Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    Reading all sorts of discussions on this forum and it appears what the Pats need to do this off season is not really that complicated.  From my read:

    Defense -- if the Pats can sign Talib and add a good pass rusher to the fold, the overall youth of the D and added experience of this past season bodes well.  If seems everyone is in agreement that Talib's added dimensions to the D late in the season made a difference and his loss in the AFCCG made an impact as to how the D played from the 2nd Q on.  Granted, you always want more and better pieces, but, are there some currently on the D you simply want to get rid of for the sake of change?

    Offense -- presuming a Welker return and a healthy Edelman, other than getting a top flight WR , one who can replace Lloyd or Brown, who can bring back the "Moss" days of a passing attack, how many more parts on the O need replacing?  Pats seemed to have found their backfield group given how the rushing attack this past season was much better than anticipated.  If both Gronk and Herny stay healthy the entire season through the playoffs, what could have been, right? The O - line needs health as it had its issues this past season.

    Again, how complicated are the needs of the Patriots?  Let the discussions begin!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    ahh bill.  You've been here long enough to know that every FA is going to peek interest on this board during this time of year.   But it may be enough to bring some kind of focus to the matter.  Let's face it.  We have very few draft picks to work with this year so the FA market for the Pats might be a little busy than past years.  One can only hope.  But there's that pesky salary cap again.  

    FA is going to say a lot about what happens to this team and I mean the Pats own FA as well as others.  Talib isn't going to come cheap.  There's going to be a lot of nail biting for the next couple of months.    

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ultpatfan. Show ultpatfan's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Reading all sorts of discussions on this forum and it appears what the Pats need to do this off season is not really that complicated.  From my read:

    Defense -- if the Pats can sign Talib and add a good pass rusher to the fold, the overall youth of the D and added experience of this past season bodes well.  If seems everyone is in agreement that Talib's added dimensions to the D late in the season made a difference and his loss in the AFCCG made an impact as to how the D played from the 2nd Q on.  Granted, you always want more and better pieces, but, are there some currently on the D you simply want to get rid of for the sake of change?

    Offense -- presuming a Welker return and a healthy Edelman, other than getting a top flight WR , one who can replace Lloyd or Brown, who can bring back the "Moss" days of a passing attack, how many more parts on the O need replacing?  Pats seemed to have found their backfield group given how the rushing attack this past season was much better than anticipated.  If both Gronk and Herny stay healthy the entire season through the playoffs, what could have been, right? The O - line needs health as it had its issues this past season.

    Again, how complicated are the needs of the Patriots?  Let the discussions begin!



    I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT FOR THE MOST PART.  I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE A CHANGE IN THE ATTITUDE OF THE TEAM (MORE KILLER INSTINCT;LEADERSHIP - A CHANGE OF APPROACH ON OFFENSE).  I THINK THE MORE SUCCESSFUL TEAMS ON OFFENSE ARE WR MINDED IN TERMS OF RUNNING PLAYS (GIANTS, RAVENS, AND OTHERS COME TO MIND).  WE DINK AND DUNK AND DO PREDICTABLE TE THROWS DOWN THE MIDDLE, WAY TOO MUCH. 

    WHY IS IT WE CAN LIGHT UP THE BOARD MOST WEEKENDS DURING THE SEASON, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE BIG GAMES, WE CAN'T SEEM TO SCORE A WHOLE LOT?  I LIKE OUR OFFENSE THOUGH THOUGH I THINK WE STILL NEED A TRUE BIG MAN -WR OPTION, YET WE NEED TO ALSO BE ABLE TO WIN BY SCORING LESS (SO WHAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM, DEFENSE?  RECEIVERS WITH BETTER HANDS?)  THIS TEAM SEEMS TO HAVE 2 PERSONALITIES, IT DRIVES ME CRAZY.  

     


     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from auchhhhhhhhhhh. Show auchhhhhhhhhhh's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    you are right... not quantic physics here...  

