Are the Packers racist

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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]Every time I'm in Boston I'm just amazed at how all the downtown offices and all the college classrooms are just filled to the brim with Black people.  You don't see a single White person in school or in a job any more . . . 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I know you are being sarcastic but in the schools I went to and in the jobs I have worked the % of black Americans to white Americans is actually the same or slightly higher then the % of black Americans to white Americans living in NE as a whole. I'm really am getting tired of having to say black or white or purple or yellow or neon pink. Aren't we all Americans yet? I'm tired of getting of one race or another getting a hand up. Shouldn't it be based on where you live not based on your skin? Doesn't a white or Asian inner city kids have the same disadvantages in education as black and Hispanic kids? Those in disadvantage areas should all receive the same help regardless of skin color. If one race or another is a higher % in those areas so be it but I firmly believe help should given to those based on need not based on race.

    I have plenty of blacks friends who worked their butts off much like I have to get where we are. They take the Cosby approach to their own race. They blame the culture and community for keeping their race down not perceived bias. As they see it and have told me, how are they suppose to overcome stereotypes when they turn on the news and continually hear stories of young inner city kids playing into those stereotypes.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : I know you are being sarcastic but in the schools I went to and in the jobs I have worked the % of black Americans to white Americans is actually the same or slightly higher then the % of black Americans to white Americans living in NE as a whole. I'm really am getting tired of having to say black or white or purple or yellow or neon pink. Aren't we all Americans yet? I'm tired of getting of one race or another getting a hand up. Shouldn't it be based on where you live not based on your skin? Doesn't a white or Asian inner city kids have the same disadvantages in education as black and Hispanic kids? Those in disadvantage areas should all receive the same help regardless of skin color. If one race or another is a higher % in those areas so be it but I firmly believe help should given to those based on need not based on race. I have plenty of blacks friends who worked their butts off much like I have to get where we are. They take the Cosby approach to their own race. They blame the culture and community for keeping their race down not perceived bias. As they see it and have told me, how are they suppose to overcome stereotypes when they turn on the news and continually hear stories of young inner city kids playing into those stereotypes.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I agree with the whole american thing, just remove those check box's in a land thats supposed to be all accepting it would be a small step. If you were born here your American, not whatever-american.

     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    I wonder if people can guess what race I am, it seems like you're assuming I;m black, hang3xc. 
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    Racism is alive and well in America today(unfortunatley).  And it goes both ways.  However, the only type we really hear about from the media is white people being racist against black people.  I lived in Baltimore for 2 years and the first Apt. I lived in there I actually had to move out after being there only one night.  I had people vandalizing my car, peeking through my living room windows after dark, sitting on my porch refusing to move to let me in the door, etc.  When I called the cops it was a BLACK cop who told me they were harrassing me because I am white and if I didn't move out immediately the next morning, they were going to hurt my family and me. 

    I also have a friend in Baltimore who has a degree in in Criminal Justice and couldn't get a job in Baltimore because he was told by the Police Chief (and I quote) "You are more than qualified, but I can't hire you because I have to meet my quotas of black and hispanic police officers." 

    I view quotas like Unions....They WERE at one time a really good idea to even the playing field, but have grown into a GIANT, fire breathing monster that is out of control and ruining our country(among other things). 
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    I'm assuming that that's a jab towards Obama? Not really and Obama fan. I hate to have to defend him, but Obama's credential compared to Bush makes him OVER-qualified. Compared to Palin, Perry and Cain, it's beneath him.

    Thats just plain silly. Being a gov of a state is more qualification then being a community organizer. At least where I went to school. you dont get executive experience being a community organizer.
     
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    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]Racism is alive and well in America today(unfortunately).  And it goes both ways.  However, the only type we really hear about from the media is white people being racist against black people.  I lived in Baltimore for 2 years and the first Apt. I lived in there I actually had to move out after being there only one night.  I had people vandalizing my car, peeking through my living room windows after dark, sitting on my porch refusing to move to let me in the door, etc.  When I called the cops it was a BLACK cop who told me they were harassing me because I am white and if I didn't move out immediately the next morning, they were going to hurt my family and me.  I also have a friend in Baltimore who has a degree in in Criminal Justice and couldn't get a job in Baltimore because he was told by the Police Chief (and I quote) "You are more than qualified, but I can't hire you because I have to meet my quotas of black and hispanic police officers."  I view quotas like Unions....They WERE at one time a really good idea to even the playing field, but have grown into a GIANT, fire breathing monster that is out of control and ruining our country(among other things). 
    Posted by theshinez[/QUOTE]

    I don't think most of you understand the point that's being stated in this forum. Yes, everyone is aware that there is racism from all races, BUT it's usually viewed more negatively coming from Caucasian because they're the majority. They're the race in power, no matter what a black person does in America he can't ever oppress a white person. That's why racism is more frowned upon coming from white person than it is coming from a black person. 

