed on.  He has a reputation as "smart."

    Dobson is tall and rangy (6'3" 210), ran a legit 4.4 at the Pro Day, one scout had him clocked at 4.37 so he's real fast, was top ten in strength, top 15 vertical, broad jump and respectable 3 cone drill compared to all the other combine participants at WR.  He was productive at Marshall with maybe sub standard QB play, made some crazy highlight catches, proved he could fight for the ball but best of all he had a reputation as "smart."

    One or both of these guys are going to be a force in the NFL if they get a good foundation, learn the system and have an especially great QB throwing to them... does that sound like anyone you know?



    I was always a fan of Boyce because he is versatile and he fights for the ball. That kid from Thompkins is similar, although not as accomplished stats-wise, maybe because a smidge slower and maybe not as strong physically. On mental toughness, he fits.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    All these media types (and posters) writing off the Patriot's passing game, are writing under the assumption Dobson and Boyce aren't going to contribute, both of them are similar in that they are physical, fight for the ball, are extraordinarily fast, athletic and were productive in college.

    Boyce is a compact, bowling ball sized receiver (5'11" 210 lb.) with uncanny speed running a 4.3 forty at the combine, he was also the 2nd strongest receiver after TJ Moe in the whole combine. They grade out players in 7 categories at the combine, he was a top performer in 5 of those categories, add to that his overall production in college and I project him to be star material if he keeps his head screwed on.  He has a reputation as "smart."

    Dobson is tall and rangy (6'3" 210), ran a legit 4.4 at the Pro Day, one scout had him clocked at 4.37 so he's real fast, was top ten in strength, top 15 vertical, broad jump and respectable 3 cone drill compared to all the other combine participants at WR.  He was productive at Marshall with maybe sub standard QB play, made some crazy highlight catches, proved he could fight for the ball but best of all he had a reputation as "smart."

    One or both of these guys are going to be a force in the NFL if they get a good foundation, learn the system and have an especially great QB throwing to them... does that sound like anyone you know?



    Go look at the scouting information and combine stats for Chad Jackson, Bradon Tate, Taylor Price and Bethel Johnson. After that look at their NFL stats. Synthesizing all that information should give you general idea why people are not expecting too much from these guys (especially their rookie years).

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    Love this kind of talk! Gets the PATS all fired up and ready to go!

    I WOULD LOVE ANOTHER "THEY HATE THEIR COACH" SEASON!!

    The Offense will hold their own and the D is poised to be much better than last year. I love being the under dog and the rest of the league is in trouble if you ask me.




    Undecided

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    [QUOTE]I think it was a huge upset. Coughlin looked at the game the Giants lost versus the Patriots changed his game plan and the Patriots could not adjust. I think it was the second best coaching job I have seen in a Super only to the Patriots beating the Rams. To this day, I am still amazed that the Patriots were not able to adjust at half (at which point they were still in the lead) and win that game. 

     

    How and why the Giants won that game has been discussed to death on these boards, but you cannot argue that the Patriots should have won that game.



    Good analogy with the Rams super bowl and I agree it was an upset. I just disagree that it was one of the biggest upsets in super bowl history. The Giants knew they cound run with the Patriots just as the 2001 Patriots knew they could stop the Greatest Show on Turf based on their previous meeting. Credit the Giants for playing a great game and outplaying the almost greatest team of all time.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The thing is that personally, I do not actually think that Super Bowl XLII was there worst playoff performance. I the playoff loss to the Jets would actually win that award. The number one offense in the NFL started that game with Int, FG, Punt, Punt, Downs (on the Chung fake punt), End-of-half, Punt, Punt. Three points on their first 8 drives before the finally found the end zone with :15 left in the third. The next drive was the infamous "Drive to Nowhere". 14 plays, 48 yards, 7:45 off the clock (while down 10 points) ending with a run for zero yards, a -3 sack and two incomplete passes. I feel sick just from looking up the actually numbers again. To me that was the Patriots low-point since the last Super Bowl victory.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    Go look at the scouting information and combine stats for Chad Jackson, Bradon Tate, Taylor Price and Bethel Johnson. After that look at their NFL stats. Synthesizing all that information should give you general idea why people are not expecting too much from these guys (especially their rookie years).

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you always stereotype and lump everyone in together?  

    Chad Jackson had every attribute you'd want except smarts.  Brandon Tate got injured and never really recovered. Taylor Price was a project and somewhat of a long shot from the beginning, nobody had him pegged as "can't miss." Bethel Johnson's only redeeming quality was "fast."

    Both Boyce and Dobson are more complete players, I went out of my way to point out at the end of my summation for both that they are considered smart, something sorely missing from the group above... amongst other things.  The point being, even though you can't rely on rookies, the notion that neither of these guys will contribute is what all these negative rants are assuming and is highly unlikely.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

     