    JUST DO WHAT YOU DID LAST YEAR

    1.- Defensive Draft (at least 1st and 2nd) DT and CB   or DE and S

    2.- Add a Quality WR via FA (one with different skill sets to welker and lloyd)

    3.- Try to bring the best talent to pass rush (fanene, trevor scott)

    4.- Take care of your key FA (Vollmer, Talib and Welker)

    That, and a solid sophomore season out of Jones, Hightower and Dennard + the usual from Vince, Mayo, Spikes and DMC could be enough to have a good defense.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    Their needs aren't so complicated, but filling them may be because they don't have a lot of draft picks and the salary cap will limit what they can do in free agency.  Signing Talib, Welker, and Vollmer (if they decide to re-sign those three) could eat up a large percentage of their remaining cap room leaving little money for additional quality free agents.  As I see it, between draft and free agency, the Pats need five or six quality players at five positions:

    • Right tackle (Re-sign Vollmer?)
    • Corner (Re-sign Talib?)
    • WR (ideally need two--Welker maybe, plus another quality receiver)
    • DL (Tackle, though this may wait a year since Wilfork, Love, and Deaderick are all signed I believe)
    • Safety (unless Steve Gregory is the answer)

    Not as urgent maybe, but they could also improve quality at Center/Guard if the right player came along, at LB (need an OLB who can cover), and (lower down the list, I think) DE. 

    They also need to strengthen their back-ups at corner, safety, DL, and maybe tackle, LB, and WR (in addition, several of their current back-ups, like Arrington, Fletcher, Edelman, and Donald Thomas, are free agents, so they risk losing some players as they try to build quality depth). I believe they also need to sign Ballard who is an exclusive rights free agent or possibly get a decent third TE if they don't sign Ballard.

    RB and QB are probably the only positions that are okay as is, though even there they need to figure out whether re-signing Woodhead makes sense. 

    Needs aren't hard to figure out -- filling them, though, presents challenges when you only have four draft picks and there's a salary cap to worry about. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Their needs aren't so complicated, but filling them may be because they don't have a lot of draft picks and the salary cap will limit what they can do in free agency.  Signing Talib, Welker, and Vollmer (if they decide to re-sign those three) could eat up a large percentage of their remaining cap room leaving little money for additional quality free agents.  As I see it, between draft and free agency, the Pats need five or six quality players at five positions:

    • Right tackle (Re-sign Vollmer?)
    • Corner (Re-sign Talib?)
    • WR (ideally need two--Welker maybe, plus another quality receiver)
    • DL (Tackle, though this may wait a year since Wilfork, Love, and Deaderick are all signed I believe)
    • Safety (unless Steve Gregory is the answer)

    Not as urgent maybe, but they could also improve quality at Center/Guard if the right player came along, at LB (need an OLB who can cover), and (lower down the list, I think) DE. 

    They also need to strengthen their back-ups at corner, safety, DL, and maybe tackle, LB, and WR (in addition, several of their current back-ups, like Arrington and Donald Thomas, are free agents, so they risk losing some players as they try to build depth). I believe they also need to sign Ballard who is an exclusive rights free agent or possibly get a decent third TE if they don't sign Ballard.

    RB and QB are probably the only positions that are okay as is, though even there they need to figure out whether re-signing Woodhead makes sense. 

    Needs aren't hard to figure out -- filling them, though, presents challenges when you only have four draft picks and there's a salary cap to worry about. 




    The cap I'm not to worried about. They are actually one of the best teams setup for the cap going into the offseason given how many players on the roster are currently under contract and how much room they have. They don't have to release a single player can resign everyone and still have enough space add a couple of starting caliber players.

    The draft on the other hand, they don't have a lot of room to move or make a ton of picks. given that at least 1 of the first 3 won't provide anything (BB's average lately, which is still better than almost anyone in the league) you really are looking at adding 2 players to contribute this year. Thankfully I don't think the needs are that complicated this year. IMO you are really looking at a handful of players:

    Needs:

    Coverage SS/LB - Wilson could or couldn't develop into this player but with McCourty moving to FS all we really need is someone who can hit like a S version of Spikes but has enough ability to cover TE's and RB's

    CB - Resigning Talib should be a priority after that they still need a #3 slot CB if Dennard is going to be your #2. I'm not sure there are many who have faith in Arrington being the main backup to both Talib and Dennard nor do many have faith that Ras can last a season so that leaves us with a big question mark. If they bring in a 3rd CB pushing Ras and Arrington into more of nickel/dime roles I'd think we'd all be more comfortable