    Now, in your case, you moved into a sh*t neighborhood, dude. What did you expect? Nice, friend, hospitable people? You met the scum of the scum at that point in time and you saw the worst people that blacks had to offer. I, however, seriously doubt that your friend was told he couldn't get a job because they wanted to fill quotas. That, my friend, is discrimination and your friend could be swimming in millions if he took it to court. Maybe they wanted more blacks and hispanics on the force because Baltimore is a highly African American populated city (63%), but I doubt they'd be so out front and out in the open about it. Whomever said that needs to be fired or needs to be taught how use the art of nuances. 

     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]I'm assuming that that's a jab towards Obama? Not really and Obama fan. I hate to have to defend him, but Obama's credential compared to Bush makes him OVER-qualified. Compared to Palin, Perry and Cain, it's beneath him. Thats just plain silly. Being a gov of a start is more qualification then being a community organizer. At least where I went to school. you dont get executive experience being a community organizer.
    Posted by Philskiw1[/QUOTE]

    Im sorry, but being the Governor of Texas isn't saying much. It really, really isn't. Now, Sarah Palin was the Governor of Alaska, another state that I look down on, for the same amount of time that Obama was a senator for Illinois. I won't bring up his 8 years on the Illinois senate because we're talking about being in an important seat in Government. Herman Cain is an idiot and has never held a position in the U.S. government. I hate having to defend Obama, but I'd take him over what the Repubs have lined up. If Huntsman wins the nomination, I'd vote for him. 

    I won't vote for the Elitist (Romney), the nutjob (Perry), the sexual predator (Cain), the bigot (Santorum), the conspiracy theorist (Paul) or the bible thumping zealot (Bachmann)
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE] I have plenty of blacks friends who worked their butts off much like I have to get where we are. They take the Cosby approach to their own race. They blame the culture and community for keeping their race down not perceived bias. As they see it and have told me, how are they suppose to overcome stereotypes when they turn on the news and continually hear stories of young inner city kids playing into those stereotypes.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    One of the problems is that New England has never integrated blacks well.  You'd see a different picture if you lived in Atlanta. Yeah, there are inner city problems there, too, but there's also a thriving middle class Black community.  Same in Chicago--some pretty tough neighborhoods on the South and West sides--but also a lot of middle class Blacks living pretty much just like middle class Whites.  

    People bring up quotas a lot, but really they are not very common in the private sector and have little impact outside a few public sector professions.  If you look at employment statistics, it's hard to make any kind of case that Blacks are somehow advantaged over Whites in the workplace. Quite the opposite really. In an ideal world, there would be nothing like a quota or other affirmative action program--or if there were those programs, they would be based on need rather than race--but the reason race-based programs exist is because this isn't an ideal world and race has been and to some degree continues to be an issue in the US.  The history of systematic discrimination against Blacks is long, real, and harmful to Blacks. Yes, overt discrimination is much rarer today than it was forty years ago, but racist attitudes, assumptions, and stereotypes are hardly gone and the impact of hundreds of years of past discrimination has not been fully erased.  

    Personally, I've never found my being White to be a disadvantage.  Nor have I ever felt that affirmative action programs have done anything to restrict my own prospects in life. If they've helped a few Blacks do better, then I'm all for them because as far as I have experienced they have at most a minimal impact on Whites. 

    One other thing: I don't quite get why people get all worked up about this race thing. It seems to me like an obvious fact that Blacks have been disadvantaged by history in the US and that trying to correct the historical problems is a good thing. I have to say, the way people get so worked up about something that in some ways seems so benign, makes me think that racism really is stronger now than we all like to say and that there's a lot of hatred still directed toward blacks.  I find the anger of so many over something that honestly is so harmless to Whites disturbing.  It makes me think that America is way behind where it should be when it comes to acceptance of non-White races. 