     Wozzy said it a few days ago.  As long as BB is here the Pats have a great chance.  As far as the many new players go, let's wait until camp starts to begin with our predictions.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    All that has happened this off season means that Tom Brady will have to save them again, it's been the same story really since 04. Here we are ten years later and unless the "rebuilt" defense improves nothing will have changed. Brady will make some third string tight end famous...a no name, washed up, forgotten receiver a household name, but the playoffs will come and our defense will be exposed again. Then everyone will just blame Brady.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    Well if my math is correct, and they play anywhere's near what they have over the last five years, the Patriots will be just fine! 12-4, 13-3 or a pedestrian 11-5 in any case they win the AFC east! Losing Gronk for the beginning of the season will make them a better team,provided Hooman,Fells, Ballard,Ford,Batholomew and Sudfield can handle the load until he returns. WR is a little dicey once you get past Danny Amendola,but there are some interesting options. Boyce is a true speedster, Dobson can go up and get them in traffic with the best of them, Mike Jenkins is Brandon Lloyd with better yac, Hawkins is a versatile WR who can play the slot and he might be a better option than Deion was last year, and there is Aiken,Thompkins and Harrison as outside options. Their RB's have been rated as a top five RB group and I personally think they have a guy that no one knows about in George Winn who might grab some PT. However I'm a homer when it comes to ranking the Patriots so you might want to discount my opinion.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    All that has happened this off season means that Tom Brady will have to save them again, it's been the same story really since 04. Here we are ten years later and unless the "rebuilt" defense improves nothing will have changed. Brady will make some third string tight end famous...a no name, washed up, forgotten receiver a household name, but the playoffs will come and our defense will be exposed again. Then everyone will just blame Brady.

     



         I'm not so sure that "our defense will be exposed again", this year. One never knows in the NFL. If the key players on the Pats' "D" stay healthy, this year could be different. I expect marked improvement from Dont'a Hightower, Chander Jones, and the secondary, in general. Having Aqib Talib from the get-go should help. Lots of quality depth on the "D" side of the ball. If Ras-I Dowling can ever avoid pulling a hammie each morning while getting out of bed, the Pats' "D" could become formidable once more.  Here's a pretty good article on the Pats' "D": http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/patriots/content/20130722-plenty-of-questions-regarding-defense.ece

         With Gronk starting the year on the PUP list, the offense will be challenged early...and the "D" must step up. Sitting Gronk out is the right move. BB should not let him anywhere near the field until he's 100%.   

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??


    Hopefully, Gronk, Edelwoman, and Ballard on the PUP is merely pre-cautionary measures.

    If not, then the Patriots are in a slightly deeper hole at the beginning of the season.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    By stampede's definition of "toast", since 2005, the Pats were "toast" in 2008 and 2009, so this isn't anything new. That said, the Pats have been knocking at the door in 2005-2007 and 2010-2012. Since 2005, the Pats have been to 2 SBs, 2 additional AFCCGs, won their division in 7 of the last 8 years, had a 16-0 regular season, and will likley be the only 11-5 team, ever,  to miss the playoffs under the current playoff format. (The 1985 Broncos missed the playoffs but at the time, only 5 teams from each conference made the postseason. They lost to the Pats on tiebreakers.)

    Many teams, including the Jets, would kill for that kind of "futility".

    The 2 keys to this team are: 

    DEFENSE - there's still no pass rush (I go by PFF's pressure %)

    Their ability to match up against quality opponents. The 2008 and 2009 teams were woeful against good teams (and had sucky defenses). Measuring stick opponents include:

    09/29/13 - @Atlanta

    10/06/13 - @Cincinnati

    10/13/13 - New Orleans (Drew Brees has never lost to the Pats. 3-0 since 2002.)

    11/24/13 - Denver

    12/01/13 - @Houston

    12/22/13 - @Baltimore

    I'm not sold on any of their divisional opponents and Pittsburgh's D is a shell of what it once was. Still, if they go worse than 2-4, in the games noted, then they would be toast.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    Ballard still on PUP list? Hope he will not be another Shiancoe: a bust after long, long hiatus in rehab.


    Living well is the best revenge.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Are the 2013 Patriots in Deep Trouble??

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

    By stampede's definition of "toast", since 2005, the Pats were "toast" in 2008 and 2009, so this isn't anything new. That said, the Pats have been knocking at the door in 2005-2007 and 2010-2012. Since 2005, the Pats have been to 2 SBs, 2 additional AFCCGs, won their division in 7 of the last 8 years, had a 16-0 regular season, and will likley be the only 11-5 team, ever,  to miss the playoffs under the current playoff format. (The 1985 Broncos missed the playoffs but at the time, only 5 teams from each conference made the postseason. They lost to the Pats on tiebreakers.)

    Many teams, including the Jets, would kill for that kind of "futility".

    The 2 keys to this team are: 

    DEFENSE - there's still no pass rush (I go by PFF's pressure %)

    Their ability to match up against quality opponents. The 2008 and 2009 teams were woeful against good teams (and had sucky defenses). Measuring stick opponents include:

    09/29/13 - @Atlanta

    10/06/13 - @Cincinnati

    10/13/13 - New Orleans (Drew Brees has never lost to the Pats. 3-0 since 2002.)

    11/24/13 - Denver

    12/01/13 - @Houston

    12/22/13 - @Baltimore

    I'm not sold on any of their divisional opponents and Pittsburgh's D is a shell of what it once was. Still, if they go worse than 2-4, in the games noted, then they would be toast. 

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...



    RESPONSE: Good to hear from the wily ol' sage from Havana! Hope you had a bumper  tobacco crop, and that the Castro government let's you keep enough so that you can afford to ship me a box of cigars (on the qt, of course!!)! LOL!!!

          As for you post above, if the Pats go 2-4 against your "big six", the Pats would, and should, be toast...and deservedly so. 

     

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