    Interior rush - Lets face it Nink was better then most thought and Jones is only going to get better. The true weak spot on the line is right next to Wilfork. Love and Deadrick are nice subs but nether could take advantage of playing next to one of the most dominant NT's in the game. We really need to upgrade the interior rush before looking for an edge rusher


    WR - we just need someone different then quick slot guys who can get yac. Some people think we need a deep threat but, imo, I see the need for a big body to fight at the line. To me if they can get downfield it's icing but games where the WR core disappear it's because Gronk is out and the DB's are physical at the line. I've seen many smaller deep threats get taken out by simply punching them at the line. I'd rather give up the speed to get a fighter who will hit back then have a large catch radius so Brady doesn't have to be exact, he can toss it up and let the WR get it. I'd be ok letting Welker go if we bring in a top flight WR who brings something different to the receiving core

    Wants:

    OL - adding depth but this years OL was pretty solid. You can always upgrade the RG or C position but resources are better allocated elsewhere. If something drops into their laps that's one thing but I'm just looking for depth at this point

    Exterior rush - As I said I'd want to upgrade the interior rush first but if an upgrade to Nink/Scott is around and reasonable then I'd take a hard look. But, the cost of upgrading that spot might be more then the overall benefit received compared to upgrading the need positions first

     

    Given the cap space and draft picks we should have enough of each to fill all of the above but we'll have to see.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    With the addition of the two DLs from the CFL and current roster and reserve at DL and OL (and resigning Vollmer) I am not sure how much they really need on the line. Lots of mocks are going DL, but I would be surprised unless a really talented faller drops into their lap.

    CB, Safety, and WR are the obvious top needs at the moment though some of that may be filled with resigning/FAs.

    The other area and PatsEng you touched on it - a speed linebacker. Love the current LB core, but they are generally weak in coverage and RBs, TEs and Slot/crossing receivers were a problem all year long. Hightower and Spikes are great going forward but liabilities in coverage.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Reading all sorts of discussions on this forum and it appears what the Pats need to do this off season is not really that complicated.  From my read:

    Defense -- if the Pats can sign Talib and add a good pass rusher to the fold, the overall youth of the D and added experience of this past season bodes well.  If seems everyone is in agreement that Talib's added dimensions to the D late in the season made a difference and his loss in the AFCCG made an impact as to how the D played from the 2nd Q on.  Granted, you always want more and better pieces, but, are there some currently on the D you simply want to get rid of for the sake of change?

    Offense -- presuming a Welker return and a healthy Edelman, other than getting a top flight WR , one who can replace Lloyd or Brown, who can bring back the "Moss" days of a passing attack, how many more parts on the O need replacing?  Pats seemed to have found their backfield group given how the rushing attack this past season was much better than anticipated.  If both Gronk and Herny stay healthy the entire season through the playoffs, what could have been, right? The O - line needs health as it had its issues this past season.

    Again, how complicated are the needs of the Patriots?  Let the discussions begin!



    i think our highest and next to highest and next to next to  highest (ie its not close) is elite pass rushing de. next big outside wr who can separate and catch, and a big, fast cb; then yeah safety is a big need (i suggested picking up in fa, along with pass rusher (i dont see much of a stud available at 29), better o line starter, cover lb., upgrade at dt. are these canadian kids any of that, hard to say at this point, maybe depth.

     

    consistent pass rush (with the front 4) is necessary.

    then having 2 big starting cbs talib, someone ot go with talib, dennard and dowling 3 and 4.

    on offense we've been stopped for years against better des not having a torrie smith or other (a big outside wr who can separate with reliable hands) . good offenses often have 2 good outside wrs. we have not had one since moss (lloyd cannot separate and falls on the ground every time he catches a pass). we need at least one. 

    a tough safety who can cover and stay healthy is needed (and i want it this offseason), but wihtout another real pass rusher (and cb and outside wr),we may look at another year with no brady sb win.

     

    what i suggested to do all this is safety and stud pass rusher in fa (maybe cover lb)

    keep talib, woody, edelman, vollmer if reasonable, may have to redo brady to keep welker (but i see outside wr as bigger need than slot, even an all pro-see all seasons with welker and no good outside threat, no sb

    big speedy cb, big outside wr, o line in draft

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to mia76's comment:

    With the addition of the two DLs from the CFL and current roster and reserve at DL and OL (and resigning Vollmer) I am not sure how much they really need on the line. Lots of mocks are going DL, but I would be surprised unless a really talented faller drops into their lap.