     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : I don't think most of you understand the point that's being stated in this forum. Yes, everyone is aware that there is racism from all races, BUT it's usually viewed more negatively coming from Caucasian because they're the majority. They're the race in power, no matter what a black person does in America he can't ever oppress a white person. That's why racism is more frowned upon coming from white person than it is coming from a black person.  Now, in your case, you moved into a sh*t neighborhood, dude. What did you expect? Nice, friend, hospitable people? You met the scum of the scum at that point in time and you saw the worst people that blacks had to offer. I, however, seriously doubt that your friend was told he couldn't get a job because they wanted to fill quotas. That, my friend, is discrimination and your friend could be swimming in millions if he took it to court. Maybe they wanted more blacks and hispanics on the force because Baltimore is a highly African American populated city (63%), but I doubt they'd be so out front and out in the open about it. Whomever said that needs to be fired or needs to be taught how use the art of nuances. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    Wow 49 really? Because of skin color one race can't be oppressive to another? When I was growing up and in college I couldn't afford much and had to live in sh*t areas I had no choice but because of my skin color I shouldn't be allowed to?

    That's pretty bad.

    You know when I lived in Roxbury I helped out the community and my neighbors generally loved me, with the exception of the local thugs. One day they pushed it to far knocked me around a bit and threw a rock through my window telling me "crack @ss go back home to where you belong". Strangely enough my drug dealing neighbor was one of the few that came to help me. He told me I was a good kid and shouldn't have to deal with this much hate, it wasn't fair and told me not to worry about it he'd take care of it. Well those kids never came within 50' from me from that day on but they would follow me yelling all sorts of stuff whenever they saw me.

    That's not right 49 where I should have to worry about safety because I couldn't afford better and because of the color of my skin. And it's equally not as right to dismiss it as you should have lived in a better area or because I'm a certain color it can't happen to me. You claim white people can't see it from black peoples side well I'm not sure what race you are but you can't seem to see it from a white guys side. Just one question did you grow up in a poorer area or live in one. I did and I can tell you for a fact white kids can be oppressed and made fearful from black kids just simply because they are white. Heck when I was a kid I even got yelled at by a black parent because I was white and they perceived I was taking something away from their kid or that I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. It happens all the time in inner city schools.

    I hate to tell you but it's tough for a white guy to fill discrimination simply because if there is a quota then it's by law which means it's not discrimination if it's part of the law. It happens on both sides that the best person for the job doesn't always get the job and that has to change on both sides
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    PatsEng,

    As you point out, even in a tough (blighted?) Black neighborhood like Roxbury, your neighbors generally liked you and came to your defense.  The problem is that too many seem to define all Blacks based on the actions of a few thugs. It's as if all Whites were defined based on the actions of Whitey Bulger or John Wayne Gacy. It seems like there's a tendency to generalize from a few Blacks to all Blacks.  A lot of that, I think, occurs because segregation (particularly in a city like Boston) is still strong and a lot of Whites have only limited contact with Blacks.  So it's easy to stereotype based on what you see on the news.  But those "thugs" you see on TV are only part of the Black community.  If you lived in a more integrated area with more middle class Blacks, you'd see a very different picture.  Whites (especially in places like Boston) really need to see more of the good side of Black communities.  Unfortunately, ordinary Black people going to work every day don't make compelling TV.  Smile


     
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    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : One of the problems is that New England has never integrated blacks well.  You'd see a different picture if you lived in Atlanta. Yeah, there are inner city problems there, too, but there's also a thriving middle class Black community.  Same in Chicago--some pretty tough neighborhoods on the South and West sides--but also a lot of middle class Blacks living pretty much just like middle class Whites.   People bring up quotas a lot, but really they are not very common in the private sector and have little impact outside a few public sector professions.  If you look at employment statistics, it's hard to make any kind of case that Blacks are somehow advantaged over Whites in the workplace. Quite the opposite really. In an ideal world, there would be nothing like a quota or other affirmative action program--or if there were those programs, they would be based on need rather than race--but the reason race-based programs exist is because this isn't an ideal world and race has been and to some degree continues to be an issue in the US.  The history of systematic discrimination against Blacks is long, real, and harmful to Blacks. Yes, overt discrimination is much rarer today than it was forty years ago, but racist attitudes, assumptions, and stereotypes are hardly gone and the impact of hundreds of years of past discrimination has not been fully erased.   Personally, I've never found my being White to be a disadvantage.  Nor have I ever felt that affirmative action programs have done anything to restrict my own prospects in life. If they've helped a few Blacks do better, then I'm all for them because as far as I have experienced they have at most a minimal impact on Whites.  One other thing: I don't quite get why people get all worked up about this race thing. It seems to me like an obvious fact that Blacks have been disadvantaged by history in the US and that trying to correct the historical problems is a good thing. I have to say, the way people get so worked up about something that in some ways seems so benign, makes me think that racism really is stronger now than we all like to say and that there's a lot of hatred still directed toward blacks.  I find the anger of so many over something that honestly is so harmless to Whites disturbing.  It makes me think that America is way behind where it should be when it comes to acceptance of non-White races. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I agree in the private sector it is much less previlent then in the public sector and the percentage is minor at best but it's the refusal of some to acknowledge that things have greatly improved to the point where affirmative actions might actually be hindering the progress of integration that's annoying to say the least.

