Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 4:00 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : I agree with you here Texas. I don't see much sense in signing WW to a long term deal. Wrong side of 30 and takes lots of punishment in our pass heavy offense. It will be a sad day when he is gone but it is what it is.
Posted by TrueChamp
They might sign him to a long-term deal (three years or more) just to defer the salary cap hit for a few years. If they ended up cutting him before the deal was done, they'd take a cap hit in the year they cut him--but that might be better than taking a big cap hit in the next two years. If they didn't cut him, the cap hit for his signing bonus would be spread over the length of the deal, up to a maximum of five years.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 4:31 PM EDT
- Faucetman
- Posts: 3479
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : faucet, not sure what part of this is tex's? but when i proposed it, the only response was youre crazy and crickets :)
Posted by bredbru
Well, maybe it was a post by TexasPat that I saw first. It's a great idea, whoever's idea it was. I was clearly the first to suggest giving up 31 for Wallace. I started that post the day after the SB, others have since copied it, as long as credit is going around:).
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 4:36 PM EDT
- MichFan
- Posts: 456
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CJ's deal should have no affect on Welker. The Lions absoultely could not lose CJ. Stafford is coming along as a QB but I'd say if Brady was throw to CJ his numbers would be off the charts.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 4:38 PM EDT
- bredbru
- Posts: 12461
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : Well, maybe it was a post by TexasPat that I saw first. It's a great idea, whoever's idea it was. I was clearly the first to suggest giving up 31 for Wallace. I started that post the day after the SB, others have since copied it, as long as credit is going around:).
Posted by Faucetman
yeah i meant the welker portion (i was suggestign using the pick(s) in the draft.
i was not on and still not high on wallace (for 50 million and a 1)
i wont complain if we do, but like our shot to double up on wrs in the draft.
i know with bb's track record wed be a lot safer getting wallace. but maybe hell pull a hern/gronk without the risks re wrs this year and draft 2 stars.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 4:43 PM EDT
- msteven
- Posts: 322
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I say live with the franchise tag this year. Draft a couple of young receivers and develop a replacement. Welker has had a knee surgery. He crosses over the middle and takes a pounding. I would say that he probably has one good year left in him. He will never last to complete a 3 year contract.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 4:48 PM EDT
My two cents
Brady and Wes are great friends.
Wes is the perfect Patriot next to Brady despite the one foot slip.
Wes gets a 3 yr deal.
Wes retires in 2/3 years and Brady in 4.
Draft a slot guy and prep him
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 6:15 PM EDT
- teegee
- Posts: 307
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : They offered him 2 years at $16MM last season and he turned it down. I could see a situation where the Pats sit Welker down and tell him they will tag him twice and he will earn $20.9MM. Or they can tag him 3 times and he'll earn $34.58MM. Or they can agree on a 3 year deal for $30MM where he gets most of it up front as a signing bonus. But $10MM a year would be considered a slap in the face. I don't know how this is going to end good. That's why I think a tag and trade could be in the works. The Pats would probably take a 2nd this year and 1st next year for him right now.
Posted by Faucetman
I say this with utmost respect: what are they putting into your California water? Welker should be a happy with $10mm for 3 years, and no one is going to pay a 2nd and a 1st to pry him away.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 6:42 PM EDT
- TrueChamp
- Posts: 4984
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
My two cents Brady and Wes are great friends. Wes is the perfect Patriot next to Brady despite the one foot slip. Wes gets a 3 yr deal. Wes retires in 2/3 years and Brady in 4. Draft a slot guy and prep him
Posted by JimfromFlorida
Brady and Branch were great friends as well, I don't think that has much to do with it. Not on this team.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 6:44 PM EDT
- TrueChamp
- Posts: 4984
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- Last: 5/16/2013
In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : They might sign him to a long-term deal (three years or more) just to defer the salary cap hit for a few years. If they ended up cutting him before the deal was done, they'd take a cap hit in the year they cut him--but that might be better than taking a big cap hit in the next two years. If they didn't cut him, the cap hit for his signing bonus would be spread over the length of the deal, up to a maximum of five years.
Posted by prolate0spheroid
Yes but the amount of money that he is rightfully entitled to(imo) would be greater then what would be worth it for us....again imo.
If WW wants to he can be in the D-Jax/V-Jax ball park, or more.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 6:45 PM EDT
- bredbru
- Posts: 12461
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : I say this with utmost respect: what are they putting into your California water? Welker should be a happy with $10mm for 3 years, and no one is going to pay a 2nd and a 1st to pry him away.
Posted by teegee
we can take whatever wed like for him (bargaining between us and the other team).
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 7:28 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : Yes but the amount of money that he is rightfully entitled to(imo) would be greater then what would be worth it for us....again imo. If WW wants to he can be in the D-Jax/V-Jax ball park, or more.
Posted by TrueChamp
You think so Champ? You may be right--I really don't know--but I suspect other teams are going to discount him quite a bit as a "system" kind of guy . . . I'd be surprised if anyone offered him a big, long-term deal--but again, I could be completely wrong here.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 9:37 PM EDT
- TrueChamp
- Posts: 4984
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : You think so Champ? You may be right--I really don't know--but I suspect other teams are going to discount him quite a bit as a "system" kind of guy . . . I'd be surprised if anyone offered him a big, long-term deal--but again, I could be completely wrong here.
Posted by prolate0spheroid
I think so. 130 receptions, 8 plus tds a year with 2 different QB's. How about WW to the Broncos after they sign Peyton. WW to Buffalo, the Jets(ouch) Tenn(with PM), Chiefs(Cassel to WW). Lot of takers on a 120+ catch guy with phenomenal work ethic.