    CB, Safety, and WR are the obvious top needs at the moment though some of that may be filled with resigning/FAs.

    The other area and PatsEng you touched on it - a speed linebacker. Love the current LB core, but they are generally weak in coverage and RBs, TEs and Slot/crossing receivers were a problem all year long. Hightower and Spikes are great going forward but liabilities in coverage.



    ive had all the pieces you (and eng) list above for half the season. im not sure you can play as if you've got your dl needs met with players who havent even had an nfl practice.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Their needs aren't so complicated, but filling them may be because they don't have a lot of draft picks and the salary cap will limit what they can do in free agency.  Signing Talib, Welker, and Vollmer (if they decide to re-sign those three) could eat up a large percentage of their remaining cap room leaving little money for additional quality free agents.  As I see it, between draft and free agency, the Pats need five or six quality players at five positions:

    • Right tackle (Re-sign Vollmer?)
    • Corner (Re-sign Talib?)
    • WR (ideally need two--Welker maybe, plus another quality receiver)
    • DL (Tackle, though this may wait a year since Wilfork, Love, and Deaderick are all signed I believe)
    • Safety (unless Steve Gregory is the answer)

    Not as urgent maybe, but they could also improve quality at Center/Guard if the right player came along, at LB (need an OLB who can cover), and (lower down the list, I think) DE. 

    They also need to strengthen their back-ups at corner, safety, DL, and maybe tackle, LB, and WR (in addition, several of their current back-ups, like Arrington and Donald Thomas, are free agents, so they risk losing some players as they try to build depth). I believe they also need to sign Ballard who is an exclusive rights free agent or possibly get a decent third TE if they don't sign Ballard.

    RB and QB are probably the only positions that are okay as is, though even there they need to figure out whether re-signing Woodhead makes sense. 

    Needs aren't hard to figure out -- filling them, though, presents challenges when you only have four draft picks and there's a salary cap to worry about. 

     




    The cap I'm not to worried about. They are actually one of the best teams setup for the cap going into the offseason given how many players on the roster are currently under contract and how much room they have. They don't have to release a single player can resign everyone and still have enough space add a couple of starting caliber players.

     

    The draft on the other hand, they don't have a lot of room to move or make a ton of picks. given that at least 1 of the first 3 won't provide anything (BB's average lately, which is still better than almost anyone in the league) you really are looking at adding 2 players to contribute this year. Thankfully I don't think the needs are that complicated this year. IMO you are really looking at a handful of players:

    Needs:

    Coverage SS/LB - Wilson could or couldn't develop into this player but with McCourty moving to FS all we really need is someone who can hit like a S version of Spikes but has enough ability to cover TE's and RB's

    CB - Resigning Talib should be a priority after that they still need a #3 slot CB if Dennard is going to be your #2. I'm not sure there are many who have faith in Arrington being the main backup to both Talib and Dennard nor do many have faith that Ras can last a season so that leaves us with a big question mark. If they bring in a 3rd CB pushing Ras and Arrington into more of nickel/dime roles I'd think we'd all be more comfortable

    Interior rush - Lets face it Nink was better then most thought and Jones is only going to get better. The true weak spot on the line is right next to Wilfork. Love and Deadrick are nice subs but nether could take advantage of playing next to one of the most dominant NT's in the game. We really need to upgrade the interior rush before looking for an edge rusher


    WR - we just need someone different then quick slot guys who can get yac. Some people think we need a deep threat but, imo, I see the need for a big body to fight at the line. To me if they can get downfield it's icing but games where the WR core disappear it's because Gronk is out and the DB's are physical at the line. I've seen many smaller deep threats get taken out by simply punching them at the line. I'd rather give up the speed to get a fighter who will hit back then have a large catch radius so Brady doesn't have to be exact, he can toss it up and let the WR get it. I'd be ok letting Welker go if we bring in a top flight WR who brings something different to the receiving core

    Wants:

    OL - adding depth but this years OL was pretty solid. You can always upgrade the RG or C position but resources are better allocated elsewhere. If something drops into their laps that's one thing but I'm just looking for depth at this point