    I think the whole race issue is a hot topic and why people get so worked up over it is because it's going to far. We are at a turning point where my generation was born in the late 70's early 80's. As far as I know my family has never owned slaves and has never oppressed anyone yet I grew up in a poorer area and I was treated as if I did. In my mind and most my age we personally did nothing wrong and yet we are paying for what someone in the past did just because they are the same color. It's like someone kicking you in the nuts repeatedly because another kid from a different town with the same name beat them up. I don't like having to defend myself just because I am white because neither I nor my family have ever done any wrong as far as I know. I grew up with the same disadvantages as many of the black kids in my neighborhood yet I didn't get any help or assistance with scores or getting into college so to me it always seemed like I was being punished just for being white which I never found right. That's where I think a huge disconnect is happening is my generation wasn't there in the 50's, 60's, or 70's. We didn't grow up with any perceived racism other then what was dealt to use in backlash from the black parents who grew up in the 50's and 60's and what they taught their kids. Eventually it will even out but for someone like 49 to close their eyes and can't imagine that the door swung to far the other way or that maybe we deserve it for something that was completely out of my control gets my blood boiling
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    Being the Gov of Texas and Alaska isnt that much? I guess being the Gov of Mass is. I think having to be responsible for the jobs of thousands as opposed to maybe having a secretary and no budget is that much, for the job position anyway.
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]PatsEng, As you point out, even in a tough (blighted?) Black neighborhood like Roxbury, your neighbors generally liked you and came to your defense.  The problem is that too many seem to define all Blacks based on the actions of a few thugs. It's as if all Whites were defined based on the actions of Whitey Bulger or John Wayne Gacy. It seems like there's a tendency to generalize from a few Blacks to all Blacks.  A lot of that, I think, occurs because segregation (particularly in a city like Boston) is still strong and a lot of Whites have only limited contact with Blacks.  So it's easy to stereotype based on what you see on the news.  But those "thugs" you see on TV are only part of the Black community.  If you lived in a more integrated area with more middle class Blacks, you'd see a very different picture.  Whites (especially in places like Boston) really need to see more of the good side of Black communities.  Unfortunately, ordinary Black people going to work every day don't make compelling TV.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I agree but as my black friends have said it's hard to overcome stereotypes when the stereotypes are plastered on the news. They take the Cosby approach and so do I. If the black community wants to change the stereotype then they have to work hard and change it themselves. They have to give these young black kids role models to look up to, they have to clean up their neighborhoods, they have to stop idealizing the gangsters and rappers as hero's (heck even a lot of the gangster rappers in the 90's have started speaking out about it now that they have kids and are scared for their kids safety). Stereotypes can be broken if the communities want to but those who can change it are to afraid to speak up and make a difference. And, from what I've seen some parents don't take enough responsibility and let the streets teach their kids. Cosby was right that if more black fathers took responsibility for their kids instead of leaving them in broken homes then things would get better. Unfortunately the trend appears that there are more fatherless black children now a days then even 10 years ago. The values that were instilled into me and my friends are slowly being replaced by actors on tv and rappers on ipods. That needs to change and perceptions need to be altered before any real progress can be made
     