I think he will play this year in our pass heavy offense and most likely be gone next year, unless we franchise him again :0
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 10:51 PM EDT
- Army2LT
- Posts: 415
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I wonder what WW's value is at? At least a 1st rounder right? I guess now would be the time to trade him if he's not going to sign long term.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 11:06 PM EDT
- TexasPat
- Posts: 2360
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
I wonder what WW's value is at? At least a 1st rounder right? I guess now would be the time to trade him if he's not going to sign long term.
Posted by Army2LT
I doubt that any team would trade a first round pick to get the soon to be 31 year old Wes...and be willing to spend huge dollars to sign him. A high second rounder is the best the Pats could hope for. Though, because of his age, it's unlikely...but Wes could choose to hold out.
No offense to Wes, but he has Tom Brady, and happens to fit the Pats' system like a glove. He likely won't be as productive elsewhere.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/16/2012 11:46 PM EDT
- Paul_K
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Welker's franchise player salary is $9.4 million for 2012. If he's healthy for 2013, the Patriots can give him a 20% raise and franchise him once more for $11.3 million. He's worth that much for a 1 year contract when healthy.
OR,
Welker's agent can look at this potential double franchise scenario and can sign a longer-term deal with the Krafts.
Megatron is a big 26 year old guy being tackled on his shoestrings by puny cornerbacks. Welker is a little tiny guy approaching his 31st birthday this May, being tackled in the flats by big fat linebackers, and that kind of tackling really hurts. Megatron's 2015 and 2016 seasons are worth more money than Welker's 2015 and 2016 seasons because Welker is more likely to be pancake-shaped by then.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/17/2012 12:04 AM EDT
- Faucetman
- Posts: 3479
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : I doubt that any team would trade a first round pick to get the soon to be 31 year old Wes...and be willing to spend huge dollars to sign him. A high second rounder is the best the Pats could hope for. Though, because of his age, it's unlikely...but Wes could choose to hold out. No offense to Wes, but he has Tom Brady, and happens to fit the Pats' system like a glove. He likely won't be as productive elsewhere.
Posted by TexasPat
ah man, this is where I disagree. Plenty of teams would give their left nut for Welker. I think a 1st and 2nd is fair value for a guy that has the most catches and yards over the past 5 years. He is just turning 31. He isn't 35.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/17/2012 12:36 AM EDT
- TexasPat
- Posts: 2360
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : ah man, this is where I disagree. Plenty of teams would give their left nut for Welker. I think a 1st and 2nd is fair value for a guy that has the most catches and yards over the past 5 years. He is just turning 31. He isn't 35.
Posted by Faucetman
Please name the teams that you think would pay huge dollars for Welker...as well as parting with a #1 and a #2.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/17/2012 5:30 AM EDT
- bredbru
- Posts: 12461
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id take a 1 or a 2. 9.4 is too much. invest it elsewhere.
there are a zillion good wr's in this draft.
esp if we get lloyd.
rookie slot guy, hern, edelman, even branch.
lloyd on the outside
we do need a legit blockign and pass catching "2nd" tight end.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/17/2012 11:57 AM EDT
- Faucetman
- Posts: 3479
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : Please name the teams that you think would pay huge dollars for Welker...as well as parting with a #1 and a #2.
Posted by TexasPat
Let's start with St. Louis. The "rumor" is Amendola and the 2nd round pick they just acquired from WAS as part of the RGIII trade for Welker. We then use pick 31 and the money we would have spent on Welker to pry Wallace away from PIT.
Let's then look at Denver, if they get Manning or not. They have money to burn and are losing Eddie Royal.
We could then look at the Bengals who have extra picks, money to burn and who need a slot receiver. Ditto the Browns.
Now we are hearing Lloyd could be added today. Imagine Lloyd and Wallace in even with Welker out. Edelman can hold down the slot and give up 50 balls there as more will be going down the field and outside the numbers.
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?
posted at 3/17/2012 12:26 PM EDT
- TexasPat
- Posts: 2360
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In Response to
Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered?:
In Response to Re: Are Welker's Days in NE numbered? : Let's start with St. Louis. The "rumor" is Amendola and the 2nd round pick they just acquired from WAS as part of the RGIII trade for Welker. We then use pick 31 and the money we would have spent on Welker to pry Wallace away from PIT.
RESPONSE: Okay...but the Rams aren't giving up a one (6th overall) and a two. But, they would have two high twos...Washington's and their own, to dangle. They would be the 33rd and 38th overall picks. So, how 'bout Amendola and the 38th overall pick for Wes and the 63rd overall pick? Would you demand the 33rd instead? The top pick in round two, Day 2 is very valuable...so, the Rams likely would be reluctant to part with it.
Let's then look at Denver, if they get Manning or not. They have money to burn and are losing Eddie Royal.
RESPONSE: Do you really think that the Broncos would cough up their one and two for Wes? Even if there were so willing, would the Pats make such a trade with the Peyton Manning led Broncos? I would think that they would rather trade Wes to the NFC.
We could then look at the Bengals who have extra picks, money to burn and who need a slot receiver.
RESPONSE: I'd do the deal with the Bengals in a NY minute.
Ditto the Browns.
RESPONSE: I'd do the deal with Cleveland in a half of a NY minute, for their 22nd overall pick, and their high second rounder. That would be a steal for the Patriots. But, would Wes sign to play for Cleveland? Highly doubtful.
Now we are hearing Lloyd could be added today. Imagine Lloyd and Wallace in even with Welker out. Edelman can hold down the slot and give up 50 balls there as more will be going down the field and outside the numbers.
RESPONSE: Of course, Welker must first sign his franchise tag tender before the Pats could move him.
Posted by Faucetman
Interesting stuff, Faucetman. I hope you're right!