    Exterior rush - As I said I'd want to upgrade the interior rush first but if an upgrade to Nink/Scott is around and reasonable then I'd take a hard look. But, the cost of upgrading that spot might be more then the overall benefit received compared to upgrading the need positions first

     

    Given the cap space and draft picks we should have enough of each to fill all of the above but we'll have to see.



    as ive had it since the draft thread came out. but i moved dt down on my list late in year with the dearth of picks we have

    i think our highest and next to highest and next to next to  highest (ie its not close) is elite pass rushing de. next big outside wr who can separate and catch, and a big, fast cb; then yeah safety is a big need (i suggested picking up in fa, along with pass rusher (i dont see much of a stud available at 29), better o line starter, cover lb., upgrade at dt. are these canadian kids any of that, hard to say at this point, maybe depth.

     

    consistent pass rush (with the front 4) is necessary.

    then having 2 big starting cbs talib, someone ot go with talib, dennard and dowling 3 and 4.

    on offense we've been stopped for years against better des not having a torrie smith or other (a big outside wr who can separate with reliable hands) . good offenses often have 2 good outside wrs. we have not had one since moss (lloyd cannot separate and falls on the ground every time he catches a pass). we need at least one. 

    a tough safety who can cover and stay healthy is needed (and i want it this offseason), but wihtout another real pass rusher (and cb and outside wr),we may look at another year with no brady sb win.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    I think the needs are fairly clear, but the salary cap is going to limit how many top-quality free agents we can sign.  Even though we're ahead of many teams, the $18.6 million we are rumoured to have in cap space won't go far when top-quality players are counting $4-$8 million or so against the cap.  Welker and Talib alone could eat up well more than half our cap space if we were to sign both.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I think the needs are fairly clear, but the salary cap is going to limit how many top-quality free agents we can sign.  Even though we're ahead of many teams, the $18.6 million we are rumoured to have in cap space won't go far when top-quality players are counting $4-$8 million or so against the cap.  Welker and Talib alone could eat up well more than half our cap space if we were to sign both.  



    im willing to let welker go if we get a top outside wr.

    contracts can be reworked, numbers massaged, if they wan welker they can keep him too.

    ive seen/heard even the cap "hell" jets are "in" they can still do what they want within reason.

    and talib vs welker, i take talib.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    Nothwithstanding the slight differences in what should be emphasized there is little disagreement.

    I would say though - regarding the "attitude" or "style" of the Ptriots, where some of us call for a more "intense" or "physical" team - I think the players are all that. BUT - the schemes on O and D call for quick reads and adjustments rather than agressive attacking. Frankly I think the D needs to play a more aggressive scheme until they have players on the field that can generate pass rush without blitzing.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    With the addition of the two DLs from the CFL and current roster and reserve at DL and OL (and resigning Vollmer) I am not sure how much they really need on the line. Lots of mocks are going DL, but I would be surprised unless a really talented faller drops into their lap.

    CB, Safety, and WR are the obvious top needs at the moment though some of that may be filled with resigning/FAs.

    The other area and PatsEng you touched on it - a speed linebacker. Love the current LB core, but they are generally weak in coverage and RBs, TEs and Slot/crossing receivers were a problem all year long. Hightower and Spikes are great going forward but liabilities in coverage.

     



    ive had all the pieces you (and eng) list above for half the season. im not sure you can play as if you've got your dl needs met with players who havent even had an nfl practice.

     



    I am not 'counting' on the CFLers, but see them as representing draft picks in the 60-100 range so given the Pats being at the back of rounds they represent 2nd and 3rd/4th round picks. And they can be presumed to be slightly more mature having been 'professionals' already. I am also not as down on the current DL as many posters are. They were very good against the run and middle of the pack in pressure. I just think the back end coverage was such that WR/RB/TEs were  too often getting open early so QBs were able to get balls out before any pressure could develop. With Jones expected to improve (and be healthy) and the other needs on the team, spending capital on the DL seems like a luxury. I feel the same way about the OL (with Volmer being resigned.) With salary cap, you can't fill the whole wish list.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    The roster needs upgrades at WR, SS, CB, and it needs OL/DL depth.  The Pats will have to use their franchise tag and FA to keep the majority of this roster intact, which will be hard to do.  With a limited number of picks in the draft they will need to find a playor two who can fill a need immediately.  But with a few tweaks, I see no reason why they cannot be back in the hunt next year. 