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    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : I agree in the private sector it is much less previlent then in the public sector and the percentage is minor at best but it's the refusal of some to acknowledge that things have greatly improved to the point where affirmative actions might actually be hindering the progress of integration that's annoying to say the least. I think the whole race issue is a hot topic and why people get so worked up over it is because it's going to far. We are at a turning point where my generation was born in the late 70's early 80's. As far as I know my family has never owned slaves and has never oppressed anyone yet I grew up in a poorer area and I was treated as if I did. In my mind and most my age we personally did nothing wrong and yet we are paying for what someone in the past did just because they are the same color. It's like someone kicking you in the nuts repeatedly because another kid from a different town with the same name beat them up. I don't like having to defend myself just because I am white because neither I nor my family have ever done any wrong as far as I know. I grew up with the same disadvantages as many of the black kids in my neighborhood yet I didn't get any help or assistance with scores or getting into college so to me it always seemed like I was being punished just for being white which I never found right. That's where I think a huge disconnect is happening is my generation wasn't there in the 50's, 60's, or 70's. We didn't grow up with any perceived racism other then what was dealt to use in backlash from the black parents who grew up in the 50's and 60's and what they taught their kids. Eventually it will even out but for someone like 49 to close their eyes and can't imagine that the door swung to far the other way or that maybe we deserve it for something that was completely out of my control gets my blood boiling
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    That's fair, and I can see how it is annoying to poor Whites (and therefore disadvantaged Whites, because we all know that opportunities do correspond with wealth more than anything else) that Blacks seem to get more help.  But in reality, poor Blacks still face even more obstacles than poor Whites--largely because stereotypes about poor Blacks being thugs, unintelligent, irresponsible, etc., abound.  Poor Blacks have all the same disadvantages that you as a poor White had, but also have to face the racist stereotypes (which still exist, even if overt and blatant discrimination no longer occurs like it did in the 60s and 70s when I was young.)  On the other hand, the affirmative action programs don't actually provide Blacks with all that much help--and more and more these types of programs are need-based rather than race-based anyway.  And if you look at the results, Whites still do better than Blacks, even when the statistics are normalized for income.   

    The real problem, I think, is that the US has never been good with dealing with people who are clearly different.  Yes, it's a "melting pot" that accepts immigrants and people of different backgrounds, but it doesn't accept them very well until they "melt"--i.e., until they look and act like every other American.  For Blacks, their skin color limits their ability to "melt" in and so they continue to be viewed as "different" and not really part of the American mainstream.  I moved to Canada a year and a half ago and have witnessed a very different approach to diversity.  Here, it's a "mosaic" rather than a "melting pot."  People are accepted into the community even as they preserve their differences. There's no need to "melt."  That has it's own issues, I guess, but in some ways it seems like people get along a bit better.  If nothing else, my workplace is far more diverse than it was in the States . . .  at the highest levels we have Indians, Chinese, Blacks, Arabs, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Seikhs, Christians, etc.  It's very mixed . . . and people get along.  Race and religion just isn't that big a deal.  Now that I see how well it works, I keep wondering: Why isn't it like that in the US?

     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : Wow 49 really? Because of skin color one race can't be oppressive to another? When I was growing up and in college I couldn't afford much and had to live in sh*t areas I had no choice but because of my skin color I shouldn't be allowed to? That's pretty bad. You know when I lived in Roxbury I helped out the community and my neighbors generally loved me, with the exception of the local thugs. One day they pushed it to far knocked me around a bit and threw a rock through my window telling me "crack @ss go back home to where you belong". Strangely enough my drug dealing neighbor was one of the few that came to help me. He told me I was a good kid and shouldn't have to deal with this much hate, it wasn't fair and told me not to worry about it he'd take care of it. Well those kids never came within 50' from me from that day on but they would follow me yelling all sorts of stuff whenever they saw me. That's not right 49 where I should have to worry about safety because I couldn't afford better and because of the color of my skin. And it's equally not as right to dismiss it as you should have lived in a better area or because I'm a certain color it can't happen to me. You claim white people can't see it from black peoples side well I'm not sure what race you are but you can't seem to see it from a white guys side. Just one question did you grow up in a poorer area or live in one. I did and I can tell you for a fact white kids can be oppressed and made fearful from black kids just simply because they are white. Heck when I was a kid I even got yelled at by a black parent because I was white and they perceived I was taking something away from their kid or that I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. It happens all the time in inner city schools. I hate to tell you but it's tough for a white guy to fill discrimination simply because if there is a quota then it's by law which means it's not discrimination if it's part of the law. It happens on both sides that the best person for the job doesn't always get the job and that has to change on both sides
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Technically I said that what that gentleman suffered was the worst of what the black community had to offer. I am fully aware that blacks can be racist, I've suffered racism from all races (Black, white, Asian, Indians and Hispanics). I know how terrible people can be, but what I meant by African Americans can't oppress caucasian is that it's a Caucasian nation. Yes, ghetto black people (equivalent of trailer trash) are terrible, but I still don't see how they can keep you from being anything in life. Many on these boards just sound like overprivileged kids who are mad that they have to share. Really now, someone said that quotas are keeping white kids out of college even though nearly 8/9 of the kids in college are caucasians. Someone also said, I pray they were joking, that the fact that 22 percent of the coaches in the NFL were black that it meant that blacks are over-represented. Mind you, 65% of NFL players are black. Come on, reading these comments, can you not see why Affirmative Action is still in place? Can you not see why I say that an African American can't oppress a caucasian? We have people who think that 1/9 of colleges being minorities, not even black, is too much. We have people who think that 2/10 of all NFL coaches being black is too much. Come on, how can you expect me to see things in the same light as some of these people? 

    You, I can respect, we grew up similarly. I grew up poor as sh*t too in a neighborhood mixed with Italians, Polish, Blacks, Hispanics and Indians (East Indians, not Natives), we all got along fairly well. You could hear the racism walking around the wrong block though, but it never bothered me. I always kept a diverse group of friends so I know how to relate to other cultures. I might have misspoken when I said a black person can't oppress a white person, what I meant is that a black person can't keep a white person from moving up in socio-economic class status like some of the, I will assume, caucasians on the board would if they were in positions of powers. 

    I'll hold my race to myself, but no, I'm not of caucasian descent. =) 
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : I agree but as my black friends have said it's hard to overcome stereotypes when the stereotypes are plastered on the news. They take the Cosby approach and so do I. If the black community wants to change the stereotype then they have to work hard and change it themselves. They have to give these young black kids role models to look up to, they have to clean up their neighborhoods, they have to stop idealizing the gangsters and rappers as hero's (heck even a lot of the gangster rappers in the 90's have started speaking out about it now that they have kids and are scared for their kids safety). Stereotypes can be broken if the communities want to but those who can change it are to afraid to speak up and make a difference. And, from what I've seen some parents don't take enough responsibility and let the streets teach their kids. Cosby was right that if more black fathers took responsibility for their kids instead of leaving them in broken homes then things would get better. Unfortunately the trend appears that there are more fatherless black children now a days then even 10 years ago. The values that were instilled into me and my friends are slowly being replaced by actors on tv and rappers on ipods. That needs to change and perceptions need to be altered before any real progress can be made
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    The problem, though, is that Blacks living normal middle class lives, going to work every day and raising kids, can only do so much to change the world.  They're no different than you and I.  We're too busy doing what we need to do to try to solve all of Roxbury's problems.  That actually shows exactly why Blacks do continue to suffer from stereotypes: even when they don't match the stereotypes they are labeled with them and also held responsible for changing them!  That's a pretty big burden.  It's as if you were Italian and were held responsible for changing the behaviour of the Mafia . . . or else stuck with the stereotype of being a criminal.  It's sort of a no-win situation. 

    (And if you were Italian, you'd at least have the advantage of others not instantly knowing you were Italian by sight alone . . . if you're Black, it's pretty obvious that you're Black right from the start . . .)
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : Technically I said that what that gentleman suffered was the worst of what the black community had to offer. I am fully aware that blacks can be racist, I've suffered racism from all races (Black, white, Asian, Indians and Hispanics). I know how terrible people can be, but what I meant by African Americans can't oppress caucasian is that it's a Caucasian nation. Yes, ghetto black people (equivalent of trailer trash) are terrible, but I still don't see how they can keep you from being anything in life. Many on these boards just sound like overprivileged kids who are mad that they have to share. Really now, someone said that quotas are keeping white kids out of college even though nearly 8/9 of the kids in college are caucasians. Someone also said, I pray they were joking, that the fact that 22 percent of the coaches in the NFL were black that it meant that blacks are over-represented. Mind you, 65% of NFL players are black. Come on, reading these comments, can you not see why Affirmative Action is still in place? Can you not see why I say that an African American can't oppress a caucasian? We have people who think that 1/9 of colleges being minorities, not even black, is too much. We have people who think that 2/10 of all NFL coaches being black is too much. Come on, how can you expect me to see things in the same light as some of these people?  You, I can respect, we grew up similarly. I grew up poor as sh*t too in a neighborhood mixed with Italians, Polish, Blacks, Hispanics and Indians (East Indians, not Natives), we all got along fairly well. You could hear the racism walking around the wrong neighborhood though, but it never bother me. I always kept a diverse group of friends so I know how to relate to other cultures. I might have misspoken when I said a black person can't oppress a white person, what I meant is that a black person can't keep a white person from moving up in socio-economic class status like some of the, I will assume, caucasians on the board would if they were in positions of powers.  I'll hold my race to myself, but no, I'm not of caucasian descent. =) 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    Ok that's fair enough. But, as far as the college goes when a vast majority of citizens in the country are of white ancestry then I would expect that they would have a high percentage in college as well.