    BB will have to be judicious about the tag and FA, but they should be able to add a few good players.    

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhbikerider. Show nhbikerider's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    If you don't have a pass rush there no reason for any quaterback/offense to feel threatend.  With that thought in mind, any decent quarterback will pick apart your secondary when given a few extra seconds.  So, do you solely blame the secondary for the defensive lapses?  My opinion is no.

    We can stop the run -- we have the beef up front, but not the penetration from the outside.

    Make the other teams offense think they a have less time to throw, and the scondary will have the leverage of not letting pass plays devleop to the full extent.   Maybe we'll change our opinion of our secondary from complete failue to a decent backfield -- not overwhelming, but decent. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    Secondary to this question..  do the needs pointed out in this discussion need to be filled with "big name" players?  Is simply filling the voids with better than average players when combined with experienced players on the team do the trick?  Seems that has been the Patriot way looking at the early SB years.  You have players who we knew, but, were not considered the "big names" at that time.  Even to this day, as much as we liked Bruschi, Harrison, Law, Seymour, et al, who among them are sure fire Hall of Famers?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    I think the needs are fairly clear, but the salary cap is going to limit how many top-quality free agents we can sign.  Even though we're ahead of many teams, the $18.6 million we are rumoured to have in cap space won't go far when top-quality players are counting $4-$8 million or so against the cap.  Welker and Talib alone could eat up well more than half our cap space if we were to sign both.  

     



    im willing to let welker go if we get a top outside wr.

     

    contracts can be reworked, numbers massaged, if they wan welker they can keep him too.

    ive seen/heard even the cap "hell" jets are "in" they can still do what they want within reason.

    and talib vs welker, i take talib.




    I'd agree . . . we can let Welker walk if we find someone good to replace him with, but unless we get lucky in the draft, a Welker replacement will cost a lot too.  Ideally, we need two decent WRs, as well as a CB (possibly Talib?) or maybe even two, and a RT (possibly Volmer?).  Top quality FAs (even our own) are going to be expensive at those positions.  Adding good FA talent at any other positions (safety, DL) will also be expensive. 

    We'll see what BB can pull off, but I think we need to brace ourselves for the likelihood that BB is going to bring in a number of middling FAs rather than try to sign more than one or two big-name guys.  Still, I hope he targets just a few top-quality guys because I think we need that to be more competitive in the playoffs.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Secondary to this question..  do the needs pointed out in this discussion need to be filled with "big name" players?  Is simply filling the voids with better than average players when combined with experienced players on the team do the trick?  Seems that has been the Patriot way looking at the early SB years.  You have players who we knew, but, were not considered the "big names" at that time.  Even to this day, as much as we liked Bruschi, Harrison, Law, Seymour, et al, who among them are sure fire Hall of Famers?



    I think quality matters, and better quality talent is what we really need to get over the hump in big playoff games.  That said, I also know that going for big names tends to create cap problems down the road and doesn't always pay off in the short term either.  BB has shown a preference for trying to get decent quality across the roster and to get the right mix of players rather than trying to get a few top talents--and his strategy has generally worked very well.  Still, we have been hurt in some key playoff games, when our secondary or our pass rush or our receiving corp just weren't good enough to challenge good opponents.   

    The new CBA makes going after high draft picks more cap friendly . ..  so maybe BB's approach in the draft will change a bit (it seems to have changed a bit last year).  Free agency, however, continues to be a challenge for the cap and I have trouble believing BB will change too much and get away from bringing in middling "value" FAs in favour of going for the big (expensive) names. We'll see though.  Maybe he'll decide that winning now is more important, even if it means some risk of being a weaker team down the road. 

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    On the quality question - there are always surprise FAs who for either personal or scheme reasons have lots of questions and can be had short term for very reasonable prices. Two years ago no one really wanted Anderson or Carter and they came to the Pats very cheaply and were a big reason for the SB run. That same year Gholston was also available for a very reasonable price and BB low balled and he resigned with SF. This past year Landry was available and might have been an interesting addition - certainly better than Fanene! All those players I think came in under 2M and outplayed their contracts. Like with the draft, FAs can be crap shoots. I think the pats have done a better job with the second tier (and lower) of FAs than they have with the bigger names.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    Issues are easy enough to fix. Take whoever's on the roster, including draftees and guys found on street corners (a la 2004 SB winning DB's), and make a 7 day road trip to OZ, the Emerald City, to load up on: heart, brains, and nerve. You know, like the early 2000's Champs had.

    Coaches will also be mandated to attend.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

     

    Secondary to this question..  do the needs pointed out in this discussion need to be filled with "big name" players?  Is simply filling the voids with better than average players when combined with experienced players on the team do the trick?  Seems that has been the Patriot way looking at the early SB years.  You have players who we knew, but, were not considered the "big names" at that time.  Even to this day, as much as we liked Bruschi, Harrison, Law, Seymour, et al, who among them are sure fire Hall of Famers?

     



    I think quality matters, and better quality talent is what we really need to get over the hump in big playoff games.  That said, I also know that going for big names tends to create cap problems down the road and doesn't always pay off in the short term either.  BB has shown a preference for trying to get decent quality across the roster and to get the right mix of players rather than trying to get a few top talents--and his strategy has generally worked very well.  Still, we have been hurt in some key playoff games, when our secondary or our pass rush or our receiving corp just weren't good enough to challenge good opponents.   

     

    The new CBA makes going after high draft picks more cap friendly . ..  so maybe BB's approach in the draft will change a bit (it seems to have changed a bit last year).  Free agency, however, continues to be a challenge for the cap and I have trouble believing BB will change too much and get away from bringing in middling "value" FAs in favour of going for the big (expensive) names. We'll see though.  Maybe he'll decide that winning now is more important, even if it means some risk of being a weaker team down the road. 

     



    "I have trouble believing BB will change too much and get away from bringing in middling "value" FAs in favour of going for the big (expensive) names. We'll see though.  Maybe he'll decide that winning now is more important, even if it means some risk of being a weaker team down the road. "

    sahre yor thoughts

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    Nothwithstanding the slight differences in what should be emphasized there is little disagreement.

    I would say though - regarding the "attitude" or "style" of the Ptriots, where some of us call for a more "intense" or "physical" team - I think the players are all that. BUT - the schemes on O and D call for quick reads and adjustments rather than agressive attacking. Frankly I think the D needs to play a more aggressive scheme until they have players on the field that can generate pass rush without blitzing.

     



    "Frankly I think the D needs to play a more aggressive scheme until they have players on the field that can generate pass rush without blitzing.

     "

    thats why i have legit pass rusher #1 on list in offseason

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I think the needs are fairly clear, but the salary cap is going to limit how many top-quality free agents we can sign.  Even though we're ahead of many teams, the $18.6 million we are rumoured to have in cap space won't go far when top-quality players are counting $4-$8 million or so against the cap.  Welker and Talib alone could eat up well more than half our cap space if we were to sign both.  



    ' but the salary cap is going to limit how many top-quality free agents we can sign.  Even though we're ahead of many teams, the $18.6 million we are rumoured to have in cap space won't go far when top-quality players are counting $4-$8 million or so against the cap.  Welker and Talib alone could eat up well more than half our cap space if we were to sign both.  "

    i hear this earlier i hwsa going wiht the much larger 35 mil reported.

     

    re:"I think the needs are fairly clear"

    maybe, but ive been pointing miine out long before they were apparent to everyone (when i first post and observation, most posts disagre strongly and put a lot of hate down. only much later when it becomes apparent to all, do i get "everyone knows that" or "that's apparent").

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Are the Pats needs for next season that COMPLICATED???

    In response to nhbikerider's comment:

    If you don't have a pass rush there no reason for any quaterback/offense to feel threatend.  With that thought in mind, any decent quarterback will pick apart your secondary when given a few extra seconds.  So, do you solely blame the secondary for the defensive lapses?  My opinion is no.

    We can stop the run -- we have the beef up front, but not the penetration from the outside.

    Make the other teams offense think they a have less time to throw, and the scondary will have the leverage of not letting pass plays devleop to the full extent.   Maybe we'll change our opinion of our secondary from complete failue to a decent backfield -- not overwhelming, but decent. 



    f you don't have a pass rush there no reason for any quaterback/offense to feel threatend.

    yup

    flacco all day to make a lunch

    brady nervous and under pressure

     
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