    I don't think it's the white race that's keeping black kids out of college I actually think it's the black race itself. To hear me out on this is that many of my black friends went to college because the community I grew up it pushed hard for education and to have us make something of ourselves. I remember an old lady who would give us candy if we got A's on our report cards. It's all community and family driven whether a kid gets to college our not now a days. Not based on skin color.

    Even my black friends who go back to our old neighborhood say how much it's changed and they don't think they would have made it out if they grew up in the same conditions as what's happened to where I grew up. There are plenty of other cultures that have risen above cultural stereotypes and have done well for themselves. Percentage wise Muslim, Indians, Asian, and Africans (legal immigrants either just immigrated or 1st gen Americans) have all excelled and have high showings in the work place and schools compared to population percentage. So what is keeping multi-generation blacks and Hispanics behind? I don't think it's racism anymore, I think it's this us verses them and they are oppressing us mentality that some of them carry. It's funny the ones I work with who have become success have told me they never thought anyone was out to get them, that it was always up to them as far as they wanted to go. I'm sure at points they had to work harder to overcome stereotypes but they never complained and did what they needed to succeed. To me is all distills down to the community, culture, and family. Those with a strong up bringing succeed and those who are taught to blame others and see oppression and faults when there really might not be don't. I find that incredible sad and imo if there was less focus on race and racism in general and more focus on how any culture or race can improve itself from within that racism would eventually be reduced to the part where it's meaningless. But, allowing perception and looking for racism as a crutch only serves to strengthen the stereotypes further
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : The problem, though, is that Blacks living normal middle class lives, going to work every day and raising kids, can only do so much to change the world.  They're no different than you and I.  We're too busy doing what we need to do to try to solve all of Roxbury's problems.  That actually shows exactly why Blacks do continue to suffer from stereotypes: even when they don't match the stereotypes they are labeled with them and also held responsible for changing them!  That's a pretty big burden.  It's as if you were Italian and were held responsible for changing the behaviour of the Mafia . . . or else stuck with the stereotype of being a criminal.  It's sort of a no-win situation. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    See the thing is though pro it doesn't have to be the middle class who has to change it. It should come from the celebrities and from the inner community itself.

    In the 90's and most of the 00's what image young lower class black kids clung to was the gangster rappers and kids latched on to that perception that's what they should be. Everyone wanted to be a thug in the 90's where I grew up. They wanted to be like Snoop, Ice, 50 cent, Ludicrous and the community idealized the rappers and the thug mentality of certain sports stars because they came from nothing to make millions while giving the finger to the white oppressors. Listen to how AP compared NFL players to slaves, that's what gets imbedded into their heads.

    The inner communities have to take their own responsibility and teach kids they those guys were lucky and the only true way to get out is to work hard. They have to take responsibility for their actions if they have a kid. Their own success has failed them as those who were successful, instead of making money off the stereotypes should have worked hard to remove them. Remember Family Matters and Cosby Show. We need more of that and less How High
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist : Ok that's fair enough. But, as far as the college goes when a vast majority of citizens in the country are of white ancestry then I would expect that they would have a high percentage in college as well. I don't think it's the white race that's keeping black kids out of college I actually think it's the black race itself. To hear me out on this is that many of my black friends went to college because the community I grew up it pushed hard for education and to have us make something of ourselves. I remember an old lady who would give us candy if we got A's on our report cards. It's all community and family driven whether a kid gets to college our not now a days. Not based on skin color. Even my black friends who go back to our old neighborhood say how much it's changed and they don't think they would have made it out if they grew up in the same conditions as what's happened to where I grew up. There are plenty of other cultures that have risen above cultural stereotypes and have done well for themselves. Percentage wise Muslim, Indians, Asian, and Africans (legal immigrants either just immigrated or 1st gen Americans) have all excelled and have high showings in the work place and schools compared to population percentage. So what is keeping multi-generation blacks and Hispanics behind? I don't think it's racism anymore, I think it's this us verses them and they are oppressing us mentality that some of them carry. It's funny the ones I work with who have become success have told me they never thought anyone was out to get them, that it was always up to them as far as they wanted to go. I'm sure at points they had to work harder to overcome stereotypes but they never complained and did what they needed to succeed. To me is all distills down to the community, culture, and family. Those with a strong up bringing succeed and those who are taught to blame others and see oppression and faults when there really might not be don't. I find that incredible sad and imo if there was less focus on race and racism in general and more focus on how any culture or race can improve itself from within that racism would eventually be reduced to the part where it's meaningless. But, allowing perception and looking for racism as a crutch only serves to strengthen the stereotypes further
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    PatsEng . . . one thing to consider is whether the community, culture, and family situation that exists in Black communities is itself the result of centuries of racism.  When normal opportunities are closed to you right from the beginning because of your skin colour, you maybe look for other ways of getting along in life.  

    And while there are some Blacks who maybe use racism as a crutch or an excuse, there are also lots and lots of Blacks who don't do that and who actually do succeed in quite ordinary--and even quite exceptional--ways.  To get back to football a little, look even at a lot of the football players we know and love.  Troy Brown, Willie McGinnist, Rodney Harrison . . . are those guys using race as a crutch?  Are they thugs?  Hardly . . . they've all gotten where they are because they've worked hard at it.  That's football and it's exceptional--but there are millions of ordinary Blacks in ordinary jobs doing exactly the same.  But a lot of Whites seem to think every Black person is a drug dealer or a rabble rouser like Al Sharpton.  That's just not reality. 
     


     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    But you misunderstand me, I'm not here because I believe that there are too many white kids in college and not enough minorities. I only put that across because of the 'quotas are keeping white kids out of colleges' comment that someone posted. My whole time on this forum has been about me trying to stretch across the point that there is a reason why it's more frowned upon when a caucasian makes a racist comment as opposed to another race. 


     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Re: Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]But you misunderstand me, I'm not here because I believe that there are too many white kids in college and not enough minorities. I only put that across because of the 'quotas are keeping white kids out of colleges' comment that someone posted. My whole time on this forum has been about me trying to stretch across the point that there is a reason why it's more frowned upon when a caucasian makes a racist comment as opposed to another race. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    I agree that it would affect black people more then white people just because even though the 50's and 60's were a couple of generations ago it's still on peoples minds and makes them more defensive. But, to me it shouldn't matter who made the comment it should either A) not be made to begin with or B) should be taken for what is was a joke. Both sides are to hypersensitive most times but to me it's like a ball rolling on a u shaped track. It will go from one extreme to the other until it eventually levels out. Right now Caucasian are seeing the back swing where it's wrong for us to say it but it's fine for them to say it back to us, and those of us never involved with racism to begin with see the mismatch and want it more balanced. Unfortunately it's going to swing back and forth from generation to generation. It's going to lessen every time but people like Sharpton who will develop black minds to distrust white people and inherently make white people distrustful that black people hate them all with hands out or the KKK who will make black people believe nothing has changed and make white people feel black people aren't human only serve to keep it going. As those old systems of thought and stereotypes will hopefully slowly wither and die I hope that we can finally forget about color divides and just be human for once.
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    Put straw in drink and stir, stir, stir, stir...
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    BTW I can't be racist. I'm Irish, I hate everyone equally lol

    I wonder if that would work in court?
     
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    Re: Are the Packers racist

    In Response to Are the Packers racist:
    [QUOTE]Teammate Greg Jennings and cornerbacks coach Joe Whitt say wide receiver Jordy Nelson is good for a white guy?Are these guys racist? Is it ok to be a racist as long as your not white? I will bet ESPN won't mention this. If a white player said he is smart for a black guy.That would be the lead story for ESPN all year.If it was a white coach that said something like that he would be fired.
    Posted by michaelf101[/QUOTE]

    Good God No!
     

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